I miss Vermenti and/or This Forum is Infested with Bullies
"I have a great system. It's fool proof. Worship it!" is a different statement than "I have a great system. It's fool proof. Worship me!" And, as the system is shown to have no validity, these two statements are deserving of two very different responses.
Either way, I probably crossed the line with Vince...
Quote: Beethoven9thI'm beginning to wonder if the people defending him even read ALL of his posts. I could be wrong, of course, but I have a feeling that some of them didn't. OTOH, I did.
Take the "Mission: Nuggets" thread, for example. He completely disrupted that thread with his offer of a bet and subsequent cancellation. Then he claimed that he'd send the Wizard $1,000 to hold, but of course, he flaked out on that one, too. IIRC, none of his current defenders criticized him for that.
I think you are mistaking some of the posts as being in defense of Vermenti, when in fact, they are not. I think a few of us are pointing out that a lot of the crap that went on in the threads should have been stifled well before this.
Quote: RaleighCrapsI think you are mistaking some of the posts as being in defense of Vermenti, when in fact, they are not. I think a few of us are pointing out that a lot of the crap that went on in the threads should have been stifled well before this.
No, not talking about you, man. :)
I just wanted to avoid an all out war with other members here, so I figured it's best not to call them out by name. My point still stands though. I went through a bunch of old posts, and I couldn't find a single post criticizing him from one of his current defenders.
On a broader subject, if anyone wants to talk about 'trolling', I think that a person who comes to a math forum but dismisses basic math...and then brags about a winning 'system' yet refuses to tell anyone what that system is...and then continues to post redundant messages about the said system...and then offers to book bets but then cancels when others accept.....well, I think that's a perfect example of 'trolling'.
True. I am in no way defending Vince. He was an utter clown, and a loon who posted way too much personal information. But it did go on too long and that type of behavior (even if well-deserved) should be discouraged (in my opinion).Quote: RaleighCrapsI think you are mistaking some of the posts as being in defense of Vermenti, when in fact, they are not. I think a few of us are pointing out that a lot of the crap that went on in the threads should have been stifled well before this.
He did provide a good signature...
Quote: teddysTrue. I am in no way defending Vince. He was an utter clown, and a loon .
Now if I had said that, or even hinted at it, the
fan would be splattering the wall with a never
ending stream of caca..
Quote: EvenBobNow if I had said that, or even hinted at it, the
fan would be splattering the wall with a never
ending stream of caca..
Poor, persecuted Bob. We can lend you a hair shirt.
Quote: Beethoven9thOn a broader subject, if anyone wants to talk about 'trolling', I think that a person who comes to a math forum but dismisses basic math...and then brags about a winning 'system' yet refuses to tell anyone what that system is...and then continues to post redundant messages about the said system...and then offers to book bets but then cancels when others accept.....well, I think that's a perfect example of 'trolling'.
You are only calling him that cause you disagree with him :)
I'm 50/50 on whether he was a bonafide troll or a poor misguided fool. That's the sign of a good troll, mind... you never can quite tell.
I agree that Varmenti made a rod for his own back, and had a quite nasty side to him. I did wonder if Jerry Logan had co-opted a new personality.
(Ah well, $100 I won't be able to donate to charity Haematology researcher after all.)
Quote: thecesspitPoor, persecuted Bob. We can lend you a hair shirt.
Is it suede on the outside? I love seude..
Quote: thecesspitYou are only calling him that cause you disagree with him :)
No, I'm not.....cuz I disagree with everybody. ;) LOL
Also, hasn't anyone ever noticed that varmenti, gr8player et al. have literally NEVER posted a single message in this thread? That should be another red flag. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they're reading this last few pages of this thread right now laughing at all the sh*t they've managed to stir.
Quote: Beethoven9thAlso, hasn't anyone ever noticed that varmenti, gr8player et al. have literally NEVER posted a single message in this thread? That should be another red flag. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they're reading this last few pages of this thread right now laughing at all the sh*t they've managed to stir.
Well, he's over in the other thread laughing about the 25000 views, so you be the judge.
Quote: Beethoven9thNo, I'm not.....cuz I disagree with everybody. ;) LOL
Also, hasn't anyone ever noticed that varmenti, gr8player et al. have literally NEVER posted a single message in this thread? That should be another red flag. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised if they're reading this last few pages of this thread right now laughing at all the sh*t they've managed to stir.
Right now was a post on that thread stating the whole purpose was to get the 25,000 views.
Quote: rob45Right now was a post on that thread stating the whole purpose was to get the 25,000 views.
Why would you believe that? Did you also believe him
and The Donald are on a first name basis? If you find
someone is lying, assume they lie about everything.
Quote: beachbumbabsYeah, I said that several days ago, that it was the one thing he ever said that might be true, and to kill the thread. Not particularly happy to be right, but he cheated to do it so he could gloat, and I called him out on it, so hopefully the other person tells him to pound sand.
If anyone wants to challenge me to create a 25,000 view thread somewhere for a vacation to Vegas, let me know.
Quote: EvenBobWhy would you believe that? Did you also believe him
and The Donald are on a first name basis? If you find
someone is lying, assume they lie about everything.
Never said I believed anything, just makin' an observation.
Quote: 1BBI agree that certain subjects should be posted on the DT site rather than here. It's what the Wizard wants and has made known more than a few times. The problem is that very few wish to join.
I think "officially", the only threads Wiz really urged to be put on DT were those of a polarizing nature, like religion, abortion, politics... the stuff that causes everyone to hair up. Granted, several of us have taken our complete left-field ramblings over there, but I, for one, didn't feel "forced" to do so.
It's certainly a random site with no real topic, but there are a bunch of good posters from here that have posted some good material over there. Join away. Who knows what we'll talk about next.
Quote: Beethoven9thI just wanted to avoid an all out war with other members here, so I figured it's best not to call them out by name.
Was it me? If so, feel free to call me out. I like a good debate as much as the next guy =)
In case it was, my "defense" is specific in nature. No disrespect to gr8, but watching ME and cess pick him apart intelligently is fun to me. It's a good read, it's informative. I even think gr8 would agree. Seeing folks pick apart Varmenti's claims was likewise entertaining. I personally love that stuff, I even love it when it's done to me and would in no way try to discourage it. It's when things get personal or repetitive that irks me. I guess I just don't see the point, and for whatever reason it sends me into defender mode.
For that matter, what happened to novicegambler? He hasn't posted at all since fit hit the shan, yet his profile says he been here today. Hmm...
If you ask me, this whole thing has been one big fabrication. And I know somebody's gonna ask, "But why would a person go through all the trouble to go to a forum, make a bunch of stuff up, and keep the charade going for days?"
Well, I would counter by asking: Why the heck do guys create computer viruses to f*ck up the computers of complete strangers?
ANSWER: Because they can!!
Quote: Beethoven9thAnd I know somebody's gonna ask, "But why would a person go through all the trouble to go to a forum, make a bunch of stuff up, and keep the charade going for days?"
Well, I would counter by asking: Why the heck do guys create computer viruses to f*ck up the computers of complete strangers?
ANSWER: Because they can!!
Over on 2+2, a guy posed as a LEO and got away with it for OVER 5 YEARS, running an "Ask Me Anything..." about being a cop, was the go-to guy for self defense and firearm questions...
It was an complete scam for him to get views on some advertising site or some junk.
Five. Years. Fooled everyone.
Quote: FaceWas it me? If so, feel free to call me out. I like a good debate as much as the next guy =)
No, it wasn't you either, bro. :)
I tried to be as ambiguous as humanly possible, but if everyone starts asking me, we'll eventually narrow it down to the person(s) in question by process of elimination. LOL!
Therefore, I guess it would be prudent of me to not answer the question anymore, especially since the whole brouhaha here is dying down. ;)
*P.S.-I love participating in debates with you, BTW. I have a feeling that we probably agree on many things, but even on those that we don't, I love the mental exercise! *thumbs up*
Quote: FaceOver on 2+2, a guy posed as a LEO and got away with it for OVER 5 YEARS, running an "Ask Me Anything..." about being a cop, was the go-to guy for self defense and firearm questions...
It was an complete scam for him to get views on some advertising site or some junk.
Five. Years. Fooled everyone.
Wow, that dude must have been very disciplined. It's hard to keep an act going, especially for 5 years!
Most of these morons (like 'varmenti') are too lazy. lol
He will NEVER beat the great JerryLogan, however. (No one ever will).
Quote: Beethoven9thWow, that dude must have been very disciplined. It's hard to keep an act going, especially for 5 years!
Not married hunh?
LOL!!!
Math geeks tore gr8player's system to shreds 7 years ago, yet he keeps going on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....
(But that's not troll-ish behavior, according to some. They think the trolls are the ones who call him out on it.)
Quote: Beethoven9th"It is possible, as many math geeks have pointed out, that a system may stay on the right side of the bell curve for years if not a lifetime for an individual."
Math geeks tore gr8player's system to shreds 7 years ago, yet he keeps going on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....
Yes and no. Gr8 has never given the details of
what he does, besides have a seat warmer in
his car and to carry a St Christophers statue
when it rains. There's nothing to tear apart,
he's never said what he specifically does. He
gives hints.
And folks, you don't get it. Just because his behaviour sucks doesn't mean we have to stoop to his level.
Quote: petroglyphQuote: Beethoven9thWow, that dude must have been very disciplined. It's hard to keep an act going, especially for 5 years!
Not married hunh?
OMG, petro! Post of the thread! LMAO....ancient personal experience below.
"November one-four-three-niner-alpha, say altitude."
"Altitude."
"November three-niner-alpha, say position."
"Position."
"November three-niner-alpha, say "Cancel IFR".
"Roger, approach, November three-niner-alpha is one-five D-M-E at niner thousand."
"November three-niner-alpha, descend and maintain four thousand feet."
"Approach, can we make that pilot's discretion descent?"
"November three-niner-alpha, if I'd meant pilot's discretion, I'd have said pilot's discretion."
"Roger, approach. Was I married to you once?"
Quote: EvenBobQuote: Beethoven9th"It is possible, as many math geeks have pointed out, that a system may stay on the right side of the bell curve for years if not a lifetime for an individual." Thats what I said but ME said i was wrong.
Math geeks tore gr8player's system to shreds 7 years ago, yet he keeps going on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....
Yes and no. Gr8 has never given the details of
what he does, besides have a seat warmer in
his car and to carry a St Christophers statue
when it rains. There's nothing to tear apart,
he's never said what he specifically does. He
gives hints.
Quote: Beethoven9th"It is possible, as many math geeks have pointed out, that a system may stay on the right side of the bell curve for years if not a lifetime for an individual."
Math geeks tore gr8player's system to shreds 7 years ago, yet he keeps going on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....and on.....
(But that's not troll-ish behavior, according to some. They think the trolls are the ones who call him out on it.)
Can you point to an example of this, where someone has been called a troll for pointing out gr8players errors? One example of someone being directly called a troll?
Just curious.
(I'm again torn between gr8player being here for his own kicks or misguided... I err on the former, based on previous people's experiences, but just cos they SAY they've dealt with him before, doesn't mean I have to believe them :) ).
Quote: BuzzardThe door swings both ways. If you think people in here are bullies, don't let the door hit you in the ass on the way out.
Don't let the door hit you in the ass: use the ground.
*ripped from today's news*
"'Yes, I bullied Rebecca and she killed herself but I don't give a ...' and you can add the last word yourself,"
Quote: thecesspitCan you point to an example of this, where someone has been called a troll for pointing out gr8players errors? One example of someone being directly called a troll?
Just curious.
You're right, I shouldn't have said "him", which refers specifically to one guy. I meant trolls in general.
Quote: Beethoven9thYou're right, I shouldn't have said "him", which refers specifically to one guy. I meant trolls in general.
Noted, cheers.
I don't know how the karaoke videos of Vermenti because known, but may I remind the forum of rule number 4:
Respect privacy. Do not post any information about someone else that is intended to be private or quote from private communication.
That means you can't do an invasive investigation of somebody's personal life and post what you find here. If Vermenti wrote that he posted karaoke videos on YouTube then they are fair for comment. If that information was not offered by Vermenti, then I think a forum rule may have been broken, and I would be interested to know who first posted about them.
By the way, I thought Vermenti was a pretty good singer. Better than 95% of what karaoke I've seen/heard. Better than me by many orders of magnitude.
Regarding the accusation that he was ganged up on. Well, this is supposed to be a math-oriented forum. If somebody seriously posted that the world was flat, then I wouldn't have much sympathy if that position didn't get a lot of support here. Much like I wouldn't expect to be well received on John Patrick's forum. Still, my philosophy is that we should be attacking the writing, not the writer. I tend to not participate in threads about craps and betting systems, so please report to me or Mission (preferably Mission) any alleged rule violations.
Quote: WizardIf Vermenti wrote that he posted karaoke videos on YouTube then they are fair for comment. If that information was not offered by Vermenti, then I think a forum rule may have been broken, and I would be interested to know who first posted about them.
Although I didn't bring up the videos first, varmenti did offer (on his own) the fact that he's the lead singer in a few bands—including a Bon Jovi tribute band and a Rush tribute band. He mentioned himself that these bands are on Facebook. He even went so far as to post his personal cell # and his personal email address.
While he didn't specifically say "YouTube", those are public videos that were brought up here after he was already nuked.
Forgive me, I am not a professional psychologist, but I had to deal with someone who, though not schizo or paranoiac, was definitely mythomaniac. Hoping this helps.Quote: mickeycrimmVarmenti is an amateur conman....and a would be amateur controller.
Varmenti lied when he said he was a professional gambler.
varmenti (please note I use his username, though from what you'll read, it is probably the real Vince Armenti) shows all the signs of that affection. There is a need for embellishing one's life, first in one's mind, then by telling everyone. To them, these are not lies. They half believe it. Then the refusal to register when you are refuted by facts or by other people.
I don't think he wanted to con anyone. He was not selling anything. I suspect he initially believed he was winning against the casino, and created his personal myth about a winning system and what a hero he was. Then, as mythomaniacs do, he needed to tell about it, so he joined the forum (I expect he joined others too). Just bragging. Not selling. He wanted recognition.
Then he got flamed, first for what he wrote, then, because mythomaniacs cannot face this, for what he was. And the matter went out of hand because he got more and more led to face his inconsequences (particularly, like all mythomaniacs, making up contradictory life stories of himself).
On the whole, he deserved more compassion from us all than despise. His problem is not stupidity (or betting-system-faith), it is a medical one.
LOL!Quote: mickeycrimmVarmenti threw the first personal insult when, in his third post, he called Beethoven stupid. Varmenti is an amateur conman....and a would be amateur controller. He tried to control this site from his very git go. He tried to control Mission and tell him who he could suspend and who he couldn't. Varmenti lied when he said he was a professional gambler. I respect all professional gamblers, but as a professional gambler I can tell you that I would never be associated with such an imbecile as Varmenti. He might be a pretty good karaoke singer, but he doesn't know jackall about gambling. He reminds me of the burgler who got mugged. Watch out what house you break into. They might mug your ass. That's what happened to Varmenti on this website. He broke into the wrong house and got mugged.
Quote: kubikulannI had to deal with someone who, though not schizo or paranoiac, was definitely mythomaniac.
you got me to look this up
http://www.helpingpsychology.com/mythomania-another-name-for-compulsive-lying
Quote: Beethoven9thhe's the lead singer in a...Rush tribute band.
That's what the voice is perfect for, really. Fast & high...I bet he's actually quite good in that one.
Quote: gr8player on 10/17:What they really don't realize, however, is this: Their math is NOT the only math.
I don't understand how anyone is supposed to take something like this seriously (especially when this member has come to a math-oriented forum).
Quote: Beethoven9thWith all the recent talk about 'trolling', here's a perfect example of (what one could argue is) 'trolling':
Quote: gr8player on 10/17:What they really don't realize, however, is this: Their math is NOT the only math.
I don't understand how anyone is supposed to take something like this seriously (especially when this member has come to a math-oriented forum).
I don't understand that member at all. he's said in the past that he knows he can't win, but that he chooses to ignore that because it's no fun. So instead he employs a positive attitude. I guess that's fine. He can fool himself all he wants. But now it's like he honestly doesn't understand how/why he can't bring others into the delusion.
Quote: Beethoven9thAlthough I didn't bring up the videos first, varmenti did offer (on his own) the fact that he's the lead singer in a few bands—including a Bon Jovi tribute band and a Rush tribute band. He mentioned himself that these bands are on Facebook. He even went so far as to post his personal cell # and his personal email address.
Okay, I guess he let that cat out of the bag himself. Thanks for the explanation.
Quote: GWAEI would be curious to know though if those were actually him or he hijacked them.
That's what I think. He seemed a bit too quick to give up personal info & photos of "himself".
Dam it..... I really thought BOB was going to get suspended for this.Quote: WizardOkay, I guess he let that cat out of the bag himself. Thanks for the explanation.
Quote: Beethoven9thWith all the recent talk about 'trolling', here's a perfect example of (what one could argue is) 'trolling':
Quote: gr8player on 10/17:What they really don't realize, however, is this: Their math is NOT the only math.
I don't understand how anyone is supposed to take something like this seriously (especially when this member has come to a math-oriented forum).
Are you freakin' serious with this accusation, Beethoven9th???? Trolling, really????
You'd post this trash towards what end? A blatant attempt at my suspension is what it is, and, worse, totally unfounded...
