Cash changing hands

I'm doing research on the amount of money that passes from the guests to the houses each year and I'm trying to find a list of locations where actual cash passes from the guest to the house. I know it can pass at the tables and at the teller cage but I'm not sure where else it can happen. I'm not interested in charge cards or other forms of payment.

Any suggestions would be appreciated.

It depends on how you wish for it to be calculated. Some questions that arise to me from the question you pose as follows

1) What transactions count? Is it only person to person like a person exchanging cash for chips at a blackjack, craps, roulette table
2) Do deposits into a video poker or slot machine count
3) How do you calculate transactions at the cage i.e. if someone buys in at a table for $500 and cashes out $750 is that viewed as $1250 changing hands or as a $250 loss for the casino?
4) How do you calculate transactions like markers and front money. Is there a difference since a marker is a LOC that needs to be repaid, but front money is a withdrawal from an account that is backed by cash.
5) Is your goal merely finding out how much cash changes hands or are you trying to find how much a casino profits or perhaps loses on a particular day

Quote: Gabes22

3) How do you calculate transactions at the cage i.e. if someone buys in at a table for $500 and cashes out $750 is that viewed as $1250 changing hands or as a $250 loss for the casino?

Based upon the wording of the OP, I'd say that's $500.

But it's an interesting question. I, too, would be curious to know how much it is...

If you are talking only physical currency, aside from at a table or the cage, the only place I can think of is inserting a bill into a slot/VP/video table game machine, as Gabes22 mentioned.

There are also bill changers/breakers where the customer inserts a large bill, and gets smaller bills of equal total value. Technically, the customer is "passing cash to the house" in this transaction (and getting an equal amount in return). Though, I don't know if this would be the type of transaction that you would be interested in for your study.

Tips to house employees are occasionally done in cash as well. Not sure if tipping your cocktail waitress counts as "passing cash to the house" for your purposes, but it is a cash transaction from the customer.

Are you also counting cash transactions at restaurants/bars/hotels/gift shops in the casino?

The sports book, keno runners and poker room also accept cash from players separate from the main cage or table games. Some poker rooms will not allow players to buy chips from the dealer, so a runner with a cart full of racked chips rolls around to handle those transactions. Bingo rooms also have separate transaction counters.

Old school coin dropper joints may have separate cages just for coin and token exchange. High limit rooms may have a separate area or change person for players to purchase high denomination slot tokens.

I'm interested in folding money only. I'm writing a mystery about a dealer who's a magician. It occurred to me that it would be possible through sleight of hand to palm cash, keeping it out of the box and passing it off later to a partner.. Years ago everything was cash but now with cards of all types it's probably harder to do. Where are the places that cash still passes hands?

Can people use debit cards at the table games yet?

I'm curious about the folding money. If someone comes to a table and buys $50 in chips with cash, the bills aren't set out on the table. $30 could go into the box and $20 could go somewhere else. If the house wanted that to happen (thinking tax time) there aren't any measures to prevent it.

Quote: Tom49

I'm curious about the folding money. If someone comes to a table and buys $50 in chips with cash, the bills aren't set out on the table. $30 could go into the box and $20 could go somewhere else. If the house wanted that to happen (thinking tax time) there aren't any measures to prevent it.

I do not understand that post, I am not sayin' it's incorrect. I am sayin' it doesn't match my rather fuzzy recollection of how my cash was was handled. Too much cash, too many times (sigh)..;-)

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

I do not understand that post, I am not sayin' it's incorrect. I am sayin' it doesn't match my rather fuzzy recollection of how my cash was was handled. Too much cash, too many times (sigh)..;-)

I don't either. I would think that would go against every procedure out there. I mean every time I buy-in at a table, the dealer has to say "changing $50" or "Changing $500" or something along those lines. the pit boss, has to mark that down, the cash must be laid on the table for the eye in the sky to see all the bill and I would think there are enough checks and balances that more than one set of eyes knows specifically knows what should be in the till, and if those don't line up when the dealer balances his sheet at the end of the night, that there will be some questions asked.

Quote: Gabes22

I don't either. I would think that would go against every procedure out there. I mean every time I buy-in at a table, the dealer has to say "changing $50" or "Changing $500" or something along those lines. the pit boss, has to mark that down, the cash must be laid on the table for the eye in the sky to see all the bill and I would think there are enough checks and balances that more than one set of eyes knows specifically knows what should be in the till, and if those don't line up when the dealer balances his sheet at the end of the night, that there will be some questions asked.

That's what I was trying to say, you just said it better.
Cheers to you!

There are members here that could elaborate, from a professional viewpoint, far beyond the rants and fuzzy remembrances of a slightly intoxicated recreational table player. But let me state, I think they watch the money pretty closely ,-)

Quote: Tom49

I'm curious about the folding money. If someone comes to a table and buys $50 in chips with cash, the bills aren't set out on the table. $30 could go into the box and $20 could go somewhere else. If the house wanted that to happen (thinking tax time) there aren't any measures to prevent it.

This doesn't happen. There are strict rules and regulations regarding the placement and handling of bills. Any collusion in regards to slight of hand motions to hide bills, would have to involve additional pit staff, and surveillance.

While house rules may vary slightly, from place to place, the basis on how money is handled is pretty commonplace.

Perhaps your story could involve chips instead of cash? Magician's gaffs have already been used in real life to make stacks of chips appear to be present when they were actually not there.

Quote: Dodsferd

This doesn't happen. There are strict rules and regulations regarding the placement and handling of bills. Any collusion in regards to slight of hand motions to hide bills, would have to involve additional pit staff, and surveillance.

While house rules may vary slightly, from place to place, the basis on how money is handled is pretty commonplace.

There's Dodsferd, Hi man. I had you mentioned specifically in an earlier draft in this thread a bit ago, and then something came up, and when I came back my response was gone. Started over and didn't mention any names. Time of day and day of week where I get interrupted here a bunch, so I made it quick the 2nd time around.....
And there you are. I may like you after all (joke, seriously, just joke ;-)

Hell, that didn't look good in print. I mentioned Dodsferd in a draft that disappeared. I reposted. Dodsferd had already chimed in ( we may have telepathic connection ). I got no problem with Dodsferd, that's what I was trying to say.

Still not right, I give up, figure it out on your own.....

Nice to see you, Dods! :)

When the dealer is taking cash, they have to

1. lay the bills out individually, overlapped diagonally or end-on. All bills turned the same way. All denominations start a new diagonal row. Reaching a certain number of bills of the same denom, start a new row.
1a. use the counterfeit pen to check the paper.
2. lay out chips right beside them to match.
3. verify the matching amount via floor/pb.
4. butt the bills together in their rows using the edges of their hands, hands flat, (not curled where they can hold money).
5. take each row of bills by the close (short) edge and stack it on the next until they have one stack, keeping the stack flat to the table.
6. still keeping the stack flat, they grab it by the near short edge and lay it flat on the box, holding it there.
7. with the other hand they take the clear paddle and push from the middle into the slot, only then allowing the cash to fold around the paddle, keeping the hand that was holding the cash open as soon as the end begins to rise in folding. (The paddle is clear so no money can be hidden behind it as it slides down, and they -whoever is watching- can see that none stuck to it as it comes back up.)
8. immediately dust and show open hands back and front.
9. push chip stacks to player.

Their hands and arms never block the money from the camera above. Most places do not allow dealers to accept folded money, or money directly passed; it must be laid flat open on the felt, then they will pick it up from the edge so the camera can see it all the time. IF they do anything in their motions that hides the money for even an instant, they get corrected, even written up or retrained. Some places don't worry about a folded single bill being touched, but several they insist you lay it flat before they can touch it.

So, not impossible, but they do safeguard against palming bills by insisting on this or a very similar procedure as habit.

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

There's Dodsferd, Hi man.

Hiya 2F, hope you're keeping well.

Quote: beachbumbabs

Nice to see you, Dods! :)

When the dealer is taking cash, they have to
[snip]

Thanks BBB.

In addition to what you've described above, the drop and hold of each table is kept track of by the pit staff, as well as entered into CasinoTrack software to calculate the total numbers for the gaming day. These numbers also will show any clerical or other errors. While an error once in a while may get by due to user input, any regularity or consistency with errors will merit investigation.