3x 4x 5x odds seems silly

Quote: Jaahhx

Am I right that strategies like 3 way Molly are pointless because the come bets that allow you to bet 3x or 4x or 5x rolls mean that strategy is the equivalent of put bets instead of pass line bets?!?!

Quote: Jaahhx

If I bet $10 and max odds on 6 and 8 I win $70 but if I just bet $60 before the come out roll I win the same $70 every time it hits.
The math is similar for the 5 and 9 when I bet $10 plus 4x odds I win $70 but a direct bet of $50 pays the same $70

Am I right that strategies like 3 way Molly are pointless because the come bets that allow you to bet 3x or 4x or 5x rolls mean that strategy is the equivalent of put bets instead of pass line bets?!?!

I can’t figure out the math on buy vs don’t pass plus max odds. Is buying a point better strategy?
link to original post

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Quote: ChumpChange

Betting $30 on the line and $180, $240, or $300 odds on a 10X Odds table (6X, 8X, 10X odds).
You lose your 1.41% HA on the $30 line bet and the odds bets pay proper so those have a 0% HA. The vig is in your line bet. After about 7,100 line bets, that vig adds up.to about 100 line bets lost to the HA. If you were betting 11X the line bet amount on the PB 6 or 8, after 7,100 bets you'd be down 1179 line bets worth. If you were betting 9X the line bet amount on the PB 5 or 9, after 7,100 bets you'd be down 2,556 line bets worth. If you were betting 7X the line bet amount on buying the 4 or 10 @ 4.76% HA, after 7,100 bets you'd be down 2,366 line bets worth. So as another avid line bettor with odds would say, never make Place Bets, always play line bets with max odds.
link to original post

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Sure I do. PERFORM it at the tables. I am beyond confident it has NEVER been done.

tuttigym
link to original post

Quote: ChumpChange

$390 X 25 = $9,750; call it $10K buy-in. Want to add a come bet, double it. Want to add a 3rd come bet, double it again. Want to make it 4 come bets, $50K to start. I'm sure another poster who no longer comes around would lower those buy-ins based on the vagaries of come bets and their introductions; but that's what I'm starting with, if ever.
This is for a $25 table.
link to original post

Quote: unJon

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Sure I do. PERFORM it at the tables. I am beyond confident it has NEVER been done.

tuttigym
link to original post

If we had 1,000 people all play PL for $10 for 1,000 rolls (PL decisions) you think none would be down $140?

What do you think they would be up or down?

Or do you mean no one has ever played 1,000 times and only bet PL?

I’m legit confused.
link to original post

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Sure I do. PERFORM it at the tables. I am beyond confident it has NEVER been done.

tuttigym
link to original post

If we had 1,000 people all play PL for $10 for 1,000 rolls (PL decisions) you think none would be down $140?

What do you think they would be up or down?

Or do you mean no one has ever played 1,000 times and only bet PL?

I’m legit confused.
link to original post

Thanks unJon for the very good questions.

1. Yes, none would be down exactly $140.
2. I can't give you a definitive answer as to up or down, I am beyond confident that none would be down exactly $140. An educated guess for me is that the vast majority would be down.
3. Craps players don't go to the table to make one even money bet for an entire session in hopes of winning big $$$. The game is too dynamic to stand there for 1,000 come outs and not collapse from boredom. So, no, no one has ever played 1,000 times and only PL bet? While I realize that is an over-the-top absolute statement, unless proved wrong, I believe it to be correct.

tuttigym
link to original post

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Sure I do. PERFORM it at the tables. I am beyond confident it has NEVER been done.

tuttigym
link to original post

If we had 1,000 people all play PL for $10 for 1,000 rolls (PL decisions) you think none would be down $140?

What do you think they would be up or down?

Or do you mean no one has ever played 1,000 times and only bet PL?

I’m legit confused.
link to original post

Thanks unJon for the very good questions.

1. Yes, none would be down exactly $140.
2. I can't give you a definitive answer as to up or down, I am beyond confident that none would be down exactly $140. An educated guess for me is that the vast majority would be down.
3. Craps players don't go to the table to make one even money bet for an entire session in hopes of winning big $$$. The game is too dynamic to stand there for 1,000 come outs and not collapse from boredom. So, no, no one has ever played 1,000 times and only PL bet? While I realize that is an over-the-top absolute statement, unless proved wrong, I believe it to be correct.

tuttigym
link to original post

My first trip to Vegas was on a ‘junket’. Two couples. To get everything for ‘free’ we had to play 20 hours at a table. Back then there were plenty of $5 tables. My wife and I played 5$ blackjack and I believe fulfilled our requirement quite quickly. Like in the first 28 hours!! The other couple had a girl who had no knowledge of, nor interest in, gambling! She was shown how to just be pass line on craps. She was a plain looking girl, dressed plain, and acted ‘plain’. But for whatever reason a big gambler at the table would bet odds for her when she was rolling. For those few hours she must have won $100 or more.
The rest of the time she just treaded water, and made her requirement.
What I remember was we were given a card which we needed the pit boss to fill out when we were leaving the table!

So I don’t know how many boring pass line bets she made, but it was enough to fill 20 hours. If I remember she said that at the end she won exactly $140.

(OK…. I made that last part up….)
link to original post

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Sure I do. PERFORM it at the tables. I am beyond confident it has NEVER been done.

tuttigym
link to original post

If we had 1,000 people all play PL for $10 for 1,000 rolls (PL decisions) you think none would be down $140?

What do you think they would be up or down?

Or do you mean no one has ever played 1,000 times and only bet PL?

I’m legit confused.
link to original post

Thanks unJon for the very good questions.

1. Yes, none would be down exactly $140.
2. I can't give you a definitive answer as to up or down, I am beyond confident that none would be down exactly $140. An educated guess for me is that the vast majority would be down.
3. Craps players don't go to the table to make one even money bet for an entire session in hopes of winning big $$$. The game is too dynamic to stand there for 1,000 come outs and not collapse from boredom. So, no, no one has ever played 1,000 times and only PL bet? While I realize that is an over-the-top absolute statement, unless proved wrong, I believe it to be correct.

tuttigym
link to original post

My first trip to Vegas was on a ‘junket’. Two couples. To get everything for ‘free’ we had to play 20 hours at a table. Back then there were plenty of $5 tables. My wife and I played 5$ blackjack and I believe fulfilled our requirement quite quickly. Like in the first 28 hours!! The other couple had a girl who had no knowledge of, nor interest in, gambling! She was shown how to just be pass line on craps. She was a plain looking girl, dressed plain, and acted ‘plain’. But for whatever reason a big gambler at the table would bet odds for her when she was rolling. For those few hours she must have won $100 or more.
The rest of the time she just treaded water, and made her requirement.
What I remember was we were given a card which we needed the pit boss to fill out when we were leaving the table!

So I don’t know how many boring pass line bets she made, but it was enough to fill 20 hours. If I remember she said that at the end she won exactly $140.

(OK…. I made that last part up….)
link to original post

First, SOOPOO I appreciate your sense of humor. Second, a slight mistake, if she "won" $140, she turned the edge to the player at 1.41%. That is absolute heresy, and the Wizard will be upset to say the least. But carry on anyway.

tuttigym
link to original post

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Quote: DRich

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: tuttigym

Quote: unJon

Tuttigym going to love the OP.

SOOPOO gives the answer. The come out roll is a positive for the player.
link to original post

Thanks for thinking of me. So, a net 11% of the time it is a positive on that one roll come out. To me, that is a pretty low possible return. The flip side for me is that after a point is established, the odds and probabilities of losing that PL bet increase dramatically. One other thing, SOOPOO, if it is such a great bet why is it the vast majority of players bet the table minimum?

tuttigym
link to original post

Where did I say it was a great bet? I just stated a fact.
The pass line bet is like most bets in n the casino, bad, just not as bad as most. 1.4% house edge.
link to original post

Sorry, SOOPOO I misinterpreted your use of "positive."

I doubt that anyone could point to a player session where the player only bet the PL no other bets for 3 hrs of play at a $10 table and lost only $.14. (cents)

tuttigym
link to original post

In your example it would be $0.14 for each game played on a $10 bet.
link to original post

The better question is how many are down exactly $140 after 1,000 pass line bets. But Tuttigym doesn’t like that one.
link to original post

Sure I do. PERFORM it at the tables. I am beyond confident it has NEVER been done.

tuttigym
link to original post

If we had 1,000 people all play PL for $10 for 1,000 rolls (PL decisions) you think none would be down $140?

What do you think they would be up or down?

Or do you mean no one has ever played 1,000 times and only bet PL?

I’m legit confused.
link to original post

Thanks unJon for the very good questions.

1. Yes, none would be down exactly $140.
2. I can't give you a definitive answer as to up or down, I am beyond confident that none would be down exactly $140. An educated guess for me is that the vast majority would be down.
3. Craps players don't go to the table to make one even money bet for an entire session in hopes of winning big $$$. The game is too dynamic to stand there for 1,000 come outs and not collapse from boredom. So, no, no one has ever played 1,000 times and only PL bet? While I realize that is an over-the-top absolute statement, unless proved wrong, I believe it to be correct.

tuttigym
link to original post

My first trip to Vegas was on a ‘junket’. Two couples. To get everything for ‘free’ we had to play 20 hours at a table. Back then there were plenty of $5 tables. My wife and I played 5$ blackjack and I believe fulfilled our requirement quite quickly. Like in the first 28 hours!! The other couple had a girl who had no knowledge of, nor interest in, gambling! She was shown how to just be pass line on craps. She was a plain looking girl, dressed plain, and acted ‘plain’. But for whatever reason a big gambler at the table would bet odds for her when she was rolling. For those few hours she must have won $100 or more.
The rest of the time she just treaded water, and made her requirement.
What I remember was we were given a card which we needed the pit boss to fill out when we were leaving the table!

So I don’t know how many boring pass line bets she made, but it was enough to fill 20 hours. If I remember she said that at the end she won exactly $140.

(OK…. I made that last part up….)
link to original post

First, SOOPOO I appreciate your sense of humor. Second, a slight mistake, if she "won" $140, she turned the edge to the player at 1.41%. That is absolute heresy, and the Wizard will be upset to say the least. But carry on anyway.

tuttigym
link to original post

She was playing with a BIG EDGE. Having someone else betting FOR you on the odds every 10th roller so tilts the table your way.

But to be serious, it’s kind of sad that you just can’t get a grip on what Expected Value is, and more importantly, what it ISN’T!
link to original post