Telling girlfriend/potential girlfriend you are an AP
Quote: PaigowdanAP is bad faith in the casino house, and justifies back-offs and expulsion from the casino house in all of its wonderful legality, cleanliness of play, and legitimacy.
The shopping center arrest the shoplifters. When does a casino arrest APs for most of the known AP stuff? Maybe the general line is crossed when something is physically touched and altered but legal AP touches nothing.
Quote: rxwineThe shopping center arrest the shoplifters. When does a casino arrest APs for most of the known AP stuff? Maybe the general line is crossed when something is physically touched and altered but legal AP touches nothing.
rxwine - I was trying to find the posting you quoted paigowdan from as I cannot believe he is justifying ejecting someone for using their brains...
paigowdan - how do you justify the casino altering a player's brain chemistry with free alcohol (ok they can choose to not imbibe BUT, isn't not drinking alcohol a sign of an "AP"?) or all the extra oxygen pumped into the air in the casino, or the false slot wins being played over speakers or the carpeting choice adding to the psychedelic effect on people...if a casino can attempt to lower my brain functioning, why can't I use my actual brain function?
Quote: rxwineWhen does a casino arrest APs for most of the known AP stuff?
That falls under the legal category of 'never'.
Quote: FaceBam. There it is.
You married guys are coming at the wrong angle. Yes, marriage is about compromise and understanding and blah-blah-puke. Dude is still unattached. Why start out in a compromising position?
Go for perfection. While you still can.
Yeah. My point is, when a woman is the right one, you don't think of her as "other". Especially when your AP play is the issue at hand, that takes commitment. She should be able to share that commitment. If she is always thinking that she's competing for your time, then she is.
When Mrs Mosca and I met, I found out right away in that she is a freakin' RABID college football fan, and by extension a fan of all sports. We'll watch almost anything, live or televised: women's fast pitch softball is something we both think is just amazing, for example. But I put that out there just as an example, the point is we love to cheer together. If AP casino play is important to you, then find a player. There are a lot of women who enjoy gambling. Find one who enjoys AP. By and large everyone likes winning, and everyone likes money. You can take it from there.
Quote: MoscaYeah. My point is, when a woman is the right one, you don't think of her as "other".
Couldn't agree more. Either she is or she isn't. If you think
she'll eventually 'grow into' something, there are lots of lessons
you have yet to learn.Quote: MoscaWhen Mrs Mosca and I met, .
It's just a shame you still call her Mrs Mosca. But Ahigh
just calls his wife 'woman', so who am I to judge."It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Quote: vendman1The way I explained it to my now wife and then girlfriend was. "This is my hobby, I don't go to expensive concerts or a tremendous amount of sporting events, don't collect anything (except casino chips) ...this is what I like to do with my spare time and spare money". "If I go to Disneyworld there is no chance I'm making a profit. If we go to Vegas or AC...maybe". "I'm pretty good at it, turn a profit more often than not, and go out of my way to play the best games with the best rules" "You are welcome to come with me". I showed her my bookshelf of Blackjack books. etc etc. Explained the math to her to the extent she cared about it. Then she went with me, she liked the restaurants, the beach, the resorts, the nightlife etc. She doesn't gamble at all, but goes on trips with me and we have a great time. She reads a book or goes to the pool or whatever. If you kind find one of those marry her. If not, she's not for you probably.
Oh hell, that's better than having a slot player!
Quote: MoscaI don't want to use her name because of the privacy.)
I was just being facetious, I don't use my wife's name either.
Quote: EvenBobI was just being facetious, I don't use my wife's name either.
Place smile emoticon here!
Quote: rxwineThe shopping center arrest the shoplifters. When does a casino arrest APs for most of the known AP stuff? Maybe the general line is crossed when something is physically touched and altered but legal AP touches nothing.
And;
Quote: rxwine- I was trying to find the posting you quoted paigowdan from as I cannot believe he is justifying ejecting someone for using their brains...
If you're using your brains, you don't get expelled from a casino. Las Vegas rule #1. And it doesn't has to make sense to you.
Card counting and AP play - whether it is legal or not, is justification to expulsion from a casino. And it doesn't matter how you feel about it or agree with it.
Quote:how do you justify the casino altering a player's brain chemistry with free alcohol (ok they can choose to not imbibe BUT, isn't not drinking alcohol a sign of an "AP"?) or all the extra oxygen pumped into the air in the casino, or the false slot wins being played over speakers or the carpeting choice adding to the psychedelic effect on people...if a casino can attempt to lower my brain functioning, why can't I use my actual brain function?
If you're using your brains to AP, which is to get an advantage over the house, or to destroy the "house fee" mechanism - which is the entrance fee, so to speak, then you're no different than someone using his brains to scam a legitimate business out of their door fee, and you are asked to leave.
If you've been on this forum for a while, then you'd know that it is not a "nominal question of legality" - but what the house allows as proper play in order to stay and play. This is because it is also legal for the casino to throw someone out. As in "you're too good for us, you're done for the night," - as well as entering into the surveillance networks' books.
So Remember guys: just because you're not doing time, - and that it is technically legal, doesn't mean you can play. It is also legal for a casino to say "we don't want your business, and as a matter of fact, we don't want you in this place, so YOU guys go. Goodnight."
If the casino doesn't like your play, you go home. And they'll let you know with a friendly visit and a tap on the shoulder. Surveillance calls security, and the pit to stop the game you are on, to expel you.
That's how it works if there is a problem. And because it's all legal, as you point out, you get to wait at a bus stop (or take a limo on your own dime), instead of a holding cell at Clark County Correctional.
Legal? Yes.
Ejected from the premises? Also yes.
And all legal.
Quote: Paigowdan
If you're using your brains to AP, which is to get an advantage over the house, or to destroy the "house fee" mechanism - which is the entrance fee, so to speak, then you're no different than someone using his brains to scam a legitimate business out of their door fee, and you are asked to leave.
.
According to the casino Bible. Which is barely above the
Satanic Bible in many peoples opinion.
Quote: EvenBobAccording to the casino Bible. Which is barely above the
Satanic Bible in many peoples opinion.
Doesn't matter. You leave if "they" think that "you are" being a problem for them.
In the old days, there was either a back room or even a desert plot if they didn't like your play or behavior for too long.
Now you get ejected from the premises with a "sorry, Jack, you are just too good for us."
You wanna play is a casino? Then either play by their rules or go do something else.
The fact of the matter is that you - as a player - don't tell them. They tell you.
Quote: EvenBob(Before editing) I don't even know what you're trying to say, Dan.
That if a casino doesn't want you in their joint, then you are the one who leaves.
When it concerns card counting or AP play:
1. If it is legal, you just get told to leave, and leave you will.
2. If it is illegal, then you may you get a mug shot, some time, and a call to our friend Saul Goodman.
Bob, it's that simple.
Quote: Paigowdan
You wanna play is a casino? Then either play by their rules or go do something else.
Can you tell me again where in the casino the
rules against AP is posted? I've never seen them.
Quote: EvenBobCan you tell me again where in the casino the
rules against AP is posted? I've never seen them.
It's posted in any behavior that gets you expelled.
It's posted on every tap on the shoulder that an AP player earns.
It's posted on 40% of the ringing phones in the pit.
It's posted on a hundred AP sites telling you to use camouflage, false ID's, cover plays, and the like.
It's posted in every surveillance room and shift office - place where they don't let you guys visit.
It's posted in Buzzard's toilet bowl.
and it's posted - etched - into the memories of every AP player who was ever told to go home.
Quote: PaigowdanIt's posted in any behavior that gets you expelled.
It's posted on every tap on the shoulder an AP player earns.
It's posted on 40% of the ringing phones in the pit.
Where is it written down, I don't get hints.
I need to see it in writing, like a stop sign
or a speed limit sign. A cop never tells you
that you broke an unwritten law, does he. Where
in NV is it written an AP can't practice his
trade.
(this is with the classic sales action, not the set price places)
Quote: EvenBobWhere is it written down, I don't get hints.
You don't need hints.
You need to leave when they tell you.
That's not a hint.
your ass out the door.
Quote: EvenBobI need to see it in writing, like a stop sign
or a speed limit sign.
You don't need to see it writing.
You need to leave when they tell you.
A clue for you.
Your butt out the door.
Quote: EvenBobA cop never tells you
that you broke an unwritten law, does he.
A cop doesn't work for you.
He works for the chief.
Your tax money has long since been laundered
through they city's economy.
Your face isn't on a twenty.
You need to leave
when they tell you.
Quote: EvenBob
Where in NV is it written an AP can't practice his
trade.
At the bus stop.
On your way home.
You see the ad, half-price lawyers.
Tell them the mean nasty casino
violated your rights to play AP.
They need to laugh, they take your money.
And you think casinos are rough.
Quote: FaceWho cares? One of your goals should be to figure out where they stand. If they don't like it, they ain't for you.
The quicker you find out, the better. If she don't dig it, kill the relationship and don't look back.
NO COMMENT I MUST BE GETTING SOFTER IN MY OLD AGE
A FAST BALL RIGHT DOWN THE PIPE
AND I STAND THERE WITH THE BAT ON MY SHOULDER
Not a flattering picture.
But, what's even less flattering is the predators they become once they disallow, all the good players... all the players that want to think a little bit. Over serving patron with alcohol, cashing the checks of the working man, so will lose his paycheck before he ever makes it home to support his family. The industry is nothing more that sleaseball hiding in the shadows preying on the weak, poor and elderly.
They are nothing short of a bully, taking advantage of the weak, but crying like a baby when someone stands up to them.
And you sir, continuing to defend this behavior have proven yourself to be no different. You should be ashamed. I am embarrassed for you.
Quote: kewlj
They are nothing short of a bully, taking advantage of the weak, but crying like a baby when someone stands up to them.
Good response, Kewlj. Its their way or the highway. They
can't get laws passed so they make their own secret
laws that aren't written anywhere, and they don't even
tell you you've broken them when they throw you out the door.
They're cowards, just like all bullies.
Quote: kewljDan, you have painted a very accurate picture of the situation. The casino sets the rules to their advantage, but when someone comes along that can beat them, they cry "go home, your not allowed to play anymore", just like a five year old. Basically the 'I win or I am not playing' mentality of any spoiled brat.
Not a flattering picture.
But, what's even less flattering is the predators they become once they disallow, all the good players... all the players that want to think a little bit. Over serving patron with alcohol, cashing the checks of the working man, so will lose his paycheck before he ever makes it home to support his family. The industry is nothing more that sleaseball hiding in the shadows preying on the weak, poor and elderly.
They are nothing short of a bully, taking advantage of the weak, but crying like a baby when someone stands up to them.
And you sir, continuing to defend this behavior have proven yourself to be no different. You should be ashamed. I am embarrassed for you.
Well, kewlj...it can be tough. But it is more on us, and how we spend our time at a casino house.
Casinos are always clean and straight up with any play they see, really; it's the shot-taker, the AP or, anything that can be construed as a scam in their eyes that they will have an issue with. And, giving it to the casino operator on this, and on the number of "financial transactions" that they process in an entertainment environment, the onslaught of shameless scams and shot-taking is just utterly relentless. And - they have both the right to defend themselves, and to enforce standards - on anything that may be non-clean scam play. And they HAVE to operate on this basis - to enforce clean and legit play - just to make gambling possible for us all - especially the decent honest recreational folk that many may wish to feed off of.
I'm fine with the gaming industry, I think it is a great and legitimate industry, one where great citizens can have great recreation when legitimately on the up-and-up having absolutely NO problem. These are the people to be protected, in co-operation with the fine operators who serve them.
It really is when we think we can get slick, or game or scam the system, that we run into problems, really: Card counting then backed off or expelled (and offended by it!); Capping and pinching bets; sliding dice with dice sets with heavy specialized prop bets in action; past-posting....shamelessly arguing payouts to get a favorable call, I have seen it ALL in seven years of dice and card dealing, - and to be honest, I DO side with the casino operator, and not the typcical member at this God-forsaken forum, I really do, and in the same breath, I mean no offense to no one here. It's just how the average Joe is when given a chance to take a shot.
And ignore Bob as a troll, and as a false fire-starter/attempter, really. Sissy Spacek, (a fine actress) don't have shit on EvenBob when it comes to trying to start a fire at a forum, - aside from A.H.
In your mind they're one and the same.
Quote: Paigowdan
It really is when we think we can get slick, or game or scam the system, that we run into problems, really: Card counting then backed off or expelled (and offended by it!); Capping and pinching bets; sliding dice with dice sets with heavy specialized prop bets in action; past-posting....shamelessly arguing payouts to get a favorable call, I have seen it ALL in seven years of dice and card dealing, - and to be honest, I DO side with the casino operator, and not the typcical member at this God-forsaken forum, I really do, and in the same breath, I mean no offense to no one here. It's just how the average Joe is when given a chance to take a shot.
This is what I really object to PGD. Card counting is NOT illegal. Every single judge that has ruled on the issue has ruled the same way. Yet you, nor the industry CANNOT make your case against card counters without lumping them together with criminal activity. Activities that I do not engage in.
I fully support the industry doing everything within it's power to protect themselves against criminal activity. I am even OK, with the current situation between card counters and casino....the whole cat & mouse game. I don't have a problem playing the cat & mouse game, and frankly, I am pretty good at it. :-) My results the last few years are far better than I really imagined when I began supporting myself from LEGAL AP play a decade ago. I couldn't be happier.
Again, what I object to is this industry's crybaby attitude and when they can't make their case legitimately, lumping a legal activity in with illegal activities.
Quote: EvenBobThere you go again, Dan, lumping casino cheats in with AP's.
In your mind they're one and the same.
Fairly close categories: legal casino scammers, lumped in with the outright criminal casinos scammers.
Can you imagine that operators might see them both in the same "less than desirable" category?
It's like comparing a sinus headache to a full-blown migraine; a moderate groin injury to a major groin injury; a moderate blood loss to a traumatic blood loss; a train crash to an airplane crash; food poisoning from shrimp versus food poisoning from veal.
If you want we can make the comparisons more mild: an engine problem on your car versus a transmission problem on your car.
all are pure problems and headaches - just more operational "bullshit to deal with" for the casino operator: dirty play is dirty play, and as defined and perceived by the operator.
headaches and losses and problems from casino players and scammers are simply that: legal or illegal, or rainy-day Tuesday.
You can't justify a little thorn by comparing it to a huge thorn, as none are wanted, though many will justify their thorniness by their little-ness.
Quote: kewljThis is what I really object to PGD. Card counting is NOT illegal. Every single judge that has ruled on the issue has ruled the same way. Yet you, nor the industry CANNOT make your case against card counters without lumping them together with criminal activity. Activitiesnt that I do not engage in.
Legality of casino play is not the issue. Acceptability of casino play by the casino house is the issue. The casino may do - just as the player may do - refuse to enter into any bet that is not to both parties satisfaction and perceived good faith. As in, "here's a security guard, and there's the door."
Quote: kewljI fully support the industry doing everything within it's power to protect themselves against criminal activity.
Well, then you're going to have to accept the casino doing everything within its power to reject any gambling scenarios that are also outside of its business interests, even if legal, and hungrily desired by you and other gamblers. This is because American businesses - such as casino operators - will shut the door on things that are outside of their BUSINESS interests, even if legal. And that includes customer pilferage in the business' opinion.
Quote: kewljI am even OK, with the current situation between card counters and casino....the whole cat & mouse game. I don't have a problem playing it. :-) And frankly, I am pretty good at it. My results the last few years are far better than I really imagined when I began supporting myself from LEGAL AP play decade ago. I couldn't be happier.
These days may be so sadly numbered. Evil People like me working in the gaming industry are closing the door on game designs and pit procedures that don't fully take into account 100% game protection while maintaining a reasonably fair house edge for both sides. Sneaking into the movie house through an unsecured back entrance will be shut down over time fairly soon, as another useless aspect of the business operations' cat-and-mouse game. If AP's leave gaming houses, then casino profits will just go up, casino problems and altercations down (due to the increased efficiency of cleaner play and operations), and bowling alleys and Netflix will get a surge of new business, to boot! A pure win-win situation for American Businesses.
Quote: kewljAgain, what I object to is this industry's crybaby attitude and when they can't make their case legitimately, lumping a legal activity in with illegal activities.
It isn't about "legal or illegal," it is about "customer pilferage is not in our business interests, legal or illegal."
And we ain't crying. We're just updating game protection on the new game releases, which very few normal casino patrons will notice anyway, outside of the 1%-ers on this here board who are crying.
Trust me, we are not crying about this leaky door being closed, we're relieved.
Quote: PaigowdanSneaking into the movie house through an unsecured back entrance will be shut down over time fairly soon.
Again, you just can't make your case, without changing it into an illegal activity, which it isn't.
As for days being numbered, omg, we've heard that for fifty years (Well not me personally). But it is possible that you, new wave of game protection enthusiasts may realize your dream. Unforethnately, for all involved, what you folks don't seem to realize it that your efforts, if successful, will not only put an end to AP play, but will doom the very industry you seek to protect. The possibility of beating the house is the lifeblood of this industry. The whole idea of AP play being possible is the best advertising this industry could ever have.
Asking for advice on relationships here is probably a bad discussion.Quote: 1arrowheaddrI'm in my late 20's, have a full-time job, recently finished professional school and I am a semi-pro AP. I play the tables for 5 or so hours a week and make an average of about $1,000 a month. AP for me is a profitable hobby. I've started dating again recently and I was looking for general advice on how to tell a girlfriend/potential girlfriend. How long do I wait to tell? Will most women think I'm degen and want to have nothing to do with. me? Any advice is appreciated.
when to tell her?
YOU SHOULD HAVE LEAD WITH THAT PROUDLY..... All the girls I have dated never had a problem with it whatsoever. And even found it interesting, most of them played with or for me. If you tell her with your head down and sham in your voice then she will probably think it's a bad thing. Tell her with confidence and explain why and how you have an advantage. If she asks why, you didn't already tell her, explain your so good at what you do u wanted to make sure she was an important part of your life before you could educate her on how you win.
Quote: kewljAgain, you just can't make your case, without changing it into an illegal activity, which it isn't.
No.
Again, I'm not saying here that all AP or card counting is illegal. I'm saying it's really immaterial.
Legality is not the issue, as the real issue is business loss prevention and game protection, - which casinos legally have a right to address, and are in the process of addressing it, to stop it.
What I am saying is that AP is systematically being shut down, (very much like fixing leaky financial faucets) via everything from player back-offs, (which are old school but are now better and more quickly spotted), to new changes in table games design and updates, to enforce casino game protection.
AP players are getting burnt out more quickly, games are getting tougher to nefariously beat, and the whole garden industry and grey market is getting smaller and more difficult to survive in. It really isn't like it was twenty years ago, the halcyon days of not so long ago. I consider it progress, and some consider it a loss. It may get so bad that trade schools for middle-aged men may see an uptick: Medical receptionist, Limo driver, what have you. Change isn't always good for some, but it is happening.
Because this is a relationship thread, perhaps the few AP players who are showering enough to get some, may hear from their better halves, "Honey, things are really changing, maybe you shouldn't be a Key-punch Operator any more..."
They're reaping what they've sown.
Seems fair.
When you shout in the ear of a sleeping giant, don't whine if he wakes up and swats you with his club.
Let's see if I can summarize:
PGD is saying casinos have the right to refuse service to anyone, so they drop kick card counters out when they spot them
AP Crowd is saying it is pathetic that casinos won't take their action when they take all the action they can from ploppies no questions asked.
So what is the point.......that is the way it is.......everything is legal here......card counters can legally count to their hearts content........casinos can legally throw them out at anytime......and the sky is blue and the grass is green......can we move on now?
Quote: 1arrowheaddrI'm in my late 20's, have a full-time job, recently finished professional school and I am a semi-pro AP. I play the tables for 5 or so hours a week and make an average of about $1,000 a month. AP for me is a profitable hobby. I've started dating again recently and I was looking for general advice on how to tell a girlfriend/potential girlfriend. How long do I wait to tell? Will most women think I'm degen and want to have nothing to do with me? Any advice is appreciated.
Tell her you're a semi-professional or professional gambler, and prove you're not a degenerate by pulling out and showing her $5,000, or so, in bank fresh hundreds. If she doesn't believe you at that point, screw her. Tell her as soon as practical, second, maybe third date. It could be the first date, if occupation comes up as a topic that early...and it usually does.
Quote: ParadigmThe back and forth between the "AP Crowd" and "PGD" is almost as bad as the back and forth between the Forum and "Gr8player".......there is nothing really more to add.
Let's see if I can summarize:
PGD is saying casinos have the right to refuse service to anyone, so they drop kick card counters out when they spot them
AP Crowd is saying it is pathetic that casinos won't take their action when they take all the action they can from ploppies no questions asked.
So what is the point.......that is the way it is.......everything is legal here......card counters can legally count to their hearts content........casinos can legally throw them out at anytime......and the sky is blue and the grass is green......can we move on now?
Let me say that something here has been missed, including by the esteemed Paradigm - and that something else is going on, AND it was stressed.
It is NOT about which camp you're in, or how you feel about your God-given right to AP, and all the sniping about that.
It is that the Gaming industry - as slow as it seems to move - is at a turning point, and is changing, right down to the pit level.
In less than two weeks G2E occurs, and we'll see a lot of interesting stuff, incorporating some interesting - and all the more discreet and transparent technology.
Automated Baccarat shoes are coming out, namely the Hawk shoe from DEQ (a company that Paradigm tracks very closely), where this beast not only speeds up play and reduces error, but provides for tremendous game protection under the speed increase and error reduction. It can know the Dragon-8 and Panda-8 counts at any instant in an ongoing fashion, and in real time; imagine this beast on a BJ shoe game. So as long as shuffle points or other physical game play actions aren't changed from it, "real-time diagnostic knowledge" can be disseminated and flag counters, as simply a "knowledge or alert update -" This is something that human surveillance crews do on a routine basis but with greater error and misses. Mind you, nothing about the physical game play has been changed as a result, just the "operational knowledge level" is increased tremendously.
What I have been saying is that the writing is on the wall for AP play, and that the "cat and mouse game" will turn into the "Robo-Cop and mouse" game over time. It doesn't matter that I think it is a vapid career or pastime endeavor, it is that the casino operators, (as businesses that we all respect and esteem [cough!] and rely on for our action) will be making steady and continuous advances in such "loss prevention" areas and shut the door. Certainly some time is left, but if I were an AP, I'd get to G2E and take a hard look at the new game and products there.
Quote: IbeatyouracesSounds like a newer version of "MindPlay" which I believe was deemed illegal.
I'm familiar with MP21. It bombed because it was so obtrusive and buggy. This new thing (the hawk shoe) is very smooth to deal and to play. It's at Palace Station and at the Bike.
I'm sure that the big distributors thoroughly check all legal ramifications, and that we should avoid playing lawyer when we don't know the R & D and legal items on these products.
Quote: Paigowdan
Automated Baccarat shoes are coming out, namely the Hawk shoe from DEQ (a company that Paradigm tracks very closely), where this beast not only speeds up play and reduces error, but provides for tremendous game protection under the speed increase and error reduction. It can know the Dragon-8 and Panda-8 counts at any instant in an ongoing fashion, and in real time; imagine this beast on a BJ shoe game.
Can it make pancakes?
If that is the case, then why could the device not keep a true count for BJ and such bets and instruct the dealer to shuffle when the TC reaches a certain point?
My answer is that it probably could, but the casino would lose time-money by having it shuffle when the True Count reached a certain point and would lose hands played. Furthermore, it would also dissuade attempted Advantage Play, and I should imagine that a player who thinks he knows how to count and make the Index plays, but doesn't, is worth more to the casino than your average casual player who more or less sticks to BS.
Teliot addressed these and other issues on APHeat talking about all the time and money lost with many of these contra-AP maneuvers such as the early shuffle. I tend to agree with him, as long as people are out there failing at attempted AP, then real AP will still exist because you don't want to lose the revenues derived from those wannabe advantage players.
If they lose, they come back until busted because they believe they are AP's and chalk it up to Variance. If they win, they come back until busted because they think they won pursuant to their advantage. Either way, they bust!
Quote: Ibeatyouraces
Preferential shuffling is a form of cheating. Again, this is exactly what MindPlay did and they were removed.
That's strange. You guys know that I am pro-AP, but I don't understand why if card counters decide to bet high when the deck is to their benefit that the casinos cannot simply prevent the deck from ever being to their benefit. Like I said, the casino (in my opinion) is only hurting itself by employing these measures.
The way I would look at it is, pursuant to whatever the House Rules are, the most, "Fair," game of Blackjack would be with perfect distribution, (i.e. a shoe with no cards dealt out of it) so it would seem fair if the casino never allowed a true count better than +3 or worse than -3...at least to me. You would think the casino would garner a positive reputation with some players on the latter:
Player: "Hey, why are you shuffling up already?"
Dealer: "The count was too bad, casino had too much of an advantage, have to make it fair."
