Why Trumpers? I am truly baffled
Quote: RogerKintYOU made fun of a specific person's skin color.
.
Is that not cool now? I'm always the last to
know about new trends..
No, I reject that characterization for two reasons. One, as I have pointed out previously, there is a big difference between intelligence and education. It is not a matter of opinion, but of statistical sampling, that level of education is positively correlated with supporting Hillary.Quote: RonCDoes that also mean "enough" of the constant barrage of comments about the intelligence level of Trump supporters? I think we are both smart enough to know that there are people with varying levels of intelligence supporting each candidate. The Democrats may not say that they "love" the uneducated and uninformed. but they certainly do love them as much, if not more than, Trump.
From https://morningconsult.com/2016/07/28/poll-educated-voters-favor-clinton-trump/Quote: Morning Consult poll, 7/28/2016Clinton’s biggest lead – 24 points – comes from younger people with a college education. When asked, 54 percent of 18- to 34-year-olds with a college education say they support the Democrat, compared with 30 percent who support Trump.
Trump once said, “I love the poorly educated,” and according to the survey, he has an advantage with voters over the age of 65 who did not attend college, leading Clinton 49 percent to 33 percent.
Now, education level and intelligence level tend to be somewhat correlated, but certainly they are not dependent upon one another. Intelligence is not predicated on going to school. That said, there are some statements that both candidates have made that are pretty stupid, but on the whole Trump has made more of them. One in particular sticks out as dispositive:
Quote: Donald TrumpNobody knows the system better than me, which is why I alone can fix it.
I maintain that someone must be very gullible to believe that Donald Trump either knows "the system" better than anyone else or is the only person who can "fix" it, unless he means "fix" the way a crooked bookmaker means "fix" -- that is, rigging it even further. I believe he could do that because he has a proven record of rigging business deals against his unwary business partners.
But giving him the benefit of the doubt, there are objectively others who know "the system" better than him as judged by any quantitative measure. Look no further than Michael Bloomberg's critique earlier this week, offered by someone who is objectively more successful. Further, to the extent that the system actually needs changing, Trump has shown no experience nor aptitude in bringing about such change. Am I wrong about this -- is there any evidence that Donald Trump has done anything other than manipulate "the system" to provide himself benefits at others' expense? Is there any record of Donald Trump effecting any change in "the system" whatsoever?
Is it a sign of intelligence to trust a man with no experience to do something he's never even tried to do before?
What is to doubt?
Quote: MathExtremistBill Kristol and George Will are no communists
Might as well be. Deeply involved in "neoconservatism" and schemes like the Project for a New American Century. They're certainly not Americans.
Why don't you define American as you're using it?Quote: bobbartopMight as well be. Deeply involved in "neoconservatism" and schemes like the Project for a New American Century. They're certainly not Americans.
Quote: MathExtremistWhy don't you define American as you're using it?
I thought the context of "neocon" was enough. Of course, if you want to say that traitors are also Americans, I guess technically you'd be correct. "Neocon", "PNAC", American traitors. Ok?
Quote: JoeshlabotnikYes, only them stinkin' Liberals (who, I guess, are different from plain old uncapitalized liberals) insult people. Conservatives merely make cogent, thoughtful statements on the race, gender, religion, or disability of people who disagree with them. They NEVER insult anyone who opposes them. Trump, for example, merely performed an entertaining impromptu dance when responding to a critic who had a disability. He didn't intend it to be insulting.
I have read the word 'cogent' way too often in the last year.
Pls pick another word to convey your meaning.
The Two Feathers
Quote: TwoFeathersATLI have read the word 'cogent' way too often in the last year.
Pls pick another word to convey your meaning.
The Two Feathers
I choose "tangent".
But I'm curious - has there been a discussion about Khizr Khan's speech at the DNC, and Trump's horrific response to it yet? If so, could someone point me to it. I'd love to see what the righties are saying...
Tangent. I like that. In the context I was attempting to speak, 'Tangent' works very well. I am going to try, not gone well so far, gonna try to stay out of this virtually meaningless exchange of political viewpoints, and barbs. Don't think many have been influenced to change their opinion. But, Hey, Hey, if NBC can try it every night then maybe everyone here should too.....Quote: bobbartopI choose "tangent".
The country is strong enough to outlast quite a few bad presidents in a row, IMO.
That is quite a statement.
A country set-up by well intentioned individuals that hadn't figured out yet that slavery was bad.
A country set-up by well intentioned individuals that hadn't realized that just landing here on their boats shouldn't allow them to run off the people that were already living here. They were brilliant, and ignorant.
They were brilliant and bigots.
They were brilliant and racist.
Apparently they were just what we needed at the time. I think they meant well.
I forgive them their shortcomings....
He doubled down today and went after the grieving mother. It's all over the Internet, but lest anyone find fault with my choice of references, here's a clip from a Fox News article:Quote: ams288Hi all - I'm on vacation so have had the luck of not having to pay attention to this thread.
But I'm curious - has there been a discussion about Khizr Khan's speech at the DNC, and Trump's horrific response to it yet? If so, could someone point me to it. I'd love to see what the righties are saying...
Quote:Trump, during the ABC interview, also criticized Ghazala Khan, saying: "She had nothing to say. She probably, maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me."
Ghazala Khan has said she didn't speak because she's still overwhelmed by grief and can't even look at photos of her son without crying.
Trump’s comments sparked immediate outrage on social media -- both because they critiqued a mourning mother and because many considered them racist and anti-Muslim.
What kind of a cruel, heartless bastard would throw barbs at the grieving mother of a fallen soldier? More to the point, what kind of candidate for Commander In Chief would do that?
And what kind of a military would allow such a man to command them? There were already rumblings of a military coup if Trump were elected, on the basis of his prior comments about employing torture and willfully committing other war crimes. Today's events will only increase those chances.
I wonder how much the bet was for?
Quote: bigfoot66He was wise to point out that the poor mother was not allowed to speak: not surprising given how Bill Clinton has treated women over the years. He is a Bill Cosby style predator.
You are truly living in the bubble.
She was allowed to speak. However, she is unable to look at a picture of her dead son without crying.
This is (another) disaster for the Trump campaign.
Trump is gonna LOSE.
Can't wait.
Quote: ams288You are truly living in the bubble.
She was allowed to speak. However, she is unable to look at a picture of her dead son without crying.
This is (another) disaster for the Trump campaign.
Trump is gonna LOSE.
Can't wait.
Trump keeps disastering his way up the polls.
Quote: bigfoot66Trump keeps disastering his way up the polls.
The first fully post-DNC poll showed Hillary got a 10 point bounce.
Quote: ams288The first fully post-DNC poll showed Hillary got a 10 point bounce.
Not the point. The point is that I've been hearing from all the "smartest people in the room" types that trump was finished for over a year now based on his comment of the day, but he keeps gaining support. 538 (which I happen to think is not well suited for this election) has him a slight favorite based on the polls, though crooked H is ahead in his other 2 models. Even if your analysis is correct and this comment is a net negative for him (I'm not convinced) it is not at all a "disaster", we won't even remember the whole issue a week from now.
The one after that shows 20 point bounce.
AMS, why do you do this stuff day after day? Do you just want to be posting here? Are you really trying to change hearts and minds?
I don't get serious very often, you may have noticed ;-)
But seriously, WTF?
Are you all over the political forums beating your drum as well?
Or is it your job to simply safe us Gamblin guys and gals and its?
You write well, you are mostly coherent, and you are like the energizer freaking bunny!
What is your motivation?
I started to supply a list you could pick from for answers, decided to just leave it to you.
You have my permission, in advance, to just ignore the questions.
I may be the only member here on the Forums with those questions.
I remain the village idiot designate, by choice.
Just Two Feathers
What is "what do you get when you combine callous hatred with two non sequiturs," Alex?Quote: bigfoot66He was wise to point out that the poor mother was not allowed to speak: not surprising given how Bill Clinton has treated women over the years. He is a Bill Cosby style predator.
Quote: MathExtremistWhat is "what do you get when you combine callous hatred with two non sequiturs," Alex?
I'll take pompous liberals for $1000.
Quote: bigfoot66He was wise to point out that the poor mother was not allowed to speak: not surprising given how Bill Clinton has treated women over the years. He is a Bill Cosby style predator.
Wow. Maybe she's shy. Have you ever spoken to 20000 people live and 10s of millions via tv? Scary. "Allowed"? Ridiculous.
As to the rest, just nonsense looking for a corner of doubt in somebody's mind. Nothing new to the Clintons.
Quote: bigfoot66He was wise to point out that the poor mother was not allowed to speak: not surprising given how Bill Clinton has treated women over the years. He is a Bill Cosby style predator.
Gold star mother not allowed to speak?
She gave an interview to MSNBC
These are Gold Star parents. You may not agree with their politics but they deserve respect for their family making the ultimate sacrifice to insure your freedom.
Quote: RonCDoes that also mean "enough" of the constant barrage of comments about the intelligence level of Trump supporters? I think we are both smart enough to know that there are people with varying levels of intelligence supporting each candidate. The Democrats may not say that they "love" the uneducated and uninformed. but they certainly do love them as much, if not more than, Trump.
Also--why can someone here consistently call Trump the OO? can we call Hillary names regarding her appearance, too?
I for one would be happy to refrain from commenting on Trumpers' lack of education and/or intelligence, given that it's already well known that the uneducated form Trump's core support. I will do that as long as Trumpers (on this forum) stop making silly generalizations about what "THE LIBERALS" do. Of course, both liberals and conservatives are a diverse lot, and there MUST be some intelligent conservatives out there. There must be.
And call Hillary whatever you want. I won't complain, even though lovers of the Orange Orangutan don't like that appellation and have been very disturbed by it.
I am not worried about the intelligence of Trumpers, though. I'm worried about their attitudes. If you approve of Trump, you are tacitly approving his bullying, lying, etc. Truth be told, this election is pointing out something very sad, no matter how it is decided. Somebody like Trump should have about 145 supporters nationwide--the knuckle-dragging crowd. But he has tens of millions of lackeys! This shows that our society is devolving. I had thought we were moving in the direction of tolerance and compassion. But Trump's mean-spirited bully persona is loved by too many folks, it seems, for us to be able to say that.
Quote: beachbumbabs
As to the rest, just nonsense looking for a corner of doubt in somebody's mind. Nothing new to the Clintons.
Nonsense? There is a Wikipedia article dedicated to the many women who have accused Mr. Clinton of sexually inappropriate behavior including rape. Mrs. Clinton herself has said that we ought to believe women who accuse men of rape. Here is a screenshot of the tweet:
http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/11/23/hillary-clinton-rape-victims-deserve-believed/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton_sexual_misconduct_allegations
In what world is it nonsense to hold people accountable to the standards they advocate?
Quote: bigfoot66In what world is it nonsense to hold people accountable to the standards they advocate?
Sure.
Quote:At a campaign stop in Hooksett, New Hampshire, an audience member contrasted Bill Clinton’s alleged sexual offenses with that sentiment.
“Secretary Clinton, you recently came out to say that all rape victims should be believed,” she asked. “But would you say that Juanita Broaddrick, Kathleen Willey and Paula Jones be believed as well?”
“Well, I would say that everyone should be believed at first,” Clinton replied. “Until they are disbelieved based on evidence.” She smiled broadly and moved onto the next question, to applause.
Quote: bigfoot66Also got a link on the poll that shows a 10 point bounce? I'm just looking at the real clear politics polls and I don't see anything near that though I don't closely follow polls.
Trump Reeling As Clinton Gets 10 Point Democratic Convention Bounce And 15 Point Lead
Quote: TwoFeathersATLAnd the next one shows 15 point bounce.
The one after that shows 20 point bounce.
AMS, why do you do this stuff day after day? Do you just want to be posting here? Are you really trying to change hearts and minds?
I don't get serious very often, you may have noticed ;-)
But seriously, WTF?
Are you all over the political forums beating your drum as well?
Or is it your job to simply safe us Gamblin guys and gals and its?
You write well, you are mostly coherent, and you are like the energizer freaking bunny!
What is your motivation?
I started to supply a list you could pick from for answers, decided to just leave it to you.
You have my permission, in advance, to just ignore the questions.
I may be the only member here on the Forums with those questions.
I remain the village idiot designate, by choice.
Just Two Feathers
.....do what stuff day after day? Post in these forums?
What an odd post... I've told you before to block me if you don't like what I have to say.
Quote: rxwineSure.
Crooked Hillary is a liar. It's not enough to just say these women were discredited by quoting her.
I'll take any amount of pomposity over cruelty. It takes a truly heartless bastard to belittle a grieving mother. That's like mocking someone for having cancer, but we already know Trump is fond of mockery:Quote: bigfoot66I'll take pompous liberals for $1000.
Compassionate conservatism is dead, sacrificed in a wayward attempt to prove that intentionally offensive speech is the antidote to political correctness. But go ahead and defend the indefensible.
Quote: MathExtremistI'll take any amount of pomposity over cruelty. It takes a truly heartless bastard to belittle a grieving mother. That's like mocking someone for having cancer, but we already know Trump is fond of mockery:
Compassionate conservatism is dead, sacrificed in a wayward attempt to prove that intentionally offensive speech is the antidote to political correctness. But go ahead and defend the indefensible.
You not only take the pomposity, you dish it out with the best of them. Only a "Heartless bastard" could belittle grieving mother? This from the same guy who has no issue with a Clinton administration that feels half a million dead children is an acceptable price to pay to achieve a foreign policy goal. Why don't you think about your moral priorities and direct your pomposity to the truly evil actions of the government you love so much rather than wasting it on a fat blowhard billionaire.
Edited to add: ME said my posting of this video where a high ranking official said killing 500,000 Iraqi children was "worth it" is nothing more than "antigovernment propaganda"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8
Quote: JoeshlabotnikAZD, that would be extremely stupid. It isn't racist to simply identify the ethnic makeup of an individual or group.
Except when it is when you point out more blacks on welfare, or more illegal immigrants in prison, or most terror caused by muslims. Then all of the sudden we are told it is.
Quote:However, "the standards of those who call Trump a racist" are that he constantly insults individuals and groups on the basis of their race, and advocates for policies that discriminate against people based on their ethnic makeup.
Lets look at the comment again:
Quote:
My son simply points to the Trumpers as his evidence and that well over 90% of the people you see at his rallies are white and predominantly from "hick" states.
Seems pretty much like the kind of comment that makes a liberal scream about racism. Somehow entire states are just not worthy because they do not measure up to liberal standards. Something is wrong because white people like Trump? I will say that I would rather be from one of the so-called "hick states" than San Francisco or Berkley any day.
But seriously, tell the kid he is a racist and needs to get over his hatred for people who do not "look like him." Tell him to quit the hate talk.
Quote:Are you saying that Trump ISN'T a racist???
That is EXACTLY what I am saying. I am saying Trump points out truths and as usual weak-minded liebrals cannot defend their point so they use their go-to charge of "racist."
Quote: bigfoot66Quote: MathExtremistI'll take any amount of pomposity over cruelty. It takes a truly heartless bastard to belittle a grieving mother. That's like mocking someone for having cancer, but we already know Trump is fond of mockery:
Compassionate conservatism is dead, sacrificed in a wayward attempt to prove that intentionally offensive speech is the antidote to political correctness. But go ahead and defend the indefensible.
You not only take the pomposity, you dish it out with the best of them. Only a "Heartless bastard" could belittle grieving mother? This from the same guy who has no issue with a Clinton administration that feels half a million dead children is an acceptable price to pay to achieve a foreign policy goal. Why don't you think about your moral priorities and direct your pomposity to the truly evil actions of the government you love so much rather than wasting it on a fat blowhard billionaire.
Edited to add: ME said my posting of this video where a high ranking official said killing 500,000 Iraqi children was "worth it" is nothing more than "antigovernment propaganda"
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=RM0uvgHKZe8
No issue? Where on earth do you get that? War is hell, and the Iraq disaster was just that. But let's not kid ourselves that you're citing the actual position of the Clinton administration:
In other words, you aren't telling the whole truth. And that's just shamefully dishonest.Quote: MADELEINE ALBRIGHTI have said 5,000 times that I regret it. It was a stupid statement. I never should have made it, and if everybody else that has ever made a statement they regret would stand up, there would be a lot of people standing. I have many, many times said it, and I wish that people would report that I have said it. I wrote it in my book that it was a stupid statement.
But here's the difference: unlike Albright, Trump will never admit he made a mistake. What's worse, you don't think he did either. So, nice try dodging and deflecting, but you failed.
Quote: MathExtremist
No issue? Where on earth do you get that? War is hell, and the Iraq disaster was just that. But let's not kid ourselves that you're citing the actual position of the Clinton administration:
In other words, you aren't telling the whole truth. And that's just shamefully dishonest.
But here's the difference: unlike Albright, Trump will never admit he made a mistake. What's worse, you don't think he did either. So, nice try dodging and deflecting, but you failed.
Your comment here is telling because it makes it look like you quickly googled the statement and do not know the context. War is hell? Yes, but what does that have to do with the statement? She was defending the price of the SANCTIONS that the Clinton administration enforced, this was between the wars (both of which were started by members of the evil Bush family). And of course it was a stupid statement, but can you link to her saying anything like "of course the pile of dead children's corpses wasn't worth it." Even that would frankly be unconvincing and irrelevant. What kind of person hears "half a million dead kids" and, without blinking says "we feel it's worth it". Why are you giving her a pass on having this reaction to such a macabre question? Wouldn't a person of normal morality at least have to pause and take a deep breath on hearing something like this?
There is a concept in law called "statement against interest" and it basically means that if you say something that makes you look guilty it is treated differently by the court. She clearly made a statement against interest here and it needs to taken at face value.
But clearly your priorities lie instead in focusing on what a big meanie trump is.
So Trump leads Hillary by 1% in the "less than college education" grouping. That is well within the margin of error for most polls; you would call it a tie if it was going the other way and Hillary led it by 1%. In the BS/A degree group, she leads by just 5%--very close to the standard margin of error of 3% either way. Hillary leads by a larger percentage among post grad degrees. That is a very small group (8%) which includes many educators...I would expect them to break Liberal.
This poll actually is a very poor one to use to prove a point.
My focus is firmly on the future, not dwelling on things in the past I cannot influence. Albright isn't running for President, Trump is. And Trump (not Albright) just scorned the mother of a dead soldier. I think that's disgusting. You don't.Quote: bigfoot66But clearly your priorities lie instead in focusing on what a big meanie trump is.
It's not proof, it's evidence. The point is not the particular numbers, nor the number of respondents in each bin, but the correlation.Quote: RonCME posted some polling data about the education of voters.
...
This poll actually is a very poor one to use to prove a point.
Based on that poll, plus others I had seen prior, educational level and Hillary support are positively-correlated. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
Quote: MathExtremistMy focus is firmly on the future, not dwelling on things in the past I cannot influence. Albright isn't running for President, Trump is. And Trump (not Albright) just scorned the mother of a dead soldier. I think that's disgusting. You don't.
Yeah, I think it's interesting what things trigger your disgust and what doesn't. Funny how that things done by the party you support are ok but the other sides transgressions are inexcusable.
Quote: RonCME posted some polling data about the education of voters. I hope it is not something that he would hang his hat on as proof; it seems like proof of very little to me...
So Trump leads Hillary by 1% in the "less than college education" grouping. That is well within the margin of error for most polls; you would call it a tie if it was going the other way and Hillary led it by 1%. In the BS/A degree group, she leads by just 5%--very close to the standard margin of error of 3% either way. Hillary leads by a larger percentage among post grad degrees. That is a very small group (8%) which includes many educators...I would expect them to break Liberal.
This poll actually is a very poor one to use to prove a point.
I agree. We should only give credence to polls that show Trump is ahead in the race for Galactic Emperor. Wise man Trump knows that he should only pay attention to the polls he likes. There is a much simpler data set re intelligence of Trumpers. You have to be a complete idiot to NOT be disgusted by him. See? Simplissimo.
Really, RonC, AZDuff, etc., you bleat that Trumpers shouldn't be characterized as knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers, and then you post stuff that makes that conclusion inescapable. (And Ron buddy--there is no need to capitalize "liberal." Or "conservative" for that matter. I guess your Trumper lack of education included not getting remedial English classes--you poor man.) I call hypocrisy, in that if a poll showed Trump ahead by that margin, you would be crowing about it.
Quote: bigfoot66Yeah, I think it's interesting what things trigger your disgust and what doesn't. Funny how that things done by the party you support are ok but the other sides transgressions are inexcusable.
One could easily say the EXACT SAME THING about you, and Trumpers in general. I take it you are not disgusted/offended/appalled by anything Trump has said or done? You give him a free pass on everything? Never mind, don't answer that. It's obvious.
I don't think crippling sanctions that lead to 0.5M kids dying are okay. I don't know where you got that idea, but it's both wrong and inapposite.Quote: bigfoot66Yeah, I think it's interesting what things trigger your disgust and what doesn't. Funny how that things done by the party you support are ok but the other sides transgressions are inexcusable.
Unlike you, I don't play mindless party politics. It's possible to critique the government while still supporting it, or favoring its policies over an alternative. But that may be too subtle a point for someone who thinks Trump is justified in mocking a disabled guy or sneering at a grieving mother.
If Trump shot a cop, would you still vote for him?
Quote: JoeshlabotnikOne could easily say the EXACT SAME THING about you, and Trumpers in general. I take it you are not disgusted/offended/appalled by anything Trump has said or done? You give him a free pass on everything? Never mind, don't answer that. It's obvious.
One could easily day the same thing about me if he had a low IQ or didn't read my writing. I called Trump a fat blowhard less than 3 hours ago in this thread and my tag line is vote for nobody 2016z
Quote: MathExtremistI don't think crippling sanctions that lead to 0.5M kids dying are okay. I don't know where you got that idea, but it's both wrong and inapposite.
Unlike you, I don't play mindless party politics. It's possible to critique the government while still supporting it, or favoring its policies over an alternative. But that may be too subtle a point for someone who thinks Trump is justified in mocking a disabled guy or sneering at a grieving mother.
If Trump shot a cop, would you still vote for him?
I think trump is disgusting and rude. I think it speaks poorly of this country that he will be our next president and I will do everything In my power to oppose him once he is inaugurated.
But I prefer him to Crooked Hillary because I am a single issue guy. That issue? I oppose killing people. Hillary is a huge hawk, and Trump is far from perfect but he seems likely to be more restrained...tough to tell for sure because politicians have a nasty habit of lying. But all things considered he seems to be less of a threat to the innocent people of the rest of the world.
I want to vote for Gary Johnson because he and I are both libertarians but he is not as anti war as I need him to be. I never thought I'd say this but I may well end up voting for that crazy socialist Jill Stein because at least she has a consistent anti war message. I feel that I owe this to the recipients of the freedom bombs that the US government delivers via drone strikes around the world.
People like you drive me up the wall because I don't understand how a bright human being can be so appalled by what is clearly rude behavior but have such a casual attitude towards a pile of dead bodies. It makes me crazy and I will never understand it.
See, now we can have a conversation. For starters, Trump isn't nearly the dove you think he might be. Remember when he said he'd issue kill orders for the wives and children of terrorists? This article is left leaning but the quotes are quotes:Quote: bigfoot66I think trump is disgusting and rude. I think it speaks poorly of this country that he will be our next president and I will do everything In my power to oppose him once he is inaugurated.
But I prefer him to Crooked Hillary because I am a single issue guy. That issue? I oppose killing people. Hillary is a huge hawk, and Trump is far from perfect but he seems likely to be more restrained...tough to tell for sure because politicians have a nasty habit of lying. But all things considered he seems to be less of a threat to the innocent people of the rest of the world.
I want to vote for Gary Johnson because he and I are both libertarians but he is not as anti war as I need him to be. I never thought I'd say this but I may well end up voting for that crazy socialist Jill Stein because at least she has a consistent anti war message. I feel that I owe this to the recipients of the freedom bombs that the US government delivers via drone strikes around the world.
People like you drive me up the wall because I don't understand how a bright human being can be so appalled by what is clearly rude behavior but have such a casual attitude towards a pile of dead bodies. It makes me crazy and I will never understand it.
http://www.vox.com/world/2016/5/27/11608580/donald-trump-foreign-policy-war-iraq-hillary-clinton
If you truly are a single issue voter, and that issue is war, Stein is your only choice. I'm not a single issue voter. I'm picking my pony based on who I think could actually achieve the greatest good for the greatest number of people. War is evil, but it is sometimes a necessary evil. But insulting the parents of those who died in those wars is an unnecessary evil. In my opinion, Hillary is significantly ahead based on my selected criteria, despite her hawkishness. In fact, the financial and tax plans alone get me there - Trump would add $11T to the debt and likely crash the bond market. Remember how he said he'd renegotiate our debt? That's not the way it works. We can agree to disagree on priorities but to me, maintaining the economy is a much bigger deal than avoiding war.
The only time things are racist or inappropriate is if they are vs a minority aparenrently. A black man can call me a cracker or whatever and it will be ignored, but if I call someone the N word everyone would be outraged.Quote: AZDuffmanTell your son that this statement makes him a racist by the standards of those who call Trump a racist.
I don't get it.
IMO if someone calls a person a N***** they should respond "HELL YA, AND PROUD OF IT" Just like I would if someone called me a White Boy or whatever.
Quote: MathExtremistIt's not proof, it's evidence. The point is not the particular numbers, nor the number of respondents in each bin, but the correlation.
Based on that poll, plus others I had seen prior, educational level and Hillary support are positively-correlated. Do you have any evidence to the contrary?
Huh. I'd say this poll, by the same folks, pretty much shows that Trump has more support among higher earners than Clinton supporters. Education and a good work ethic are two things that help a person earn more money.
I don't take this poll as gospel, either...
Quote: JoeshlabotnikI agree. We should only give credence to polls that show Trump is ahead in the race for Galactic Emperor. Wise man Trump knows that he should only pay attention to the polls he likes. There is a much simpler data set re intelligence of Trumpers. You have to be a complete idiot to NOT be disgusted by him. See? Simplissimo.
Really, RonC, AZDuff, etc., you bleat that Trumpers shouldn't be characterized as knuckle-dragging mouth-breathers, and then you post stuff that makes that conclusion inescapable. (And Ron buddy--there is no need to capitalize "liberal." Or "conservative" for that matter. I guess your Trumper lack of education included not getting remedial English classes--you poor man.) I call hypocrisy, in that if a poll showed Trump ahead by that margin, you would be crowing about it.
Did I say that? I just stated that the poll was a poor one to use to prove the point.
I feel sad for you that, unlike people like ME and many others here (heck, almost all others here), you have decided to use the personal insult thing as a way to make an argument about something that I didn't even say was not "right"--just that it was not the best poll to prove a point. I posted another poll that shows Hillary is favored by the low income voters. Education and income do have a relationship. It doesn't disprove ME's original poll, but it does look at it another way.
I would also say that is kind of funny when people that consistently insult other people are concerned about Trump insulting people. Perhaps it would be a much better use of those higher educations just to identify him by name--Donald, Trump, Donald Trump, Mr. Trump--and make your point...and those points are often valid. You can see what happens when you do that--Trump at least partially helped the DNC get past the email issue by making a joke out of it. Had he just stuck to the emails, he would have been better off. He helped them with their "out".
I don't really need your help with grammar. I am pretty sure no one else really wants it either.
...and I am in no way saying that either poll is definitive on either subject...other "evidence" may make a gap clearer. My point to ME was that it wasn't a strong poll to hang your hat on.
I don't either, but I hope you're not suggesting that the larger demographic point is inaccurate. That's not the only polling data that's out there, not by a long shot:Quote: RonC
Huh. I'd say this poll, by the same folks, pretty much shows that Trump has more support among higher earners than Clinton supporters. Education and a good work ethic are two things that help a person earn more money.
I don't take this poll as gospel, either...
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/07/26/upshot/the-one-demographic-that-is-hurting-hillary-clinton.html?_r=0
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/05/an-election-in-negative/483905/
http://www.people-press.org/2016/07/07/2-voter-general-election-preferences/
From the latter link:
Quote: Pew ResearchAmong white voters, there is a clear divide in support by level of educational attainment. White voters with a college degree support Clinton over Trump by a 52%-40% margin. Views are the reverse among white voters without a college degree: 57% support Trump, compared with 36% who support Clinton.
...
Clinton is also running significantly better among those with college degree at this stage of the campaign than Obama was in 2012 and 2008.
Quote: RonC
...and I am in no way saying that either poll is definitive on either subject...other "evidence" may make a gap clearer. My point to ME was that it wasn't a strong poll to hang your hat on.
Perhaps I should give you the benefit of the doubt, that you actually are being objective when you dismiss a poll that shows your hero not doing so well. It's just that your posts so far on this thread have shown you to be anything but objective, a rabid Trumper who gives the OO a free pass on even the most heinous things he says. So have you mutated into someone who is actually objective? I would welcome that. It's just that the poll--and others coming out recently, by the way, show Clinton opening up a significant lead--and Trump and Trumpers were crowing about polls earlier this year that showed him ahead of Clinton. So the message I was getting from you is: polls don't really mean anything if they show that my hero may not get to be emperor after all.
Really, you and other Trumpers need to suck it up and answer this question: do you support the OO and all the awful things he says? Because you can't, y'know, support him without also endorsing all his attacks and insults. If you are a true Trumper, you must think that encouraging espionage against the US and attacking and insulting the parents of a soldier killed in action, to name only the most recent of dozens of horrible statements, are PERFECTLY OK. So put up or shut up: you can't echo your hero and whine about "Crooked Hillary" and ignore the OO's moral transgressions. If you support him and defend him against his critics, then you are forfeiting your morality. (Or, perhaps, adhering to it precisely--what a thought.)
