So what's the deal with "The Cloud"?

From all the information floating around, "The Cloud" seems to be nothing more than remote file storage. Of course calling it "The Cloud" sounds a lot better. You don't imagine some dingy virtual storage locker somewhere, but rather your files ethereally floating in some mythical "Cyberspace" nowhere.

What I don't see is that it is any kind of major breakthrough or even in any way all that convenient for the vast majority of all people in the planet at the present time. Sure, it might be a convenient backup, and it would solve problems like lost or ruined thumb drives, but I don't see it as being worth the expense. Besides, I wouldn't trust someone else with sensitive files which could, for all I know, get copied, stolen, damaged or just plain lost. Imagine seeing your novel suddenly published, word for word, by someone else; or your financial information published somewhere.

Am I missing something?

I don't have those concerns ; I have been using remote file storage for a long time.

It does seem odd to me we are using this term now, clouds, and all are going along with it in lockstep.

Quote: Nareed

Am I missing something?

You may not be old enough to remember "dumb terminals" which were basically communication devices. In some sense these are going back to the days of dumb terminals, but without the need for wired connections.

When you say "remote file storage" that could be a system where you upload your data to a remote drive. By "the cloud" they are usually talking about a much faster communication link, so that updates are instantly saved, and more importantly the executable file is someplace other than your computer. If enough information is stored on another device, you may not require a hard drive at all on your computer (just memory chips), and the battery requirements will be greatly reduced,

The process is not inherently more or less expensive. The Google Chromebooks retail for $250 which is considerably lower than an equivalent PC. Now it will cost you money to get access to software and data storage, so it may cost you more or less in the long run than purchasing computers and upgrading the models, and backing up your data.

The appeal is safety to your data, and the requirement not to upgrade software. I see Chromebook markets the fact that there is no start up procedure. You turn the device on, and a few seconds later you are ready to work.

Eventually, as post-PC products get more and more useful, they will by nature require you to do more cloud computing. But it's not a reason to throw out a perfectly good laptop.

Quote: pacomartin

You may not be old enough to remember "dumb terminals" which were basically communication devices.

I remember them. I just never had occasion to use them.

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When you say "remote file storage" that could be a system where you upload your data to a remote drive. By "the cloud" they are usually talking about a much faster communication link, so that updates are instantly saved, and more importantly the executable file is someplace other than your computer.

That is such a bad idea I can't even begin to describe what's horribly wrong with it. For starters, suppose you need to do something really urgent and your internet connection is down, or absent. What then?

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The appeal is safety to your data, and the requirement not to upgrade software.

What safety? I know what protections I have for my PC, I don't know what some company on "The Cloud" does. As for upgrades, you'll be charged for them, never fear. Even if you're not charged now. Besides, you won't be able to keep to an older, more useful version of a program if you so choose.

Quote: Nareed

From all the information floating around, "The Cloud" seems to be nothing more than remote file storage. Of course calling it "The Cloud" sounds a lot better. You don't imagine some dingy virtual storage locker somewhere, but rather your files ethereally floating in some mythical "Cyberspace" nowhere.

What I don't see is that it is any kind of major breakthrough or even in any way all that convenient for the vast majority of all people in the planet at the present time. Sure, it might be a convenient backup, and it would solve problems like lost or ruined thumb drives, but I don't see it as being worth the expense. Besides, I wouldn't trust someone else with sensitive files which could, for all I know, get copied, stolen, damaged or just plain lost. Imagine seeing your novel suddenly published, word for word, by someone else; or your financial information published somewhere.

Am I missing something?

I'm also not sure what the exact term of "The Cloud" is. Maybe this is a generation conflict of the famous "interweb thing".

Personally, I often use Dropbox, for multiple purposes. Of course it is a remote file storage, any FTP server would do the same service. But then there is more to it: you always have a *local* copy of every file, and this copy is held up to date in an automatical way. Then there is (at least for Dropbox) a file history reaching back several weeks - although it won't help against accidental deletion. And then there is a sharing mechanism between users...
I like to use Dropbox to conveniently synchronize folders (i.e. projects, documentations, articles) among multiple machines I use (home, work, laptop, mobile phone), keeping them up to date everywhere without any hassle or much thought. And when the need comes, without change in the personal workflow, one can share or publish the project with someone else, including all future updates.

Although I know each individual service is nothing new and could in principle be implemented by some (even free) software - so why use the Cloud in the first place ? First, you would need an internet server - and the time to constantly maintain it. Second, you would need to know all those tools, probably for different platforms as well. Third, your coworkers would also need to know how to operate such tools.


The last argument: I would also never ever deposit sensitive files in the cloud. For this kind one I would use an encrypted filesystem. The encrypted files get shared in "the cloud", and access is only local by a transparent filesystem layer (a virtual filesystem which is mapped to the encrypted files).

Quote: MangoJ

Personally, I often use Dropbox, for multiple purposes. Of course it is a remote file storage, any FTP server would do the same service. But then there is more to it: you always have a *local* copy of every file, and this copy is held up to date in an automatical way.

We use a local file server in the office, actually a directory in the ahrd drive of one particular PC in the office, so I know how that works. But the copy in Dropbox isn't local. if you lose internet access you're cut off from your files.

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And then there is a sharing mechanism between users...

One of my cousins pressured me to get on Dropbox, as a matter of fact. When I did, he began sendnig me files on Biblical commentaries. You can guess what I think of that. But what really bugged me where the endless emails from Dropbox. I dont' recall just what I did about it, but they've stopped.

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I like to use Dropbox to conveniently synchronize folders (i.e. projects, documentations, articles) among multiple machines I use (home, work, laptop, mobile phone), keeping them up to date everywhere without any hassle or much thought.

I can see how that would work, but I'd rather either carry a thumb drive or email files to myself. Also I'm blessedly free of mobile devices and like to keep it that way. Once I'm out of the office, it should require a great deal to either go abck or even to work on something related to the job. I don't want to be easily tied to all that.

Quote: Nareed

We use a local file server in the office, actually a directory in the ahrd drive of one particular PC in the office, so I know how that works. But the copy in Dropbox isn't local. if you lose internet access you're cut off from your files.

Sorry, the copies in Dropbox are indeed local. You have read+write access to them with the speed of your harddrive, with or without internet access. If you change something, it gets synchronized the next time you go online.

If it weren't for local copies, I would perfectly agree that Dropbox would be a waste of time.

Regarding thumb drives: After my third drive died within months of use (i.e. they give read errors resulting in corrupted files) I don't trust them anymore I would trust those old floppy disks.

Quote: Nareed

From all the information floating around, "The Cloud" seems to be nothing more than remote file storage. Of course calling it "The Cloud" sounds a lot better. You don't imagine some dingy virtual storage locker somewhere, but rather your files ethereally floating in some mythical "Cyberspace" nowhere.

What I don't see is that it is any kind of major breakthrough or even in any way all that convenient for the vast majority of all people in the planet at the present time. Sure, it might be a convenient backup, and it would solve problems like lost or ruined thumb drives, but I don't see it as being worth the expense. Besides, I wouldn't trust someone else with sensitive files which could, for all I know, get copied, stolen, damaged or just plain lost. Imagine seeing your novel suddenly published, word for word, by someone else; or your financial information published somewhere.

Am I missing something?

The term "cloud" is mostly marketing, as you have rightly discovered. Web-based email, for example, could rightly be called a "cloud" application. But I signed up for my first Hotmail account in 1996. Let me point out a few places where it's useful in 2013 where "remote file storage" was mostly just for backups, say, 10 or 15 years ago.

Amazon Cloud Drive - lets you upload your entire library of music to Amazon's servers, and then access it from any browser or any mobile device with an internet connection. Imagine buying an MP3 album on Amazon (or even on iTunes, but then there's an extra step) and then having it instantly available on all of your various devices. Work desktop, home desktop, laptop, Android phone that you take with you in the car on trips, etc. This assumes that you have a smart phone with a persistent data connection, and that you're not limited on your data consumption (or you're okay with paying whatever the cost will be for streaming your music).

Google Docs - I've taken to using google docs for ad-hoc spreadsheets like organizing a roster for an Ultimate tournament. Whether I'm at work, or at home, or on my laptop, the file is always there and accessible, and I can update it from wherever I am. As an added bonus, I can send the link around to my teammates and they can update their status in regards to injury, carpools, hotel preference, etc. You can set a document to be private, or it can have an access list of just approved people, or you can even set it to be private except those who have the special link can read it. All of the above options can be tweaked for read-only or read/write access. Try to accomplish the same thing with an Excel spreadsheet that is emailed around to a medium-size group of people, and let me know how it works out. It's chaos with the various revisions all conflicting. To their credit, Microsoft has been selling this same capability via Sharepoint for years, but now Google has caught up and is offering a subset of that functionality for free.

Dropbox - I don't use dropbox as much as some people, but one thing I do use it for is my Linux "dot files" - basically configuration files. These set up various aspects of how I interface with the operating system, for example various aliases I use on the command line, or keyboard shortcuts I use in various terminal applications, or my Emacs set up (for editing text files or software programs). The main value add here is again, there is only one copy of the file that is automatically synchronized to all of my computers. If I add a new alias or shortcut while I'm at work, then Dropbox will automatically pick up the change and push it out to my other devices. So when I get home, that shortcut is already in effect. This is more specific to my software profession, but you get the idea.

The main value-add of most of the "cloud" applications is that your documents, applications, files, etc. are "always available" regardless of where you are. You just log in with your credentials (to Google, to Amazon, to Dropbox, etc.) and all your stuff is there. I agree that you are making a big assumption that these companies are competent with security so that your files are not compromised. There will always be slip-ups, but as a former Amazon employee, I know they take customer information security very seriously, so I trust them to make the right decisions and to follow up on breaches quickly. I put the same trust in Google based on their track record. Call me foolhardy if you wish. I definitely don't put important financial documents on Dropbox or in Google Docs.

It is a little disturbing that Google has so much of my information, for example every personal email I've sent or received for the last 7 years. I even have this shirt to joke about it. But I don't lose any sleep over it, to be honest.

Now, MS Office apps aren't going anywhere. Google Docs has a pitiful market share, especially in the business world. I get that. But the "cloud" has its place.

Quote: Nareed

Also I'm blessedly free of mobile devices and like to keep it that way.

A big appeal of the "cloud" focuses on mobile devices. So a lot of the marketing pitch is lost on you.

Quote: Nareed

Once I'm out of the office, it should require a great deal to either go abck or even to work on something related to the job. I don't want to be easily tied to all that.

I do a lot of "personal" work while I'm at work. Right or wrong, it's a fact of life and assumed to be true in my profession. You can only sit there head-down writing code for so many hours at a time. You take a break, answer your email, etc. So for me, having access to certain personal documents at work is a huge plus.

I'm not trying to sell you on the "cloud," Nareed. I'm just trying to relate to you what the various value-adds are and why it's such a big deal right now.

Quote: Nareed

What I don't see is that it is any kind of major breakthrough or even in any way all that convenient for the vast majority of all people in the planet at the present time.

With all due respect, you are not a typical example of a tech-savvy person. Just by virtue of not living in the US and not having a smart phone or tablet. This is not meant to be a slight on you at all, just saying that it makes sense that you wouldn't understand the appeal. That is totally fine :).

The cloud is beyond just remote file storage. It is also the idea of pushing intensive processing into remote server farms.

There are many 'cloud based' services... it's another term, or evolution of the concept of software as a service. Salesforce, for example, is a classic cloud-based application. It pushes off a lot of the tech support into a server farm, and allows for the administrators to be more at the sharp edge of the business (e.g. they know what they want to do with the applications, and don't need to worry about back ups, firewalls and the like).

Give it 5 years and the trend will be for locally hosted processing again. It comes and goes depending on where the technology is.

Dropbox on desktops has local files. Dropbox on mobile I think you have to manually download items. I have local copies on any desktop/laptop I've ever owned.

I'm not sure why your cousin sharing those commentaries makes you think dropbox is any worse than email. He could still send those to you there right? The difference with email is that there are 2 servers that can block that file from getting to you. The senders and yours. With something like dropbox, it is either allowed or not. People need to share files. If you wish to continue to only use email or physically get them a thumb drive, go for it.

Most people would rather not do a manual process to have a backup of a file. They want to do as little work as possible. Do you backup these files hourly? What would get lost if your hard drive crashed?


Some cloud services that regular average people use everyday

Email - An old one, but is a cloud service and has been nearly forever.
Pictures - People upload photes to services to share on things like Facebook/Twitter
Notes - A large number of simply note taking applications out there sync with the cloud. You can create a note on your desktop and then look at them on your phone when you are at the store.
Maps - I'm guessing a large majority of people in the US at least don't have a dedicated GPS system or a dedicated GPS app, they use google maps or apply maps which don't have offline access(or limited).
Music - Google/Amazon/Apple now all have services which get your music up in the cloud and you can listen anywhere. Things like Spotify are cloud music services that essentially are a radio but it is everywhere rather than 1 geographic location.
File Backup - Probably not all that common, but the perfect thing for the cloud to do. If that harddrive dies, an easy way to get back up and running is great.
Video - Things like Netflix and Amazon Instant Video are clearly cloud services and millions use them everyday.


Some of the newer and more enterprise cloud services are hosted applications. Like you can run some code editor not on your local box, but on a remote server and it is simply streamed to you. This is far more common in businesses so they don't have to install something 500 times. That isn't really an issue with a consumer who just has to install it once or twice.





FYI - You kindof already use cloud storage. Your local file server in the office to me was the first version of cloud storage. Instead of everyone having documents on their own computers, they all store documents on a central server. Whether it is located 10ft from you or 10 miles down the road in a data center doesn't really matter. It is still all coming through internet. If you regularly lose internet, I could see why it might be a difference to you. That server could go down in your office as well and you don't have access to that data anymore.

Quote: AcesAndEights

The term "cloud" is mostly marketing, as you have rightly discovered.

Everything is mostly marketing. The trick is to get past the catch-phrases and see what it's really about. Take sales, for instance. A common tactic is to scream "UP TO 50% OFF!!!!!" then you find small discounts ranging from 5% to 10%, and one item or two discounted 50%. Overall, the louder the hype the lousier the offer. "The Cloud" has been very loudly hyped lately.

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The main value-add of most of the "cloud" applications is that your documents, applications, files, etc. are "always available" regardless of where you are.

I have 99% fo everything I need always available thanks to a $20 thumb drive (I bought it years ago), a $25 MP3 player, the car's CD player, and a free phone issued by the company I work for. If there was something really wrong with me, I'd ponder paying monthly fees instead of nothing ;)

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With all due respect, you are not a typical example of a tech-savvy person. Just by virtue of not living in the US and not having a smart phone or tablet. This is not meant to be a slight on you at all, just saying that it makes sense that you wouldn't understand the appeal. That is totally fine :).

1) The internet is supposed to do away with borders. It hasn't worked that way, not fully, but that shoulnd't be a consideration.

2) I don't have a smart phone because I don't want one. They're hideously expensive, for one thing. For antoher, all they can do is either uselss or sorely limited; things a PC can do easily and well, these phones do badly and with added difficulty (difficulty MS saw fit to inflict on PC users, BTW). Sure, when I see them I think they're neat, but it all comes down to people thinking Steve Jobs was cool, or cute, and teens and adults being too old to buy toys for themselves. They're not even good as phones.

2.1) I buy the notion of tablets, more or less, as long as I can have a keyboard, a mouse and a USB port. I don't see the bare screen as very useful for what I'd want with one.

Quote: soulhunt79

I'm not sure why your cousin sharing those commentaries makes you think dropbox is any worse than email. He could still send those to you there right?

He doesn't have my email. I just saw no use for Dropbox, and still don't.

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Most people would rather not do a manual process to have a backup of a file. They want to do as little work as possible. Do you backup these files hourly? What would get lost if your hard drive crashed?

At the office we do backups to an external drive twice a day. At home I backup important files to a thumb drive from time to time. if my home HD crashed, I'd lose nothing that cannot be replaced or that I cannot do without. And, yes, I realize this is largely in part because my recipes are in my blog.

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Notes - A large number of simply note taking applications out there sync with the cloud. You can create a note on your desktop and then look at them on your phone when you are at the store.

Far easier to jot a note on paper and carry it with you.

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Music - Google/Amazon/Apple now all have services which get your music up in the cloud and you can listen anywhere. Things like Spotify are cloud music services that essentially are a radio but it is everywhere rather than 1 geographic location.

All the music I care to listen to, in those rare occasions when I do, fits into a single MP3 CD. I also still have many original CDs.

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FYI - You kindof already use cloud storage. Your local file server in the office to me was the first version of cloud storage. Instead of everyone having documents on their own computers, they all store documents on a central server. Whether it is located 10ft from you or 10 miles down the road in a data center doesn't really matter.

Oh, it matters a great deal. When you need a file right now and your net connection is down or acting up, it's a lot easier to move a few meters to the server and copy the file, or work it right there.

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If you regularly lose internet, I could see why it might be a difference to you.

Not regularly, but it happens. more common is the WiFi starts acting up, or the DNS thingy gets temperamental, or something. it's more a company problem.

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That server could go down in your office as well and you don't have access to that data anymore.

That's why there are backups.

Once your information is stored anywhere but in your office, the issue of who owns the data could be problematic. If you get a subpeona to provide information, you would consult your lawyer and then proceed. Is every storage device owner out their in the cloud required to contact you before releasing your stored information?

For large software offerings, "cloud services" offers the use of the software as a service (SaaS) with all remote functionality being housed off site. This brings the total cost of ownership down considerably for the customer because they don't have to worry about hardware, database administration, and system administration, especially since alot of this work can be farmed overseas for much cheaper.

Data security is always a concern, and in particular, data ownership is a concern. For example, if data is housed in the United States, it is subject by the laws pertaining to where the server resides. Some sectors have laws regarding where data must be housed.

US data ownership rules can be -interesting-, to say the least. These affect B2B customers mostly. Which again is another reason Nareed isn't the target market. I'm not selling my $3,000/month solution to her. If she's not a stake holder in the business IT decisions, that is (and our SaaS offering is not in her sector anyways).

Data security will be what diminishes the cloud, at least that is my guess. There's a lot of data that people will discover is far too valuable to entrust to a third party service. It's probably at the same risk if stored internally, but internal accountability is always perceived to be stronger. Most cloud systems are backed up, or at least should be, just the same as they are within a central system.

That said, there's a market for private clouds as well. Given a large enough enterprise, the cloud based model can work even just within the company for a lot of services.

The term "cloud" is derived from the fact that the part of a network in a network diagram that is beyond one's sphere of responsibility is traditionally represented by a cloud shape.

IT directors will find that their decision to use "the cloud" will not relieve them of responsibility when it fails. What "the cloud" really represents is the part of the network outside one's realm of control, influence, or ability to fix.

I, personally, use Amazon S3 for my off-site backup (my third copy). Though I refuse to do so without using encryption that only I possess the key for. Amazon could want to look at my files. They could be subpoenaed or served a warrant for my files. They could have a rifle to the back of the ear for my files, but all they would be able to produce is random noise.

A "cloud" solution I couldn't live without is www.lastpass.com. All my passwords are, again, encrypted with a key that only I possess. They could want or be coerced to provide my data and all they could produce would be random noise. There are browser plugins that automatically fill the password fields. I can get at them on my phone and changes are automatically synced. I simply couldn't live without it. It enables me to use a different PIN at each bank, strong, randomly-generated, impossible-to-type passwords that are different on every site, without having to memorize anything but the one password used to unlock my vault. Of course, there are also facilities to keep a local backup in case "the cloud" fails, which it undoubtedly will.

I have zero problems with cloud storage or processing when it's the best solution to the problem at the time. I have many issues with giving my readable bits to someone else.

Quote: QuadDeuces

The term "cloud" is derived from the fact that the part of a network in a network diagram that is beyond one's sphere of responsibility is traditionally represented by a cloud shape.

IT directors will find that their decision to use "the cloud" will not relieve them of responsibility when it fails. What "the cloud" really represents is the part of the network outside one's realm of control, influence, or ability to fix.

It's always a balance between cost and control. The CIO accepts the responsibility of savings with control, and many times, it is a good decision. The talent base of DBAs and System Administrators especially in a specialized market is generally thin -- it's hard to find resources. However, there are tons of resources in Asia who are well educated and suited to these tasks for about 25 - 30% of the cost. The United States doesn't issue enough H1-B visas to bring them all over and that would drive up costs anyway.

My job is pretty much "in the cloud". I work from home and see my client on about 10% of days. I see my manager about once a year, and I go to head office perhaps once a year, usually to resolve IT issues or to take training. My division sells "cloud services" of many different varieties to our customers which are generally large companies. My computer has various devices that connect to different companies' Virtual Private Networks which allows me to work from home.

It's my job to resolve and differences from the standard business processes that the software provides to the business processes that the business has, then to guide them through the installation, configuration, testing, and training of the software. It's a temporary job which is why companies use third party companies to do this.

My job doesn't get farmed out to India because of my command of English and my understanding and experiences of North American and European business practices.

I'd better stay on thecesspit's good side -- I'm moving to Vancouver in a couple of years and might be looking for new work!

The Cloud as with any marketing term is a phrase with multiple meanings, many not well understood by even the salesmen or engineers who use them.

Software as service and hardware as service means just about everything is in the cloud... you pay for the hardware and software as you actually need it.

You can now crunch 40 million tweets geo-located to Islamic neighborhoods and specific Islamic leaders. The humungous database is somewhere in the cloud, the processing power to play around with it is somewhere in the cloud, the software to display the results intelligently is somewhere in the cloud.

You don't have to invest in capacity you never actually need.

Legally, you have no idea where your thoughts and messages went, who has a duty to keep them, who has to have a subpoena served before releasing them or where they were automatically forwarded because the router on some network was manufactured by a front for a foreign power.

I am a mainframe bigot.
I have worked in the era of the 'dumb terminal', where all of the execution took place on the mainframe in the glass walled computer complex. As a user, I had no worries of software updates, data backup, or data protection. I logged in on the terminal, did my work, and logged off. Later, I was a customer engineer that worked on the mainframes for 15 years as well. Then the PC revolution came along, and servers came along, and the IT community pronounced the mainframes as costly dinosaurs, to be made extinct.

A funny thing happened though. As businesses moved to these cheaper servers, and did away with their mainframe programming shops full of staff, two things happened. One was, they found out that people were not backing up critical data like they should have been, and because the staff was now distributed about the company, they had to suffer through these problems repeatedly. The second thing learned was, once you accounted for all of the extra work that was being shared by multiple people supporting the servers, it was actually costing the company MORE than the mainframe model. It is a hidden IT cost though, because the cost is no longer labeled IT. Instead, some worker bee is doing an hour of IT a week, but it is no longer called IT.

Then you start having compatibility issues as one person upgrades to later software, or a new tool, but other people they need to share with , have not made the same changes. So, to address these challenges, they invent 'The Cloud'.
The Cloud will handle all of the execution.
The Cloud will handle all of the file storage.
The Cloud will allow you to connect from multiple devices, and all of your data will be in sync.

The Cloud is acting just like a frigging mainframe!

Turns out the dinosaur isn't so dead after all. Of course, The Cloud makes mobility much easier, and you have no worries about IT costs or infrastructure. It is either free, or you are paying some nominal flat rate fee, but those costs are straightforward. And, as mentioned, you are hoping your data is backed up, and that it will never be compromised, which I would not put much confidence in. No matter how smart the defender of the data is, there is always going to be some geek who figures out a way to get in (and that geek will probably turn out to be 14 yo).

Or the joke about a PC was IBM's way of selling more mainframes.

Diffusion of responsibility and increase in servers let discrepancies creep in... everyone created their own databases with their own field names and abbreviations.

Now the "Computer Department" is back... managerial control even if all they do is run out to a cloud provider's premises to actually access "their" computer.

The server farms and networking firms can all provide more security than anyone could on their own. Most of the info gurus at various businesses can't protect a network or even be sure its under attack, it takes the cloud firms to have specialists on duty who know how to detect an attack and shift workload around the globe while evading the attackers.

Quote: QuadDeuces

I have zero problems with cloud storage or processing when it's the best solution to the problem at the time. I have many issues with giving my readable bits to someone else.

This is the crux of the issue - appropriate solutions for appropriate problems. Appropriate thoughts from one of my heroes.

So, this cloud thingy....

It turns out our company is running email through/on/around/whatever "the cloud." This is through an office suite with a very popular email program which shall remain nameless. Anyway, last Friday I downloaded a file at home, accessed the email through/on/around/whatever "the cloud" and sent it to three other people.

Now, according to the hype surrounding "the cloud," this email should appear, magically so to speak, in my office PC's email program (part of a popular office suite which shall remain nameless), right?
Well, it did.

Only without the attached file, or even a link to recover it.

So, am I missing something and this is the way it's supposed to work?

I suppose I might ahve sent the email without the attached file. But 1) I remember attaching the file and 2) the people receiving it where anxious to get it. I called them the moment the message was off. They'd have called me back, quite angry, had they received the message and not the file.

Quote: RaleighCraps

The Cloud will handle all of the execution.
The Cloud will handle all of the file storage.
The Cloud will allow you to connect from multiple devices, and all of your data will be in sync.

We are "The Cloud." We will add your biological and technological distinctiveness to our own. Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.

What could possibly go wrong?

Granted I bypassed the era of mainframes and dumb terminals. And perhaps this notion of "the cloud" makes sense in the interstices of the Borg Collective, er, I mean in corporate settings. But don't ever expect the rabid individualist to see it as anything more than remote storage to backup a backup of her data (if that much).

Funny. I hadn't realized the collective aspect until now... Not, i hasten to add, Collectivist. merely colelctive. I've no problem with things that are collective, like public transport or an airport shuttle.

I'm long overdue to replace my PC but am hampered by the existence of Win8. Neverhteless, the last time I switched PCs the task involved days and days of burning CDs. I thought this time around I'd use thumb drives, ro even possibly buy an external drive and be done. Instead, though, I'm making use of Google Drive to upload a few GBs of files.

It's not going well. Uploading through the website is slow, and I can't understand the program I downloaded to the PC. Worse, when transferring a large folder with many subfolders, the process just freezes. There's no option, as far as I can see, to retry. If I try to upload it again, another folder gets created by Google. This requires me to delete the previous attempt.

I suppose I may not be using the best "cloud" storage available. Any notions of which other free (and I cannot stress free enough) services might be out there?

Quote: Nareed

I'm long overdue to replace my PC

Can't tell from this if you already have the PC or are intending to get, but sounds like you have it.

IMNSHO, the straightline apprach is smplest rather than fussing with an intermediary, be it physical storage or cloud. Something like crashplan.com is free and you just back up the files from old to new. Very fast. Done deal.

If for some reason you must use an intermediary, then can get free trial from many, exavault.com is good and uploads/downloads very fast (depeniding on available bandwidth of your connection of course).

Quote: chickenman

Can't tell from this if you already have the PC or are intending to get, but sounds like you have it.

That's a complicated question, so I won't go into the alternatives.

I've an old Vista with lots of files in it. I have not yet purchased a replacement, as I'm hampered on that by the very existence of Win8. Let's leave it at that for now.

What I'm doing is a backup on Google Drive for all my files I want to move to the new PC, for when I have a new PC.

Quote:

IMNSHO, the straightline apprach is smplest rather than fussing with an intermediary, be it physical storage or cloud. Something like crashplan.com is free and you just back up the files from old to new. Very fast. Done deal.

Thanks. I'll look it up.

But I don't get the distinction. Surely I'll have to upload everything there, too. Of course, if it then updates new files I may add to folders I already uploaded, that would be great.

Sorry, I should have been more specific. No, crashplan is PC-to-PC so the files are available right on, say, the desktop or any place you choose.

I don't get a commission for this [ ;-) ] but if you buy the PC from Dell can get Win7 plus the free Dell transfer utility and same as above simply move the files from old to new.

Quote: chickenman

No, crashplan is PC-to-PC so the files are available right on, say, the desktop or any place you choose.

To quote Victor Hugo: "?"

Quote:

I don't get a commission for this [ ;-) ] but if you buy the PC from Dell can get Win7 plus the free Dell transfer utility and same as above simply move the files from old to new.

Yeah, I've looked at Dell Mexico, and their PCs with Win7 are very, very few and very much overpriced. Allegedly you can customize any PC. In reality, this does not often extend to the OS. I haven't looked for the trasnfer utility. What they had prominently displayed on their site is information on why Win8 is such a great OS you have to be crazy not to want it.

Another options is that, since no one is crazy enough to buy a Vista PC without the oomph to run Win7 (though it may run Win8) is to physically hook the PCs together with, I'm guessing, a USB cable and transfer the files directly. I've no idea if this is even possible. I recall doing so long, long, long ago between DOS PCs with a serial cable.

Quote: Nareed

I'm long overdue to replace my PC but am hampered by the existence of Win8. Neverhteless, the last time I switched PCs the task involved days and days of burning CDs. I thought this time around I'd use thumb drives, ro even possibly buy an external drive and be done. Instead, though, I'm making use of Google Drive to upload a few GBs of files.

Why would you do either?

Just connect your old HDD to one of the new PC's ports and copy-paste what you need effortlessly in OS.

Quote: P90

Just connect your old HDD to one of the new PC's ports and copy-paste what you need effortlessly in OS.

Do you know the joke about the pilot who gets lost while flying a helicopter?

Very informative, here I thought it was a big ass building in southern Utah.

Quote: Nareed

Do you know the joke about the pilot who gets lost while flying a helicopter?

Yes, I do. I don't know how this is in any way related to Microsoft - you can do this in any OS.

Seriously. You wasted hours of time and some blank CD's migrating the last time.
This time, are you going to:
1) Spend 2-5 hours doing a ridiculous workaround because you don't know how it's meant to be done, or
2) Spend 30 minutes learning how it's meant to be done and another 30 doing it?

Modern PCs have been designed specifically to make the process of switching their interchangeable components so easy that any end user could and would do it. It's not fixing your car, it's connecting your TV to your receiver.

Quote: P90

Modern PCs have been designed specifically to make the process of switching their interchangeable components so easy that any end user could and would do it. It's not fixing your car, it's connecting your TV to your receiver.

Or, if you have a router or even an old hub lying around you could share the drive of the old machine and just send the files across the network. I've changed computers many times and don't ever recall burning a CD to move data. Too time consuming and wasteful.

Quote: MonkeyMonkey

Or, if you have a router or even an old hub lying around you could share the drive of the old machine and just send the files across the network. I've changed computers many times and don't ever recall burning a CD to move data. Too time consuming and wasteful.

I appreciate the suggestion. I have a router. But unfortunately I've no idea what to do with it. Do I just plug in a network cable from each PC? I'm guessing it's a lot more complicated than that.

Plug in a network cable from either PC.

If you don't see the other one in network places -
Open Network Connections and run the network setup wizard. Enable all sharing and be sure to use the same workgroup name on both computers.

Quote: P90

Plug in a network cable from either PC.

Thanks! That was actually helpful.

BTW, about this wonderful new cloudy wordl we live in...

Our comany switched email a few months ago to the cloud. Yesterday while driving home, I got an email asking to forward prior messages to two other addresses. Doing that on the brick of a phone I have is rather a chore, so I decided to access the server on the cloud once I got home. It's supposed to ahve the same messages, including sent ones, that I have at the office, right? It doens't. Some of the sent emails I had to forward were not in the sent folder. So i wound up typing long email addresses on the tiny keyboard on the brick.

So, what's the big deal with the cloud? ;)

Color me underwhelmed (I think that would be a kind of pale beige, perhaps).

Since I'm now carrying a tablet around everywhere I go, and this includes playing podcasts in the car, I decided to install Google Drive in both it and my PC (the tablet is a Nexus 7 with Android 4.3 Jelly Bean). I downloaded this week's podcasts to the Google Drive folder. Sure enough, it synced them to "the cloud." And sure enough, I could see them in the GD "app" in the tablet.

What I couldn't do, despite some online sleuthing, was get the music player to see them and play them. I could play them one by one from the GD "app," but that's inconvenient. If I want to play the next one, I have to open the GD app again, find the file and coax it to play.

So I wound up hooking the tablet to the PC and copying the files to the appropriate directory.

Again, I'd like to know: What's the deal with "the cloud"?

But the tablet is great. I love it.

Amazon takes the whole "cloud" way too literally:

http://www.zdnet.com/amazon-unveils-delivery-by-drone-prime-air-no-seriously-7000023795/

I checked, and it's not April 1st yet.

Quote: Nareed

Amazon takes the whole "cloud" way too literally:

http://www.zdnet.com/amazon-unveils-delivery-by-drone-prime-air-no-seriously-7000023795/

I checked, and it's not April 1st yet.

We're living in the future, man.

I wonder how long it will take before crooks start shooting these outta the sky and taking the package. :)

Quote: AcesAndEights

We're living in the future, man.

No, we're not. As a Y-User for 15 years, BRIEFCASE was there with 100Mb storage. you could access, or send any portion of that stored content to anyone on your mail-list by default. Or, you could compose an e-mail and send it to anyone. Naturally 9/11 changed all that, and it had to be reinvented on a massive scale... you see, that briefcase could be encrypted!

Just another way for the government to see what you're up to packaged as "advanced technology". And another reason companies want you to go to cloud based services is it reduces pirated software. Companies like Adobe no longer sell you a stand alone software program you install on and run from your computer. Now you run cloud based applications from their servers and pay a monthly fee. In effect you no longer own the software ap, you rent it.

Quote: rainman

I wonder how long it will take before crooks start shooting these outta the sky and taking the package. :)

MOST GPS applications are "trusted" so the equipment never verifies the GPS signal as to where it is located. It simply accepts the strongest signal. So you can make a drone fly off course by simply giving it a strong but improper signal.
Its already been done with a yacht too, and the crew did not notice, but the owner had given his permission for the experiment to take place.
Can you imagine an oil tanker, which usually has two GPS receivers, being lured onto a reef to rip its bottoms open by twenty five dollars worth of off the shelf equipment?

Love it in concept, hate it in practice. I have no doubt the FAA is hating it, too. Ultralights, RC's, gyrocopters, all that low-altitude stuff was no end of headaches, and several friends were killed in them, too. And how do these things not land on someone's head? What happens when they hit a bird? 1, theorhetically, yes. 100, no, especially when Amazon fulfillment center #29 is no longer the only airborne delivery service. Free commerce and all that, can't give any one company a monopoly running back and forth from hub to delivery points.

Not saying these are unsolvable problems. Just that it'll be a lot longer than they think to get it up and running, and some serious questions before then.

The money is BIG. Other countries are not protecting all their airspace to keep drones out of private hands. Other countries are making great strides in drones.

Agricultural surveillance, pipeline surveillance, mapping, Search And Rescue (wilderness and Suburban), photography, real estate development, mineral prospecting... fortunes are being made elsewhere while the FAA tells American firms to go twiddle their thumbs.

Quote: 98Clubs

No, we're not. As a Y-User for 15 years, BRIEFCASE was there with 100Mb storage. you could access, or send any portion of that stored content to anyone on your mail-list by default. Or, you could compose an e-mail and send it to anyone. Naturally 9/11 changed all that, and it had to be reinvented on a massive scale... you see, that briefcase could be encrypted!

Yeah, i was talking about the drones, not about the cloud.