Wizardmobile poll
Poll
 | 20 votes (47.61%) | ||
| | 8 votes (19.04%) | ||
| | 10 votes (23.8%) | ||
| | 4 votes (9.52%) |
42 members have voted
My girlfriend just spent something like $23K on a brand new Toyota Rav4, but her parents paid for it (long story, but they're very generous). If it was her money, I would have flipped my "lid" about it.
Anyway, sorry to derail the thread.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffI don't understand the part about giving your wife 20k. If you are married isn't everything you own hers too? Like a joint property thing?
Thank you Nick. I thought the same thing, like HUH? My
wife and I not only co-mingle bodily fluids on occasion,
we co-mingle incomes 100% of the time..
Quote: MoscaI get to drive them all. Camrys are horrible cars. Well built, yes. But awful. The new Kias and Hyundais are far better designs, not just in appearance but also in handling, NVH, tightness... Everything. I would buy either a Sonata or an Optima over a Camry, and know that I got the better car.
Thank you. Go and drive the damn things is all
I can say. The Koreans are constantly improving
their product, its their obsession. And we benefit..
I enjoy fancy cars, but I don't have the budget (or the mindset) to spend money I can spend elsewhere (like on the felt).
I'll go to car shows and marvel at supercars as they fly past me down the highway. As long as it delivers me from point a to point b, that's all I want out of my daily driver.
>>I can only assume you are not married. What's her's is her's, and what's his is her's too !
The trouble is that once having chosen to live by these rules, divorce and Community Property can rear their ugly heads and then the parties are likely to find out that these are not jokes.
Of particular interest to gamblers might be the recent events involving the Illinois Lottery. One man of Indian heritage who won a major prize was served Cyanide Curry when laws, customs, and culture conflict with greed.
Quote: NicksGamingStuffI don't understand the part about giving your wife 20k. If you are married isn't everything you own hers too? Like a joint property thing?
Our arrangement is that both parties have to agree on "big purchases." It has never been defined what makes something "big." What I'm suggesting is we earmark 20K for her own account that is for here eyes only and is hers to spend as she pleases and on things entirely for herself.
Quote: winmonkeyspit3How about a compromise by way of buying a gently used Mercedes? My parents know the owner of a car dealership and always check in with him for a car that is used by dealers or as a company car. They routinely get 1 year old cars with under 5,000 miles on them for 20-25% off of retail.
Unfortunately, I don't know this same guy. Your parents are probably getting the "friendly price." I've looked at some gently used cars and the savings compared to new was not much.
I havent posted much. But i do read the site every day.
I am a property manager in Florida for a businessman who does some work in Vegas.
He bought a new car for his wife this Christmas so i am charged with selling the old car, a 2008 Mercedes ML 550 light gold with only 8200 miles!!
He is asking 42,000 but i can give him any offer. The car is in perfect condition.
Let me know if you are interested.
Quote: WizardUnfortunately, I don't know this same guy. Your parents are probably getting the "friendly price." I've looked at some gently used cars and the savings compared to new was not much.
Another option: luxury car lease returns. You get a 3-year-old car with one former owner who probably took care of it well so they didn't have to pay any lease penalties. You need to be patient for this approach but it can pay off with big savings. My father-in-law got a Lexus LS430 for a fraction of new.
But if you're in the 40-50k range, how about this:
Quote: TropicalElectriI am a property manager in Florida ...
Thanks, PM on the way.
Audi has a long history of annoying reliability problems. Ditto with Mercedes and they just seem boring and behind the times.
If your wife is driving-oriented she may prefer the BMW. I thought I would but when I drove the Infiniti I was impressed with the power and sharp handling. The BMW is available with a manual transmission which I do miss, but my wife likes the auto.
Quote: rdw4potusYeah, I think there's two things going on here. The Hyundais are much better than they were. I'd probably take a Sonata over a Camry at the Hertz counter now. But to say that a Sonata is on par with the cars on this list is just nuts. It's not close.
It's a little confusing why everyone keeps comparing the cars on wizard's list to the Sonata. I agree, while the Sonata is a much better car than anything comparable from Japan, the US or Germany, it is not in exactly the same class as those on the list. That's why I entered the discussion, because we recently went through the test drive exercise, and surprisingly/pleasantly discovered that Hyundai does indeed make world class automobiles that are more sophisticated in almost every way than their much more expensive status symbol counterparts. It must be that no one here even knows what an Equus is, or even the high performance Genesis R-Spec? And believe me, neither are anything close to slushboxes.
I am a man, but I'm sorry, it makes zero sense to be shifting any car bigger than a Fiat POP. Manuals are meaningless in driveable cars anymore, as automatics are faster, in the higher end cars you can't feel a thing when they shift, and most cars have 6-8 gears today.
Thanks I understand leasing better now, but leasing a car just doesn't feel right. I wouldn't think that it's mine, and pride of ownership would be a distant feeling. I'd never wash it!
Quote: iluvdisco33yundai does indeed make world class automobiles that are more sophisticated in almost every way than their much more expensive status symbol counterparts. It must be that no one here even knows what an Equus is, or even the high performance Genesis R-Spec?
The Equus starts at $60k. The cars on the list in the first post of this thread are all less expensive than that. So I don't quite understand your "much more expensive...counterparts" line above.
Quote: rdw4potusThe Equus starts at $60k. The cars on the list in the first post of this thread are all less expensive than that. So I don't quite understand your "much more expensive...counterparts" line above.
We got our Equus Ultimate for $63k out the door so you're right, it's more than $50k. But I was comparing the car to the much more expensive BMW 750Li we test drove. It stickered for nearly $110,000 and was not nearly as nice an all around luxury performance car as the Equus. The point is that there are a number of cars Hyundai makes that are between the Sonata and the Equus, we test drove them all, and going by my stats that show the Equus to be a superior vehicle to its "counterpart", the 750, then the other Hyundais are probably better than their German (or even Japanese) counterparts. At a BIG savings.
Quote: iluvdisco33We got our Equus Ultimate for $63k out the door so you're right, it's more than $50k. But I was comparing the car to the much more expensive BMW 750Li we test drove. It stickered for nearly $110,000 and was not nearly as nice an all around luxury performance car as the Equus. The point is that there are a number of cars Hyundai makes that are between the Sonata and the Equus, we test drove them all, and going by my stats that show the Equus to be a superior vehicle to its "counterpart", the 750, then the other Hyundais are probably better than their German (or even Japanese) counterparts. At a BIG savings.
U.S. News rates the Equus 10th in its class. It really likes the car for the price, but its competitors perform better.
http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/Hyundai_Equus/
of them, including a VW bus I bought in Calif in 1976
for $150, drove for 3 years and never did a thing to it,
then sold it to a homeless guy for $150, who drove it
and lived in it for another 3 years.
I bought a 1981 Rabbit in 1981 for $300 at a yard sale
cause it had 110K on it and the old woman thought it
was done. She didn't know Rabbits went 300K to 400K
miles. I drove it for 3 years and sold it for $500.
And while Equus is pretty nice while new, how nice will it be in 6 years? Nobody knows yet. We know what a Lexus will be like in 6 years (same as in 1 year but with worn seats), what a Nissan will be like (probably a small fix or two), but a Hyundai - better hope it's not going to fare like older ones.
I'm just not sure that these cars are cheap for nothing.
Now don't get me wrong. If I needed a car of that type for myself, I could be considering these. But I'm definitely not confident enough about them to take the responsibility of recommending one to someone else.
Oh, and Equus competes with Volkswagen Phaeton, that's what you have to pit it against. And maybe also Chrysler 300C. It's simply a different niche.
Quote: iluvdisco33It's a little confusing why everyone keeps comparing the cars on wizard's list to the Sonata.
Because EvenBob made some ridiculous statements about the Sonata being just as good as any car on that list. He also said that it drove like a sports car.
I am not denying that if you only have $21k to spend (that's the MSRP of the base model) the Sonata seems like a decent choice. But it's clearly not a sports car, nor does it drive like one (this is from someone who drives a sports car every day)
Quote: P90Equus also has no fuel economy, and it's criticized for poor steering and poor brakes. NOT what you get with G37, these are driver's cars as much as older BMW, and more so than recent BMW. With fuel economy almost toe to toe with a Camry.
And while Equus is pretty nice while new, how nice will it be in 6 years? Nobody knows yet. We know what a Lexus will be like in 6 years (same as in 1 year but with worn seats), what a Nissan will be like (probably a small fix or two), but a Hyundai - better hope it's not going to fare like older ones.
I'm just not sure that these cars are cheap for nothing.
Now don't get me wrong. If I needed a car of that type for myself, I could be considering these. But I'm definitely not confident enough about them to take the responsibility of recommending one to someone else.
Oh, and Equus competes with Volkswagen Phaeton, that's what you have to pit it against. And maybe also Chrysler 300C. It's simply a different niche.
Well, the Hyundais don't come with the best warranty in the business because they're cheaply made.
Fuel economy isn't important to me and probably isn't to someone looking to spend $50k on a new car. If the brakes and steering on the Equus are "poor", then I'm John Wayne reincarnated.
I'm confident enough about ANY Hyundai to recommend any of them to someone else. You need to test drive the entire line like we did, even the Elantra (but not the Alante). I don't know what a Phaeton is, but even a Chrysler 300 SRT8 is in the minors when comparing it to an Equus.
Quote: iluvdisco33... (but not the Alante).
I bought an Allante (Cadiilac) in the early 1990's and it was a piece of junk. For a 90's car I liked the look, but they tried way too much new technology in it that was not refined yet.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceBut it's clearly not a sports car, nor does it drive like one (this is from someone who drives a sports car every day)
Jeez. The Sonata feels like a sports car
to me, prove it doesn't. Driving is very subjective, one
persons opinion only applies him, not to the human race.
I also can't tell the difference between a burgundy box
wine and a bottle that costs $35. I bet you can't either.
Quote: iluvdisco33Fuel economy isn't important to me and probably isn't to someone looking to spend $50k on a new car.
If that was the case, Hummers would be associated with kewl and awesome, not with balding guys in dated-before-they-bought them clothes and 1G cell phones.
Quote: iluvdisco33I'm confident enough about ANY Hyundai
Oh. I didn't know we had an automotive engineer or an experienced repair technician in this thread.
Quote: iluvdisco33If the brakes and steering on the Equus are "poor", then I'm John Wayne reincarnated.
John Wayne was neither an automotive engineer nor a car repairman, so I have to express doubt about the veracity of this statement.
Sad. Seems like Equus' brakes and steering still fail and we don't even have John Wayne on this board to show for it.
Quote: EvenBobJeez. The Sonata feels like a sports car
to me
I assume that this is because you have no idea what a sports car feels like. Which sports cars have you driven? I asked you this before and you didn't answer.
Quote:I also can't tell the difference between a burgundy box
wine and a bottle that costs $35. I bet you can't either.
I don't drink wine. But you have to understand that just because you can't tell the difference between two things doesn't mean that there is no difference. A blind person might not be able to tell the difference between a blue shirt and a red shirt but that doesn't mean that there is no difference. Similarly, just because you have no idea how a sports car drives or handles doesn't mean that the Sonata drives like a sports car.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSimilarly, just because you have no idea how a sports car drives or handles doesn't mean that the Sonata drives like a sports car.
Feels like a sports car to me. Prove it doesn't. You
can't cause you're not me. My idea of a sports car
is mine, yours is yours. You let others make up
your mind for you, I don't.
Quote: EvenBobFeels like a sports car to me. Prove it doesn't. You
can't cause you're not me. My idea of a sports car
is mine, yours is yours. You let others make up
your mind for you, I don't.
It doesn't matter what your idea of a sports car is. It only matters what a sports car actually is. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions, not their own facts. Just because you have no clue what a sports car feels like, how one accelerates, or brakes, or handles, and you incorrectly imagine that it might feel like a Sonata, does not mean that a Sonata drives like a sports car. It just means that you don't know what you are talking about. Somebody who has never driven a car might imagine that a bicycle handles just like a car, but they wouldn't be any more correct that you are now.
Again, I'm not letting anyone else make up my mind for me. I drive a sports car every single day. I drive it near or at (or, unfortunately, occasionally slightly past) its limits when at the track. I drive it closer to its limits on the street than most people do (nowhere near the limits, but I still push it a bit). I know what I am talking about here. You clearly don't.
Quote: AxiomOfChoicedoes not mean that a Sonata drives like a sports car.
It does to me. You don't get it. Your opinion
is yours and mine is mine. You can find others
that agree with you, but so could I. Years
ago my mothers 2nd husband custom ordered
a 1970 Ford LTD with a leather interior and
fender skirts. He told everybody it was a 'luxury
car', in the same league as a Lincoln. Its wasn't,
but to him it was and he would argue about it
for hours. Luxury is in the eyes of the beholder.
Imagine this car with fender skirts.
Quote: EvenBobYou don't get it. Your opinion
is yours and mine is mine.
Years ago my mothers 2nd husband custom ordered a 1970 Ford LTD with a leather interior and fender skirts. He told everybody it was a 'luxury car', in the same league as a Lincoln. Its wasn't, but to him it was and he would argue about it for hours. Luxury is in the eyes of the beholder.
Bob adds another branch to the family tree... the "mother's second husband" who in Bob's own words doesn't know what a luxury car is, even though he would argue about it for hours.
So, Bob, following the family tradition calls a Hyundai a sports car, is told it isn't a sports car and then argues about it for hours with the defense of "Your opinion is yours and mine is mine". In other words, Bob drives crap cars all his life and then thinks the ride and handling of a Hyundai is comparable to that of a sports car which means therefore that it must be a sports car.
Nice family you got there Bob. What's it like being wrong all the time?
Quote: TheNightflyeven though he would argue about it for hours.
He didn't argue with me, I thought he could
call it whatever he wanted.
Quote: TheNightflyWhat's it like being wrong all the time?
Why do you have such a hard-on for me? Get a hobby
or something, you give me the creeps.
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I always tell prospective car buyer friends to get a used Sonata. I almost convinced my friend to get one. But he ended up getting a Chrysler 300 as a rental, and bought a new one of those.
Quote: EvenBobIt does to me. You don't get it. Your opinion
is yours and mine is mine
But this is not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact.
You can say that 2+2=6, but that doesn't make it true. It just means that you can't add. Similarly, you can say that a Sonata drives like a sports car, but it doesn't make it true. It just means that you don't know how a sports car drives.
In short, you can make all the incorrect statements you want, but that doesn't make those statements true. It just means that you don't know what you are talking about.
All we have learned from this discussion is that you don't have a clue how a sports car actually drives. You should try to drive one at some point; you might learn something.
-Hyundai Genesis
-Lexus
-Ford product like Lincoln
After having family that own a commercial leasing company, I would not buy a GM or Nissan product like Infiniti. Mercedes and BMW are overpriced for what you get, and God help you on repairs.
Your gently used experience is about right. Buying a car 1-2 years old doesn't really help much because a lot of people have piled into that market, driving prices up. And you start to lose your warranty fast. However, you can pick up cars coming off 3 year leases for considerable discounts. Buy the extended warranty (factory only). You should call leasing companies in your area to ask if they are selling any of their stock.
Also, tax will kill you. Trade-ins don't always get the best deal, but they cancel the tax on their value. In Nevada sales tax is not charged on the trade in value. That is an automatic 7-8% boost in trade-in value, and makes fighting for every penny of trade value worth doing in comparison to other ways you can negotiate with the dealer.
Quote: EvenBobFeels like a sports car to me. Prove it doesn't. You
can't cause you're not me.
I have to agree here. P90 and I got into a similar arguement about "race cars" last year. He contended a race car was purpose built car focused 100% on performance. As a country boy who grew up at the local short track, I argued that a beater of an 80s era Monte Carlo could also be a race car (cuz they are ;))
Technically, a sports car is one built to be quick and handle well. Good suspension, good power to weight. While a Sonata might not be this, it or any other car could still feel like this. A sport car is a car driven for sport, or that features "sporting driving". This includes anything from the Ariel Atom to a '69 GTO to a Honda Civic to a turd of a Camaro. I bet, somewhere in the gamut of sports cars, there's a few that the Sonata can best.
If you insist a Sonata is a sports car, you're simply wrong. But feels like? Sure.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceBut this is not a matter of opinion. It's a matter of fact.
.
To me it drives LIKE a sports car. Why are you so
insecure? Why do you even care?
Quote: Face
If you insist a Sonata is a sports car, you're simply wrong. But feels like? Sure.
Thats all I'm sayin...
Quote: FaceI have to agree here. P90 and I got into a similar arguement about "race cars" last year. He contended a race car was purpose built car focused 100% on performance. As a country boy who grew up at the local short track, I argued that a beater of an 80s era Monte Carlo could also be a race car (cuz they are ;))
I would generally define a race car to be purpose-built and probably not street-legal in most places. That does not mean that a top-end street car can't beat a race car though. It also doesn't mean that you can't race one (you can race anything) Sometimes the distinction can be pretty slim. I'd consider an Atom a street car (just barely -- it's certainly "on the line"). Something like a McLaren F1 or Bugatti Veyron is clearly a street car, although they are high-performance and can destroy many purpose-built race cars.
Quote:Technically, a sports car is one built to be quick and handle well. Good suspension, good power to weight. While a Sonata might not be this,
It's not.
Quote:it or any other car could still feel like this.
It could, but the Sonata doesn't. Someone who says that it does has probably just never driven a sports car. They probably mean that it drives like they expect a sports car to drive, and their expectations are wrong.
Quote:A sport car is a car driven for sport, or that features "sporting driving". This includes anything from the Ariel Atom to a '69 GTO to a Honda Civic to a turd of a Camaro. I bet, somewhere in the gamut of sports cars, there's a few that the Sonata can best.
Beat? Sure. Cars have certainly come a long way in a fairly short period of time. It's not hard to beat a 70-year-old sports car. But, "drive like?". No. It certainly doesn't drive like a sports car. It's a low-end mid-sized sedan. It most closely resembles a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry. Boring cars for boring people with boring kids. Pretty much the opposite of a sports car.
Quote: EvenBobTo me it drives LIKE a sports car. Why are you so
insecure? Why do you even care?
Which sports car do you think it drives like?
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhich sports car do you think it drives like?
It probably does outperform his Yugo.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceWhich sports car do you think it drives like?
Its a comparative thing. Its drives like a sports
car compared to what I usually drive. It feels
and handles like a sports car compared to my
10 year old American station wagon. Thats my
opinion. That yours is different is irrelevant.
(its obviously very important to your self esteem
that you drive a REAL sports car. You can't stand
that somebody might get the same feeling from
something less than a REAL sports car.)
Quote: FaceI have to agree here. P90 and I got into a similar arguement about "race cars" last year. He contended a race car was purpose built car focused 100% on performance. As a country boy who grew up at the local short track, I argued that a beater of an 80s era Monte Carlo could also be a race car
Then I think we had a purely semantic misunderstanding.
In a race where you have to race factory Citroen 2CV, this particular 2CV will be a race car.
But that doesn't make 2CV as a model into race cars.
The terms of race car as a particular vehicle and race car as a design are little more than just homonyms.
So, GT3 RS = sports/race car (in between), while Turbo = sports car, even though the latter is faster.
Any time I'm not talking about a specific race, I mean race car as a design, not an individual vehicle permitted to race.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceSomething like a McLaren F1 or Bugatti Veyron is clearly a street car, although they are high-performance and can destroy many purpose-built race cars.
There's a wide gap between even the best supercars and pure-blood racecars. The latter being high-end rally cars, for instance. On a long runway a supercar may well be faster, but everywhere else... rarely a contest.
Even power to weight isn't the whole story, it's also how the power comes. In a rally car, you have all the power, all the time, all to the ground. Steering is no contest, grip in corners no contest. It's scary as hell to even try driving one, and a normal person without months of specific racing training (anything road cars and any track days don't count) stands no chance at driving one fast.
But in good trained hands, even a "middle of the road" race car, put on a formula or rally track and set to race for an hour or three, won't leave any supercar a chance. Especially with a long race; anything as heavy as most modern supercars quickly damages its tires, after which their electronics lose all semblance of utility, while a lightweight race car will keep lapping. Plus the durability and heat dissipation factors kick in, most supercars aren't built to run on the edge for an hour+, though there are exceptions (F1, 911, some Ferraris), race cars are.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt's not.
Completely agree.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceIt could, but the Sonata doesn't. Someone who says that it does has probably just never driven a sports car. They probably mean that it drives like they expect a sports car to drive, and their expectations are wrong.
This is where I disagree. Undoubtably, it's nothing like a nimble Miata, a high powered Corvette ZR1, or a face twisting Atom. But it wasn't hard to locate the stats for a 2011 Sonata and find it is less than a second slower 0-60, less than a second slower 0-100, less than a second slower in the 1/4 mile, and less than a mph slower in the 1/4 mile than a certain model of sports car. The car in question? A 305hp, 2013 Ford Mustang, arguably the most famous sports car in the world.
Sports car? Nope. Boring ol' turd? I think so. But we're talking feel. Feel is subjective, and can't be proven false.
...and a few others....WTH....
You know,
Back when I was dealing at Fiesta, and when I got married (second time), I had:
- a 1987 Acura Integra with 120,00 miles, and a stick, and;
- a 1992 Mercedes 190e with 170,000 miles.
She asked, "Do you have a car with less than 100,000 miles, or newer than 15 years old?"
I said "not yet...."
I asked her, "Do you know how to drive?" (I knew she didn't, but wanted to hear....)
"Not Yet."
Then we got a new car...a two-door Accent, - (1.6 liters of pure no power), and scrapped the ancient Acura. Econobox.
She got the new car. She learned how to drive in America with it. She took driving lessons, and we also installed a lot of Buddhas and Rosaries into the car, also.
And then we needed a NEW new car.
2011 Ford Focus. She got that, and I got the little Accent. I car pooled with it, driving around 800 lbs of crap dealers in it....then saw the car of a fellow game inventor, and it was a Porsche SUV crossover thingy.....never knew such a thing existed, but should have figured as much. I thought that was excess.
Then...we had to get a NEW, New, - new car.
2013 Ford Fusion. "Mine, all mine," I said, "- you got the Focus, honey, - and don't give me that hurt look....."
A friend sent me a link to MacKenzie's WRONG COLOR CAR video. For me, it was like watching Scared Straight for yuppies, etc....Macenzie came up with a follow-up semi-explanation, MacKenzie 'wrong color' II.
I vowed to never own a car higher in value than the Median American Salary....the MacKenzie Line.....my take. I don't mean to offend as much I mean to warn....
Quote: EvenBobIts a comparative thing. Its drives like a sports
car compared to what I usually drive. It feels
and handles like a sports car compared to my
10 year old American station wagon. Thats my
opinion. That yours is different is irrelevant.
Your grasp of the English language does not seem to be great. That's not at all what "drives like a sports car" mean. Drives like a sports car does not mean that it drives better than a 10 year old POS. It means that it actually drives like a sports car. In other words, there is some sports car that it is similar to.
Quote:(its obviously very important to your self esteem
that you drive a REAL sports car.
Not at all. I just really like driving.
Quote:You can't stand
that somebody might get the same feeling from
something less than a REAL sports car.)
I am fairly sure that you don't get that feeling. Again, all I'm convinced of is that you have no idea how a real sports car drives or handles. Basically, when you say that a Sonata drives like a sports car, it tells me that you either don't know how a Sonata drives or you don't know how a sports car drives, since the two are extremely dissimilar. It's sort of like, if someone told me that chocolate tasted just like vanilla, I could only assume that they had never tasted one of them (either that, or they had no taste buds)
Quote: Face... it wasn't hard to locate the stats for a 2011 Sonata and find it is less than a second slower 0-60, less than a second slower 0-100, less than a second slower in the 1/4 mile, and less than a mph slower in the 1/4 mile than a certain model of sports car. The car in question? A 305hp, 2013 Ford Mustang, arguably the most famous sports car in the world.
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceDrives like a sports car does not mean that it drives better than a 10 year old POS. It means that it actually drives like a sports car. In other words, there is some sports car that it is similar to.
Now that that's settled, where were we? =)
Quote: FaceBut it wasn't hard to locate the stats for a 2011 Sonata and find it is less than a second slower 0-60, less than a second slower 0-100, less than a second slower in the 1/4 mile, and less than a mph slower in the 1/4 mile than a certain model of sports car. The car in question? A 305hp, 2013 Ford Mustang, arguably the most famous sports car in the world.
I don't see it. Sonata is 7.7 and Mustang V6, most basic model, is 5.3 seconds. That's 2.4 seconds, or, more importantly, 45%. Other specs are similarly quite far apart. It might not be a slouch, but it can't touch even the most basic Mustang.
Also, Mustang is a pony car, or a muscle car; not a sports car. If you were to call it iconic, you'd also have to remember that for American muscle cars only V8 counts, any V6 version is basically a shell.
Quote: P90I don't see it. Sonata is 7.7 and Mustang V6, most basic model, is 5.3 seconds. That's 2.4 seconds, or, more importantly, 45%. Other specs are similarly quite far apart. It might not be a slouch, but it can't touch even the most basic Mustang.
Looks like my page brought up the 2.0T model. 2 litre turbo, 270hp. Oops. Still...
Quote: P90Also, Mustang is a pony car, or a muscle car; not a sports car. If you were to call it iconic, you'd also have to remember that for American muscle cars only V8 counts, any V6 version is basically a shell.
Here we go again, P90 being all specific and shit =) I'll respectfully concede as this thread's far enough off the rails.
Quote: FaceLooks like my page brought up the 2.0T model. 2 litre turbo, 270hp.
Yeah, just a little different :)
Still, I would be curious to see how the turbo drives (I haven't driven it). It definitely has some raw power but... turbo + slushbox? Really? That had better be one hell of a good automatic transmission. I drive a turbo, and I know very well what happens when you let your revs drop as you come out of a turn (floor it... and no power. very disappointing)
(7.7 sec 0-60... drives like a sports car... lol)
Quote: AxiomOfChoiceThat's not at all what "drives like a sports car" means.
Sure it does. It means 'drives like a sports car to me'.
Why would I like it to 'drive like a sports car
to you.' I'm not you, thats impossible. For some
reason, you just can't seem to grasp that your
experience isn't everybody else's experience. Feelings
and tastes are subjective, not written in stone. I bet
pizza and expensive wine tastes different to me than
it does you. Uh Oh....
