There Is No God
Quote: FaceIndignant banned for language.
I'm on phone, can't update list. Pity.
I see where he said tough s**t. Was that the offense?
Parting the Red Sea, burning but not consumed bush, healings of Christ, feeding of multitudes by Christ, Raising of Lazarus from the dead, resurrection of Christ, inclement weather at the invasion of Normandy, election of Obama to name a fewQuote: rxwineSeriously, what is the record of supernatural explanations against scientific ones? Which ones have held up, in medicine, or the natural world, cosmology?
It's a near constant historical beatdown of supernatural explanations replaced by scientific ones.
p
Quote: 1BBI see where he said tough s**t. Was that the offense?
S#$% in my yard, and I'll likely take pictures and have a poor opinion of you. Throw it at guests, you gotta go.
There are thousands of different "Gods" around the globe, through history. You can't make blanket statements that you believe or know in/of "God".
Quote: ArtemisThe Almighty helps those who help themselves. High-Techs (God's gift to His creatures) can increase your luck. If I were you, I would "smart-phone" the churches to make sure that they are still in business before I drop by.
The Almighty surely wants you and me to gamble smartly with +EVs. When we win, He wins too. We'll make a bigger donation to His church due to the adrenaline rush as a big winner :-)
I google mapped it and both were open supposedly. Maybe I missed the service.
BTW does God still take human sacrifices? I need to jumpstart my royal cycles since I am running bad :(
Quote: djatcI google mapped it and both were open supposedly. Maybe I missed the service.
BTW does God still take human sacrifices? I need to jumpstart my royal cycles since I am running bad :(
lol don't see why he wouldn't, but remember depending on what god you are sacrificing to he may require burnt offerings in which case your going to need a pretty big grill or a fire pit.
Quote: ArtemisThe Almighty helps those who help themselves. High-Techs (God's gift to His creatures) can increase your luck. If I were you, I would "smart-phone" the churches to make sure that they are still in business before I drop by.
The Almighty surely wants you and me to gamble smartly with +EVs. When we win, He wins too. We'll make a bigger donation to His church due to the adrenaline rush as a big winner :-)
Quote: djatcI google mapped it and both were open supposedly. Maybe I missed the service.
BTW does God still take human sacrifices? I need to jumpstart my royal cycles since I am running bad :(
No, God doesn't like the burnt human fleshes anymore ever since Abraham almost immolates Isaac.
Hey go to the online chapel and pray really hard; perhaps during your meditation, you may find an answer in how to re-jump-start your cycles profitably. Of course, you have to do your hard work first before the Almighty helps you to get over the hump :-)
I just tune in and enjoy the spiritual angelic music by the organist.
Here is the 24/7 online live webcam of the chapel @ St Maximilian Colbe Shrine near North Chicago, IL:
http://www.marytown.com/content/our-lady-blessed-sacrament-chapel
Edit:
More photos of the Chapel:
Quote: rudeboyoiIt always struck me as odd that people thought the world is flat. The night sky looks dome shaped and appears to rotate. Like I can understand people thinking that the earth didn't rotate and thinking that the earth was the center and everything rotated around the earth but not that the earth is flat.
You're blinded by the empirical history. If you think about it, up/down is the most useless direction ever. Most of life occurs on the surface of the earth. So, why round off the earth, eg?
But, logically, nothing is redundant or useless about a well- designed or defined universe. Not of up/down in particular. Hence, up/down became the third dimension, which can't lay flat, as a regular surface. The "useless" became a paradox of the ahead/back wrapped left/right into opposing up/downs.
Perhaps, the atheists still want to hold onto a "flat" universe without a creator - for the similar argument - of needless complication; as much as the religious to a "round" one. More likely, both will have to compromise. Paradox has already been used up.
Add on: Similar argument, but with the roles reversed.
Quote: mickeycrimmIf its good enough for my ancestors its good enough for me.
Most of your ancestors had...
- no telephones, not even land lines;
no televisions;
no automobiles;
no computers;
no microwave ovens;
no sewer systems, no water systems, no electrical grid;
et cetera.
The entire (missing) package ought to be good enough for you.
Quote: rxwineAs the product of the brain, yes, probably at some point.
Well, that leaves only music, football players, and philosophical thought (of which religion is a proper part).
What if the "product of the brain" is a program which ultimately leads to a bunch of problems without solutions? As Einstein, nearing the end of his life, wrote to Moffat in a letter summing up his prolific struggle? Perhaps, the idea is to understand physics rather than, as Hawking more or less put it, "... end it by the end of the (last) century."
Einstein's written words remind me of another quote, "It's better to live as your own man than a fool in someone else's dream." - What a great quote, as in go and write your own stuff for your own time.
Quote: KerkebetEinstein's written words remind me of another quote, "It's better to live as your own man than a fool in someone else's dream." - What a great quote, as in go and write your own stuff for your own time.
Sure that was Einstein? I think it was from a bad 70s sci-fi show.
Quote: djatcmy afterlife with the 72 virgins....
They're all the exact same virgins. For each devout muslim getting them, they are the same set of virgins, exactly. They remain virgins in heaven, for the same reason they remained virgins on earth. No one would touch them. The 72 (disgusting) virgins, will eternally remain virgins. No need to replenish "the pool," because none of them are ever defiled out of "the pool."
I heard another very pithy word of advice: "Don't die a virgin. There are terrorists up there waiting for you."
Quote: indignant99They're all the exact same virgins.
If that's the reward in heaven, bad sex with
women who don't know what they're doing,
why bother. What a crappy prize for giving
your life to a cornball religion.
Quote: mrcleanSure that was Einstein? I think it was from a bad 70s sci-fi show.
Yes, and no.
Had to dig this bit out of an online newspaper, which formats like EvenBob. Ugh.
'At lunch that day in Ontario, Moffat said that he had one more letter from Einstein to show me. He rummaged through a folder, pulled out a copy, and pointed to the date: May 25, 1953. Then he read the words that have guided him for more than half a century: “Every individual . . . has to retain his way of thinking if he does not want to get lost in the maze of possibilities. However, nobody is sure of having taken the right road, me the least.” ' http://www.timfolger.net/Einstein_Fishing.pdf
My modernized version is from the English series Space: 1999. Two seasons, with a remarkable transformation between when the Star Trek guy took over. Interesting footage about this included.
Quote: EvenBobcrappy prize for giving your life to a cornball religion.
"A" cornball religion? "A" cornball religion? All of 'em are cornball.
Quote: indignant99"A" cornball religion? "A" cornball religion? All of 'em are cornball.
English isn't your first language, is it?
Quote: onenickelmiraclePlease close this thread because if you look back, I've solved the problem.
There was a problem?
Quote: FaceS#$% in my yard, and I'll likely take pictures and have a poor opinion of you. Throw it at guests, you gotta go.
There is something phenomenal about that statement.
Did Face actually make it?
Or am I being conned, once again?
Quote: TwoFeathersATLThere is something phenomenal about that statement.
Did Face actually make it?
Or am I being conned, once again?
No, I made it. Question?
Quote: FaceNo, I made it. Question?
None, no Siree.
Quote: MrVJust as there is no positive expectation in craps, so is there no God in this world.
We're it, baby.
Works for me.
Because this can neither be proven nor disproven, and relies solely on faith, your opinion in the matter is irrelevant and speculative.
Works for me.
Wait, the craps, or the god?Quote: JoelDezeBecause this can neither be proven nor disproven...
...The craps is proven for standard games/no promotions ;-).
He's talking about DI and photographic memory..... both are bunk.Quote: RomesWait, the craps, or the god?
...The craps is proven for standard games/no promotions ;-).
Both are disproven, you just won't accept the truth. Faith is just a word that was made up get people to believe in total BS, especially when you're trying to convince people to give the church money. One must have faith to believe in things that are impossible and not real.Quote: JoelDezeBecause this can neither be proven nor disproven, and relies solely on faith, your opinion in the matter is irrelevant and speculative.
Works for me.
Did you forget to log into your Evenbob account?Quote: AxelWolfBoth are disproven, you just won't accept the truth. Faith is just a word that was made up get people to believe in total BS, especially when you're trying to convince people to give the church money. One must have faith to believe in things that are impossible and not real.
Maybe a religious person might say the infinite clones in clone universes have different souls, but.... this just proves the theory, the more you learn, the more you learn what you don't know.
Heaven could be simply not existing in a physical universe or at all. Eternity could just be torture. Knowing you exist could be all the hell anyone needs because existing is inescapable.
Quote: onenickelmiracleIf there are millions of universes, millions being created and exact copies of each and all of us, are we all living lives over or are exact copies living exact copy lives? Maybe even trillions of years later, our own atoms are reconstructed exactly in this universe, are they us. It's funny how simple the God question may seem, but this just blows your mind if a person is truly honest.
Maybe a religious person might say the infinite clones in clone universes have different souls, but.... this just proves the theory, the more you learn, the more you learn what you don't know.
Heaven could be simply not existing in a physical universe or at all. Eternity could just be torture. Knowing you exist could be all the hell anyone needs because existing is inescapable.
From one perspective, it could be said there are currently 8 billion universes coexisting, intersecting here on earth. God knows there are many people who seem to see it that way, as if they are the only reality in their universe, and the rest of us are fiction, without any existence beyond whatever use we are to that person.
That's where everyone starts, as an infant. Then the question becomes, how mature do they get? I would suggest we are more psychopathic now than we have been in generations, if not since paleolithic times.
I think that might be one of the hidden morals of the Toy Story films. The toys only become themselves when there is no human around. When Andy is there, the toys become completely passive to his imagination, and are shelved or ignored when they're not part of his play. But they have lives, distinct personalities, and make different choices for themselves than he makes for them when he's the animator.
And then the child grows up and puts away childish things. Or doesn't grow up emotionally, but physically moves into adulthood with a completely egocentric worldview.
Just mulling the analogy...
Quote: progrockerThe stance that God's existence is faith based alone, and therefore neither provable nor refutable, is sort of the easy way out of the argument and is surely not the stance of all theists. For instance, the Catechism of the Catholic Church decrees that God's existence is demonstrable and can be derived from man's reason alone. Not all of the Protestant sects have rejected that line of thinking. The resulting arguments presented from theologians like Saint Thomas Aquinas are pretty interesting, but still have not convinced me. I think the problem of Evil (stylized here as the production of 'Glee', but should refer to non-human caused suffering such as natural disasters) is still the biggest hang up for me, and hasn't been satisfactorily addressed by theists (although Aquinas did try).
I'm a long time atheist, but I don't get why so many are hung up on the problem of evil. To me, it's the worst argument for atheism, at least as usually expressed.
Adam and Eve ate from the tree of knowledge. I interpret this as out preference for a world of freedom in which all things are possible, as opposed to a world in which we are sheltered and everything is controlled. Like a teenager who would rather go out and take risks, experience highs and lows, than have parents control their lives.
More simply, this life can either be a sheltered life with no freedom, or it can be a life where we are free to do as we like and whatever happens happens. It is the latter.
If after you die, you wake up in other plane of existence, obtain a higher level of consciousness, and live forever, you will probably view the suffering of this life as much less important, maybe a learning experience.
The real problem of evil to me, is the evil people have God commit in their religions. Mostly, there are 1,000 religious sects and if you pick/are born into the wrong one, got tortures you for all eternity. (Don't think it has to be interpreted this way, but it's very common.)
I don't think so. Imagine that, a Las Vegas magician won the genetic lottery. Holy crap! And, we can now genetically engineer our own evolution. Sure we can. People continue to wreck the planet. Especially the scientifically advanced ones. It's more like nobody gets away with anything. Unless you are a god, of course. Or, Heaven forbid, the God. But go ask a magician about it.Quote:I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day. PENN JILLETTE
Quote: 1MatterToMotionI don't think so. Imagine that, a Las Vegas magician won the genetic lottery. Holy crap! And, we can now genetically engineer our own evolution. Sure we can. People continue to wreck the planet. Especially the scientifically advanced ones. It's more like nobody gets away with anything. Unless you are a god, of course. Or, Heaven forbid, the God. But go ask a magician about it.Quote:I won the huge genetic lottery and I get joy every day. PENN JILLETTE
Not sure how anyone on either side of the religious debate doesn’t think Penn has a good life as most of us define it. And he worked hard to get it and deserves it*
*but his politics suck.....sorry had to say it.
Salvation =
We are saved through God’s Grace and through our Faith in the Gospel (Resurrection).
Without free will we would be robots.
Blessings to all.
Quote: RigondeauxMostly, there are 1,000 religious sects and if you pick/are born into the wrong one, got tortures you for all eternity. (Don't think it has to be interpreted this way, but it's very common.)
of my best work is here. I'm learning
from reading my own posts, lol.
Certainly nobody I'd worship.
Quote: MrVWhat kind of god would crucify his own son?.
You don't get it. God impregnated his own
mother to give birth to himself, so he could
crucify himself. How else would you interpret
father son and holy spirit being one and
the same, as they claim.
That's one messed up family tree for Ancestry
dot Com to unravel..
Mine, too.Quote: EvenBobI forgot all about this thread. Some
of my best work is here. I'm learning
from reading my own posts, lol.
I hate to have to break it to you guys, but science, itself, whether finite or infinite, confronts exactly the same dilemmas and paradoxes as do religion, and the other "branches" of philosophy. Russell's set-theory paradox, eg. "Russell’s paradox is the most famous of the logical or set-theoretical paradoxes. Also known as the Russell-Zermelo paradox, the paradox arises within naïve set theory by considering the set of all sets that are not members of themselves. Such a set appears to be a member of itself if and only if it is not a member of itself. Hence the paradox." Which addresses such things as the apparent impossibility of listing all the rules of mathematics.Quote: EvenBobYou don't get it. God impregnated his own
mother to give birth to himself, so he could
crucify himself. How else would you interpret
father son and holy spirit being one and
the same, as they claim.
That's one messed up family tree for Ancestry
dot Com to unravel..
Quote: 1MatterToMotionI hate to have to break it to you guys, but science, itself, whether finite or infinite, confronts exactly the same dilemmas and paradoxes as do religion, and the other "branches" of philosophy.
But if we know that some supposed paradoxes were later resolved, can we presume that all paradoxes are possibly wrong or faulty in some unknown way and that no real paradox actually exists?
I prefer that myself.
Quote: rxwineBut if we know that some supposed paradoxes
Paradoxes, who cares. If you can't eat it,
sell it, or use it to dig ditches, what useful
good is it.
I guess that the same could be said of time, itself. And paradoxes that smelled good to you, just a couple of posts ago, in a hasty attempt to dispel the notion or existence of God.Quote: EvenBobParadoxes, who cares. If you can't eat it,
sell it, or use it to dig ditches, what useful
good is it.
Quote: rxwineBut if we know that some supposed paradoxes were later resolved, can we presume that all paradoxes are possibly wrong or faulty in some unknown way and that no real paradox actually exists?
I prefer that myself.
I think that the "stronger" play is not to try to solve everything. To identify but intentionally leave most things unsolved. A theory of everything should not change questions to answers in the process. Some seek a relativistic nature of solution, and others a quantum local nature of consciousness, etc. In the former case, where everything is balanced in agreement, harmoniously, and all ideas get along. But, to truly have this, the final theory must still contain the elements and generalities that contradict itself while still rise to the same level of theorizing or importance. It may come down to a lot of trial-and-error "fiddling" as much as a cunningly designed method of thought. Getting the numbers to fit in a "seed" formula to generate the rest. Doing it without knowing what we are doing.
Did man create religion? This gets back to our finding things out by discovery, or invention. And how thinking about things in one area of study or work inevitably ties into or equates with those of another. If you really think about something to useful conclusions, in some way, then you can bet your last dollar that another will be thinking about the same things in another way. It just shows that religion isn't that far off any track, but only with things put a different way. The greater question here is, where does discovery equal invention.Quote: aceofspadesMan created "God"
