James Grosjohn
I would appreciate any comments from those of you who have knowledge of the book.
Thank you
Matilda.
Quote: WizardIt is Grosjean. I reviewed it in my book reviews. I don't know enough about your situation to say if it is worth spending your Santa points on.
Thanks for the spelling correction. In the past I was a BJ counter and had some success at it at fairly low stakes but haven't played for some years. I may have an opportunity to reside near Nevada in the next year and am thinking of bringing myself up to date to the current state of the "art". I am familiar with books such as Griffin and Ethier & Eadington plus the usual primers such as Wong, Thorp, Revere etc. I am also looking to branch out to other games. Math is no problem.
I thought about posting a similar comment earlier, but then I remembered a few bibles printed by Gutenberg and decided there might be other things to consider. ;-)Quote: EvenBobNo book is worth $250, ...
Quote: DocI thought about posting a similar comment earlier, but then I remembered a few bibles printed by Gutenberg and decided there might be other things to consider. ;-)
I meant no current book is worth that much. Obviously there are antique books worth thousands. If somebody wants $250, he plans on selling very few, doesn't have much to say, and is looking for a few suckers.
Quote: EvenBobI meant no current book is worth that much. Obviously there are antique books worth thousands. If somebody wants $250, he plans on selling very few, doesn't have much to say, and is looking for a few suckers.
To play the devil's advocate (ahem), I think Grosjean would say that he doesn't want too many people with their hands on what he has to say, lest the advantage plays be ruined. His first edition was more moderately priced, I think at about $75, but had a very limited printing. I was lucky to buy one before they sold out. After they sold out, and before the second edition, the first edition was going for around $500 each on EBay. That probably also had something to do about where he set his price point.
Quote: WizardTo play the devil's advocate (ahem), I think Grosjean would say that he doesn't want too many people with their hands on what he has to say, lest the advantage plays be ruined. His first edition was more moderately priced, I think at about $75, but had a very limited printing. I was lucky to buy one before they sold out. After they sold out, and before the second edition, the first edition was going for around $500 each on EBay. That probably also had something to do about where he set his price point.
Was it worth $75, in your opinion?
Quote: EvenBobI meant no current book is worth that much. Obviously there are antique books worth thousands. If somebody wants $250, he plans on selling very few, doesn't have much to say, and is looking for a few suckers.
Some very technical books sell for $250, because there is a very limited market for those books, the author has a lot to say to those people, and they want that information to perform their jobs/further their studies etc (for example :: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Parallel-Computing-David-Padua/dp/0387097651/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291161738&sr=1-1). Libraries will mainly be the target for such books. Most of the technical/academic text books though ran to the $100-$150 mark when I was reading them regularly. In the library, I hasten to add.
It's that or a very artistic book full of big full colour prints (I think there's been a few sports journalism books that have sold for $1000 with bunches of prints, signatures and the like). I can't find the refs, but I think there's been a coffee table history of Manchester United, the Dallas Cowboys and the NY Yankees that have sold for that sort of figure, new.
Whether any of them are worth their binder price, I leave as an exercise to the reader.
Quote: EvenBobWas it worth $75, in your opinion?
$75 was a fair price. You have to judge the purchase on a case by case basis. For the very vast majority, his level will be way too advanced, and the book as useless as a Hong Kong phone book to an earthquake survivor in Haiti. However, for the most serious APs, especially hole carders, it might be worth thousands. I'm in an unusual situation, so you shouldn't go by my utility.
Quote: thecesspitSome very technical books sell for $250, because there is a very limited market for those books, the author has a lot to say to those people, and they want that information to perform their jobs/further their studies etc (for example :: http://www.amazon.com/Encyclopedia-Parallel-Computing-David-Padua/dp/0387097651/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1291161738&sr=1-1). Libraries will mainly be the target for such books. Most of the technical/academic text books though ran to the $100-$150 mark when I was reading them regularly. In the library, I hasten to add.
It's that or a very artistic book full of big full colour prints (I think there's been a few sports journalism books that have sold for $1000 with bunches of prints, signatures and the like). I can't find the refs, but I think there's been a coffee table history of Manchester United, the Dallas Cowboys and the NY Yankees that have sold for that sort of figure, new.
Whether any of them are worth their binder price, I leave as an exercise to the reader.
There's a sucker born every minute. I would pay for scarcity and future value, nothing else.
I value the books by their contents and the value of the knowledge they'll give me.
The people buying the former types of books (or the libraries doing so) are not suckers, in my opinion. For example, a couple of Springer-Verlag Lecture Note series books, they were easily worth the $120 cover price -to me- (actually, they were probably that in pounds Sterling). Luckily, I didn't have to pay for them, but I'd probably not be doing what I am doing now if I had learnt some of the stuff in there. A quick search reveals that some of them are now online and available for free... not a luxury I had 12 years back. Ho-hum.
The people buying the latter... maybe suckers, and may also think there's future value. I'm certainly not paying a grand for a shiny book on any subject.
Quote: thecesspit
I value the books by their contents and the value of the knowledge they'll give me.
If a book costs more than other current books are going for, I won't buy it. I was into buying and selling rare books in the mid 90's and learned to stay away from any book thats sold as a collectible. Their value almost always plummets as time goes on. I bought 250 leather bound Easton Press books at an auction once, and sold them individually on Ebay in the late 90's and tripled my money. Those same books are now selling for half what I paid for them. I just happened to be in the right place where buyers thought they would go up in value.
Quote: DeMangoIf this book was the only one on several subjects, and it can lead to money way above it's price then it is worth it. It is, it is, therefore it is. So Bob is gonna argue he doesn't see the need for the technical expertise. Over 650 pages, no fluff.
Its like that casino security book by Steve Forte a couple years ago, it was what, $200? Everything in that book is now somewhere on the net, save your money. Now, there's 'Gambling 102' by Michael Shackleford for $14.95, its a reasonably priced book with a wealth of info that I'd gladly buy.
Quote: DeMangoReally Bob? Does The Wizard tell you how to make money?? No, so your $14.95 is good money after bad? Okay so maybe you go to the casino and lose less, you bet the better bet. It's apples and oranges, it's flown over your head.
If Grosjean really knew how to make money, he'd be in the casino making it instead of telling people how to do it in a book. And don't tell me he's too well known. The disguises they have now can fool a players own mother.
Quote: matildaI am making out my list to send to Santa and I was wondering if I should include Beyond Counting (Exhibit CCA) by James Grosjean on my list. It costs $250, so it is an important decision since Santa's funds are diminished this year.
I would appreciate any comments from those of you who have knowledge of the book.
Thank you
Matilda.
It's exhibit CAA - only one C. That C stands for a strip casino and shows Mr. Grosjean's sense of humor once you know the story behind the letters.
I read his first book four years ago at the UNLV Library after discovering on another forum that it was there. At that time the book was not loaned out to anyone and had to be read on the premises. Only 1000 copies were printed and that was the only one I could get my hands on. I believe the book sold for $40 when it first came out.
It's not strictly a blackjack book which was all I was interested in. Grosjean analyzes several games including the Big Six wheel of all things. I faltered on some of the math and didn't get a lot from some of the other things such as the hole carding advice. I still consider the book a good read and wish I had a copy.
With almost 700 pages in the latest book, I'm assuming there's a lot of new information and probably more intimidating math. The first book later sold for several hundred dollars in some cases, so maybe there's an investment opportunity here as well.
This book is probably not for me, but since the math will be easy for you and you're open to different games I say bite the bullet and buy it.
Don't think of it as $250, think of it as 50 red chips. That makes it much easier!
Quote: DeMangoHe is there Bob! And you are posting and posting and posting......
If I had a method that beats the casinos, why would I give one rip about sharing it in a book for what amounts to peanuts when I could be in the casino making 100 times as much?
The information in the book is very valuable for high-level AP's, but will probably not be of much use to the everyday card counter. The analysis is very intelligent, and as advanced as it gets. Well worth the $250 for anyone who knows how to use the information inside it, or anyone who is willing to pay for a high-level academic view of advantage play.
As for the price, as someone else said, it's really on-par with any other top-level technical book. Back in college many of my textbooks cost this much. I think there was also an effort made to keep the bar high for ownership. It's also a very big book, with high-quality print and binding. It must have cost a fortune to print these things. The margin probably isn't near what you think it is.
Yes, but not a pit boss.Quote: EvenBobThe disguises they have now can fool a players own mother.
