Prometheus
Poll
 | 7 votes (31.81%) | ||
| | 4 votes (18.18%) | ||
| | 1 vote (4.54%) | ||
| | 7 votes (31.81%) | ||
| | 3 votes (13.63%) |
22 members have voted
June 22nd, 2012 at 5:08:20 PM
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There has already been some discussion of Promethus in the Favorite Sci Fi Movie thread. What brings this thread on is I've been discussing the movie with my brother and we disagree on a number of things that were not exactly clear in the movie.
A lot of it seems to boil down to what the heck was the opening scene all about. In particular, which planet does it take place on, why did the Engineer take the blaze ooze, and what would have happened as a result? The question for the poll is which planet did it take place on? Here are a couple theories to get the discussion going.
Wizard's theory: The opening took place on the Engineer's planet (namely the one where the body of the movie took place). Here they were engineering with alien life forms, both human and the kind that became the alien in the Alien movies. The Engineer seen in the movie opening had some motive to sabotage the experiment so he deliberately took the black ooze by a waterfall, knowing he would fall in, contaminate the water supply, leading to near wipe of the Engineers on the Engineer planet (as depicted in the holograms). I don't know his motive, but I assume he was a conscientious objector, and he was trying to prevent the conquering of earth. I'm assume that humans were already on earth at the time.
Wizard's brother's theory: The opening took place on earth. The Engineer was undergoing a genetic transformation to become human. His tattered DNA is seen in the water after he falls in, showing that his body was transforming at a genetic level. His motive is unclear.
So, please vote for which planet you believe the opening took place on and then argue your position. The "home planet" is the one never seen in the movie, but discussed towards the end.
A lot of it seems to boil down to what the heck was the opening scene all about. In particular, which planet does it take place on, why did the Engineer take the blaze ooze, and what would have happened as a result? The question for the poll is which planet did it take place on? Here are a couple theories to get the discussion going.
Wizard's theory: The opening took place on the Engineer's planet (namely the one where the body of the movie took place). Here they were engineering with alien life forms, both human and the kind that became the alien in the Alien movies. The Engineer seen in the movie opening had some motive to sabotage the experiment so he deliberately took the black ooze by a waterfall, knowing he would fall in, contaminate the water supply, leading to near wipe of the Engineers on the Engineer planet (as depicted in the holograms). I don't know his motive, but I assume he was a conscientious objector, and he was trying to prevent the conquering of earth. I'm assume that humans were already on earth at the time.
Wizard's brother's theory: The opening took place on earth. The Engineer was undergoing a genetic transformation to become human. His tattered DNA is seen in the water after he falls in, showing that his body was transforming at a genetic level. His motive is unclear.
So, please vote for which planet you believe the opening took place on and then argue your position. The "home planet" is the one never seen in the movie, but discussed towards the end.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 22nd, 2012 at 5:16:51 PM
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I haven't seen the movie yet, but in SF there are some conventions. When the location is important yet remains unnamed, it's Earth. See the original "Planet of the Apes," and all too many shorts by Asimov, Clarke and others from the Golden Age of pulp magazine SF.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
June 22nd, 2012 at 8:39:12 PM
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When asked if the planet depicted in the opening scene is Earth, he answered that it was irrelevant. The implication is that the movie was just showing the process, and that it involved the willing sacrifice of the creator's life.
I think we can rule out that it is the Engineer's birthplace, because they did not create themselves (presumably). Ridley Scott's statement does not rule out or confirm either the Wizard's or his brother's hypothesis.
In earlier versions of Prometheus, the Engineers sent an ambassador figure (Jesus) to Earth to correct the wrongs that mankind was doing. And, what did mankind do to Jesus? They killed him. This angered the Engineers and caused them to make a plan of destruction for mankind. The writers altered this explicit version of the script in favor of the final, more obscure script.
I hate to say that almost any interpretation can fit the movie. One questioner asked the question, Why was David so careful to get Holloway's permission to put the black slime in his drink? Why was the element of choice so important? Did it relate to the choice made by the engineer at the beginning of the movie? Is it real choice if you don't know what you are consenting to?
I wonder if Ridley Scott intends for this to be a trilogy or a double movie? I am guessing trilogy.
I think we can rule out that it is the Engineer's birthplace, because they did not create themselves (presumably). Ridley Scott's statement does not rule out or confirm either the Wizard's or his brother's hypothesis.
In earlier versions of Prometheus, the Engineers sent an ambassador figure (Jesus) to Earth to correct the wrongs that mankind was doing. And, what did mankind do to Jesus? They killed him. This angered the Engineers and caused them to make a plan of destruction for mankind. The writers altered this explicit version of the script in favor of the final, more obscure script.
I hate to say that almost any interpretation can fit the movie. One questioner asked the question, Why was David so careful to get Holloway's permission to put the black slime in his drink? Why was the element of choice so important? Did it relate to the choice made by the engineer at the beginning of the movie? Is it real choice if you don't know what you are consenting to?
I wonder if Ridley Scott intends for this to be a trilogy or a double movie? I am guessing trilogy.
June 22nd, 2012 at 8:49:10 PM
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I voted for John Galt because the Jerry Logan option is missing.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 22nd, 2012 at 8:50:48 PM
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The more time passes since I've seen the movie, the more my appreciation of it grows. I think Prometheus will go down like other science fiction movies like 2001 that were ridiculed when it first came out, but today is considered a classic in the genre, and we still argue about that movie 40 years later.
Let me stay that some movies have to be seen in a theater to truly be able to say you've seen the movie -- and Prometheus is one of them. I urge anyone with an interest in science fiction to not let this one slip through your fingers. I know not everybody is in love with the movie, but I'm sure that 2001 got laughed at even more after it came out. I would like to see it again, if any WoV members have the interest.
That is interesting about the Jesus story line. If I had 20 million dollars I would make my own movie based on that idea. Or I can just call Angela and Dan and do my own $1,000 version.
Trivia time: The actress who plays Elizabeth is the same one who starred in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I hope that will appease those who say she was no Ripley.
Let me stay that some movies have to be seen in a theater to truly be able to say you've seen the movie -- and Prometheus is one of them. I urge anyone with an interest in science fiction to not let this one slip through your fingers. I know not everybody is in love with the movie, but I'm sure that 2001 got laughed at even more after it came out. I would like to see it again, if any WoV members have the interest.
That is interesting about the Jesus story line. If I had 20 million dollars I would make my own movie based on that idea. Or I can just call Angela and Dan and do my own $1,000 version.
Trivia time: The actress who plays Elizabeth is the same one who starred in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I hope that will appease those who say she was no Ripley.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 22nd, 2012 at 9:02:19 PM
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Quote: Wizardbut I'm sure that 2001 got laughed at even more after it came out. .
I'm not sure where it was laughed at. I was 19 in 1968
and it was a huge success here. It was at the big screen
theatre in town for months, everybody saw it. It was the
highest grossing movie of 1968. The scenes in space
where they played Blue Danube made the hairs on
your arms stand up. It was in at the big drive in theatre too,
those were the days when drive in's played hit movies and
not the crap they showed 15 years later.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
June 22nd, 2012 at 9:10:40 PM
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it eventually became the highest grossing film made in 68, but not until after it was re-released in 74, 77, and 80.
it made about 15M in 68 in the US and eventually went on to gross 60M in US and 190M worldwide.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use,
which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
-HAL 9000
it made about 15M in 68 in the US and eventually went on to gross 60M in US and 190M worldwide.
I am putting myself to the fullest possible use,
which is all I think that any conscious entity can ever hope to do.
-HAL 9000
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief.
- Proverb.
June 22nd, 2012 at 9:21:46 PM
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Quote: WizardThat is interesting about the Jesus story line. If I had 20 million dollars I would make my own movie based on that idea. Or I can just call Angela and Dan and do my own $1,000 version.
Trivia time: The actress who plays Elizabeth is the same one who starred in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I hope that will appease those who say she was no Ripley.
The movie is unusual in that it grows more interesting the longer you think about it. As a final series, the concept should be fascinating.
The angry Jesus made an appearance in a very unsubtle Demi Moore movie called "The Seventh Sign" about 25 years ago.
I liked Noomi Rapace, and her blend of terror and religious fervor. I was glad that she didn't morph into another Ripley. It makes me want to watch the Swedish versions of the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo.
Just a comment on the business aspect of the movie. Ridley Scott is almost always admired critically, but he has made some big budget spectacular financial failures in the past (Robin Hood, 1492, Legend, Kingdom of Heaven) . Prometheus had a production budget of $130 million. While that budget is fairly common for a at least a dozen PG-13 movies every year, the only R rated movies ever made with that kind of budget were the sequels to The Matrix and The Terminator. The 13-17 year old kids are a big part of the audience for movie tickets.
The finance people must have bought into the idea that Ridley Scott could build this into a series which would attract a deeply devoted (if not massive) audience.
R Rated Budgets for this year in $millions
$42 21 Jump Street
$85 Safe House
$12 Act of Valor
$25 Contraband
$70 Underworld Awakening
$58 The Dictator
$50 American Reunion
$1 The Devil Inside
$25 The Grey
June 23rd, 2012 at 1:00:37 AM
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Hmmmmm, I assumed the Engineer in the beginning of this movie was one of many of his species to seed the universe with their DNA, much like an Earthly fertility doctor might impregnate dozens of unsuspecting women with his sperm and seed Earth with his own progeny. I thought this theory was mentioned...that many planets have this DNA, but Earth evolved over 100 million years differently from other planets who also received the same DNA. I thought it odd though that this Engineer sacrificed himself to the cause, and wondered if all of them did the same. I assumed this took place 500 million years ago before any life on Earth had gained a foothold. So, opening scene,.... then flash-forward 500 million years for the rest of the movie where the scientists are trying to find our creators. No idea why I thought this.
I knew that. And I still say Elizabeth is no Ripley.
Quote: Wizard
Trivia time: The actress who plays Elizabeth is the same one who starred in the Girl with the Dragon Tattoo. I hope that will appease those who say she was no Ripley.
I knew that. And I still say Elizabeth is no Ripley.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
June 23rd, 2012 at 6:49:27 AM
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Quote: zippyboyI knew that. And I still say Elizabeth is no Ripley.
She is not supposed to be Ripley.
Anyway, I stumbled upon a lot of discussion on the mysteries of the movie at imdb.com. Suffice it to say that my theory is not in the mainstream.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 23rd, 2012 at 7:05:07 AM
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Quote: pacomartinWhen asked if the planet depicted in the opening scene is Earth, he answered that it was irrelevant. The implication is that the movie was just showing the process, and that it involved the willing sacrifice of the creator's life.
I think we can rule out that it is the Engineer's birthplace, because they did not create themselves (presumably). Ridley Scott's statement does not rule out or confirm either the Wizard's or his brother's hypothesis.
In earlier versions of Prometheus, the Engineers sent an ambassador figure (Jesus) to Earth to correct the wrongs that mankind was doing. And, what did mankind do to Jesus? They killed him. This angered the Engineers and caused them to make a plan of destruction for mankind. The writers altered this explicit version of the script in favor of the final, more obscure script.
I hate to say that almost any interpretation can fit the movie. One questioner asked the question, Why was David so careful to get Holloway's permission to put the black slime in his drink? Why was the element of choice so important? Did it relate to the choice made by the engineer at the beginning of the movie? Is it real choice if you don't know what you are consenting to?
I wonder if Ridley Scott intends for this to be a trilogy or a double movie? I am guessing trilogy.
i saw the movie and dont remember David asking for permission to put that black goo in his drink.
nor do i remember the scene as david being so careful to get Holloways's permission.
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
June 23rd, 2012 at 7:17:57 AM
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Quote: zippyboyHmmmmm, I assumed the Engineer in the beginning of this movie was one of many of his species to seed the universe with their DNA
The idea that Adam and Eve were from outer space, and the idea that the lowest level of life on Earth came from outer space have both been presented in books and movies before now.
To the best of my knowledge, Prometheus is the first movie to have the concept that higher order intelligent beings sacrificed their lives to create life. It plays to religious ideas of divine creation, and self sacrifice, while at the same time being in synch with evolutionary theory. But the critical issue in evolution is always the mechanism of the initial jump start from inanimate objects to structures which have negative entropy.
It's also not clear if the Engineer's mean to destroy Earth. The Space Jockey may be a Lucifer type being, the leader of a group of angels who grow jealous of the power of the engineers and seek to destroy their creation.
June 23rd, 2012 at 8:04:34 AM
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I try not to be analytical about movies. They are just for entertainment and I try to enjoy them.
June 23rd, 2012 at 8:35:18 AM
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Quote: 100xOddsi saw the movie and dont remember David asking for permission to put that black goo in his drink.
nor do i remember the scene as david being so careful to get Holloways's permission.
I interpreted David as following orders when he put the goo in the drink. I think there was a line "try harder," which I interpreted to mean to do what it took to get at answers, including what the black goo did. Peter may have thought it was the fountain of youth, but wanted to try it on a human guinea pig first.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 23rd, 2012 at 9:02:01 AM
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Quote: 100xOddsi saw the movie and dont remember David asking for permission to put that black goo in his drink.
nor do i remember the scene as david being so careful to get Holloways's permission.
Perhaps "permission" is not the correct word. David asks "Hollaway" how far he would go to get his answers. When Holloway answers that he would do anything, David accepts that as his cue to spike the drink. Something in David's programming seems to require getting some kind of ethical acknowledgement from Hollaway before he can do the experiment. The importance of "choice and free will" seems to run through the script.
The problem with Peter Weyland as the mastermind is his easy demise. Perhaps part of his consciousness is merged with the android brain. It may explain the CEO's acknowledgement of David as "the closest thing he will have to a son".
The "unexpected choice" was a big part of the finish of Blade Runner. When the android "Roy Batty" played by Rutger Hauer makes the decision to rescue Harrison Ford's character there is no definitive explanation as to his motives, only theories.
June 23rd, 2012 at 9:25:34 AM
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Quote: Wizard
Anyway, I stumbled upon a lot of discussion on the mysteries of the movie at imdb.com.
That was a fascinating read. I hadn't even considered the possibility of the Theron character being an android. Or that Elizabeth's warning at the end is the same one decrypted by Ripley in Alien. Guess I need to see it again. That's the impact of a good movie; people are still thinking and writing about it weeks after seeing it.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
June 23rd, 2012 at 12:43:58 PM
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Quote: zippyboyQuote: Wizard
Anyway, I stumbled upon a lot of discussion on the mysteries of the movie at imdb.com.
That was a fascinating read. I hadn't even considered the possibility of the Theron character being an android. Or that Elizabeth's warning at the end is the same one decrypted by Ripley in Alien. Guess I need to see it again. That's the impact of a good movie; people are still thinking and writing about it weeks after seeing it.
what was the warning?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice).
Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
June 24th, 2012 at 9:06:17 PM
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Quote: 100xOddswhat was the warning?
I really need a second viewing, but as I recall Elizabeth broadcast a warning on the planet most of the movie took place on for humans to stay away from it. The movie in Alien/Aliens was a different planet, so I think the warning referred to in that movie had nothing to do with it.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 24th, 2012 at 10:38:51 PM
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Quote: WizardI really need a second viewing, but as I recall Elizabeth broadcast a warning on the planet most of the movie took place on for humans to stay away from it. The movie in Alien/Aliens was a different planet, so I think the warning referred to in that movie had nothing to do with it.
I have to agree with the Wizard.
Why would the warning Ripley picks up be in some unintelligible signal instead of just English if it was just left by another person? That part doesn't make much sense to me.
I forgot that Ripley was the one in charge of quarantine in the original movie.
Ripley dialogue in Alien
- Lucky us.
- That's not our system.
- This is commercial vessel Nostromo.Registration number 180246.Do you read me. Over.
- Nothing.
- It's not our system.
- (voice over) Report to the mess.
- Turbulence.
-
We're down.
- Engine room, what happened.
- I don't see anything. We've still got pressure.
- Is that it.
- Get started on 4 panel. I'll be down in five minutes.
- Fifteen to twenty hours...
-
Working on it.
. - Yeah.
- You know the answer to that.
- Don't worry, you'll both get what's coming to you.
-
You're guaranteed by law that you'll get a share... Now both of you knock it off and get back to work.
. - You ought to be able to handle the rest.
-
If you run into trouble, I'll be on the bridge.
. - (voice over)How's it going.
- Have you tried putting the transmission through ECIU.
-
I'll give it a shot.
. - Ash, tell Dallas Mother speculates that the noise is some kind of warning.
- I'm going out after them.
-
I still think we should go after them.
. - How many.
- Dallas, Lambert. Can you read me.
- (voice over) Okay.
- Right here.
- What happened to Kane. I need a clear definition.
- If we let it in, the ship could be infected.
- We've already broken every rule or quarantine.
- If we bring an organism on board, we won't have a single layer of defense left.
- I can't. If you were in my position you'd do the same.
- (voice over)I read you. The answer is negative.
- Even if it's against the law.
- Let's call it settled.
-
Somebody fill me in.
. - It doesn't make sense. It paralyzes him, puts him into a coma, then keeps him alive.
- What's happening.
- What about Kane.
- What's the stain on his lungs.
- (voice over) What's happening.
- I've got the toughest job on this ship...
- I have to listen to your bullshit.
-
(voice over)I'll get off your back when 12 module is fixed.
. - Anything new.
- What about the Creature.
- Plenty. What's it mean.
- Is that why you let it in.
- While Dallas and Kane are off the ship, I'm Senior Officer.
- You also forgot the science division's basic quarantine law.
- You just broke it.
- By breaking quarantine procedure you risk everybody's life.
-
This is your official position as a science officer. Not exactly out of the manual.
. - The door is closed. It must still be in there.
-
Yeah, I remember. We can't grab it. We can't kill it...
. - Yeah.
- Where's its mouth.
- Let's get rid of it.
- That thing bled acid. God knows what it'll do when it's dead.
- What about Kane.
-
I need some coffee.
. - How could you leave that kind of decision to him.
- How does that happen.
- Since when is that standard procedure.
- Did you ship out with Ash before.
- I don't trust him.
- They're pretty much finished now.
- There are still some thing left to do.
- We're blind on B and C decks.Reserve power systems blown...
-
Is that a good idea.
. - Lock tractor beams.
- Retract leading struts.
-
(into speaker) Everything holding together down there.
. - Whenever he says anything you say 'right'. You know that, Brett.
- What do you think, Parker. Your staff just follows you around and says 'right'. Like a regular parrot.
-
Yeah. And so will we.
. - Christ.
- What's the last thing you can remember.
- We're on our way home.
- What's wrong.
- That means we've got another one.
- We can't go into hypersleep with that thing running loose. We'd be sitting ducks in the freezers. We have to kill it first.
- We have to catch it and eject it from the ship.
-
First we have to find it.
. - I've checked on the supplies.For about a week we can stay out of hypersleep.
- All by yourselves.
- There's another problem. How do we find it. There's no visual communication on B and C decks. All the screens are out.
-
Trap it somehow.
. - I thought I'd find you here.
- We've got an hour...Look I need some relief.
- Let me tell you something. You keep staring out there long enough, they'll be peeling you off the wall.
- I'm tired of talking.
-
Give it a try anyway.
. - What's it key on.
- Nothing.
- Hold it. I've got something.
- Machine's screwed up. I can't tell. Needle's spinning all over the dial.
- No, just confused. It's coming from below us.
- Okay.
- Back this way.
- I thought you fixed 12 module.
- Wait.
- It's within five meters.
- God damn it...hold it.
-
Go get it. We'll go on.
. - Nothing here.
- No. At its present size it's holding enough acid to tear a hole in this ship as big as this room.
- The only plan that's going to work is the same one we had before. Drive it into an air lock and blow it out into space.
- The science department should be able to help...
- Curious isn't it...That the Alien is an encephlepod...
- It's curious because lower species can't adapt as quickly as higher ones. And this one's doing very well. A real survivor. Might even have as good a chance as we do.
-
All right. What about the temperature. What happens if we change it.
. - That's what worries me.
- We didn't get him.
-
I'll go.
. - Air lock open.
- Read you clear.
- Dallas...Dallas...
-
(voice over) Oh my God.
. - This puts me in command.
- Unless someone's got a better idea about dealing with the Alien, we'll continue with the last plan.
- How are our weapons.
- Get it.
- Any ideas. From you or Mother.
- You mean to tell me with everything we've got, we're still powerless against the Beast.
- I can't believe that.
- Go back to Mother and keep asking questions until you get some better answers.
- Dallas didn't leave the master computer key with you.
- No.
- I know Ash has got the key.
- He knows I want to check up on him...Without that key we've got no access to command priority information.
- Did you ever sleep with Ash?
- No.
- Ripley.
- Can't hear you...Repeat...
- Parker...
- Inner hatch sealed. The outer hatch is open.
-
I don't know. Take over.
. - You tell me.
- I guess the alarm went off by
- Nobody's accusing you.
- Go patch him up.
- How much oxygen have we lost. I want an exact reading.
- If I could find the command computer key, I could prove it.
- You think I'm wrong.
-
Thanks.
. - Let's find out. Wire him back up.
- Do it.
- Ash let it on board. Ash let it grow inside Kane. Ash blew the warning signal.
- Special Order 937.
- That's what I want to know.
- What is Special Order 937.
- Then there's not point in talking to you. Pull the plug.
- Why. Why not tell us.
- They wanted to investigate the Alien. No matter what happened to us.
- How do we kill it.
- How.
- No way.
- We've had enough of your help.
- Nice try, Ash.
- Even if you have contempt for it.
- Sorry Ash. I don't buy it.
- He was conning us.
-
He wasn't protecting our human lives and that's all I care about. Anyway it's done.
. - He's right about one thing. We've got less than twelve hours oxygen left.
- We're not there yet.
- I think we should blow up the ship.
- We leave in the shuttle and then blow up the ship.
- That's all the oxygen.
- Now. Let's get the food, shut off the engines and get out...Jones. Where's Jones.
- Go look. We don't want to leave him.
-
I'll go. You load up the food.
. - Jones. You're in luck.
- Come on, Jones.
- (voice over) God damn it, Jones. Come here.
- Here kitty...come here kitty...
- Parker. Lambert.
- What did it do.
- I'll get you out of there... We'll get up the autodoc.
- What can I do.
-
Mother, I've turned all the cooling units back on.
. - I should reach the frontier in another five weeks. With a little luck the network will pick me up...This is Ripley, W564502460H, executive officer, last survivor of the commercial starship Nostromo signing off.
- Come on cat.
June 28th, 2012 at 10:12:46 AM
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Well Prometheus has sold 14 million tickets in 19 days. A far cry from the 31 million tickets Alien sold in 1979. The business case for the sequel is strong, but not overwhelming.
The biggest concern is that the principals are getting pretty booked up for the next few years. Ridley Scott has several movies that he is signed on to do, including a sequel to Blade Runner. Michael Fassbender (David, the android) has his lucrative role as Magneto in the X-men, and Noomi Rapace is doing "Dead Man Down" and is fairly hot property.
The best scenario is that it will be a minimum of 3 years, and more than likely longer.
The biggest concern is that the principals are getting pretty booked up for the next few years. Ridley Scott has several movies that he is signed on to do, including a sequel to Blade Runner. Michael Fassbender (David, the android) has his lucrative role as Magneto in the X-men, and Noomi Rapace is doing "Dead Man Down" and is fairly hot property.
The best scenario is that it will be a minimum of 3 years, and more than likely longer.
June 28th, 2012 at 5:35:27 PM
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Quote: pacomartinWell Prometheus has sold 14 million tickets in 19 days. A far cry from the 31 million tickets Alien sold in 1979. The business case for the sequel is strong, but not overwhelming.
The biggest concern is that the principals are getting pretty booked up for the next few years. Ridley Scott has several movies that he is signed on to do, including a sequel to Blade Runner. Michael Fassbender (David, the android) has his lucrative role as Magneto in the X-men, and Noomi Rapace is doing "Dead Man Down" and is fairly hot property.
The best scenario is that it will be a minimum of 3 years, and more than likely longer.
With advances in CGI, Fassbender's performance could be done completely digital, or even just a voice-over, like HAL in 2001.
The key will be getting Ridley Scott back. I think he would have more sucess with Prometheus 2, than Blade Runner 2. While respected as a ground breaking film, I don't think the original Blade Runner has many fans among the key movie going teen-aged demographic.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
June 28th, 2012 at 5:43:06 PM
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Quote: pacomartinWell Prometheus has sold 14 million tickets in 19 days. A far cry from the 31 million tickets Alien sold in 1979. The business case for the sequel is strong, but not overwhelming.
The biggest concern is that the principals are getting pretty booked up for the next few years. Ridley Scott has several movies that he is signed on to do, including a sequel to Blade Runner. Michael Fassbender (David, the android) has his lucrative role as Magneto in the X-men, and Noomi Rapace is doing "Dead Man Down" and is fairly hot property.
The best scenario is that it will be a minimum of 3 years, and more than likely longer.
WOW, how did you get the script for that? Google?
Ken
June 28th, 2012 at 6:40:09 PM
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Quote: mrjjjWOW, how did you get the script for that? Google?
Internet Movie Script Data Base has a lot of scripts. There are people who transcribe movies as well. Scripts are more interesting because sometimes you see how changes were made in the actual movie.
One of the funniest items in a script is in the draft for Terminator where Arnold says "I'll come back" . You wonder who made the change.
The original script for Alien was radically different. For one thing it was called Starbeast.
It had a unisex CAST OF CHARACTERS, where all parts were interchangeable for men or women.
CHAZ STANDARD, Captain.................A leader and a politician. Believes that any action is better than no action.
MARTIN ROBY, Executive Officer.......Cautious but intelligent -- a survivor.
DELL BROUSSARD, Navigator...............Adventurer; brash glory-hound.
SANDY MELKONIS, Communications..........Tech Intellectual; a romantic.
CLEAVE HUNTER, Mining Engineer.........High-strung; came along to make his fortune.
JAY FAUST, Engine Tech.............A worker. Unimaginative.
The final script made huge changes including the name. The Executive Officer is split into two parts (John Hurt and Sigourney Weaver).
Dallas.........Captain .. Tom Skerritt
Kane...........Executive Officer .. John Hurt
Ripley.........Warrant Officer ..Sigourney Weaver
Ash............Science Officer ... Ian Holm
Lambert........Navigator ... Veronica Cartwright
Parker.........Engineer ... Yaphet Kotto
Brett..........Engineering Technician ... Harry Dean Stanton
Jones..........Cat
June 28th, 2012 at 6:48:55 PM
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Quote: pacomartinInternet Movie Script Data Base has a lot of scripts. There are people who transcribe movies as well. Scripts are more interesting because sometimes you see how changes were made in the actual movie.
One of the funniest items in a script is in the draft for Terminator where Arnold says "I'll come back" . You wonder who made the change.
The original script for Alien was radically different. For one thing it was called Starbeast.
It had a unisex CAST OF CHARACTERS, where all parts were interchangeable for men or women.
CHAZ STANDARD, Captain.................A leader and a politician. Believes that any action is better than no action.
MARTIN ROBY, Executive Officer.......Cautious but intelligent -- a survivor.
DELL BROUSSARD, Navigator...............Adventurer; brash glory-hound.
SANDY MELKONIS, Communications..........Tech Intellectual; a romantic.
CLEAVE HUNTER, Mining Engineer.........High-strung; came along to make his fortune.
JAY FAUST, Engine Tech.............A worker. Unimaginative.
The final script made huge changes including the name. The Executive Officer is split into two parts (John Hurt and Sigourney Weaver).
Dallas.........Captain .. Tom Skerritt
Kane...........Executive Officer .. John Hurt
Ripley.........Warrant Officer ..Sigourney Weaver
Ash............Science Officer ... Ian Holm
Lambert........Navigator ... Veronica Cartwright
Parker.........Engineer ... Yaphet Kotto
Brett..........Engineering Technician ... Harry Dean Stanton
Jones..........Cat
Thanks for the link.
Ken
June 29th, 2012 at 9:17:36 PM
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Here are a couple videos I discovered that are part of the Prometheus story, predating the movie. They illustrate how the Weyland company got its start in robotics. I interpret their success in that field is what financed the trip as seen in the movie.
Peter Weyland
David
Peter Weyland
David
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
June 30th, 2012 at 4:36:56 AM
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Quote: WizardHere are a couple videos I discovered that are part of the Prometheus story, predating the movie. They illustrate how the Weyland company got its start in robotics. I interpret their success in that field is what financed the trip as seen in the movie.
The script for Starbeast that was eventually fashioned into the original movie Alien did not have an android. It was strictly a monster movie. It seems as if androids and robotics are a personal fascination for Ridley Scott since they are featured so prominently in his films. I hope he lives to be a hundred so that he can make all these movies.
June 30th, 2012 at 9:21:35 AM
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A comic strip that reminded me of this thread.
July 1st, 2012 at 8:24:55 PM
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Quote: DocA comic strip that reminded me of this thread.
Note that as R-rated movies this year, Prometheus with a $130 million budget, and it's search for the meaning of life, earned $51 million it's first weekend, and Ted with a $50 million budget, and a vulgar Teddy Bear who smokes pot and brings home whores, earns $54 million it's opening weekend.
How did Ted come alive? Why was he the only one? Would Mila Kunis really wait four years before deciding to force the issue? How does a Teddy bear know about anti-Semitism, homophobia, bullied children, rape, Lou Gehrig’s Disease and “kid cancer”?
October 28th, 2012 at 10:30:04 PM
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Found this cool vid on youtube about the creation of the set for the ending of Prometheus. Thread was started on WoV, so I'm posting it here rather than DT.
"Poker sure is an easy game to beat if you have the roll to keep rebuying."
October 29th, 2012 at 12:53:57 AM
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Helps you appreciate the vision to make realistic CGI images vs very crappy ones.
October 29th, 2012 at 5:10:56 AM
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Quote: pacomartinNote that as R-rated movies this year, Prometheus with a $130 million budget, and it's search for the meaning of life, earned $51 million it's first weekend, and Ted with a $50 million budget, and a vulgar Teddy Bear who smokes pot and brings home whores, earns $54 million it's opening weekend.
I can see how this sounds so wrong, but that's the realities of fixed-price entertainment: only the number of viewers is the deciding metric.
And, as for redeeming qualities, I'm pretty sure that very few of the viewers who came in to see a vulgar teddy bear were disappointed, while Prometheus was, at least for me, one of the biggest movie disappointments of the year. So pretentious, yet so cliched, and playing it with such a straight face as if it invented them.
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October 29th, 2012 at 8:27:27 AM
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I thought the same thing as Zippyboy....the Engineer in the beginning is "seeding" a planet with life. Doesn't matter if it's earth or another planet. Clearly the implication is that the Engineers seeded numerous planets. Thats why all the shots of a primordial looking planet. Also you see the spaceship that dropped him off fly away. So he was clearly flown there for that purpose (and presumably sacrificed himself as part of the seeding process). At least that was my take when I first saw the film. Now these other theories have me wondering...hmmm.
No way to know till the sequel(s) come out I suppose. I too, found the film a little disapointing on first viewing, but just watched it again and I liked it a lot better. The more you think about the many possibilites the more interesting it becomes. Also the clear ties to the "alien" franchise were all over the film early on if you watch closely. Not just the scene at the end.
No way to know till the sequel(s) come out I suppose. I too, found the film a little disapointing on first viewing, but just watched it again and I liked it a lot better. The more you think about the many possibilites the more interesting it becomes. Also the clear ties to the "alien" franchise were all over the film early on if you watch closely. Not just the scene at the end.
November 14th, 2012 at 9:50:10 PM
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Quote: vendman1I too, found the film a little disapointing on first viewing, but just watched it again and I liked it a lot better.
Just watched it again on Netflix and I completely agree, it is better the second time. This movies just keeps growing me. Yes, the movie could be better, but the story it tells just doesn't get much better. I can't wait until the next one.
Let me say that I predict that in 20 years I predict Prometheus to be considered a science fiction classic, as 2001 is today, which was also widely panned when it came out.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
November 16th, 2012 at 11:10:04 PM
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Wizard: I have a lot of respect for your intellect and general awesomeness, but your theory of what happens in the beginning of Prometheus is probably the worst thing I've ever read that wasn't a joke. It's just bad man.
November 17th, 2012 at 4:20:24 AM
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Quote: bbvk05Wizard: I have a lot of respect for your intellect and general awesomeness, but your theory of what happens in the beginning of Prometheus is probably the worst thing I've ever read that wasn't a joke. It's just bad man.
Keep in mind that I wrote that shortly after the movie came out, before other information suggested another theory. Show a little compassion, brother.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
November 18th, 2012 at 9:26:24 PM
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Quote: WizardKeep in mind that I wrote that shortly after the movie came out, before other information suggested another theory. Show a little compassion, brother.
Alright you got me. Props for keeping it posted despite the blemishes.
I do hate the movie though. The problems with the movie and various stupidities drive me crazy even if the idea behind the story is decent. My frustrations are summed up by this question: How does David's head know that the Engineer is coming for the protagonist woman (Noomi) after Engineer ship crashes?
November 19th, 2012 at 6:46:43 AM
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Quote: bbvk05How does David's head know that the Engineer is coming for the protagonist woman (Noomi) after Engineer ship crashes?
Maybe he heard his footsteps. The Bionic Woman could hear all kinds of things like that.
"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)
November 19th, 2012 at 6:53:41 AM
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Quote: WizardJust watched it again on Netflix and I completely agree, it is better the second time. This movies just keeps growing me. Yes, the movie could be better, but the story it tells just doesn't get much better. I can't wait until the next one.
Let me say that I predict that in 20 years I predict Prometheus to be considered a science fiction classic, as 2001 is today, which was also widely panned when it came out.
I'll need to watch it again. At least for me, I found it a bit of a let-down, although there were such high expectations, it would have been hard to meet them regardless.
Not to go off-topic, but is it me or has there been a serious drought of good science-fiction films the past many years?
Lack of prior planning on your part doesn't constitute an emergency on my part.
November 19th, 2012 at 9:29:53 AM
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Quote: WizardMaybe he heard his footsteps. The Bionic Woman could hear all kinds of things like that.
David might know that the eningeer was leaving the crashed ship, but how does he specifically know that the engineer is coming for the protagonist in the escape pod? Remember he radios her and warns her something like 'he's coming for you'. How does David know that? How does the engineer even know that the protagonist even exists or survived the crash? How does he know where she is? How does David divine that the engineer knows all these things and is coming to kill her? Is David just making shit up and happens to be exactly right?
The answer, of course, is that it is a story trick to build tension (it's scary to be warned). It also doesn't make any sense. Horrible writing. There are more than a few of these type of problems, but I recite this particular problem as representative of the others.
January 10th, 2013 at 9:52:46 PM
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Just re-watched Alien and Aliens (after seeing Prometheus a while ago). Turned out quite unlike what I remembered/expected.
Didn't realize before just by how much Alien is better in most every regard. Even though I've seen the movie before and remembered the basic plot, it kept me on my toes - I rarely knew what would happen next. And when it did, it often wasn't what I expected, or at least it wasn't quite when I expected. A far cry from completely predictable Prometheus that set up every shot ten minutes in advance.
The characters acted, for the most part, quite reasonably. Not enough to be genre-aware, but nothing they did screamed "why", they always felt just-not-ready-enough. The ship was far too grimy and a little too dark, and the '80s computers, well. But at least it clicked into place. Back from the day I recalled it as a horror flick; now I fully understand why Alien is a sci-fi thriller classic.
What I didn't realize before is how similar Prometheus' story is; more of a rehashing of Alien's story, only superficially positioned as a prequel. Alien is more different from Aliens than Prometheus is from Alien. The attempts at suggesting some existential meaning or depth were dragged out of thin air; it's not like the original two movies lacked substance, by genre standards. Even watching them in sequence, the plot connection between Prometheus and Alien is string-thin, far from Aliens that managed to pick up right where Alien left.
All in all, between all three, Prometheus more clips on the side of the story than build into it, but it's of course still better than 3, Res and Avp.
Didn't realize before just by how much Alien is better in most every regard. Even though I've seen the movie before and remembered the basic plot, it kept me on my toes - I rarely knew what would happen next. And when it did, it often wasn't what I expected, or at least it wasn't quite when I expected. A far cry from completely predictable Prometheus that set up every shot ten minutes in advance.
The characters acted, for the most part, quite reasonably. Not enough to be genre-aware, but nothing they did screamed "why", they always felt just-not-ready-enough. The ship was far too grimy and a little too dark, and the '80s computers, well. But at least it clicked into place. Back from the day I recalled it as a horror flick; now I fully understand why Alien is a sci-fi thriller classic.
What I didn't realize before is how similar Prometheus' story is; more of a rehashing of Alien's story, only superficially positioned as a prequel. Alien is more different from Aliens than Prometheus is from Alien. The attempts at suggesting some existential meaning or depth were dragged out of thin air; it's not like the original two movies lacked substance, by genre standards. Even watching them in sequence, the plot connection between Prometheus and Alien is string-thin, far from Aliens that managed to pick up right where Alien left.
All in all, between all three, Prometheus more clips on the side of the story than build into it, but it's of course still better than 3, Res and Avp.
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January 11th, 2013 at 8:27:39 AM
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Quote: TheBigPaybakI'll need to watch it again. At least for me, I found it a bit of a let-down, although there were such high expectations, it would have been hard to meet them regardless.
Not to go off-topic, but is it me or has there been a serious drought of good science-fiction films the past many years?
I will admit that Prometheus had some serious flaws, but it had a lot of positive points. Much of science-fiction has endless gobbley-gook dialogue that passes for some technical interchange. The really great novels have visions of a changed sociology. Dune with it's vision of social order returning to medieval social structures. I Robot stories with their three laws of robotics. Stanisław Lem with his philosophy and discussion of how we would communicate with an alien world. Ursula K. Le Guin was almost totally disinterested in technology and wrote about politics, gender roles, religion, sexuality and ethnography.
I have to give credit to the makers of Prometheus for trying to enlarge the film genre a little from it's recent self imposed limitations. It did try to go into mythology and origins much like 2001: A Space Odyssey .
January 12th, 2013 at 7:14:09 PM
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Quote: WizardThere has already been some discussion of Promethus in the Favorite Sci Fi Movie thread. What brings this thread on is I've been discussing the movie with my brother and we disagree on a number of things that were not exactly clear in the movie.
A lot of it seems to boil down to what the heck was the opening scene all about. In particular, which planet does it take place on, why did the Engineer take the blaze ooze, and what would have happened as a result? The question for the poll is which planet did it take place on? Here are a couple theories to get the discussion going.
So, please vote for which planet you believe the opening took place on and then argue your position. The "home planet" is the one never seen in the movie, but discussed towards the end.
I saw this movie 2 months ago on DVD and it really bothered me. I'll opine on the Wizard's question first. The "home planet" where the Engineer drinks the black stuff and dies as his DNA is being eroded while he falls off into waterfall I suspect is the planet that the evil mothership is on. I don't think it's the engineer's home planet. I suspect that the black stuff is the biological weapon that contaminates the planet and subsequently screws up the ecosystem and genetically mutates or destroys all life on the planet. The end result of the mutations are those snake things that come after and kills one of the scientists and have infested the mothership. So if this theory is the case, some home planet for the engineers must be far far away right? Possibly. If the Engineers are working on a biological weapon, they've probably killed each other off far far away as well.
I have issues with this movie. First all, any StarTrek fan, sci-fi geek, etc knows the rules of first contact. In the beginning scene as the scientists explore the big spaceship, why the hell would you take your helmet off? You've just contaminated yourself. Why the hell would you touch anything? Use a stick for gods sake. When you get back to the ship, why don't you quarantine yourself? Dumb dumb and more dumb. Oh and then you sleep with the female scientist contaminating her. Brilliant. Why don't the scientists bring weapons on their exploration of the spaceship? Away teams in StarTrek have phasers / phase rifles. Hell even the Coast Guard which does search and rescue has a gun or two.
Then you have to love the scene where the biologist meets the snake creature. Oh it's ok. Look a cute snake. WTF?! You are on an alien planet and you see a snake hissing at you. RUN THE HELL AWAY. Don't reach out and touch it. And of course he dies, painfully as the snake goes through his suit and into his throat while his partner is getting his face burned with acid from trying to cut the snake off his arm.
There is so much bad scripting, I'll just fast forward to part of the ending where the giant ship is rolling like a donut down the planet. Why does the female scientist try to run away in a straight line parallel to the ship on the same path? You should cut across perpendicular.
January 12th, 2013 at 7:39:01 PM
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Quote: AsswhoopermcdaddyIn the beginning scene as the scientists explore the big spaceship, why the hell would you take your helmet off? You've just contaminated yourself. ...
All answered by Alien: the characters there do not take their helmets off (the creature does melt through the helmet, however), do not touch aliens on purpose, they do attempt to quarantine their shipmate, and they do take up arms and try to use a buddy system right away.
It appears that human intelligence has taken a major leap forward in between the events of the movies.
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January 12th, 2013 at 7:41:45 PM
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A little more common sense and a little less curiosity would do humanity wonders.
November 30th, 2014 at 4:17:43 PM
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I saw it yesterday.
It's not the worst science fiction movie ever because 1) the Star Wars Prequels and 2) it isn't really science fiction, but rather a monster flick with science fiction elements. Calling this or any of the "Alien" movie science fiction would be like calling "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" a historical drama.
The one good thing about it is that I didn't pay to see it.
As to the arguments regarding the "engineers," here's my take: it doesn't matter, they're just another set of monsters in a monster movie, perhaps also partly a plot device. After all, the one "engineer" we see do something other than kill or try to kill humans, does something completely unrelated to the plot, such as it is, of the movie.
The exposition is that ancient humans worshiped giants, as illustrated in unrelated artifacts, all portraying the same constellation. We don't see that. We see an "engineer" do something horrible to himself, or perhaps having something horrible done to him (he looked upset at being torn apart from the inside out). In a bad science fiction movie like Stargate, we do see the aliens arriving on Earth in ancient times, among ancient people.
Also, Ridley Scott needs to get over his love affair with dimly lit sequences. It worked on alien for the same reason the fuzzy underwater scenes worked in "Jaws" (another monster movie): the effects at the time were terrible and the less we saw of the creature the better the illusion. In these days of sophisticated CGI with no visual limits, it no longer works.
It's not the worst science fiction movie ever because 1) the Star Wars Prequels and 2) it isn't really science fiction, but rather a monster flick with science fiction elements. Calling this or any of the "Alien" movie science fiction would be like calling "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" a historical drama.
The one good thing about it is that I didn't pay to see it.
As to the arguments regarding the "engineers," here's my take: it doesn't matter, they're just another set of monsters in a monster movie, perhaps also partly a plot device. After all, the one "engineer" we see do something other than kill or try to kill humans, does something completely unrelated to the plot, such as it is, of the movie.
The exposition is that ancient humans worshiped giants, as illustrated in unrelated artifacts, all portraying the same constellation. We don't see that. We see an "engineer" do something horrible to himself, or perhaps having something horrible done to him (he looked upset at being torn apart from the inside out). In a bad science fiction movie like Stargate, we do see the aliens arriving on Earth in ancient times, among ancient people.
Also, Ridley Scott needs to get over his love affair with dimly lit sequences. It worked on alien for the same reason the fuzzy underwater scenes worked in "Jaws" (another monster movie): the effects at the time were terrible and the less we saw of the creature the better the illusion. In these days of sophisticated CGI with no visual limits, it no longer works.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
