reno
reno
Joined: Jan 20, 2010
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March 26th, 2010 at 9:59:03 AM permalink
Quote: nyuhoosier

Here's a question for the dealer and anyone interested in ethics: Should a player correct the dealer when the dealer has paid the player erroneously? During a recent game at the El Cortez, the dealer paid me for a blackjack, forgot to clear the cards, then paid me again for the blackjack when he paid the other bets on the table.



No, I NEVER feel any ethical obligation to speak up when a casino employee inadvertently overpays me. If the casino were an ethical enterprise, they wouldn't cheat naive newbie craps players by offering the Big 6/8 bet in craps. (How unethical is the Big 6/8 in craps? So unethical that New Jersey has outlawed it.) Casinos can't have it both ways: they can't disrespect these naive newbie craps players, and then expect experienced craps players like myself to respect the casino enough to voluntarily return mistaken payments. If the house won't respect their own customers, why should I respect the house?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 26th, 2010 at 10:06:28 AM permalink
Quote: reno

No, I NEVER feel any ethical obligation to speak up when a casino employee inadvertently overpays me. If the casino were an ethical enterprise, they wouldn't cheat naive newbie craps players by offering the Big 6/8 bet in craps. (How unethical is the Big 6/8 in craps? So unethical that New Jersey has outlawed it.) Casinos can't have it both ways: they can't disrespect these naive newbie craps players, and then expect experienced craps players like myself to respect the casino enough to voluntarily return mistaken payments. If the house won't respect their own customers, why should I respect the house?



I think we are getting into a bad thought process here. If someone plays Big 6/8 they are playing a game a casino offers. No one is forced to bet it. Caveat Emptor there.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
reno
reno
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March 26th, 2010 at 10:18:52 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

If someone plays Big 6/8 they are playing a game a casino offers. No one is forced to bet it. Caveat Emptor there.



You wouldn't feel an ethical obligation to help out a new player who's never played craps before? Sympathy for your fellow man? All of us were new players at one time or another. We've all been there.

I admit that the craps table is covered in sucker bets, but the Big 6/8 is especially egregious because the bet is identical to a Place 6/8 bet, except for one tiny difference: the player gets cheated on the Big 6/8.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 26th, 2010 at 10:30:53 AM permalink
OK. Maybe the Big 6/8 falls under the category of "Let the buyer beware."

You want to talk about casino cheating the customer, without offering adequate alternatives? Let's talk about 6:5 BJ.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
reno
reno
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March 26th, 2010 at 10:42:57 AM permalink
Quote: DJTeddyBear

Let's talk about 6:5 BJ.



Using the blackjack survey on this site, I realized that there are only four strip casinos that don't off any 6:5 BJ. Aria, Bellagio, Palazzo, Venetian.

And you know what? I respect them more. And I have less respect for all those other strip casinos who rip off their very own customers.
cclub79
cclub79
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March 26th, 2010 at 12:00:59 PM permalink
Quote: reno

You wouldn't feel an ethical obligation to help out a new player who's never played craps before? Sympathy for your fellow man? All of us were new players at one time or another. We've all been there.

I admit that the craps table is covered in sucker bets, but the Big 6/8 is especially egregious because the bet is identical to a Place 6/8 bet, except for one tiny difference: the player gets cheated on the Big 6/8.



I feel that Big 6/8 falls into the same category as Single and Double Zero Roulette in the same room. It's a tough call. I'd probably tell people not to do B6/8 (but I don't have to in NJ), but I don't think I'd go out of my way to help all of the people playing 00 Roulette. I guess because B6/8 is at the same table, so I'm not "going out of my way", but it's the same type of "cheat". Here's a hypothetical: What if they allowed $5 bets on the B6/8 at the 15 dollar tables? Would that make it less of a cheat? Plus B6/8 do have the "advantage" of allowing you to press in $1 units rather than 6. I guess you could say you are paying 1 dollar per 6 units bet for that opportunity.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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March 26th, 2010 at 12:02:11 PM permalink
Quote: reno

You wouldn't feel an ethical obligation to help out a new player who's never played craps before? Sympathy for your fellow man? All of us were new players at one time or another. We've all been there.

I admit that the craps table is covered in sucker bets, but the Big 6/8 is especially egregious because the bet is identical to a Place 6/8 bet, except for one tiny difference: the player gets cheated on the Big 6/8.



What you are asking is a seperate issue. Sure, I'd offer advice on Big 6/8 as well as 6:5 so-called BJ. But if the casino offers the game and people play it is between them.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Malaru
Malaru
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March 26th, 2010 at 12:40:01 PM permalink
Two questions

1) Do alot of dealers still use the old hand signals for needs- the old cross fingers to request a tap out/break or pointing to head if you need assistance for something; or I think there was something like a dealer tapping his fingers on the table if he thoughts someone might be cheating.



2) Do most roulette tables these days have that second betting cirlce layout .. I think its called announced bets- the like the zero bets and orphans.... or is it rare to find those tables (at least in the US perhaps).
"Although men flatter themselves with their great actions, they are not so often the result of a great design as of chance." - Francois De La Rochefoucauld
konceptum
konceptum
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March 26th, 2010 at 12:55:24 PM permalink
Quote: boymimbo

Different tables have different circumstances. ... For PaiGow, I always correct, right or wrong.



For me, different situations have different results. For example, I frequently encounter dealers paying out wrong on PaiGow, mainly because they set their hand incorrectly. As long as it goes unnoticed by anybody and I get paid, I don't worry about it. I do leave the payment out there for a little bit longer than I normally would, to give the dealer or anybody else to find the mistake.

The main situation that I will look for is the pit boss. I was in a PaiGow hand once where I pushed the dealer, but for some reason the dealer started to pay me. The pit boss was a few feet behind the dealer, watching the table, so I instantly mentioned to the dealer that it was a push. As I was saying that, the pit boss started moving toward the table, and as the dealer pulled back the payment, the pit boss veered off. I then mentioned to the dealer that had the pit boss not been standing right there, I would have taken the payment. The dealer just winked at me.

I asked a dealer one time if they get docked pay or in a lot of trouble for doing a mispayment, and the dealer basically just said that it gets mentioned to them, or they get shown on the tapes, or something like that. For the small amounts I'm playing, I doubt it's a worrisome issue for the casino. I figure, as long as the dealer isn't going to get fired for overpaying or mispaying me a few bucks, then I'm not going to worry about it too much.
DJTeddyBear
DJTeddyBear
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March 26th, 2010 at 1:01:15 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

What you are asking is a seperate issue. Sure, I'd offer advice on Big 6/8 as well as 6:5 so-called BJ. But if the casino offers the game and people play it is between them.

Before we get too far off track, the topic is about dealer mistakes, which migrated towards getting even for 'casino cheats' via the Big 6/8 and 6:5 BJ.

There's another thread regarding offering advice.



Having said that, sigh, here's a reply that is off topic:
Quote: cclub79

Plus B6/8 do have the "advantage" of allowing you to press in $1 units rather than 6.

I've seen people bet wierd amounts on the place 6/8. They simply pay the max at 7:6 and the extra 1:1.

I.E. The person bet $15, and got paid $17 (14:12 + 3:3).
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ 覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧覧 Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁

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