Is this Mike or AI

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September 23rd, 2024 at 7:21:38 AM permalink

Quote: Mental
Quote: toolyp
Quote: darkoz
Quote: ChumpChange
I still doubt Wizard saw the video. It was on 8-CBS News and everything!

link to original post

Wizard:

You are saying this is not a genuine image of you? That is not a room you recognize?
link to original post

Sayin again. It aint a shame endorsing in advertising. It is money just about everybody wants. Doesnt even matter if advertising for multiple competitors. Real shame is when you deny an act that some might consider questionable. Psychologists call it toxic shame. It is much more toxic when you try to cover the tracks (like deleting a page or a link].

I also say again. There aint AI involved in that video. The image and the voice are real. The strongest evidence is lip-synching. AI will never be able to fake lip-synching. AI avoids to show lips because synch can be exposed as fake. And that�s why the FB page was removed. The Smoking gun.
link to original post

This is a very poorly worded post considering that you have no idea how or why the link to the video was deleted. I wonder if you would retract your accusations against Mike until you can provide some actual information instead of your clearly uninformed speculation.

Even if free public AI cannot do lip synch, commercially available AI has much more power. Also, it is easy to take a recording of someone talking and change the words slightly so the lips still seem synched.

I also point out that you implied that I am overstating my AP income even though you have no direct knowledge of my online activities. You claim that nobody believes me, but you have no way of knowing what everyone here believes. Please stick to facts.

�It ain't what you don't know that gets you into trouble. It's what you know for sure that just ain't so.�
link to original post

Yes there is commercially available AI lipsync.

As someone who has an AI project that requires lipsync I can tell you that no commercially available lipsync companies (mostly doing business at this point in Hollywood) will do what you suggest, that is to supply lipsync to an unknown and unwilling artist

They require signed contracts by the person who is being AI modeled that they give EXCLUSIVE PERMISSION to have their voices and lipsync replicated.

BTW this is also true for creating voice models (the accusation that the voice is fake AI of Mike would require the creation of a voice model. The AI would have to be trained specifically on Mike's voice). Even the publicly available voice cloning services, at least the ones I familiar with) require a verification video, that is a short video where the person speaks into the camera phrases that let them know they have permission to clone their voice.

To anyone who thinks this is an AI fake, I suggest you try to use an AI to replicate what you saw. At this point in time, it's not possible.

You will get something. But you won't get what was posted.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

ThomasK

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September 23rd, 2024 at 7:22:31 AM permalink

Quote: seven
Quote: toolyp
Quote: darkoz
Quote: ChumpChange
I still doubt Wizard saw the video. It was on 8-CBS News and everything!

link to original post

Wizard:

You are saying this is not a genuine image of you? That is not a room you recognize?
link to original post

Sayin again. It aint a shame endorsing in advertising. It is money just about everybody wants. Doesnt even matter if advertising for multiple competitors. Real shame is when you deny an act that some might consider questionable. Psychologists call it toxic shame. It is much more toxic when you try to cover the tracks (like deleting a page or a link].

I also say again. There aint AI involved in that video. The image and the voice are real. The strongest evidence is lip-synching. AI will never be able to fake lip-synching. AI avoids to show lips because synch can be exposed as fake. And that�s why the FB page was removed. The Smoking gun.
link to original post

I am confused and maybe my English is not good enough

are you saying that it is real and the Wizard did this ad to earn some $$$

I am still convinced it is a fake!
link to original post

I knew that I had seen this unusual video setup before:

Here two corresponding screenshots:

I guess the video footage was taken from there.
I haven't seen the facebook video but I tend to think that the rest was somehow faked in ...

"When it comes to probability and statistics, intuition is a bad advisor. Don't speculate. Calculate." - a math textbook author (name not recalled)

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 7:48:35 AM permalink

Yes that is the footage indeed.

Below is the specific head movement I mentioned a few pages ago that no AI would currently be able to do properly. (The top frame where Mike is looking skyward. AI would not be able to do that without serious artifacts if at all)

It's definitely the same video I saw in the Facebook.

If someone had that video I could do an actual frame by frame overlay for verification but that is imo the footage.

As for audio, it's definitely Mike's voice based on my knowledge of AI voice cloning. Most likely it clips of his own voice rearranged to sound like it does in the fake.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

ChumpChange

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September 23rd, 2024 at 7:55:06 AM permalink

Or maybe Mike did the promo in question for the app on the exact same day. The video with URComped was posted on October 31, 2018, so it's not recent.

Last edited by: ChumpChange on Sep 23, 2024

prozema

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:00:19 AM permalink

I guess this is the thread to discuss AI capabilities now. Lol

prozema

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:00:20 AM permalink

Duplicate...

billryan

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:01:30 AM permalink

How will AI affect The Walk of St. James?

The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.

ChumpChange

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:03:42 AM permalink

That's probably just an alibi, he's somewhere else.

Here's some lip sync you can try to claim is AI. This song is a dance hit all over TikTok and Instagram. "I just killed a man she's my alibi."
SEVDALIZA - ALIBI FT. PABLLO VITTAR & YSEULT (OFFICIAL MUSIC VIDEO) - 113 million views

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:09:20 AM permalink

Well, in either case, as any lawyer would know, once the evidence has gone missing from the evidence room, all admissibility is out the window.

Without the actual video, no point in trying to prove it's providence with utmost certainty.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

prozema

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:22:18 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Well, in either case, as any lawyer would know, once the evidence has gone missing from the evidence room, all admissibility is out the window.

Without the actual video, no point in trying to prove it's providence with utmost certainty.
link to original post

Are you really saying that you think that's Mike and he is actually saying those words? I mean he kind of said it wasn't him...

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:36:16 AM permalink

Quote: prozema
Quote: darkoz
Well, in either case, as any lawyer would know, once the evidence has gone missing from the evidence room, all admissibility is out the window.

Without the actual video, no point in trying to prove it's providence with utmost certainty.
link to original post

Are you really saying that you think that's Mike and he is actually saying those words? I mean he kind of said it wasn't him...
link to original post

SMH

There seems to be some confusion over this.

That is INDEED Mike.

And I am quite certain he said those "words"

But the ad is fake.

Mike said the actual words I am quite confident but they were probably rearranged.

I am confident NOTHING In the video in question is AI.

There is enough evidence from the post by ThomasK above to show I am correct.

Shocker: Darkoz was correct about AI. (Not really a shocker :)

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

prozema

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:39:37 AM permalink

Lol... Yeah you're right... I'm sure he has said all of those words before... Maybe not in that order but whatevs.

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:43:27 AM permalink

Quote: prozema
Lol... Yeah you're right... I'm sure he has said all of those words before... Maybe not in that order but whatevs.
link to original post

I don't know why you would find that so shocking.

Those types of tricks are old hat.

Much more possible than the AI suggestions made in earlier posts.

At the beginning of this thread people thought the entire image was AI generated. Yet those people were very wrong.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

MDawg

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:55:13 AM permalink

Prozema you are on the right track, he never said those words it's a voice that sounds like him. Also the video is pieced together it is three distinct pieces of a different video.

I've been saying this for some time. You're wasting your time trying to convince D.Oz that he is wrong. He is more than wrong, he is all over the place trying desperately to appear like he said something that was worth hearing at any point.

Quote: MDawg
Quote: MDawg
Quote: darkoz
The audio is real.
link to original post

Wrong.

I don't believe that is Wizard's voice or that he ever said those words. I also don't believe KLAS ever said those words in any actual broadcast.

Quote: MDawg
I have come to the conclusion that it's some video that was taken from elsewhere, with the Caesar's app promo verbiage dubbed in in a voice that sounds like Wizard's, but not quite. Wizard speaks more slowly, less deliberately than the voice in this doctored video.
link to original post

And the video is not quite real. It is three segments of one longer video connected into one.

Even when you try to back yourself out of a corner you just dig yourself in deeper. Just admit you made a mistake and revise your opinion instead of trying to so hard to fit your square peg opinion into the correct round hole.
link to original post

The below is completely wrong by D.Oz as well:

Quote: darkoz
Ultimately there is a legal reason why it's almost certainly real.

I don't see Caesars spending money on ads that can simply be forcibly removed and result in a lawsuit with a simple cease and desist letter and easily obtained litigation
link to original post

link to original post

How or why he said "it's almost certainly real" because he couldn't "see Caesars spending money on ads" is baffling. The whole thing had nothing to do with Caesars.

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 8:59:30 AM permalink

Quote: MDawg
Prozema you are on the right track, he never said those words it's a voice that sounds like him. Also the video is pieced together it is three distinct pieces of a different video.

I've been saying this for some time. You're wasting your time trying to convince D.Oz that he is wrong. He is more than wrong, he is all over the place trying desperately to appear like he said something that was worth hearing at any point.

Quote: MDawg
Quote: MDawg
Quote: darkoz
The audio is real.
link to original post

Wrong.

I don't believe that is Wizard's voice or that he ever said those words. I also don't believe KLAS ever said those words in any actual broadcast.

Quote: MDawg
I have come to the conclusion that it's some video that was taken from elsewhere, with the Caesar's app promo verbiage dubbed in in a voice that sounds like Wizard's, but not quite. Wizard speaks more slowly, less deliberately than the voice in this doctored video.
link to original post

And the video is not quite real. It is three segments of one longer video connected into one.

Even when you try to back yourself out of a corner you just dig yourself in deeper. Just admit you made a mistake and revise your opinion instead of trying to so hard to fit your square peg opinion into the correct round hole.
link to original post

The below is completely wrong by D.Oz as well:

Quote: darkoz
Ultimately there is a legal reason why it's almost certainly real.

I don't see Caesars spending money on ads that can simply be forcibly removed and result in a lawsuit with a simple cease and desist letter and easily obtained litigation
link to original post

link to original post

link to original post

Lol,
Of course lawyers don't know how to process new evidence as it comes along.

Once a statement is made it's sacrosanct and if contrary evidence comes along they have to stick with their incorrect assumptions.

MDawg follows that to the letter like a good lawyer (snicker snicker).

I on the other hand will change my opinion and view in light of new evidence.

But when it comes to AI, as I said I have more knowledge about it's capabilities than most people on this forum (not most people in AI but on this forum yes) and you guys couldn't reproduce what you claim is in that video with AI because that level of technology isn't there yet.

Soon but not yet.

Just face facts for a change, sheesh.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

toolyp

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:15:46 AM permalink

Mental - Well then there are courts of laws dealing with accusations. you better keep for longer the receipts of those millions you won online.

Last edited by: toolyp on Sep 23, 2024

toolyp

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:17:09 AM permalink

Seven up: Yup!

toolyp

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:28:06 AM permalink

Quote:
[snip]
darkoz -
Thank you.

The only disagreement with your post is about AI NEVER being able to do lipsync.

There is a Beta test trial going on and I see AI lipsync being available to the public perhaps in six months.

But right now it's not available.

The real giveaway in my opinion is the different angle taken inside what is most likely Michael's house. NO WAY AI could replicate that. Also the current limitations are ten seconds of generated AI video.

It's definitely not AI and anyone who ACTUALLY works with AI will know that.
link to original post

For the record �
Toolyp aint an AI fake of DarkOz. nor is he the real DarkOz. look how dif the avatars are.

BTW - Can Mike also promote Biden, or Trump, or both? I saw AI videos where each guy sings and plays the guitar. They wont fool anybody� I mean the videos.

Trump & Biden - Sultans of Swing

I wonder if another AI video could fake a Mike riding the bike like Lance Armstrong. Can you work on that AI project, DarkOz?

Last edited by: toolyp on Sep 23, 2024

ChumpChange

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:41:06 AM permalink

AI Music is becoming a YouTube genre
In Da Club (by "Conway Fitty")

toolyp

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:48:38 AM permalink

Quote: DRich
Quote: prozema

I've been on a flight out of Vegas before... Based on the vibe, I'm pretty sure one in five didn't win.

One in five sounds reasonable to me.
link to original post

Now we talkin REAL business for a change. I thought I was very generous with the house edge � just 20%. We talked in the bj thread about the new bj basic strategy coming from France. The casino winnings were 10% which indicates a good measure of the house edge.

Well that means that 9 out of 10 players win; 1 in 10 players is wiped out. I think the logik is correct. The casino on one side; the collective Player on the other side. The casino takes in 10% of Player�s bankroll. Equivalently: Player loses 90% of their bankroll.

Now in that video that I believe was real with a real mike and camera the caption read:
�EVERY 5TH PLAYER WINS AT CAESARS PALACE CASINO�

Which means 2 out of 10 players win; 8 in 10 players are wiped out
Hmm! thats like sayin 80% house edge, no?

What would the REAL Wizard of Vegas have to say about these calculations? Whats his take?

Mental

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:50:35 AM permalink

Quote: toolyp
Mental - Well then there are courts of laws dealing with accusations. you better keep for longer the receipts of those millions you won online.
link to original post

Instead of constantly hijacking threads just so you can talk smack, why don't you start a new thread where you prove that I cannot do what I claim to do?

What is the most that a person can expect to make per year playing online?
How do you know this?
Are you willing to put money behind your accusations?

Gambling is a math contest where the score is tracked in dollars. Try not to get a negative score.

MDawg

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:56:32 AM permalink

Mental might be new to this sort of thing, so I cut him some slack and let him talk. I suggest you do the same toolyp. Or you may look up the posts he made when things weren't going so well for him, to see the flip side of his personality.

Pushing buttons nonstop may cause stir craziness too.

I tell you it�s wonderful to be here, man. I don�t give a damn who wins or loses. It�s just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

toolyp

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September 23rd, 2024 at 9:58:37 AM permalink

Quote: Mental
Quote: toolyp
Mental - Well then there are courts of laws dealing with accusations. you better keep for longer the receipts of those millions you won online.
link to original post
Instead of constantly hijacking threads just so you can talk smack, why don't you start a new thread where you prove that I cannot do what I claim to do?

What is the most that a person can expect to make per year playing online?
How do you know this?
Are you willing to put money behind your accusations?
link to original post

�What accusations if they are truths?� � quoting DarkOz, a legal expert in this forum. He has a tough competitor her � MrDawg (whos also the resident lawyer at Gamblingforums Inc.)

DJTeddyBear

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September 23rd, 2024 at 11:07:26 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
There seems to be some confusion over this.

That is INDEED Mike.

And I am quite certain he said those "words"

But the ad is fake.

Mike said the actual words I am quite confident but they were probably rearranged.

I am confident NOTHING In the video in question is AI.link to original post

Ditto.

As I said earlier, he �apparently� said �Caesar�, not �Caesars�.

Not the kind of mistake any of us or Mike would make, but an easy mistake for a lazy editor.

Maybe we should ask channel 8 if they have it in their archives and/or where they got it.

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ �� Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 11:14:48 AM permalink

Quote: DJTeddyBear
Quote: darkoz
There seems to be some confusion over this.

That is INDEED Mike.

And I am quite certain he said those "words"

But the ad is fake.

Mike said the actual words I am quite confident but they were probably rearranged.

I am confident NOTHING In the video in question is AI.link to original post
Ditto.

As I said earlier, he �apparently� said �Caesar�, not �Caesars�.

Not the kind of mistake any of us or Mike would make, but an easy mistake for a lazy editor.

Maybe we should ask channel 8 if they have it in their archives and/or where they got it.
link to original post

I don't believe channel 8 is part of this.

I believe the video of Ceasars was taken from a channel 8 news report that didn't include Mike. In other words a hobbled from different sources video.

The editors were too lazy to mask the channel 8 logo

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

prozema

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September 23rd, 2024 at 11:17:01 AM permalink

I don't know man... An official statement from channel 8 sounds reasonable to me.

Wizard
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Wizard

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September 23rd, 2024 at 11:33:55 AM permalink

Quote: DJTeddyBear
As I said earlier, he �apparently� said �Caesar�, not �Caesars�.
link to original post

One of my favorite trivia questions for Vegas experts is "True or false -- There is an apostrophe in Caesars Palace?" If they correctly say false, it leads to a follow up of why not? Anyone here know?

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

Gialmere

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September 23rd, 2024 at 11:47:43 AM permalink

Caesars plural, meaning all guests are treated like a Caesar.

And yeah, I learned that from hanging out at this site.

Have you tried 22 tonight? I said 22.

darkoz

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September 23rd, 2024 at 12:41:47 PM permalink

I just finished a Zoom meeting with a lipsync AI company. Will find out soon if I can get in on the Beta testing.

I need to supply a number training datasets which I am not 100%certain I can deliver but I will find out soon enough.

Like I said, lipsync AI isn't at the level everyone thinks it is yet.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

billryan

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September 23rd, 2024 at 1:31:09 PM permalink

Every man is a king.

The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.

billryan

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September 23rd, 2024 at 1:31:53 PM permalink

deleted

The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.

DJTeddyBear

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September 23rd, 2024 at 3:52:00 PM permalink

Quote: Wizard
One of my favorite trivia questions for Vegas experts is "True or false -- There is an apostrophe in Caesars Palace?" If they correctly say false, it leads to a follow up of why not? Anyone here know?
link to original post

Quote: Gialmere
Caesars plural, meaning all guests are treated like a Caesar.

And yeah, I learned that from hanging out at this site.
link to original post

Yeah, I knew that too, but probably from one of the old Vegas info shows that the Travel Chanel would play seemingly on a loop back in the early 2000's. But to expand, no apostrophe at all since it isn't meant to signify possessiveness. I.E. Guests are treated like a Caesar, but they aren't actually a Caesar.

On a related note, I always wondered if, in one particular context, that the apostrophe would be correct.

I.E. In the Hangover line, "Is this the real Caesar's palace? Like, did Caesar live here?" Since he's talking about Caesar, the person, shouldn't it have the apostrophe?

Regardless, I put it in when I created this slide for my screensaver folder.

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ �� Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

toolyp

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September 24th, 2024 at 4:37:36 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Hello. I'm back from 16 days on the Camino de Santiago and 23 days in Europe. I have tried to view the video, but the links to it don't work. However, whatever it is, it's not me.
link to original post

Time for me to draw my conclusions and fold up. The main character in the Vegas King series has spoken. Too short or too cryptic - doesnt matter to me a lot.

1) �It aint me period�

Well then it must be Caesars Palace broke the law. In a brilliant AI move Caesars Palace faked a known gambling personality endorsing the online casino.

In this latest scenario a new thread is in tall order. Since the matter is serious Caesars Palace might intervene as well.

2) �It aint me period�

Will it lead it to season 3? Only AI wiz DarkOz might know the answer�

AI willnever reach the authenticity of the video discussed in this thread. AI always needs gigantic databases. AI cant create authenticity. Ive never been fooled by any AI thing. Yup, AI beats me at chess but I know it aint Bobby Fisher.

Contact at https://www.caesars.com/caesars-palace#0
"For with much sorrow comes no wisdom. Ave Caesar!"

Dieter
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Dieter

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September 24th, 2024 at 5:09:10 AM permalink

With as much disdain as I have for large casino operators, Caesars gets a pass on this one.

I reasonably trust them to spell their own name right.

The page the video was posted on (and possibly the app they seemed to be touting) was spelled "Ceasars". It was NOT a "verified" page.

Hate 'em if you want, but base it on a different reason. I think this was someone else.

May the cards fall in your favor.

darkoz

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September 24th, 2024 at 5:31:05 AM permalink

The footage the "fake" ad comes from has been identified.

It's not AI. Just "Actual" footage re-edited to be in a "Fake" ad,

Audio as well.

For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee

TigerWu

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September 24th, 2024 at 6:13:24 AM permalink

I tried to find the shooting script for The Hangover to see how they spell "Caesars" in that one scene, but all I could find was one of the original drafts which took place at Mandalay Bay.

ChumpChange

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September 24th, 2024 at 9:27:53 AM permalink

We already know Wiz has a long history of dismissing ideas (appeals) sight unseen with no second thoughts, so I think the Wiz is in the wrong about everything in his answer about "it ain't me." His denial seems utterly unsubstantiated. He could have said that looks like me, or expressed an interest in how his video was used in such a fashion, but no, he just rejected everything like it wasn't even Mike responding in the thread. That's more a character flaw than anything else at this point.

As I said before, this footage is almost 6 years old and it looks like real footage albeit edited and maybe a little sibilance was cut-off on one word. I think it's a separate project done on the same date as the URComped video from Oct. 31, 2018 that is promoting this app. Why nobody has noticed this video in 6 years is beyond me, it probably ended up on the cutting room floor somewhere and resurfaced, but it looked like it aired on TV news which airs for only one day, not in a heavy rotation like a commercial.

Shaggy - It Wasn't Me (1999)

Last edited by: ChumpChange on Sep 24, 2024

Wizard
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September 24th, 2024 at 11:30:05 AM permalink

Quote: darkoz
Clearly MDawg is not a lawyer.
link to original post

You have made this same insult many times. 14 days this time.

"For with much wisdom comes much sorrow." -- Ecclesiastes 1:18 (NIV)

DJTeddyBear

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September 24th, 2024 at 11:34:07 AM permalink

Quote: TigerWu
I tried to find the shooting script for The Hangover to see how they spell "Caesars" in that one scene, but all I could find was one of the original drafts which took place at Mandalay Bay.
link to original post

I wouldn�t trust a script as any sort of authority. I really meant, in that specific context, would proper / correct punctuation be to include the apostrophe, and include it before the s? Like I said, he�s taking about one Caesar. IE Julius.

I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ �� Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

prozema

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September 24th, 2024 at 11:45:54 AM permalink

Quote: Wizard
Quote: darkoz
Clearly MDawg is not a lawyer.
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You have made this same insult many times. 14 days this time.
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I got suspended once on the nextdoor app for saying that snakes on a plane was a documentary.

ChumpChange

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September 24th, 2024 at 11:58:21 AM permalink

I haven't seen it and it sounds like it was an AI documentary.

UsernameRemorse

UsernameRemorse

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September 24th, 2024 at 12:24:26 PM permalink

Quote: Gialmere
Caesars plural, meaning all guests are treated like a Caesar.

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If that's the case, the correct spelling should be "Caesars'".

Dieter
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Dieter

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September 24th, 2024 at 12:30:05 PM permalink

Quote: UsernameRemorse
Quote: Gialmere
Caesars plural, meaning all guests are treated like a Caesar.

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If that's the case, the correct spelling should be "Caesars'".
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I had the same thought, but the apostrophe would imply ownership by the Caesars, which is not clear to me.

May the cards fall in your favor.

billryan