Are hybrids worth the extra cost?

Quote: ncfatcat

I started driving for UBER and bought a 2014 Toyota Camry Hybrid. I've put 30,000 miles on it in a year. No problem yet except you have to get an alignment every 20,000 miles and you have to use low rolling resistance tires to keep the mileage up. The gas engine cuts in when you step on the gas or go up a hill so the acceleration and torque are fine. I am currently getting 44 mpg in the city and 42 on the highway, which I consider pretty good considering I usually have 1-4 passengers. The odd thing is that last winter when it got cold my gas mileage went down. I think it's because the gas engine ran more to supply hot water to the heater core. Great technology. There are generator brushes in the front wheels and when you brake or coast you are recharging the battery. Toyota guarantees the battery for 100K mile and battery costs have dropped from $9,000 when hybrids first came out to $1,500 now. So it's basically an engine job every 100K or so.

Gas mileage goes down on all cars in the winter in my experience. Could be the nature of how the engine runs in the cold or could be the winter gas. On the hybrid it also probably kicks the engine on more due to the less efficient batteries.

How has driving for them treated you? I know a few people considering driving for them.

My prius is on the first battery with 230 k miles and still gets 46 mpg. Only expense other than tires and routine maintenance is brakes at 180k miles. Surprisingly spacious interior and more power than the Ford Focus I drove for a little while. Terrible factory speakers though, probably worst I've ever had.

You have to run the gas engine for cabin heat in the winter, so you pay for the normal cost of worse gas mileage in the winter, plus gas for staying warm.

I have 136k on my Prius and it drives just as good as it did when I bought it (with about 35k miles). I get 48 in the summer and 45 in the winter. I also used to drive a Focus also, and the Prius has more power and plenty of torque for changing lanes.

Out of curiosity, I looked at used Prii today and found a 2013 certified with 22k miles for $17k. With low gas prices, it's a great time to buy a used Prius.

I purchased a Toyota Highlander in 2008. At the time I did the calculations to determine the break-even number of miles I would have to drive to make the additional cost of the hybrid model worth it. I don't recall the exact answer but it was much more than I planned to use it or even the likely lifetime of the vehicle (I'll probably sell it at around 100K miles). The price of gas of course plays into it but I think the cost of gas was about the same in 2008 as now.

Based only that vehicle, my answer is no, it isn't worth the extra cost.

As an aside, I purchased my dad's Prius last year. While it is fine in city driving it is slow on long fast highway drives, like LA to Las Vegas. If you like to drive fast, or like 80 MPH or higher, or do a lot of highway driving, I would not get a hybrid.

Quote: Wizard

Based only that vehicle, my answer is no, it isn't worth the extra cost.

I agree. There are almost no situations where the hybrid will save money. In my case, I got a great deal on a used car and I got a substantial state tax credit, which is no longer available.

Quote: Wizard

As an aside, I purchased my dad's Prius last year. While it is fine in city driving it is slow on long fast highway drives, like LA to Las Vegas. If you like to drive fast, or like 80 MPH or higher, or do a lot of highway driving, I would not get a hybrid.

The only driving issue I can think of with my Prius is when I drive through the Eisenhower Tunnel (under the continental divide). The car is an absolute dog by the time you get to the top, and for even 4-5 miles past the other side, since the hybrid battery will be spent. The first time, I thought there was a problem with my car because I had to floor the gas to go 40 mph downhill. It's not a big deal, since I might make that trip 1 or 2 times a year.

Quote: SkittleCar1

I have a 2014 Chevrolet Cruze Eco. It's powered by a 1.4 litre turbocharged four cylinder gasoline engine. It has just about every option except leather and heated seats. The sticker price was $21k. (I work at the dealer, so I paid about $19k.) It has a 12.5 gallon fuel tank. Two weeks ago I drove it on my annual trip to the Indianapolis 500. I drove from Lake Champlain in NY, where I live, to Ohio on one tank of fuel. Then from the east border of Ohio to south Indianapolis, and had a 1/4 tank of gas left. On the way back, I filled up in Indianapolis and drove all the way to Buffalo NY before refueling. Then from Buffalo to my home near Lake Champlain.....on 6 gallons of gas. About 300 miles, and 50 miles per gallon. All this while driving 80mph. So, in my opinion, hybrids are overrated.

I wish there were more options along this route. Turbo toy cars get the same hyper mileage without any of the battery bs, as you've just pointed out. Turbo diesel would be even better. Hell, even proper maintenance and a change in driving habits would likely give a majority of the population a boost.

But it's not about that, is it? =p

Quote: reno

Paco- Do you have any data to back up this statement?

Obviously, Nissan is a biased source, since their goal is to sell Leafs. (Curiously, their own data does not reflect positively on all those Altimas, Maximas, Sentras, Pathfinders, etc they sell!) Nissan insists that their methodology has been endorsed by 2 separate third parties:

I think you misunderstand my statement.

f one region were completely dependent on coal for power, its electric cars would be responsible for full-cycle global-warming emissions equivalent to a car capable of 30 m.p.g. in mixed driving. In a region totally reliant on natural gas, an electric would be equivalent to a 50 m.p.g. gasoline-engine car.NY Times APRIL 13, 2012

I actually don't doubt that Nissan used a fair argument for California.

So we assume an extreme position, that all electric power is generated by natural gas. So even a Chevrolet Cruze Eco ( $18,425 +) has Fuel economy: 28 city and 42 highway mpg. Which is possibly the best numbers you will see in a a midsized sedan .

So in this pure natural gas state 50 mpg beats 28 & 42 . But the Leaf costs more than $10,000 than the Chevy Cruze.

My point is that $10,000 could be used in far more efficient ways to reduce overall carbon footprint than by buying a car. I will try and find a study about the cost of switching 75% of vehicles in the USA to electric.

I have no doubt that electric vehicles will have a very positive effect on some small urban or retirement communities.

If your hybrid saves you 260 gallons per year in gas that is the equivalent of 1000 Watt machine running 24/7. Now most people might have trouble reducing their electric usage by 1000 watts on average, but with a combination of frugality, and the advantage of a few thousand to replace an old washing machine, better refrigerators, motion detectors on light switches, CFL bulbs in utiltarian parts of the house, LED bulbs in fancy portions of the home, better hot water heaters you could come close.

But for most driving patterns it is difficult to save 260 gallons with a hybrid over an economical gasoline engine.

Quote: Face

I wish there were more options along this route. Turbo toy cars get the same hyper mileage without any of the battery bs, as you've just pointed out. Turbo diesel would be even better. Hell, even proper maintenance and a change in driving habits would likely give a majority of the population a boost.

But it's not about that, is it? =p

They do make a Cruze diesel, but it's about $5k more than the Eco. It also only comes with an automatic transmission, which I do not like. Also, you have an exhaust fluid tank you have to fill also. One of our customers reports that he gets 50mpg. And diesel fuel is generally much higher than gasoline in my area.

Hybrids are definitely worth the extra cost.

My Titleist hybrids (3 & 5) cost $199 each. And they're much easier to hit than my old 3 iron ($125), and 4 iron ($125).

I don't get much spin, but that's okay. I can hit them high enough that the ball will land soft on the green.

It's not a hybrid but a second friend of mine just bought a Tesla Model S and they are both happy. There are more charging stations now and it takes about as long as stopping for coffee or the restroom.

Quote: 1BB

It's not a hybrid but a second friend of mine just bought a Tesla Model S and they are both happy. There are more charging stations now and it takes about as long as stopping for coffee or the restroom.

Tesla's IMO have the ability to have real staying power. I think the range on most electric cars is fine as a daily commuter as most people don't drive 80 miles per day, but what about on the weekends when you go visit mom and dad or the kids or anything. An 80 mile range, for me visiting my brother in Oshkosh, WI, would mean I would have to stop and charge in or around Milwaukee coming from Chicago, but a 400 mile range, or more on a charge would allow me to make that drive and the return trip home. The only thing I wouldn't be able to really do is a cross country trip as I don't think there are really enough stations to make it feasible as of yet, but it is something I would like to see at most, if not every major truckstop to make it become more of a reality.

I think Teslas only make sense for people/families with a conventional car. Although this is changing fast. I was pleased to see that the premium on hybrids has gone down and will seriously consider getting one at my next car purchase, which may or may not be 10 years away.

Quote: surrender88s

I think Teslas only make sense for people/families with a conventional car. Although this is changing fast. I was pleased to see that the premium on hybrids has gone down and will seriously consider getting one at my next car purchase, which may or may not be 10 years away.

Tesla's aren't there quite yet as unless you live in California, there aren't nearly enough charging stations to make it a regular commuter, but we are building towards the time when an electric car with a 400 mile range will make sense, however infrastructural changes will need to take place. For instance, you couldn't live in an area where you have to park your car on the street overnight. If you park in your garage, it's easy to charge however. Giving it a 400 mile range which is the average, although slightly on the low end, of the range on a full tank of gas for most cars was a huge obstacle to overcome. The next one will be more infrastructure at rest stops, truck stops, gas stations, dealerships to make using these day to day more feasible

A roadblock is that our country's generation of electricity is dirtier than an efficient car. More fossils fuels are burned per mile for epectric cars. That's an issue for some people.