darkoz
darkoz 
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 1:18:35 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

The Blackjack game is only a better bet when trying to convert free play into credits you can cash out. If you play a hundred hands at $1 each you will turn $1 in FP into $2 cash when you win, and $1 for ties. When using your own money, a push doesn't pay, but using FP ,it does



Coach, Bill is probably explaining it better than I am.

This thread is about Freeplay specifically and the best way to turn it into cash
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
AlanMendelson
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 1:28:37 PM permalink
Coach, the language in video poker is misleading.

What is called a "win" can in fact be only a push.

In Bonus and JOB for example, a pair of Jacks is called a win but it's actually a push.

However here is what happens (example):

You bet $5.
You are dealt a pair of Jacks.
On the redraw your pair of Jacks does not improve.
The machine keeps the $5 that you bet.
The machine pays you $5 for the pair of Jacks.

That is called a win.
Its actually a draw because the game keeps your $5 that was bet.
coachbelly
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 1:52:47 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

The Blackjack game is only a better bet when trying to convert free play into credits you can cash out. If you play a hundred hands at $1 each you will turn $1 in FP into $2 cash when you win, and $1 for ties. When using your own money, a push doesn't pay, but using FP ,it does



A push converts FP to cash with VP too, and at the same rate as VBJ.

It doesn't matter whether the game's screen displays "WIN" or "PUSH' for a 1 for 1 payout...it's the same resolution, and that requires "achieving" the same (or nearly the same) odds.

Whether you download FP or insert cash, you still wager and win or lose credits.

Is it mathematically more likely for a player to win credits on VBJ than 9/6 JOB?

That's the only explanation of why VBJ could be a better bet.
coachbelly
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 2:06:34 PM permalink
Quote: AlanMendelson

The machine keeps the $5 that you bet.
The machine pays you $5 for the pair of Jacks.



I'm not mislead by the VP language, I understand that a push is a push, even if the VP screen displays "WIN".

Are you asserting that your scenario above is different than the machine returning your initial wager to you?

If you wager 5 credits on VP, your pair of jacks returns 5 credits...it's a push, your initial wager gets returned to you, and you have won zero credits.

If you wager 5 credits on VBJ and tie the hand...it's a push, your initial wager gets returned to you, and you have won zero credits.

FP or cash, these scenarios produce the exact same results.

It sounds like DO is asserting that VBJ will return more credits using FP than 9/6 JOB will, but he seems to be confused by the terminology displayed on the screens.

I believe his point is that VBJ pays more for a "min" win, than VP does.

But he's wrong...a 2 for 1 two pair is a min win on VP, a 1 for 1 pair of jacks is a push.
OnceDear
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 2:12:20 PM permalink
Quote: coachbelly

I'm not mislead by the VP language, I understand that a push is a push, even if the VP screen displays "WIN".

Are you asserting that your scenario above is different than the machine returning your initial wager to you?

If you wager 5 credits on VP, your pair of jacks returns 5 credits...it's a push, your initial wager gets returned to you, and you have won zero credits.

If you wager 5 credits on VBJ and tie the hand...it's a push, your initial wager gets returned to you, and you have won zero credits.

FP or cash, these scenarios produce the exact same results.

Not following too closely, but isn't the point that the VP explicitly treats this tie as a win and so absolutely converts the FP to cashable winnings where the BJ might call it a tie and not convert the FP to cashable?
Beware. The earth is NOT flat. Hit and run is not a winning strategy: Pressing into trends IS not a winning strategy: Progressives are not a winning strategy: Don't Buy It! .Don't even take it for free.
Mission146
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August 8th, 2021 at 2:20:53 PM permalink
The entire last two pages of this thread seem to be predicated on the notion that a Free Play bet works differently from a cash bet.

If you push on VBJ, then you are paid 1-FOR-1.

If you get a high pair on JoB, then you are paid 1-FOR-1.

Video Poker refers to this as a, “Winning hand,” but you have pushed monetarily. You don’t play VP against a dealer, so it’s not called a, “Push,” it’s called a win.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
coachbelly
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 2:20:56 PM permalink
Quote: OnceDear

Not following too closely, but isn't the point that the VP explicitly treats this tie as a win and so absolutely converts the FP to cashable winnings where the BJ might call it a tie and not convert the FP to cashable?



From my experience, FP is a "bet it once" proposition...on any machine or table game.

As Dieter explains, once wagered the machine captures the FP, and returns cashable credits after the hand is resolved.

Quote: Dieter

VBJ takes freeplay or cash funded credits as coin in and pays cashable coinout credits.
0 for 1 for a loss.
1 for 1 for a push (tie).
2 for 1 for a win.
Various other payouts are possible in the event of splits and doubles.

Mission146
Mission146
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August 8th, 2021 at 2:27:18 PM permalink
Also, the free play itself can appear two different ways.

1. Most common in my experience, when you load free play, it adds credits to your balance as if you added cash, but you can’t cash out until these have been, “Run through,” once.

You can cash out any cash from before or winnings, but free play credits will remain until they have been played once.

2. The other way I have seen, but is less common in my experience only, is that the Free Play is, “Attached,” to the card…so only winnings show up as credits on the machine and whatever credit balance is actually on the machine is cashable.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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August 8th, 2021 at 2:37:08 PM permalink
One variant of #2 is that the free play is attached to the card, but then you also must have a sufficient amount of (cash) credits on the machine to cover the bet.

So, the cash credits on the machine are reduced, but then the amount comes out of the free play on a loss and replenishes the credits, or on a win, you get whatever amount was won and the free play is converted to cash credits.

I think a few people have been perhaps talking past one another and getting confused because of the different ways the machines can handle free play.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
coachbelly
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Mission146
August 8th, 2021 at 2:41:39 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

The entire last two pages of this thread seem to be predicated on the notion that a Free Play bet works differently from a cash bet.

If you push on VBJ, then you are paid 1-FOR-1.

If you get a high pair on JoB, then you are paid 1-FOR-1.

Video Poker refers to this as a, “Winning hand,” but you have pushed monetarily. You don’t play VP against a dealer, so it’s not called a, “Push,” it’s called a win.



You are, of course, correct.

Can you comment on this?...

Quote: darkoz

I'm making the point that having to achieve 2:1 odds isn't the same as having to only achieve 1:1 odds for the same payout.



DO is explaining the difference between a 2-pair "min win" in VP (where the player wins the amount of his initial wager) and a VBJ "min win" winning hand.

Since the VP initial wager is returned as part of the payout, VP pays 2:1 for a min win, whereas in VBJ the initial wager remains in the betting circle, so VBJ pays 1:1 for a min win.

Therefore, he seems to be asserting that a VP min win must be harder to achieve than a VBJ winning hand.

Is he correct?

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