Does anybody actually PAY $300+ for a 3-star room???
I thought with the nicer weather and Revel opening, I would take a trip to Atlantic City on an extended weekend. I got two nights comped at Showboat (or I could have Bally's if I wanted), Sunday April 15-Monday April 16th. I could probably cancel Monday night if I had to, since I'll have to drive back early in the morning. I also had a free anytime offer from Resorts.
Well, after calling a week ago, they said they had no rooms to comp for Saturday April 14. Okay, no big deal, I'll just try later. Tonight, I called Resorts again, and they still have no comp rooms available. I asked about a rate and they said it was $249 (which was on the website, so it's not even really a "casino rate"). I thought I'd call Showboat, the CHEAPEST Saturday night rate for any of the Caesars properties was $309 BEFORE TAX!
I know Showboat is near Revel, but c'mon! Do people actually pay those exorbitant rates? I'm sure if I were going with multiple people I could split the cost of the room, but even 3 ways it's over $100 a night!
Btw, I even tried to do another Tunica trip. I can get all BUT Saturday night comped, but only at Harrah's, and I prefer Roadhouse or Horseshoe. Granted, I could get a $55 room on Saturday night there, but for Tunica, it's the principal of the thing. I may still do it; I emailed my executive host, and hopefully she'll come through for me.
And the worst part? All of the rooms are usually booked full!
I just don't understand it.
Quote: TiltpoulI know Showboat is near Revel, but c'mon! Do people actually pay those exorbitant rates? I'm sure if I were going with multiple people I could split the cost of the room, but even 3 ways it's over $100 a night!
I remember once that the San Diego Tribune wrote an article about what would happen when their were three simultaneous conventions in town. The Hotel 8 was advertising rooms for over $600.
So I think the answer is yes, people can be strongarmed into paying $300 for one night (especially if they have two free nights), and it would not be the worst that happens to people.
Comic-con hotel rates
Quote: TiltpoulI know Showboat is near Revel, but c'mon! Do people actually pay those exorbitant rates?
Yes. if they didn't, then the rates would go down.
Oh, not everyone does. Some may ave reserved far enough in advance to have gotten a lower rate. Some get comps, too, even at this rate. But enough people pay the exorbitant rates so they stay exorbitant.
Quote: pacomartinI remember once that the San Diego Tribune wrote an article about what would happen when their were three simultaneous conventions in town. The Hotel 8 was advertising rooms for over $600.
So I think the answer is yes, people can be strongarmed into paying $300 for one night (especially if they have two free nights), and it would not be the worst that happens to people.
Comic-con hotel rates
Actually, I could probably be a bit more clear... I meant for a casino hotel, not just any hotel. It would not surprise me in bigger cities that 3-star hotels would go for $300 a night. However, casinos are clearly making money other places, so why gouge people on the hotel? I know the arguments, I'm not going to even refute them. But given Atlantic City's dire situation, you would think they would do everything to bring people in.
Since posting, I checked ACH hotel rates for that day. $195, which would probably be the cheapest I could find in AC. That's WAY too much for that property.
Quote: TiltpoulBut given Atlantic City's dire situation, you would think they would do everything to bring people in.
They are bringing people in. So many that the place is saturated and can afford to charge higher rates.
I think in essence you're saying "No wonder no one ever comes here. It's to crowded." ;)
Quote: NareedThey are bringing people in. So many that the place is saturated and can afford to charge higher rates.
I think in essence you're saying "No wonder no one ever comes here. It's to crowded." ;)
Yes, Atlantic City is a Summer/Weekend town. They need the business on the weekdays and during the winter. Still, charging ridiculous rates (and let's face it; $309 is RIDICULOUS for ONE NIGHT at SHOWBOAT!!!!) is not a good business model in this economy. Even 4 and 5-star rooms in Vegas only get that pricey during peak times (conventions, Super Bowl, etc). I don't see how you'll attract PA customers on the weekends by raising rates to sky-high levels.
Quote: TiltpoulSince posting, I checked ACH hotel rates for that day. $195, which would probably be the cheapest I could find in AC. That's WAY too much for that property.
For $139 you can stay at Rodeway Inn At the Beach (NJ022) 3601 Pacific Ave, Atlantic City, NJ, US, 08401
which is a 300-400 yards from ACH.
For $199 you can get a jacuzzi (1 room left).
Quote: pacomartinFor $139 you can stay at Rodeway Inn At the Beach (NJ022) 3601 Pacific Ave, Atlantic City, NJ, US, 08401
which is a 300-400 yards from ACH.
For $199 you can get a jacuzzi (1 room left).
I think I know where that's at... and I think I'll pass. Maybe it's just me but those motels around the casinos are really sleazy. I feel a little safer at ACH (though not that much).
which is between ACH and Tropicana.
You really never want to say you're sold out. You always want to keep a few rooms open for whatever reason.
So, as more rooms get booked, the price goes up.
The result is a potential guest turns the hotel down, not the other way around.
Quote: TiltpoulYes, Atlantic City is a Summer/Weekend town. They need the business on the weekdays and during the winter. Still, charging ridiculous rates (and let's face it; $309 is RIDICULOUS for ONE NIGHT at SHOWBOAT!!!!) is not a good business model in this economy. Even 4 and 5-star rooms in Vegas only get that pricey during peak times (conventions, Super Bowl, etc). I don't see how you'll attract PA customers on the weekends by raising rates to sky-high levels.
We seem to be misscomunicating. My understanding is the exorbitant rates are for a weekend during which the place will be crowded. Under such conditions, prices shoot up and people pay them.
If the rates are year-round, then I see the problem. otherwise I see no harm for the business model at all.
Quote: NareedWe seem to be misscomunicating. My understanding is the exorbitant rates are for a weekend during which the place will be crowded. Under such conditions, prices shoot up and people pay them.
If the rates are year-round, then I see the problem. otherwise I see no harm for the business model at all.
I don't think it was a miscommunication on your part... it was a miscommunication of too many jumbled ideas on my part. I sometimes do that, just read my blog posts!! ;-)
What I was TRYING to say...
1) AC can charge higher rates on weekends and during the summer because of supply and demand... I get that part. AC is suffering though and they need business on weekdays and during the winter. Allowing rates to go sky-high and exorbitant for mid-level properties turns off people who might consider going more often.
2) As a result, PA customers who now have options for table games are less likely to travel to AC on the weekends. Again, if they don't come on the weekends, when are they likely to show up?
I think I might just call Caesars back and try to get this taken care of... I'm dismayed that they quote me a HIGHER price on a Saturday than a "guest." I'm FRICKIN' DIAMOND!!! I am not usually coy or sinister but I may just play them against themselves in a sly way.
Wait a sec...Quote: TiltpoulII think I might just call Caesars back and try to get this taken care of... I'm dismayed that they quote me a HIGHER price on a Saturday than a "guest." I'm FRICKIN' DIAMOND!!! I am not usually coy or sinister but I may just play them against themselves in a sly way.
Are you saying that they are charging MORE when you enter you TR number, for the same night at the same location? And you're a DIAMOND? Gee, I wonder how good us lowly Golds will be treated....
Quote: DJTeddyBearWait a sec...
Are you saying that they are charging MORE when you enter you TR number, for the same night at the same location? And you're a DIAMOND? Gee, I wonder how good us lowly Golds will be treated....
Yes sir... and after a second call, I got the same rate. After getting a little bit snippy with that rep (and her OBVIOUSLY scripted answers), I asked for a different number I could call to speak to somebody about the problem. She game me another number, which ended up going to the same call center, where the associate directed me to a manager (after 3 times of saying I was not happy!) Supervisor Alexis basically did the same run around without EVER LISTENING TO ME! I eventually lost my cool, where she finally directed me to a number where I am now on hold.
We'll see how all this turns out. In the meantime, I will be starting a new thread to boycott Caesars call-in hotel reservations. Use them at your own risk.
Quote: TiltpoulWe'll see how all this turns out. In the meantime, I will be starting a new thread to boycott Caesars call-in hotel reservations. Use them at your own risk.
Okay, I'm not going to start a new thread... yet... The next number I called I got a VIP Reservation line, still not direct to Atlantic City, but the woman on that end of the phone seemed much more capable of handling my concerns. She still quoted the $309 rate at first, but I asked why a nobody who booked on caesars.com would get a better rate than a Diamond player. She didn't have the answer, so she spoke with management, and came back with a much lower rate of $189, and told me it was booked (which to be honest, I may not do since that's still a bit higher than what I like to spend for a room). I still never got a concrete answer as to why a hotel rate on the website is lower than calling in. They have a booking fee they charge for phone reservations, so rates should be the same... whatever...
For fun, I went to see what rooms tomorrow night in Atlantic City run. Caesars and Harrah's have no rooms available. Showboat you can get a room for about 650 dollars. The one that CRACKS ME UP... Bally's, the CHEAPEST room you can get is only $7,999.20 !!! Most of the rooms are a mere $9,990 ! FOR ONE NIGHT!!!
Atlantic City will be meeting its Waterloo in T-minus 10, 9...
Quote: TiltpoulShowboat you can get a room for about 650 dollars. The one that CRACKS ME UP... Bally's, the CHEAPEST room you can get is only $7,999.20 !!! Most of the rooms are a mere $9,990 ! FOR ONE NIGHT!!!
In the news article I read, the reporter asked about those extortionate rates. The more reasonable hotels simply sell out (admittedly at high rates). It's actually the cheapest hotels that do those exorbitant rates.
It's simply a matter of gambling. Your average person will push himself to stay up all night and walk around the casino rather than pay thousands of dollars for a standard room. Other people will fall asleep in a car, and change locations when the police roust you.
But the hotels say that there are some people who have the means and can be blackmailed for those rates. They have money and they won't sleep in a car. You only need to sell a few rooms a year to make a difference in your balance sheet.
Quote: TiltpoulOkay, I'm not going to start a new thread... yet... The next number I called I got a VIP Reservation line, still not direct to Atlantic City, but the woman on that end of the phone seemed much more capable of handling my concerns. She still quoted the $309 rate at first, but I asked why a nobody who booked on caesars.com would get a better rate than a Diamond player. She didn't have the answer, so she spoke with management, and came back with a much lower rate of $189, and told me it was booked (which to be honest, I may not do since that's still a bit higher than what I like to spend for a room). I still never got a concrete answer as to why a hotel rate on the website is lower than calling in. They have a booking fee they charge for phone reservations, so rates should be the same... whatever...
For fun, I went to see what rooms tomorrow night in Atlantic City run. Caesars and Harrah's have no rooms available. Showboat you can get a room for about 650 dollars. The one that CRACKS ME UP... Bally's, the CHEAPEST room you can get is only $7,999.20 !!! Most of the rooms are a mere $9,990 ! FOR ONE NIGHT!!!
Atlantic City will be meeting its Waterloo in T-minus 10, 9...
Sometimes there have been large events that I didn't even know about that have forced the appearance of those ridiculous rates. (I am also a Diamond) The AC (1/2) Marathon along the beach is this weekend, which is a pretty sizable event.
I don't find anything wrong with their variable rates though. It's just business. An empty room for a night is the same as my business (radio) where if you don't sell a commercial, you can never get it back. So when there's a lot of availability, you can almost give it away. But when you are booked up, you make a "bump" rate that's very high and if someone wants to pay it, you bump someone else. In a hotel, my guess is they have very few rooms that they same for an occasional emergency whale (or if too many whales come in), but they'll also advertise them at $X thousand dollars since that would probably be worth more than what would be lost if a whale came in, demanded a room, you had NONE and absolutely couldn't find any, and lost his business.
Of course, AC is doing really well right now. ALL the casinos are HIGHLY successful, and NONE OF THEM are struggling financially to stay afloat. They can afford to lose customers right now because, let's face it, there's an endless supply of gamblers who are flocking to the coast to gamble....
Oh wait, we're having discussions on here about Atlantic City not doing well?!? Wait, people keep producing information saying that revenue is hitting an all-time low, that business is flocking AWAY FROM ATLANTIC CITY?!?
I wouldn't guess that with $10,000 room rates... T-minus 8,7
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Sadly, I don't really care about what's going on. It's obvious that AC is suffering, and it's entirely the fault of those who are content to lose customers to MAYBE get a higher dollar on a room. Las Vegas was *relatively* smart... they had an excess of room inventory, with new hotels popping up all the time. They created tiers (somewhat naturally) where ALL people would have price points to fit their budget. You want cheap, stay at IP or Casino Royale... You want extravagant, pick Wynn, Bellagio or Cosmopolitan.
Atlantic City, IMO (and I know it's MY OPINION), is not in the position to be choosy for customers. If your revenue is dropping to dangerous levels, and new competition is on the horizon from New York, then Atlantic City needs to reconsider its strategy. ACH can barely keep the doors open, Resorts hasn't been able to pay its mortgage and yet room rates are unbelievable, even for gamblers.
And for those who want to argue Supply and Demand, I took economics... I get how it works. Unfortunately, this whole experience has completely turned me off from ever wanting to go to Atlantic City again. Yes, weekend traffic is heavier, yes summer traffic is heavier... but guess what, AC is not in a position to lose valuable business...
Or maybe all the data and information they are submitting is a bunch of lies and they are able to balance the books. This could be one big old ruse to keep guv'ment off their dollars.
T-minus 6,5
I am not sure what the state of hospitality law is today. Like most things, I would not be surprised if the government has turned pricing over to market forces.
There are hotels within 6 miles of the Boardwalk that are still inexpensive that night. Pay for a cab. It is better than getting gouged by hundreds of dollars.
Quality Inn & Suites Atlantic City Marina District (NJ056)
328 East White Horse Pike , Absecon, NJ, US, 08205
Phone: (609) 652-3300Fax: (609) 652-8885
Quote: pacomartin
There are hotels within 6 miles of the Boardwalk that are still inexpensive that night. Pay for a cab. It is better than getting gouged by hundreds of dollars.
Paco- the fact that they have sold out even at those prices means that many disagree with you. What is the 'value' of being able to stumble back to your room, then stumble back downstairs, ... to you not that much, but for many who make the rare trip, the thought of cabbing back and forth doesn't compute...
The same can be said for almost every hotel in Manhattan. I pay a lot for a clean room in the city every December, rather than pay half as much for the same room across the river in New Jersey. For my one weekend there I just dont want to take a train. The same room I book in December is 1/4 as much for a similar weekend in January. I don't 'like' paying that much in December, but I am aware of the market forces that allow the hotels to do so.
Precisely. The market is segmented and not always along lines of demarcation that are sensible.Quote: SOOPOOWhat is the 'value' of being able to stumble back to your room, then stumble back downstairs, ... to you not that much, but for many who make the rare trip, the thought of cabbing back and forth doesn't compute.
Some customers may pay an exorbitant rate for a "stumble room" rather than a DUI lawyer. Some customers may value the prestige of being in stumbling range. The hotel wants rooms filled at higher prices, so they cater to the Dog Owner or the Drunkard.
Prices climbing so high that they are a deterrent to average customers will soon lead to a reaction amongst those who might otherwise be loyal customers. Eventually the hotel will anger too many loyal customers ... and then it will blame the economy.
Quote: SOOPOOIf they are charging $300 per room and filling them, then that is better for the casino than charging $150 and filling them. If they are charging $300 and the hotel is half empty, then they made a mistake. I'm betting they know their market and price accordingly. The fact that even the fleabag motels are getting $150 shows that the bigger hotels are able to charge the exorbitant fees and get away with it. And, a customer who had 'sticker shock' on seeing the $300 price might look midweek instead at the 'bargain' rate of $100 and be happy they got sucha good deal. I am a Gold player and get emails all the time offerring me cheap midweek rates.
Once again, I get the fact that it's a supply and demand issue for the weekend.... I think I've said that a few times actually.
IF Atlantic City were doing quite well, then the formula works. But you keep saying it's working on the weekends... then why are they faltering overall? The system obviously DOES NOT WORK! They are feeding off weekend/summer traffic; if that business model can sustain itself, then AC should be doing well. ACH should be in no danger of closing, and Revel should have opened years ago.
Instead, AC casinos use outdated business models that rely too heavily on peak traffic times. THE CURRENT MODEL DOES NOT WORK! Thus, you can't do "business as usual" and you better figure out a way to fix it. I don't think charging $309 for a very basic room is the key. I don't know what the key is, but it's certainly not that.
Edit (got too emotional):
Quote: FleaStiffPrecisely. The market is segmented and not always along lines of demarcation that are sensible.
Prices climbing so high that they are a deterrent to average customers will soon lead to a reaction amongst those who might otherwise be loyal customers. Eventually the hotel will anger too many loyal customers ... and then it will blame the economy.
THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. Great evaluation Flea... casinos are angering loyal customers, then when things go South, they are blaming the economy. This isn't the ONLY issue AC is facing; they have too many to mention here. But in my opinion, this is by far the biggest.
the casinos in AC will make nice shelters for the homeless, aka their staffs
Quote: Tiltpoul
THIS is exactly what I'm talking about. Great evaluation Flea... casinos are angering loyal customers, then when things go South, they are blaming the economy. This isn't the ONLY issue AC is facing; they have too many to mention here. But in my opinion, this is by far the biggest.
I personally disagree. They are able to give really good prices when things are slow, so then local customers expect to be able to enjoy those rates whenever they want, and will storm off and get mad when there is actually high demand and the rates are similar to places like NYC? I believe your idea of just keeping them lower all the time, including peak times, would have probably killed AC long before now. Again, I used to work in sales at a radio station in an extremely seasonal market. We could barely give away commercials in the winter, because businesses were closed or very slow. But in the summer, the rates were a couple hundred dollars for a 60 second commercial. Few to none of the clients said "But I was able to get them for 5 bucks in January, you suck!" They paid because this was the only time THEY were going to make money and they wanted to get the word out. 20-somethings from NYC coming to AC don't care that the rooms are free or cheap on a Tuesday night in January, they want to come on a Saturday night when things are heating up. If they have to pool $300 between 4 people, big deal.
I think you see something you find annoying, and are blaming all of ACs problems for it. I can't make that leap. If the rate is $300, they aren't dealing with half empty hotels at 1am. They just aren't that dumb. Hotel pricing is not what has caused ACs financial woes.
Quote: FleaStiffPrices climbing so high that they are a deterrent to average customers will soon lead to a reaction amongst those who might otherwise be loyal customers. Eventually the hotel will anger too many loyal customers ... and then it will blame the economy.
This is another point with which I disagree. When I first started going to AC ~15-20 years ago and I wasn't Diamond or anything, if we wanted to spend a night on a weekend, we knew it was a couple hundred bucks. I don't see some mass inflation in the prices. To the contrary, based on my play I've seemed to pay less every year. Of course, there is always an occasional marathon/beer fest weekend, and I accept and understand that other big events may thwart my plans for a good deal.
Quote: cclub79I believe your idea of just keeping them lower all the time, including peak times, would have probably killed AC long before now.
The problem isn't that they have to be low at ALL properties, the problem is that the cost for the lowest end property is still outrageous. I don't have a problem with them charging 300+ a night at Caesars, Borgata or Harrahs. Revel SHOULD be more since it's brand new. But Showboat and Bally's are mid-tier and 300+ is too much.
Quote: cclub779Again, I used to work in sales at a radio station in an extremely seasonal market. We could barely give away commercials in the winter, because businesses were closed or very slow. But in the summer, the rates were a couple hundred dollars for a 60 second commercial. Few to none of the clients said "But I was able to get them for 5 bucks in January, you suck!" They paid because this was the only time THEY were going to make money and they wanted to get the word out. 20-somethings from NYC coming to AC don't care that the rooms are free or cheap on a Tuesday night in January, they want to come on a Saturday night when things are heating up. If they have to pool $300 between 4 people, big deal.
There's a difference between businesses buying advertising and 20-somethings coming to party. Right now, Atlantic City is still too much about gambling, and none of the other stuff. Revel MIGHT change that, but if you're not a beach person, you're coming to gamble. If they want to charge 300+ a night to the beach crowd, fine, but a mid to high tier player should not be getting that rate for a weekend. My initial argument that's sort of drifted off is that I would have gotten a BETTER rate by not giving my card number than if I called and got my card rated... as a Diamond player.
I know if I go to a casino on a weekend, I'll have to pay a hotel rate; I don't expect it to be comped (except in Tunica or Vegas). I was prepared to pay a $149 rate for Atlantic City, but twice that much is too much. Anger too many players like me, and the countdown to Waterloo continues...
Quote: TiltpoulMy initial argument that's sort of drifted off is that I would have gotten a BETTER rate by not giving my card number than if I called and got my card rated... as a Diamond player.
I agree about that. There's no reason that logging on should be a higher rate. If I called, I would have been close to asking them to delete my card from the system if it's going to cost me MORE to be a cardmember. Might even play one day, and when asked if I have a card, say "No" and explain why...
If it was anything but a glitch, it's unacceptable.
Quote: cclub79I agree about that. There's no reason that logging on should be a higher rate. If I called, I would have been close to asking them to delete my card from the system if it's going to cost me MORE to be a cardmember. Might even play one day, and when asked if I have a card, say "No" and explain why...
If it was anything but a glitch, it's unacceptable.
It was not a glitch; after talking with 3 different representatives, they all quoted the same rate. The problem was two fold; 1) I had booked two comped rooms for Sunday-Monday before, so the website wouldn't give me a rate, instead prompting me to call the number. 2) Apparently, the website and phone have different rates.
If they want to comp me rooms, I'm glad, but if that's going to give me a higher rate for an extra night, that's terrible. I think it's a bad policy to have different online rates and phone rates when it's the SAME COMPANY! Besides, they charge an extra fee for placing the reservation over the phone. As long as the rates are the same, I get that too. So either do no fee, and have different rates, or offer a fee and have the same or better rates.
I can't cancel my Diamond card, as I play a lot of different places. I'd be shooting myself in the foot, when in general, I really like the casinos I play at.
Quote: TiltpoulIt was not a glitch; after talking with 3 different representatives, they all quoted the same rate. The problem was two fold; 1) I had booked two comped rooms for Sunday-Monday before, so the website wouldn't give me a rate, instead prompting me to call the number. 2) Apparently, the website and phone have different rates.
If they want to comp me rooms, I'm glad, but if that's going to give me a higher rate for an extra night, that's terrible. I think it's a bad policy to have different online rates and phone rates when it's the SAME COMPANY! Besides, they charge an extra fee for placing the reservation over the phone. As long as the rates are the same, I get that too. So either do no fee, and have different rates, or offer a fee and have the same or better rates.
I had something similar when booking multiple days.
Quote:
I can't cancel my Diamond card, as I play a lot of different places. I'd be shooting myself in the foot, when in general, I really like the casinos I play at.
Me too, but I would just threaten to express displeasure.
Quote: cclub79Me too, but I would just threaten to express displeasure.
Eh, I work in customer service in a retail job. Empty threats are just that...empty. I will never provide an empty threat at all. If I say I'm not going to do something or boycott something, I will. That's why I didn't start the thread about boycotting yet. I'm not sure that's something I can do just yet, though I came awfully close.
Besides, if you saw my play as a rep on the other end, you know I would be lying. However, when I said I would have to question whether I play in Atlantic City, I was dead serious. Even with the better rate, I'm not sure I'm going to go there... I really have to weigh my options. Tunica is about the same distance, but I hate having to pay for Saturday night. That just kills me.
Quote: TiltpoulEh, I work in customer service in a retail job. Empty threats are just that...empty.
Sometimes serious threats are empty, too. We handle clients who order thousands of pounds of food per month. When a small client with a delivery of ten pounds per week threatens you to find another supplier, the threat is pretty empty. Not because he won't do it, but because you won't even notice.
