WongBo
WongBo
Joined: Feb 3, 2012
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March 5th, 2012 at 1:31:58 PM permalink
It is despicable to say that the use of condoms in Zimbabwe increased the rate of STD infection.
If you knew anything about it, you would know that many men do not use condoms at all,
And of those who do, a large number use the pill in the context of their marriage but may not use condoms during extramarital relations.
Most single men do not use condoms at all.
The Catholic Church has played a roll in the spread of Hiv by its refusal to acknowledge that barrier contraception slows HIV infection rates.

http://www.guttmacher.org/pubs/journals/2619600.html
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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March 5th, 2012 at 1:33:43 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Once more a few of those romps in the hay are more intense and powerful because you have abstained and anticipated the moment.



Sex isn't 'intense and powerful' because you abstained for a few
days, we aren't animals. Abstaining for 3 months, yeah, but a
few days or a week is nothing. How often do you think married
people have sex. Studies show that 65% of married couples don't
have any, so does that make them better Christians?

Where do you get that men want contraception more than women?
This is just not true. Women don't want to get pregnant, thats whats
behind contraception. "look at it as a beautiful and intimate act done
with a person that we are committed to"... Did you get that off of a
Hallmark card, Padre? Sugary platitudes aren't what sex is about,
except in romance novels written in the 50's by women authors.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Face
Administrator
Face
Joined: Dec 27, 2010
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March 5th, 2012 at 1:41:44 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

What we should be doing instead of teaching people about condoms is teaching them about the beauty, power, and sacredness of sex. We also need to educate people on how to use their reason and their will power to be in control of their passions and not let their passions control them.



This is what kills me about, for lack of a better term, "extremists". Why can't we change instead of into in addition to?

If you think condoms and pills are all you need and throw your piece into anything that moves, that hurts the body and soul. If you keep sex under such strict rules and regs you can't enjoy it, it hurts the heart and mind.

In the words of the little girl in the taco shell commercials, "Why not have both?"
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Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
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March 5th, 2012 at 1:41:47 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

We have all been sold the myth of "safe sex". Put on a condom or use the pill and your sexual exploits are invincible. In Zimbabwae I have unfortunately seen the consequences of this first hand. Some missionaries told me entire generations were simply lost to AIDS and some of the places I visited had infection rates as high as 90%. Why? Because someone said don't control your desires instead use this condom and do whatever you want.



Please. let's keep it real.

1) The pill won't protect anyone from STDs, or the common cold for that matter.
2) The AIDS problem in Africa comes from men not wanting to use condoms, not becasue they use them. This is well documented. In the West, the rate fo new infectiosn ash fallen for at-risk populations where condoms are used.
3) If your spouse has AIDS and he has sex with you without a condom, even if keep to all the holy rules you want and intend it for procreation, etc etc, chances are sky-high you'll catch AIDS.
4) I know lots of Catholics. The only ones from small families, or who have small families, either have fertility problems or rightly ignore the Church and go on the pill, get IUDs, or use condoms.

Quote:

Contraception gives people a false sense of security not only towards avoiding pregnancy but also towards not contracting disease.



That depends. Contraceptives are neither 100% effective nor foolproof. Of course pregnancy can result (and the pill, I reiterate, is as much protection against infections as a clover leaf is against rain). But that's true regardless of what method you choose. Be it a sensible, rational one, or whatever the Church peddles these days.


Quote:

I am reminded of a point in the Gospels where Jesus' difficult teaching on the Eucharist was being rejecting (read John chap. 6).



That's where Jesus propposed canibalism and drinking blood as holy acts? Oh, the dirty, disgusting jokes that come to mind coupling (no pun intended) that with sex!
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
EvenBob
EvenBob
Joined: Jul 18, 2010
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March 5th, 2012 at 1:58:30 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

What we should be doing instead of teaching people about condoms is teaching them about the beauty, power, and sacredness of sex.



I love talk like that. There are lots of words to describe
sex, beautiful and sacred don't exactly come to mind.
Especially married sex. Now, sex with Jennifer Lopez,
that might be a different story. But probably not.

A wise person once said, somewhere is the worlds
most beautiful woman. And the man who is tired
of having sex with her.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
Mosca
Mosca
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March 5th, 2012 at 2:03:18 PM permalink
Quote: WongBo

It is despicable to say that the use of condoms in Zimbabwe increased the rate of STD infection.
If you knew anything about it, you would know that many men do not use condoms at all,
And of those who do, a large number use the pill in the context of their marriage but may not use condoms during extramarital relations.
Most single men do not use condoms at all.
The Catholic Church has played a roll in the spread of Hiv by its refusal to acknowledge that barrier contraception slows HIV infection rates.

Guttmacher



Thank you, WongBo. You beat me to it.

Freeing women from unplanned pregnancy frees them economically and socially. It gives them equality. It gives them the right to determine their future. Although the transformation isn't complete, someday it will be. And that day cannot come soon enough.

And FrG, frankly you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to sex, love, marriage, and human sexual relationships. You are reading from a script. Until you've been there the words don't have meaning. Sometimes it's transcendent, and sometimes it's filthy. And I'll be damned if I can tell the two apart.
NO KILL I
boymimbo
boymimbo
Joined: Nov 12, 2009
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March 5th, 2012 at 2:10:49 PM permalink
Here's a link to a 2003 Vatican story from the Guardian UK Link

The story's headline: Vatican - condoms don't stop AIDS.

Quote: theGuardian


The Catholic Church is telling people in countries stricken by Aids not to use condoms because they have tiny holes in them through which HIV can pass - potentially exposing thousands of people to risk.

The church is making the claims across four continents despite a widespread scientific consensus that condoms are impermeable to HIV.

...
The WHO has condemned the Vatican's views, saying: "These incorrect statements about condoms and HIV are dangerous when we are facing a global pandemic which has already killed more than 20 million people, and currently affects at least 42 million."

The organisation says "consistent and correct" condom use reduces the risk of HIV infection by 90%. There may be breakage or slippage of condoms - but not, the WHO says, holes through which the virus can pass .

Scientific research by a group including the US National Institutes of Health and the WHO found "intact condoms... are essentially impermeable to particles the size of STD pathogens including the smallest sexually transmitted virus... condoms provide a highly effective barrier to transmission of particles of similar size to those of the smallest STD viruses".

The Vatican's Cardinal Trujillo said: "They are wrong about that... this is an easily recognisable fact."



Your claim that condoms in Zimbabwe increases the incidence of AIDS is ignorant. FRGamble, in my opinion you and your church are absolutely ignorant on this issue.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
boymimbo
boymimbo
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March 5th, 2012 at 2:19:25 PM permalink
My second statement is more insulting. How can any practicing catholic priest know anything about sex or even passionate love? You know what 11 days of 28 of holding out does in a marriage? Resentment! It's not necessary.

I don't need 8 children in my house. I don't need to worry about what day of the month is a good day for sex. Take a pill, get sterilized, use a condom, so what!

Condoms and birth control reduce overpopulation, which is absolutely necessary in resource-poor Africa. Condoms reduce the incidence of AIDS, not increase it.

A lifetime of restraint by priests has led to a rate of sexual abuse on boys of AT least 4% and probably much, much higher than that.

Today's Catholic Church needs a different direction. It needs some progressive leaders who can say, "you know what... we believe that contraception leads to more sex, which we think is wrong, but we think that to resolve the issues of disease and overpopulation in the world, we can allow it".

Even Pope Benedict in November 2010 opened the door a bit when he advocated condom use for male prostitutes to reduce disease.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
EvenBob
EvenBob
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March 5th, 2012 at 2:33:57 PM permalink
Quote: Mosca

Freeing women from unplanned pregnancy frees them economically and socially. It gives them equality. It gives them the right to determine their future. .



Thats the sentiment I've been searching for. Its not
hard to connect the dots. A Church run by all men for
1500 years has an agenda concerning women. It used
to be keeping them barefoot and pregnant at home,
breeding a lot of future contributors to the Churches
coffers. Its agenda now is to keep them married and
at home, taking their temps and having accidental
babies (oops), anything to keep them from competing
with men in the marketplace. And especially to keep
them out of the Church hierarchy.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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March 5th, 2012 at 2:45:19 PM permalink
This is right from the FDA's website:

Quote: FDA.gov

Will a condom guarantee I won't get a sexually transmitted disease?

No. There's no absolute guarantee even when you use a condom. But most experts believe that the risk of getting HIV/AIDS and other sexually transmitted diseases can be greatly reduced if a condom is used properly.

In other words, sex with condoms isn't totally "safe sex," but it is "less risky" sex.



Again it is crystal clear that if you pass out condoms without being honest with people and educating them on the risk of multiple partners and promiscuity it leads to a higher incidence of STDs and pregnancies. Condoms are not 100% effective. Again I have seen it first hand, husbands leaving the villages with bags full of free condoms for the prostitutes they would meet in the city where they had to work. Do you think they wanted to catch AIDS? The African men knew the risks and wouldn't think of having unprotected sex, the problem was they thought (and were told) that nothing could happen if they used a condom. They brought the disease back to their villages and had unprotected sex with their wives spreading the disease. I really don't know what is so hard about understanding this?!? Don't be so ignorant yourselves.

Maybe I should try to put it in gambling terms, sex with multiple partners even with condoms is a negative expectation game - you will lose eventually. Why don't we encourage people to be advantage players by waiting to be with one person and being committed to that one and only person for their lives? I know you are going to say that is unreasonable and hard, but I thought card counting was the same way. A little discipline and sacrifice can change the odds in your favor and enjoy the game like never before.

Stop the madness about claiming that contraception is the only way for women to claim sexual equality with men. What I hear you saying is that you want women to look at sex the same way you do. Women have the upper hand when it comes to sex because of their natural gift of fertility. Men used to respect that and honor that - now we put on barriers to protect us or demand women to take a pill to destroy a healthy and natural part of a woman. Why? So we can have more sex. When you say give woman equality what you really men is knock women down to our level by robbing them of fertility and enabling all of us all to have lots of "safe sex". What a joke, what a lie, and what dire consequences that causes in society. Wake up people!

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