Why don't all these intelligent little green men out there ever visit? (split-off)
Quote: renoEarth is the only place in the universe with intelligent life.
?
Quote: odiousgambit?
Sarcasm.
Out of trillions of planets, the probability that Earth is the only one with intelligent life is extraordinarily low.
A better argument against the existence of extraterrestrial UFOs is that the physical distance between planets (measured in millions of light years) prevents aliens from a distant part of the universe from visiting Earth. Even that argument has its flaws, but at least it's rational.
Quote: renoSarcasm.
Out of trillions of planets, the probability that Earth is the only one with intelligent life is extraordinarily low.
A better argument against the existence of extraterrestrial UFOs is that the physical distance between planets (measured in millions of light years) prevents aliens from a distant part of the universe from visiting Earth. Even that argument has its flaws, but at least it's rational.
how sweet would it be if we discover aliens in our lifetime? OK, probable in the extreme it's not intelligent life, and unlikely perhaps at all odds, but we have a shot, it may be up to the Russkies and things aren't going well with them these days.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europa_Jupiter_System_Mission_%E2%80%93_Laplace
Quote: renoOut of trillions of planets, the probability that Earth is the only one with intelligent life is extraordinarily low.
Why is it that none of them seem to have found us?
Last week while clearing some yard debris I came across a small anthill at the edge of my property. Are they aware they've been found? They are tiny little ants that I wouldn't have noticed if I didn't happen to kneel down to dig up a weed. I left them alone, since the little critters are way at the back, and don't annoy me. For now.Quote: WizardWhy is it that none of them seem to have found us?
Quote: DrawingDeadLast week while clearing some yard debris I came across a small anthill at the edge of my property. Are they aware they've been found? They are tiny little ants that I wouldn't have noticed if I didn't happen to kneel down to dig up a weed. I left them alone, since the little critters are way at the back, and don't annoy me. For now.
They will be aware they've been found when I pour moulten aluminum down their hole.
Quote: WizardWhy is it that none of them seem to have found us?
"why havent we found them?" is also being asked. A lot of effort going into searching for signals.
my own theory is that the universe is such a dangerous place that intelligent life keeps getting wiped out.
Quote: WizardThey will be aware they've been found when I pour moulten aluminum down their hole...
I guess if E.T. is gonna do something with your hole, a probe is not the worse thing in the universe... hehe
That is a cool sculpture, but what happens when the entombed ant carcasses start to rot?
Or they wipe themselves out... just like we probably will.Quote: odiousgambit"why havent we found them?" is also being asked. A lot of effort going into searching for signals.
my own theory is that the universe is such a dangerous place that intelligent life keeps getting wiped out.
Quote: WizardQuote: renoOut of trillions of planets, the probability that Earth is the only one with intelligent life is extraordinarily low.
Why is it that none of them seem to have found us?
We only have started sending out Radio and Microwaves the past hundred years. Flight was achieved About a hundred years ago as well. Our telephone call isn't that far out yet.
We also need to take into account that empires may have risen and fell thousands of years ago. Our recorded history goes back what, 10,000 years roughly? We're mere infants in the grand scheme of it all.
I think we're what's called a type zero civilization for this reason. Basically we can only harness power from our own planet. From there it's consuming entire planets, then stars, then galaxies, then entire other universes. EACH must handle the responsibility without intentionally or accidentally wiping themselves out. The time delay of the stars and our observable universe must make knowing this happening impossibleQuote: odiousgambit"why havent we found them?" is also being asked. A lot of effort going into searching for signals.
my own theory is that the universe is such a dangerous place that intelligent life keeps getting wiped out.
To bring Spock up, a species like that, how they wouldn't see the logic they have no real reason to do anything, then cut it all short. This is the tricky thing to understand, perfection is futile and the imperfections of your species makes it successful. The imperfections also can ruin the survival, so you cannot logically plan your success.
I think I basically formed these ideas from watching Star Gate. So assume somehow, all the right things happened. They're here, we have nothing to offer them, they don't want to give because we need to do for ourselves, and the possibility remains, they're such ahead of us, they don't consider us intelligent. Maybe some code of conduct binds them to wait until the last hold-out not obliterated yet of our galaxy, so they're casing our planet and galaxy to be ready to inherit what they want when we're gone.
Here's my 2 cents: The problem with cluttering the site with too many split off threads is that it makes the conversation more complicated to follow because now members have to toggle back & forth between multiple threads to keep track of who said what on UFOs. And now we have multiple threads about UFOs, which is probably not merited, though Leonard Nimoy's death probably deserves an exception. (Multiple threads about the honorable Dennis Kucinich would be even less merited.) For the sake of simplicity & user-friendliness, let the threads maintain continuity, and use the split-off feature very very sparingly.
I suppose the next step is to have a split-off thread to debate the pros & cons of split-off threads, and a split-off thread from that split-off thread with a poll on split-off threads.
Quote: reno-snip -
A better argument against the existence of extraterrestrial UFOs is that the physical distance between planets (measured in millions of light years) prevents aliens from a distant part of the universe from visiting Earth. Even that argument has its flaws, but at least it's rational.
Quote: BoulderDamItWe only have started sending out Radio and Microwaves the past hundred years. Flight was achieved About a hundred years ago as well. Our telephone call isn't that far out yet.
We also need to take into account that empires may have risen and fell thousands of years ago. Our recorded history goes back what, 10,000 years roughly? We're mere infants in the grand scheme of it all.
This discussion brings back memories. The 2 quotes above are both solid reasons another intelligent civilization has not been found (seen/heard/noticed) yet....
The vast distances and the chances of 2 intelligent civilizations existing at the same time are 2 issues, but there are other reasons. The "Drake Equation" was developed about the subject and it is quite interesting IMO.
Dennis Kucinich quite possibly is half elf. If you watch Lord of the Rings, you can see how a man would want a female elf to mate with, but what would an elf want with a man. Therefore his father would have to be an elf with some kind of substance problem and a beastiality fetish. Can Dennis have kids, or is it a mule thing where he is sterile? Split this baby off, can you have a long lasting relationship with an Elvish broad or not?Quote: renoWhy was it necessary to split this thread off from the Dennis Kucinich UFO thread?
Here's my 2 cents: The problem with cluttering the site with too many split off threads is that it makes the conversation more complicated to follow because now members have to toggle back & forth between multiple threads to keep track of who said what on UFOs. And now we have multiple threads about UFOs, which is probably not merited, though Leonard Nimoy's death probably deserves an exception. (Multiple threads about the honorable Dennis Kucinich would be even less merited.) For the sake of simplicity & user-friendliness, let the threads maintain continuity, and use the split-off feature very very sparingly.
I suppose the next step is to have a split-off thread to debate the pros & cons of split-off threads, and a split-off thread from that split-off thread with a poll on split-off threads.
Quote: onenickelmiracleDennis Kucinich quite possibly is half elf. If you watch Lord of the Rings, you can see how a man would want a female elf to mate with, but what would an elf want with a man. Therefore his father would have to be an elf with some kind of substance problem and a beastiality fetish. Can Dennis have kids, or is it a mule thing where he is sterile? Split this baby off, can you have a long lasting relationship with an Elvish broad or not?Quote: renoWhy was it necessary to split this thread off from the Dennis Kucinich UFO thread?
Here's my 2 cents: The problem with cluttering the site with too many split off threads is that it makes the conversation more complicated to follow because now members have to toggle back & forth between multiple threads to keep track of who said what on UFOs. And now we have multiple threads about UFOs, which is probably not merited, though Leonard Nimoy's death probably deserves an exception. (Multiple threads about the honorable Dennis Kucinich would be even less merited.) For the sake of simplicity & user-friendliness, let the threads maintain continuity, and use the split-off feature very very sparingly.
I suppose the next step is to have a split-off thread to debate the pros & cons of split-off threads, and a split-off thread from that split-off thread with a poll on split-off threads.
For what it's worth, Will Ferrell heard that Dennis Kucinich's father didn't make Master Tinker until he was 490.
Methinks the wisdom of this might depend on the disposition of the being whose yard or attic we infest. If it has the same attitude as mine toward insects, it may be a good idea for us to just STFU, lest it decide to stop procrastinating about that little errand out to the tool shed.Quote: BoulderDamItWe only have started sending out Radio and Microwaves the past hundred years.
When noticed, we will be viewed like a litter of cute cuddly little kittens, and be given a saucer of milk: +110
We will resemble a patch of unsightly fungus in the grout of the the bathroom tile, and be disinfected: -105
And also in this morning's New York Times, the newspaper describes a 2 week period in November 2004 where the U.S. Navy was monitoring a series of UFO incidents in the Pacific Ocean, off the coast of San Diego. At one point, the Navy sent two F/A-18F Super Hornets to attempt to chase the UFO, but the Hornets couldn't keep up: the strange aircraft were able to fly 60 miles in less than 1 minute. The UFOs would go as high as 80,000 feet then dive into the ocean water. These aircraft had no wings, no rotors, no plumes. Surprisingly, the Navy pilots agreed to go on the record with the New York Times, and the Pentagon has released video footage of the incident.
You have to love all this grainy black and white video footage.Quote: renoThis morning's New York Times has quite a bombshell story about the Pentagon's UFO office that existed from 2007 to 2012 and supposedly no longer exists (but apparently it still does). The office is funding a warehouse in Las Vegas where strange metals from UFO crash sites are collected and analyzed.
And also in this morning's New York Times, the newspaper describes a 2 week period in November 2004 where the U.S. Navy was monitoring a series of UFO incidents in the Pacific Ocean, off the coast of San Diego. At one point, the Navy sent two F/A-18F Super Hornets to attempt to chase the UFO, but the Hornets couldn't keep up: the strange aircraft were able to fly 60 miles in less than 1 minute. The UFOs would go as high as 80,000 feet then dive into the ocean water. These aircraft had no wings, no rotors, no plumes. Surprisingly, the Navy pilots agreed to go on the record with the New York Times, and the Pentagon has released video footage of the incident.
I wouldn't call it a bombshell story, unless by bombshell you mean there's a bunch of money being tossed around at these programs and nothing of any real substance comes out of it.
Quote: WizardQuote: renoOut of trillions of planets, the probability that Earth is the only one with intelligent life is extraordinarily low.
Why is it that none of them seem to have found us?
- Maybe they have, and don't really have any interest in stupid bi-peds who kill eachother over imaginary gods.
- They are out there, but with the sheer scale of the universe, finding us would be like finding a single, particular grain of sand on earth.
- Long distance space travel is more difficult than we can even theorize, or impossible.
- They adhere to the prime directive, like in Star Trek.
- We are just someone's simulation
I think any of those options are more likely than other intelligent life not existing.
Quote: AxelWolfYou have to love all this grainy black and white video footage.
Maybe they should hire A.M. and send him out at 3am. I hear he gets great pictures at that hour!
The usual modifier, "intelligent", does not apply to humans killing the only planet they have, compared to aliens who can navigate here on holiday.
Quote: beachbumbabsThere is no way we're the only life in the universe.
The usual modifier, "intelligent", does not apply to humans killing the only planet they have, compared to aliens who can navigate here on holiday.
I Imagine that if anything has the technology to navigate the universe, explaining it to humans would be like trying to teach a dog calculus.
Quote: MintyWhen I took an astronomy class a few years ago, we actually learned a formula to calculate the probability of intelligent life. I wish I had that book with me. Anyway, the time it would take for them to get here would take at least a few years, and likely more just because of the vast distances involved.
I think you're thinking of the Drake Equation that keeneone mentioned earlier in the thread.
Quote: gamerfreakQuote: WizardQuote: renoOut of trillions of planets, the probability that Earth is the only one with intelligent life is extraordinarily low.
Why is it that none of them seem to have found us?
- Maybe they have, and don't really have any interest in stupid bi-peds who kill eachother over imaginary gods.
- They are out there, but with the sheer scale of the universe, finding us would be like finding a single, particular grain of sand on earth.
- Long distance space travel is more difficult than we can even theorize, or impossible.
- They adhere to the prime directive, like in Star Trek.
- We are just someone's simulation
I think any of those options are more likely than other intelligent life not existing.
I think it's a combination of "we're a grain of sand" and "long distance space travel is difficult." Also, we are not taking into account the possibility of life in galaxies that are so far away that we don't know they exist because even the light from their stars has not reached Earth yet.
A couple of other theories:
Not only have we been visited by intelligent life from elsewhere, but they are still here; it's just that their life is of a form that we cannot detect.
"Somebody has to be first."
I really doubt a creature can improve itself or it's offspring by simply choice. Whatever blind spots in wisdom will be amplifiedm. Plus you have the elite wanting others to be less than them, they'll sabotage the rest so they'll have the edge and for the offspring.
Yet somehow, somewhere, it must work out for some creatures. I really after thinking about this the last few years, have trouble considering them life, because odds are they are manufactured somewhat, these things aren't procreating, aren't choosing what they do, they're most likely biological robots essentially. Their existence s no longer by random chance, their genetics not random, their thoughts preordained, etc.
I'm surprised at how under reported the story actually is by media. Many outlets seem too jittery to report the story without lampooning it.
Quote: ThatDonGuy
I think it's a combination of "we're a grain of sand" and "long distance space travel is difficult." Also, we are not taking into account the possibility of life in galaxies that are so far away that we don't know they exist because even the light from their stars has not reached Earth yet.
A couple of other theories:
Not only have we been visited by intelligent life from elsewhere, but they are still here; it's just that their life is of a form that we cannot detect.
"Somebody has to be first."
And last. We think that they think like us. But, perhaps, the answer isn't about technological advancement. What if we have the "power" already, and refuse to acknowledge it?
I think that the only bet to be won here is that there is no one else, except the ants and other animals.Quote: KeyserThe recent bomb shell video and testimony by pilots is quite compelling.
I believe the objects are merely drones. Possibly domestic, but likely not. I don't believe that there's any "life" inside of them. To me it seems pointless to send life on such a dangerous mission across the cosmos. If a race is sophisticated enough to travel far across galaxies, then they're likely capable of uploading they're consciousness/ transcendence to their machines from far away. It's the ultimate way of exploring the universe without risking life. It's how I believe we will travel and one day colonize distant planets in the future. Send the drones, find a habitat, engineer life, and then upload when safe.
Eyewitness accounts from very credible military and civilian pilots have been around for decades, and we've seen similar videos to this one before.
Don't get me wrong, I love this stuff, and I hope it's something extraterrestrial, but this just seems like more of the same with nothing new to add.
Quote: TigerWuI'm honestly not sure what all the hype is about this latest video and testimony.
Eyewitness accounts from very credible military and civilian pilots have been around for decades, and we've seen similar videos to this one before.
Don't get me wrong, I love this stuff, and I hope it's something extraterrestrial, but this just seems like more of the same with nothing new to add.
It's about this bomb shell video released by the Dept of Defense. http://www.cnn.com/videos/world/2017/12/19/ufo-department-of-defense-orig-lon-ak.cnn It's the video source, who saw it, the description, the radar, and the details surrounding it that make it so interesting. It's also the fact that the gov. admitted to funding a program to keep tabs on UFOs. It's also amazing because it's not a Trump story.
It seems as though we're leading up to a bigger release of Intel about UFOs from the gov.
Aliens might have the same problems of space travel humans anticipate, but have managed to successfully employ smart technology.
Quote: KeyserWell some experts would appear to disagree with you. What makes the bomb shell videos so compelling is that they're from people trained to look at the skies and the motion of objects within in it. They're not lay people, they're military in the air and on the ground in many cases. They're tracked by video and radar.
I believe the objects are merely drones. Possibly domestic, but likely not. I don't believe that there's any "life" inside of them. To me it seems pointless to send life on such a dangerous mission across the cosmos. If a race is sophisticated enough to travel far across galaxies, then they're likely capable of uploading they're consciousness/ transcendence to their machines from far away. It's the ultimate way of exploring the universe without risking life. It's how I believe we will travel and one day colonize distant planets in the future. Send the drones, find a habitat, engineer life, and then upload when safe.
Well, thank you for explaining that a bit further.
As far as exploration goes, hasn't that always ultimately been to exploit what/whoever is found? And, were quantum teleportation achieved outside a laboratory with more than an atom, would there be any more need or want to know about the edge of the universe? I doubt that the point of life is to be everywhere. Only a God could be everywhere. And content enough to stay at home.
http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/a14456936/that-time-the-us-navy-had-a-close-encounter-with-a-ufo/
Quote: KeyserWhat makes the bomb shell videos so compelling is that they're from people trained to look at the skies and the motion of objects within in it. They're not lay people, they're military in the air and on the ground in many cases.
The NY Times account of the 2004 San Diego incident is good, but if anyone is interested in a more detailed version written by a pilot with a military background, this article is even better.
Quote: KeyserTo me it seems pointless to send life on such a dangerous mission across the cosmos. If a race is sophisticated enough to travel far across galaxies, then they're likely capable of uploading they're consciousness/ transcendence to their machines from far away.
When Spielberg made Close Encounters of the Third Kind, he brought on Jacques Vallee as an adviser to the film. Vallee tried to persuade Spielberg that UFOs aren't spaceships traveling from a distant planet. Vallee believes they're from a different dimension. To the layman, the idea of a parallel universe in a different dimension sounds absurd. But to physicists, the theory isn't very radical.
Needless to say, Spielberg wasn't impressed by Vallee's arguments and he made a movie about extraterrestrial aliens.
I'm perplexed as to why Sciam, Discover, and Nature haven't weighed in on the recent video and story. I regularly read all three and I suspect that it probably has to do with the layer of smug arrogance that surrounds them.
If the whole thing is a hoax, it's a pretty darn good one considering the number of people and various things detecting events separately.
I'm interested in debunking it if possible. Someone will need to explain how it was accomplished as a whole though. You could certainly get two pilots to lie and tell a tall tale. But the ship detection also needs collusion as well as instrument panel video, and of course any other pertinent record keeping.
What's also fascinating is the response by the general public to the videos released by the Department of Defense. Most don't really care as they're too wrapped up in their Facebook/Snapchat realm of narcissism. It's bizarre. Back in the 1970s/1980s/1990s this would have been a much bigger story. After all, this is the gov releasing videos and saying, "Yep, we've collected some cool stuff and have been running a secret program."
I sense that it's purposeful release was to gauge the readiness and general response the public would have to the story, and to prepare us for a bigger news event involving them in the future.
Or it could be that people have lived through the 40's, 50's, 60's, 70's, 80's, 90's, 2000's and up until now with nothing but a bunch of air balls.Quote: Keyser
What's also fascinating is the response by the general public to the videos released by the Department of Defense. Most don't really care as they're too wrapped up in their Facebook/Snapchat realm of narcissism. It's bizarre. Back in the 1970s/1980s/1990s this would have been a much bigger story. After all, this is the gov releasing videos and saying, "Yep, we've collected some cool stuff and have been running a secret program."
I sense that it's purposeful release was to gauge the readiness and general response the public would have to the story, and to prepare us for a bigger news event involving them in the future.
I sense that its purposeful release was to gauge the readiness of the general publics willingness to help fun millions of dollars in "research".
Perhaps, then, also the aliens are doing the same thing with their aliens? It just seems that when we get into other ways to explain things, prematurely, that we don't really explain anything. Okay, parallel dimensions. Where do those get us? Take the dimensions 1, 2 and 3, but then a 4th that is supposedly completely different from the others. And then have a bunch of parallel worlds based on the same dimensions. But, how do we know that those dimensions, as laid out by Einstein, are in a reasonable progression or other relationship? To make up parallel worlds is to duplicate the same errors of science to infinity. Ants have access to the same electromagnetic spectrum as we do, regardless of their use of it. We live in the same universe, with the ants and every thing else. There isn't a separate universe or physics for the aliens. As a higher understanding of physics is still based on the lower. But, when they are seen, all they seem to do is display the impossible. I mean, if they are going to conceal themselves, they are going to conceal themselves. So why would they reveal only the seemingly impossible parts of themselves, and to a very, very select few of us? It makes for great bull garbage.Quote: Keyser
I sense that it's purposeful release was to gauge the readiness and general response the public would have to the story, and to prepare us for a bigger news event involving them in the future.
For now it appears that UFOs from outer space may be quite real.
I don't understand why no one has ever seen them dump a load of space crap.Quote: KeyserBefore we get into extra dimensions we need to determine the source of the UFOs. Currently the experts can't say what the source is, but many are suggesting that they aren't local. However, I don't believe that we need to invoke extra dimensions just yet.
Along with Bigfoot, betting systems and 18 yo's in a row.Quote: Keyser
For now it appears that UFOs from outer space may be quite real.
Actually, I think there's a much much better chance we are being visited by aliens than someone actually seen 18 yo's in a row.
