baccarat betting system investment
Quote: ottogtri randomly picked 100 shoes to check it jf it was done correctly and to see if the system will produce money. the 100 shoes i checked was done correctly and i guess i picked the shoes because the system produced more than 150 units. i didnt tell him but i used his system at a casino. the system made me money
Since you already know his system, and have made money using it, why would you even think of paying $50,000 to join his group?
Quote: ottogtrfirst off excuse my english it is not very good so forgive me. i have a good friend that i have known for more than 20 years. the both of us have been gambling together for about the same amount of time. a few months ago he told me that he came up with a betting system for baccarat and if i wanted to invest with his group. i told him that any betting systems work only for a short time but in the long run the system will eventually lose. he told me that he tested the system with 25,000 simulated eight-deck shoes provided by another website similar to this ( i didnt provide the site name because i dont want to be thrown out of this forum). he told me that its simple. ALL BETS ARE FLAT BETS. only need to play 2/3 of the first 80 hands of a shoe. he told me on avg the system will win 1/2 a unit per shoe. he said that may not sound like a lot but 1/2 a unit adds up to be a lot. he compare it to a pro sports bettor with a winning pct in the mid 50s. he told me to just look thru the email with the attach file 25,000 simulated eight-deck shoes that he will send me. so i did received the email later in the week. i didnt have time to go thru all 25,000 shoes so i randomly picked 100 shoes to check it jf it was done correctly and to see if the system will produce money. the 100 shoes i checked was done correctly and i guess i picked the shoes because the system produced more than 150 units. i didnt tell him but i used his system at a casino. the system made me money but it was a pain in the ass for me. it wasnt fun. i felt like i was a robot. i finished 10 shoes in less than 8 hours( thats fast for baccarat). i guess its too simple. well i asked how can i join him and his group of investors. he told me that minum investment is $50,000 and i should double my money in one year time since hes doing on a full time basic. the terms to the contract is that he will get 5% of the profit, theres a 10% early cancellation fee, and miscellaneous items will belong to him (i.e comp,free play/match play, drawings). i know the $50,000 may sound like a lot to many but i risk more than doing what i do daily. from what i see this investment looks very good but i want to get some advice from the people on this forum expressly the wizard himself. thanks
Seems to me, although there are probably details you haven't given, that you're taking all the risk, bankrolling a syndicate for an uncertain return. What happens if he doesn't beat the odds and your money gets lost? Do you get at least your original investment back after a year? Do they rope you in for an initial amount, then either dilute or eliminate your share if they make another assessment on the group and you don't have more money to put in?
As you describe it, I think you're being set up as a pigeon, and I would avoid it at all costs. Also, if you know the system and can play it for a profit, I can't imagine you needing partners. At worst, hire someone to sit there and play who's your own employee if it's so dull you can't stand it.
I could be wrong, and I'm not a pro. But they're depending on you to sell yourself on the idea that fronting the money is a good idea. Classic pigeon drop.
Quote: beachbumbabsSeems to me, although there are probably details you haven't given, that you're taking all the risk, bankrolling a syndicate for an uncertain return. What happens if he doesn't beat the odds and your money gets lost? Do you get at least your original investment back after a year? Do they rope you in for an initial amount, then either dilute or eliminate your share if they make another assessment on the group and you don't have more money to put in?
As you describe it, I think you're being set up as a pigeon, and I would avoid it at all costs. Also, if you know the system and can play it for a profit, I can't imagine you needing partners. At worst, hire someone to sit there and play who's your own employee if it's so dull you can't stand it.
I could be wrong, and I'm not a pro. But they're depending on you to sell yourself on the idea that fronting the money is a good idea. Classic pigeon drop.
Agreed. Best way to make money playing baccarat is to convince people to invest in your system. Don't give your 'friend' anything.
Quote: TankoSince you already know his system, and have made money using it, why would you even think of paying $50,000 to join his group?
yes i can do this myself since i know how the system works but its very hard for me to play baccarat a certain way. if i play how the system is meant to be played its not fun its like working. i have a bad habit of going off the trail if i lose a few hands in a row which do happen with this system. i guess its called going on tilt.
Otherwise, how can we provide meaningful advice to you?
C'mon man, what is this system you are so excited about?
Explain, or leave.
Quote: beachbumbabsWhat happens if he doesn't beat the odds and your money gets lost? Do you get at least your original investment back after a year? Do they rope you in for an initial amount, then either dilute or eliminate your share if they make another assessment on the group and you don't have more money to put in?
As you describe it, I think you're being set up as a pigeon, and I would avoid it at all costs. Also, if you know the system and can play it for a profit, I can't imagine you needing partners. At worst, hire someone to sit there and play who's your own employee if it's so dull you can't stand it.
I could be wrong, and I'm not a pro. But they're depending on you to sell yourself on the idea that fronting the money is a good idea. Classic pigeon drop.
i hope this will not happen if do put money into this investment. if the investment loses 2/3 of the bankroll the investment will stop and the leftover will be divided equally to the investors.
the term is for one year so my share can not be dilute. there will not be more partners and no extra funds will be added until the end of the one year term. but my share of the bankroll can be higher if one of the partners withdraw their share before the one year term and loses 10% of the investment for ending the contract early.
why can i just hire someone? i wont be at the table to see how the money handles. i trust him. hes like family to me. if he F--- me over for 50k then it will be worth it.
but yea thanks for your opinion and ill keep your advice in mind.
Quote: MrVOtto, you really need to explain the details of the system to us.
Otherwise, how can we provide meaningful advice to you?
C'mon man, what is this system you are so excited about?
Explain, or leave.
i will answer this later today.
Quote: ottogtr
i trust him. hes like family to me. if he F--- me over for 50k then it will be worth it.
but yea thanks for your opinion and ill keep your advice in mind.
The truth is that NO system in Baccarat works. No system works in any gambling game works.
What works in games like Baccarat is things like tracking cards for example (when there is a poor shuffle and no wash) and other types of Advantage Play.
But a system that just tells you what to Bet (player/banker/tie) based on the previous hand result or other similar paremeter does NOT work.
The 20.000 siumulated shoes that work for this system are probably rigged OR reverse engineered.
By reverse engineered I mean you take the 20.000 shoes and yout try different systems until own works.
You take a different 20.000 shoes and you do the same excercise and you reverse engineer a different system.
You say that you Trust him Like Family. There are 2 things that might have happened:
A. Even family some times should noty be trusted OR
B. He is been Conned himself as well.
I suggest you do the following. Try the system not on these simulated shoes but on a baccarat software, I think wizzard has one for 100 shoes and see the results.
And even better try the system on a baccarat simulator for a 100 million hands and see the results.
Pay a $1.000 to someone (maybe from this website) to do a bacarrat simulation using the parameters of your system.
It would save you the other $49.000.
Quote: AceTwoThe truth is that NO system in Baccarat works.
A Panda-8 and Dragon-7 counting system for EZ baccarat was developed by a math PhD a couple years ago and it has been verified to work by the Wizard.
If you have a $50k bankroll, can find a heads-up EZ-Baccarat table with a $100 max Dragon-7 bet, are committed to playing for hundreds of hours, and don’t draw any suspicion from casino personnel, then you can win from $50 to $100 per hour, depending on how fast you play.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceNote that neither of these beat the game of baccarat, they only beat a side bet.
It is a classic trick by system sellers to call card counting a system, putting that on the same level as their own worthless betting system. To make the distinction, I call advantage plays like card counting "strategies," not to be confused with a betting "system."
Quote: ottogtryes i can do this myself since i know how the system works but its very hard for me to play baccarat a certain way. if i play how the system is meant to be played its not fun its like working. i have a bad habit of going off the trail if i lose a few hands in a row which do happen with this system. i guess its called going on tilt.
yeah sometimes i got that feeling too. you know baccarat is a complicated game. you have 3 spots on the table that you can place your bet, instead of like blackjack where there is only 1 spot you can place your money. this sometimes make my head spin. lucky they got those little card so i can work out my system. but this is so boring. actually i would rather work in McDonald's where i can meet people.
I got you my friend, No worries at all. Seriously, Teach me the system and Ill play it for YOU(I WILL NEVER EVER PLAY IT ON MY OWN, ILL SIGN A DOCUMENT). I will match the amount of cash you give me and put it in escrow so you know I wont take off with the money. I will secretly film my play so you can be assured I play the system correctly and you don't get cheated. We can work out a cut of only the winning sessions or something we are both happy with. Depending on the sizes of the bets and the time, I may even do it for free.Quote: ottogtryes i can do this myself since i know how the system works but its very hard for me to play baccarat a certain way. if i play how the system is meant to be played its not fun its like working. i have a bad habit of going off the trail if i lose a few hands in a row which do happen with this system. I guess its called going on tilt.
100% guarantee no one will pull some bullshit con or pocket money. You don't have to play it yourself. You can put up less then the 50k they are asking.
You wont get a better deal then that.
if you been around the baccarat tables you might have see players with their score card with marks of bank(red),player(blue), tie. some player they going into more detail and have 3 rows with 25-30 columns on the bottom of the score card. this system will use that way of tracking hands that have been dealt. for example B P P P B B P P B B will be the first 10 hands of the shoe and this is how it will be score on the sheet. the first bank will be score in row 1 column 1. the next hand is a player and it will be score in row 2 column 1. after the ten hands it sheet should look like this...Quote: ottogtri will answer this later today.
B P P B
P B P
P B B
with that said the system plays only row 1 and row 3 for first 25 or so columns(first 80 hands only). what to play for row 1 and row 3 will be kept a secret. all bets are a flat bet. bankroll for the system will be a 1000 units just in case the system runs into a dry spell.
wizard, i know i didnt explain the system fully and how you hate betting system. but with the terms and return of 1/2 a unit per shoe is it a good investion?Quote: WizardIt is a classic trick by system sellers to call card counting a system, putting that on the same level as their own worthless betting system. To make the distinction, I call advantage plays like card counting "strategies," not to be confused with a betting "system."
Quote: ottogtrwizard, i know i didnt explain the system fully and how you hate betting system. but with the terms and return of 1/2 a unit per shoe is it a good investion?
You are missing the point. Let me spell it out for you:
Your friend is wrong. Perhaps is he conning you, or perhaps he is simply mistaken, or perhaps you are making all this up because you like trolling. I don't know which one is true (though I know which one I'd bet on). What I DO know is that your friend's system does not beat baccarat.
I made you a legitimate offer. If this entire thing is real, I cant see any reason for you to not take me up on it.Quote: ottogtrwizard, i know i didnt explain the system fully and how you hate betting system. but with the terms and return of 1/2 a unit per shoe is it a good investion?
my friend might be wrong, he might be conning me, he simply mistaken what i dont know, i have no time to be trolling, and definitely you DO NOT know if the system works or not because i didnt not fully explain the system. what i two questions i should ask are 1. should the system be tested more than 25,000 shoes, a million shoes? 2. forget how the system will be played but with the terms and return of 1/2 a unit per shoe is it a good investment?Quote: AxiomOfChoiceYou are missing the point. Let me spell it out for you:
Your friend is wrong. Perhaps is he conning you, or perhaps he is simply mistaken, or perhaps you are making all this up because you like trolling. I don't know which one is true (though I know which one I'd bet on). What I DO know is that your friend's system does not beat baccarat.
Quote: ottogtrmy friend might be wrong, he might be conning me, he simply mistaken what i dont know, i have no time to be trolling, and definitely you DO NOT know if the system works or not because i didnt not fully explain the system. what i two questions i should ask are 1. should the system be tested more than 25,000 shoes, a million shoes? 2. forget how the system will be played but with the terms and return of 1/2 a unit per shoe is it a good investment?
If you already know the system, why give 50k to invest? Also, IF THIS SYSTEM WORKED why are you telling all of us. Go to casino and become the casino.
Quote: ottogtrmy friend might be wrong, he might be conning me, he simply mistaken what i dont know, i have no time to be trolling, and definitely you DO NOT know if the system works or not because i didnt not fully explain the system. what i two questions i should ask are 1. should the system be tested more than 25,000 shoes, a million shoes? 2. forget how the system will be played but with the terms and return of 1/2 a unit per shoe is it a good investment?
You don't need to fully explain the system for me to know that it doesn't work.
Similarly, you may tell me that you have a method for squaring the circle, and, even if you don't explain the method to me, I know that you are wrong.
Math is great like that. Once it's been proven that no method exists to do what you claim (see apheat.net for such a proof) it's not necessary to go through the details of your system to prove that it doesn't work. You claim that it does something which can be proven impossible, therefore, your claim is false. The details don't matter.
It's to boring for him.Quote: Lemieux66If you already know the system, why give 50k to invest? Also, IF THIS SYSTEM WORKED why are you telling all of us. Go to casino and become the casino.
sorry axelwolf i didnt mean to skip your comment. with your offer you, you are a few that help me answer my question, that this is a good investment. i will keep your advice and a few other comments in mind. thanksQuote: AxelWolfI made you a legitimate offer. If this entire thing is real, I cant see any reason for you to not take me up on it.
Quote: AxelWolfIt's to boring for him.
Yeah I hate winning money too.
I think he admitted/ implied he will go on tilt.Quote: Lemieux66Yeah I hate winning money too.
Quote: AxelWolfI think he admitted/ implied he will go on tilt.
Lol losing those flat min bets when I have a gigantic bankroll tilts me too.
i got you down as a bad investment. thanksQuote: AxiomOfChoiceYou don't need to fully explain the system for me to know that it doesn't work.
Similarly, you may tell me that you have a method for squaring the circle, and, even if you don't explain the method to me, I know that you are wrong.
Math is great like that. Once it's been proven that no method exists to do what you claim (see apheat.net for such a proof) it's not necessary to go through the details of your system to prove that it doesn't work. You claim that it does something which can be proven impossible, therefore, your claim is false. The details don't matter.
so a million shoes is still a bit too small to get a outcome?Quote: VenthusI'd find some way to automate it and run simulations until numbers stabilize. Shouldn't be too hard-- WinPoker can process millions of hands an hour on my system, and it only takes a few million before numbers approach expectation.
The real answer is..... don't wast your time and imaginary 50k. If this worked they would not need your 50k.Quote: ottogtrthe real answer i want to hear is at what amount of shoes do the system have to run thru to get a good expectation and is the terms asking for too much?
I find it truly amazing that someone who got 50K to spare, someone who could accumulate this kind of fortune, would actually believe in this crap
I used to think that however its the richest people who get conned the most.Quote: andysifHe is not trying to sell his system YET, so I will assume he is really into it.
I find it truly amazing that someone who got 50K to spare, someone who could accumulate this kind of fortune, would actually believe in this crap
Cats who can, show the math and can prove it. Cats who can't, pretend or sell systems.Quote: soxfanCats who can, do, and cats who can't, sell systems, hey hey.
Cats who can, hide it. Cats who cant, asked to prove it so they can copyCAT it.Quote: AxelWolfCats who can, show the math and can prove it. Cats who can't, pretend or sell systems.
thank you for a real answer.Quote: AxelWolfThe real answer is..... don't wast your time and imaginary 50k. If this worked they would not need your 50k.
let me tell you how i can spare my imaginary $50k and why they would need someone $50k to partner up with.Quote: AxelWolfThe real answer is..... don't wast your time and imaginary 50k. If this worked they would not need your 50k.
first off by now you should know that i was not born here, im asian. when i came over to america i didnt know a word of english. my cousin that helped me come over to america took me to many vietnamese pho (noodle soup) restaurants when i came over. what i notice was that all the pho tasted pretty much the same but there was a one restaurant that was packed most of the time. the reason why they have so many people is their prices. all items are the cheapest around the area. i took that secret(well i dont think thats a secret) and opened my own vietnamese restaurant in the north side of the city. before anyone ask how i have money to open a restaurant when i just come over to american, not all vietnamese immigrants come over dirt poor. each items in my restaurant barely make a profit but with so items sold i made money. many years later i have 6 restaurants in 3 different cities. so i can spare that imaginary $50k.
next...why would they need someone to partner up with. i believe in an earlier post you made u said math is great. i total agree with you. it take a big amount of money to make a small amount of money(i.e hedge funds and high frequency trading). whats the saying "the rich get richer". if my friend didnt partner up with anyone its not worth the time. if he use only his $50k he can only make $50k a year doing this full time. ill give you the math to this...
$50k divide into 1000 units
thats $50 per flat bet
with a profit of 1/2 units per shoe thats $25
each baccarat shoe(80 hands) takes more than an hour to finish but the system is simple so a shoe can be done in less than an hour if he plays by himself.
he can play 8 shoes a day for 5 days a week for 52 weeks a year
$25 x8 x5 x52 =$52k
$52k might be a lot of money to people in areas where cost of living is low but not where we are locate. if he partner up with some investors like me he can earn extra money with the terms we agree to which will be worth it.
He is fired all ready because he is lazy.Quote: ottogtrlet me tell you how i can spare my imaginary $50k and why they would need someone $50k to partner up with.
first off by now you should know that i was not born here, im asian. when i came over to america i didnt know a word of english. my cousin that helped me come over to america took me to many vietnamese pho (noodle soup) restaurants when i came over. what i notice was that all the pho tasted pretty much the same but there was a one restaurant that was packed most of the time. the reason why they have so many people is their prices. all items are the cheapest around the area. i took that secret(well i dont think thats a secret) and opened my own vietnamese restaurant in the north side of the city. before anyone ask how i have money to open a restaurant when i just come over to american, not all vietnamese immigrants come over dirt poor. each items in my restaurant barely make a profit but with so items sold i made money. many years later i have 6 restaurants in 3 different cities. so i can spare that imaginary $50k.
next...why would they need someone to partner up with. i believe in an earlier post you made u said math is great. i total agree with you. it take a big amount of money to make a small amount of money(i.e hedge funds and high frequency trading). whats the saying "the rich get richer". if my friend didnt partner up with anyone its not worth the time. if he use only his $50k he can only make $50k a year doing this full time. ill give you the math to this...
$50k divide into 1000 units
thats $50 per flat bet
with a profit of 1/2 units per shoe thats $25
each baccarat shoe(80 hands) takes more than an hour to finish but the system is simple so a shoe can be done in less than an hour if he plays by himself.
he can play 8 shoes a day for 5 days a week for 52 weeks a year
$25 x8 x5 x52 =$52k
$52k might be a lot of money to people in areas where cost of living is low but not where we are locate. if he partner up with some investors like me he can earn extra money with the terms we agree to which will be worth it.
Simply play 12 hrs a day 7 days a week for the first 6 months . He should have about 139k, now he can go back to normal hrs for the next 6 months.
WTF your math is horrible Axel, where did you get an extra 30K????
Six years and counting without a taker (started April 2008) https://easy.vegas/gambling/betting-system-challenge
This is kind of a joke because I think he charges 50 an hr. The point is, if he can prove a winning baccarat system, I think much greater things are in store for him
Quote: andysifHe is not trying to sell his system YET, so I will assume he is really into it.
I find it truly amazing that someone who got 50K to spare, someone who could accumulate this kind of fortune, would actually believe in this crap
he is not selling his system but he has no money of his own. He is looking for investors and now he is free rolling you all. It is almost like a pinzi scheme. He gets 4 investors that are not related. If he gets on the right side of variance then he returns money and makes profit without risking his own money. If he is on the wrong side of variance then he will do one of the following. 1. return no money because he went broke, 2. return money to part of the group and show a profit to them in order to get money out of them again and return no money to part of the group and say oops. 3. find new investors and use their money to return to the first group. Once he returns the money he will then say, look it worked how about investing more this time.
If you genuinely think you can make money with this then good luck. You will either get lucky and be on the right side of variance or you will go broke. As long as you invest money that is not meaningful to you then it will be a lesson learned.
I know you wish to keep details secret, if I may;Quote: ottogtr
B P P B
P B P
P B B
with that said the system plays only row 1 and row 3 for first 25 or so columns(first 80 hands only). what to play for row 1 and row 3 will be kept a secret. all bets are a flat bet. bankroll for the system will be a 1000 units just in case the system runs into a dry spell.
You say to play for rows 1 and 3. Are either of rows 1 or 3 a reference, or do you actually bet row 1 and 3.
You obviously bet one of them, curious if you bet both?
Choysoy
Quote: ottogtri trust him. hes like family to me. if he F--- me over for 50k then it will be worth it.
We all need relatives like you. In fact, I think I'd like to show you I can be your friend. But don't try to find me if the money dries up.
PS:
Của thiên, trả địa.
Translation: (That which) Belongs to heaven, returns to earth.
Meaning: "Things that are easily acquired, especially money, are just as easily lost or spent."
Chưa khỏi vòng đã cong đuôi.
Meaning: Don't celebrate untill you are 100 % sure there is a reason to do so.
Mưu sự tại nhân, thành sự tại thiên.
English equivalent: Man proposes, but god disposes.
Meaning: Things seldom turn out as you have planned.
Cháy nhà mới lòi mặt chuột
Translation: Only when the house is on fire do the rats show themselves
Nói trước bước không qua.
English equivalent: Don't count your chickens before they're hatched
more at http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Vietnamese_proverbs
ummmm, I have known some Vietnamese, and have not found them to be especially trusting type people. This would mean you are quite different, or perhaps I have suffered from sampling error
http://www.deceptology.com/2011/02/lemon-drop-kid-by-damon-runyon.html
When someone is asking for money at a racetrack, poker room, or casino, he has told you two things about himself:
1. He is a loser; and,
2. He will not stop.
And if he's asking you, you've just discovered who everyone thinks is the biggest sucker in the room.
So just fork over the 50 Gs and wave goodbye already; what a great way to say happy 80th birthday to Damon Runyon's publication of The Lemon Drop Kid! And on opening day today at Saratoga, no less, after 150 years!
