More expensive or Cheaper City

Are you better off in a cheap part of the country (Harlingen TX is at the bottom) or an expensive part (Manhattan NY is the top)?

Do the higher wages and better career opportunities make it worth living in the more desirable sections, or do wages never keep up with expenses? I realize most of us were partly manipulated by circumstance, but most of us made some kind of choice to go budget or pricey.

Do you regret your decision? Does it depend on your age?

311	Harlingen	TX	213	Albany	GA	114	Orlando	FL
310	Fort Apache	AR	212	Midland	TX	113	Lafayette	LA
309	Pueblo	CO	211	San Antonio	TX	112	Jacksonville	NC
308	Cookeville	TN	210	Huntsville	AL	111	Camden	SC
307	Temple	TX	209	Peoria	IL	110	Burlington	IA
306	Muskogee	OK	208	Wichita	KS	109	Harrisonburg	VA
305	Martinsville-Henry	VA	207	Hattiesburg	MS	108	Montgomery	AL
304	Round	TX	206	Gastonia	NC	107	Clarksville	TN
303	Brownsville	TX	205	Spokane	WA	106	Hot Springs	AR
302	Sherman-Denison	TX	204	Monroe	LA	105	Greenville	NC
301	Cedar City	UT	203	Dayton	OH	104	Janesville	WI
300	Springfield	IL	202	Johnstown	PA	103	Plano	TX
299	Waco	TX	201	Yakima	WA	102	Williamsport-Lycoming	PA
298	McAllen	TX	200	Cedar	IA	101	Bakersfield	CA
297	Fayetteville	AR	199	Bowling	KY	100	Milwaukee-Waukesha	WI
296	Springfield	MO	198	Morristown	TN	99	Cheyenne	WY
295	Memphis	TN	197	Lexington-Buena	VA	98	Kansas	MO-KS
294	Jonesboro	AR	196	Charlotte	NC	97	Las Cruces	NM
293	Conway	AR	195	Cleveland	TN	96	Buffalo	NY
292	Brazoria	TX	194	Texarkana	TX-AR	95	Iowa city	IA
291	Richmond	IN	193	Garden	KS	94	Wilmington	NC
290	Pryor Creek	OK	192	St. Joseph	MO	93	Lawton	OK
289	Murfreesboro-Smyrna	TN	191	Winston-Salem	NC	92	Farmington	NM
288	Kalamazoo	MI	190	Chattanooga	TN	91	Laramie	WY
287	Johnson	TN	189	Evansville	IN	90	Rochester	NY
286	Lubbock	TX	188	Mankato	MN	89	Sierra	AZ
285	Ardmore	OK	187	Lincoln	NE	88	Charleston	SC
284	Salina	KS	186	Cincinnati	OH	87	Plattsburgh	NY
283	Covington	KY	185	Kennewick-Richland-Pasco	WA	86	Gainesville	FL
282	Grand Rapids	MI	184	Charleston	WV	85	Davenport-Moline-Rock	IA-IL
281	Thomasville-Lexington	NC	183	Bradenton	FL	84	Missoula	MT
280	Paducah	KY	182	Galesburg	IL	83	Sarasota	FL
279	Paris	TX	181	Rio Rancho	NM	82	Yuma	AZ
278	Palm	FL	180	Austin	TX	81	Akron	OH
277	Lexington	KY	179	Arlington	TX	80	Ithaca	NY
276	Oklahoma	OK	178	Elkhart-Goshen	IN	79	Grand	CO
275	Decatur	IL	177	Sumter	SC	78	Las Vegas	NV
274	Wooster	OH	176	Nacogdoches	TX	77	Binghamton	NY
273	Idaho Falls	ID	175	Lynchburg	VA	76	Minot	ND
272	Birmingham	AL	174	BatonRouge	LA	75	Dover	DE
271	Corpus Christi	TX	173	Augusta-Aiken	GA-SC	74	Harrisburg	PA
270	Ponca	OK	172	Carlsbad	NM	73	Rochester	MN
269	Knoxville	TN	171	Lima	OH	72	Richmond	VA
268	Wichita	TX	170	San Antonio	TX	71	Pierre	SD
267	Tulsa	OK	169	Appleton	WI	70	Asheville	NC
266	Dothan	AL	168	Jacksonville	FL	69	Cleveland	OH
265	Florence	AL	167	Topeka	KS	68	York	PA
264	Tupelo	MS	166	Bismarck-Mandan	ND	67	Beaufort	SC
263	Columbus	OH	165	Beaumont	TX	66	Morgantown	WV
262	Eau Claire	WI	164	Rock-L	AR	65	Bozeman	MT
261	Decatur-Hartselle	AL	163	Manhattan	KS	64	Winchester	VA-WV
260	Rockford	IL	162	Burlington	NC	63	Olympia	WA
259	Omaha	NE	161	Pittsburgh	PA	62	Fitchburg-Leominster	MA
258	Danville	IL	160	Lake Charles	LA	61	Lancaster	PA
257	Houston	TX	159	Tucson	AZ	60	Denver	CO
256	Danville City	VA	158	Twin Falls	ID	59	Hampton	VA
255	Muncie	IN	157	Blacksburg	VA	58	Wilmington	DE
254	Detroit	MI	156	Tuscaloosa	AL	57	Prescott-Prescott	AZ
253	Weatherford	TX	155	Durham	NC	56	Pittsfield	MA
252	Douglas	GA	154	Salt Lake city	UT	55	Miami-Dade	FL
251	Jackson-Madison	TN	153	Waterloo-Cedar	IA	54	Eugene	OR
250	Nashville-Franklin	TN	152	Green	WI	53	Tacoma	WA
249	Dodge	KS	151	St. George	UT	52	Dare County	NC
248	Conroe	TX	150	Valdosta	GA	51	Madison	WI
247	San Angelo	TX	149	Jackson	MS	50	Gunnison	CO
246	South	IN	148	Raleigh	NC	49	Fresno	CA
245	Mason	IA	147	Clarksburg	WV	48	Los Alamos	NM
244	Marion-McDowell	NC	146	Atlanta	GA	47	Everett	WA
243	Dyersburg	TN	145	Kinston	NC	46	St. Paul	MN
242	Punta	FL	144	Staunton-Augusta	VA	45	Portland	OR
241	Louisville	KY	143	Lawrence	KS	44	Albany	NY
240	Columbia	MO	142	Vero	FL	43	Minneapolis	MN
239	Denton	TX	141	Indiana	PA	42	Riverside	CA
238	Odessa	TX	140	Dallas	TX	41	Hilton Head	SC
237	St. Louis	MO-IL	139	Ames	IA	40	Fort	FL
236	Erie	PA	138	Champaign-Urbana	IL	39	Portland	ME
235	Anderson	SC	137	St. Cloud	MN	38	Bellingham	WA
234	El Paso	TX	136	Jefferson City	MO	37	Chapel Hill	NC
233	Anniston-Calhoun	AL	135	Reno-Sparks	NV	36	Flagstaff	AZ
232	Joplin	MO	134	Phoenix	AZ	35	Chicago	IL
231	Enid	OK	133	Hutchinson	KS	34	Sacramento	CA
230	Athens-Henderson	TX	132	Shreveport-Bossier	LA	33	Glenwood	CO
229	Norman	OK	131	Marietta	GA	32	Seattle	WA
228	Stillwater	OK	130	Lafayette	IN	31	Baltimore	MD
227	Roanoke	VA	129	Kalispell	MT	30	Manchester	NH
226	Greenville	SC	128	Hastings	NE	29	Palm	CA
225	Mobile	AL	127	Quincy	IL	28	Dutchess County	NY
224	Savannah	GA	126	Tyler	TX	27	Burlington-Chittenden	VT
223	Amarillo	TX	125	Wausau	WI	26	Hartford	CT
222	Edmond	OK	124	Myrtle	SC	25	Kodiak	AK
221	Colorado	CO	123	Boise	ID	24	Philadelphia	PA
220	Hammond	LA	122	Marshfield	WI	23	Providence	RI
219	Pascagoula	MS	121	Cape	FL	22	Middlesex-Monmouth	NJ
218	Youngstown-Warren	OH	120	Auburn-Opelika	AL	21	Bethesda-Gaithersburg-Frederick	MD
217	Fort worth	TX	119	Fort Wayne	IN	20	Anchorage	AK
216	Lufkin	TX	118	Findlay	OH	19	San Diego	CA
215	Tampa	FL	117	Columbia	SC	18	Newark-Elizabeth	NJ
214	Des Moines	IA	116	Dubuque	IA	17	Los Angeles	CA
213	Fargo-Moorhead	ND-MN	115	Slidell-St.	LA	16	Bergen-Passaic	NJ
						15	Boston	MA
						14	Oakland	CA
						13	Fairbanks	AK
						12	Juneau	AK
						11	Nassau County	NY
						10	Washington-Arlington-Alexandria	DC-VA
						9	Orange	CA
						8	Truckee-Nevada	CA
						7	Stamford	CT
						6	San Jose	CA
						5	(Queens)	NY
						4	San Francisco	CA
						3	Honolulu	HI
						2	(Brooklyn)	NY
						1	(Manhattan)	NY

The chart is confusing, what does it mean. There aren't
any numbers or rankings.

Quote: EvenBob

The chart is confusing, what does it mean. There aren't any numbers or rankings.

I said Harlingen TX was the cheapest, and Manhattan was the most expensive. But I put ranking numbers in the chart

I've lived in high-cost COLA areas with a dog of an economy and mid-cost places where it was easier to get hired. Most important is to be flexible and move when you need to, until you find your spot. Rochester, NY high cost I was lucky if I had interviews a week when job searching while in lower-cost AZ (by the chart, anyways, housing in AZ was crazy at the time) during one search I had an unbelievable 19 interviews in one week!

Smaller towns seem to have just a handfull of major employers while the bigger, and higher COLA places, have many mid-size employers to choose from.

I was not surprised by #10 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria DC-VA but shocked at #21 especially Frederick,MD.
Used to drive through there enroute to Charlestown Race Track from Baltimore. Is there any industry there, or is it just the overflow of federal employees has spread to this location, an hour away from DC ?

Quote: buzzpaff

I was not surprised by #10 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria DC-VA but shocked at #21 especially Frederick,MD.
Used to drive through there enroute to Charlestown Race Track from Baltimore. Is there any industry there, or is it just the overflow of federal employees has spread to this location, an hour away from DC ?

Frederick is mostly a bedroom community, but Gaithersburg has a lot of jobs.

Thanks Paco. Suspected the same. Were some beautiful horse farms in Frederick County. One had a whitewash 3 rail fence that seemed to go on for miles. also #221 is Colorado Springs, Colorado

Quote: buzzpaff

I was not surprised by #10 Washington-Arlington-Alexandria DC-VA but shocked at #21 especially Frederick,MD.
Used to drive through there enroute to Charlestown Race Track from Baltimore. Is there any industry there, or is it just the overflow of federal employees has spread to this location, an hour away from DC ?

It's not just the Feds anymore - here where I work in Alexandria I know of people that commute from Fredrick, Annapolis, Warrenton va and Fredericksburg va. In the last decade a lot of homes and people moved to the metro area. Since Dc metro is pricey in terms of real estate compared to much of the country, I believe the growth in the suburbs is tied to not wanting a 4000 mortgage payment. This doesn't include the super commuters who live in Richmond va or north of Baltimore.

-B

I have several considerations when choosing where to live. For me, I need to be close to an airport in case I need to go anywhere for my job (my job almost exclusively involves travel) and I need to be close to my kid (who lives in New York State), so I chose Niagara Falls. It's not a preference, and when my kid gets out of high school, we're going to buy whatever we can afford in Vancouver, BC. The day to day lifestyle is very important to me, and I know that we prefer a sophisticated, big city lifestyle over the burbs or a rural area. We only live once, after all, so why not go with the best of the best. Vancouver offers great job opportunities, has a nice airport, good transportation, and is among one of the most beautiful places to live in the world. It's also one of the most expensive.

But if you're not going to "go for it", then I would recommend a burb somewhere where the housing is cheapest, you're close to an airport (for me anyway) and can fulfill the basic needs of living. There's no point of living somewhere expensive if it isn't enjoyable.

You really need to consider the opportunities in each location.

I live in Denver, which is pretty high on the list. I used to live in Austin, which is much lower on the list, but the jobs pay higher for tech and there are as many or more opportunities.

You have listed "Round, TX" which is either Round Top or Round Rock. I'm guessing it is Round Rock, a suburb of Austin. This may be the perfect place financially, because it's cheap to live and you have many opportunities and high salaries.

I also see Pueblo, CO way down on the list, but I would never want to live there and the salaries are low, so it would be no real benefit to move there unless you're retired.

I wouldn't give that chart too much credit.

Three of New York City's five boroughs are listed individually, and they made the top 5, but the other two boroughs aren't listed anywhere! What's the criteria for inclusion?

Quote: pacomartin

Do you regret your decision? Does it depend on your age?

I'm not sure many people make any "decision." It's more where life takes you.

I.E. If your job transfers you, does that count as a "decision" to move to a particular area?

If you pick a specific area, and move there, OK, that's a decision. But I think in many cases, it's other circumstances that causes a person to move.


For what it's worth, combined and ranked at #16 are Bergen County NJ, where I grew up, and it's neighbor Passaic County, where I now live. Although I lived outside of those two counties for a few years in the early 90's, it was only a couple miles outside. Does that really count as "decision" to leave and return?

What's the source for this chart? What criteria did they use? I'm guessing real estate counts for a lot.

I can't say I'm particularly surprised by any of the rankings, but I am surprised that only three Michigan metro areas made the list (Detroit, Kalamazoo, Grand Rapids). It must be a reporting issue.

Oh, and to answer the original question... I don't have a good answer, because it all depends. I guess the best of worlds is a great job in a cheap location and the worst is a minimum wage suck job in one of the big cities on the coast (or its posher suburbs). Except, of course, if you need to have fun.

Quote: fremont4ever

What's the source for this chart? What criteria did they use? I'm guessing real estate counts for a lot.

C2ER Council for Community and Economic Research-is an organization created in 1961. They do these calculations every quarter. C2ER used a composite index based on Grocery items, Housing, Utilities,Transportation, Health care, and Misc. goods and services. There calculations are proprietary, and they sell their reports. You can do a ranking based on any one of these individual items (i.e. Housing alone). I only did a simple ranking without showing the actual numbers since it would be using their data without their permission. Their methodology is complex, but I would assume that real estate is very significant.

Some of the ranking positions are surprising to me. It's long been true that Southern Texas is the cheapest place in the country to live, it's also the most ethnically Mexican of the larger regions of the country. And Honolulu, Manhattan, San Francisco,etc. you expect to be near the top.

But some Eastern cities that have little or no services and very high rates of violent crime are also among the most expensive. You would think that real estate would be dirt cheap. Just what you want in a city: cold, expensive, and violent.

Quote: pacomartin

C2ER used a composite index based on Grocery items, Housing, Utilities,Transportation, Health care, and Misc. goods and services. There calculations are proprietary, and they sell their reports.

Stating that Newark-Elizabeth is more expensive (fancier?) than Middlesex-Monmouth elicits a big guffaw that will no doubt continue as I tell others about this one.

Quote: DJTeddyBear

Three of New York City's five boroughs are listed individually, and they made the top 5, but the other two boroughs aren't listed anywhere! What's the criteria for inclusion?

WSJ Blog on this list

This list got a lot of attention last October when it was released. But as the list an the explanation of methodology are for sale at a high price, I can't answer all of your questions. I took off the percentages assigned to each city, as that information is presumably proprietary. Most articles only published the top 10-15 and bottom 10-15..

PARTICIPATING AREAS: Areas included in this survey are those where organizations have volunteered to participate. The number of respondents varies from quarter to quarter, and C2ER makes a continuing effort to expand coverage of metropolitan areas. Any metropolitan area not represented in this report is absent because local organizations have opted not to collect data.


raw data is here

Quote: SanchoPanza

Stating that Newark-Elizabeth is more expensive (fancier?) than Middlesex-Monmouth elicits a big guffaw that will no doubt continue as I tell others about this one.

Newark-Elizabeth NJ received a composite index of 132.8% while Middlesex-Monmouth NJ was graded 127.9%. So the difference is not that severe.

Housing, Miscellaneous goods, Transportation, and Utilities were judged to be higher, Health care was lower in Newark-Elizabeth, and Grocery Items were identical. It is difficult to know the precise boundaries of each area.

Cost of Living does not always reflect quality. A community where home ownership has been relatively long term may have lower mortgages than a community of renters.

I never know how they get this crap. GIGO. Listing Buffalo as more expensive than Pittsburgh is just plain silly. My house in a comparable Pittsburgh neighborhood is less than half as expensive. When my son was in Pittsburgh we would go out to eat at equivalent qulaity restaurants that were double what they cost in Buffalo. Even a hockey season ticket is gobs more in Pittsburgh, as is a football season ticket. I had to go downtown and we had to pay $1 per hour to park here in Buffalo, midday. One of my jobs is to recruit doctors to come to Buffalo, not always an easy task. One of the main selling points is the ridiculously low cost of living here. When I show someone a house and what it costs, they often do not believe me. I work with many nurses who make about $60k per year. In Buffalo they are homeowners.

Quote: SOOPOO

I never know how they get this crap. GIGO. Listing Buffalo as more expensive than Pittsburgh is just plain silly.

It's probably comparing 'greater Pittsburgh' with 'greater Buffalo'. The actual city of Pittsburgh is fairly expensive and nice. Pittsburgh is one of those relatively rare cities where the suburbs are slummy and much more violent than center city.