Are people who join atheist groups
Quote: NareedFans of chocolate ice cream do not presume to restrict the rights of other people. Religious people do.
no religious person has the power to restrict your rights...Only government can do that....
Quote: vert1276no religious person has the power to restrict your rights...Only government can do that....
If you want an intelligent discussion, then please don't be so obtuse.
Quote: vert1276Cult members? It just seems very weird to me...whats the point? I can see why "believers" would form groups...but why would none believers form groups?...It would be like if people who don't like chocolate ice cream formed a group to discuss their opinions that chocolate ice cream was not a good flavor...and were trying to convince others not to eat chocolate ice cream....and trying to get ads on public land for chocolate ice cream taken down....To form a group like that seems kind of "cultish" IMO.....Of course if fans of chocolate ice cream formed a group...that seems totally normal to me.....
Cult Members? Hardly. Atheists form social groups just like any segment of society that has a particular interest. Knitting clubs, military strategy clubs, bluegrass music clubs ect. Atheists are simply normal people that simply don't believe in god. They like to socialize together just like any other group that has a particular interest. I belonged to an atheist group once long ago in Baltimore, We generally invited guest speakers to lecture on a variety of subjects and then a question and answer period and had a social period afterward. We are not anti god, we simply don't believe in god. Take this forum, we are all here because we have an interest in Vegas, yet the variety of subjects discussed is very broad, just like my old atheist social group.
Quote: vert1276no religious person has the power to restrict your rights...Only government can do that....
I see. That's why gambling, gay marriage, abortion, prostitution, euthanasia has never been an issue in politics - because the government is immune to religious believes. Right.
Quote: vert1276Cult members? It just seems very weird to me...whats the point? I can see why "believers" would form groups...but why would none believers form groups?
Perhaps because atheism is in itself a belief system. I have said before, I had a college professor was a professed communist and atheist and had a board seat on his church which he went to every week.
Quote: AZDuffmanPerhaps because atheism is in itself a belief system. I have said before, I had a college professor was a professed communist and atheist and had a board seat on his church which he went to every week.
Duffman, do you remember new agey stuff that came along like "Pyramid Power"? Some people said if you built a pyramid and sit under it you get some power funneled into your head or something.
Anyway, while there never came a need to become an "unpyramidist" or "apyramidist" or "non-pyramidist" if something becomes prominent enough in culture, it may become necessary to specify, that you are not a "pyramidist". You invent the term because someone else has made it seem too much like the default position for everyone.
I don't want to be a pyramidist.
I don't want to be a theist.
ergo, atheist. If everyone starts going around claiming they are a Zeus-est, and that catches on big, some people may have to specify, don't call me a Zeus-est. I'm AZeusest.
Quote: MangoJI see. That's why gambling, gay marriage, abortion, prostitution, euthanasia has never been an issue in politics - because the government is immune to religious believes. Right.Quote: vert1276no religious person has the power to restrict your rights...Only government can do that....
He never claimed it wasn't. All he said was that only the government can restrict your rights, and that's a true statement.
Quote: vert1276but I would not join an "earth is not flat" group....
Well, you might. What if the flat Earth people were able to make changes in society based on flat Earth belief?. Let's see... like because the Earth is flat, travel has to be balanced. They believe that if too many people are on one side, the Earth will become unstable and tip. So they put your vacation on hold until a certain number of people return from that area.
If beliefs don't have much real world effect and don't become too common, you probably get very few anti- belief people.
Here, each side is calling the other flat Earthers, in a sense.
Quote: vert1276I guess I just never thought as atheism as an "interest"...that's why I find it confusing.....
Such "confusion" is common when one tries to foist one's notions onto others.
Quote: vert1276Its a belief that there is no deity.....So there common "interest" is that they all don't believe in the same thing?
No. Look at the first way that you stated it -- "Its a belief that there is no deity."
So, the common "interest" among atheists is that they all believe the same thing -- that there is no deity.
Quote: vert1276Seems very strange to me....
A buddhist deep in Asia might find christianity strange. That doesn't make christians objectively strange any more than your notions of atheists make atheists objectively strange.
Quote: vert1276Like for example I don't believe the earth is flat...but I would not join an "earth is not flat" group....
Actually, you believe that the earth is round -- you might join an "earth is round" group.
Quote: vert1276I guess what I'm tryin to say is I think of atheism as a state of mind not an "interest" ...that's all.....So atheist groups seem very weird to me....
Try to be open-minded to others who are different -- you might seem just as weird to them.
Focus on more on the things that you have in common with others, rather than dwell on differences that seem peculiar.
Personally, I've decide the Aggressive Atheistic view of mocking the 'magical sky fairy' as unhelpful and pointless(*)... unless people use it as part of a logical, scientific argument, then I find it quite irittating to reduce the magic of the physical world into a 'God did it'.
(*) I did not always hold that view, but militant atheism just isn't going to work. The quiet revolution seems to be doing so.
Quote: thecesspitThis sort of athestic group may have meetings or a 'church' to promote and teach it's thought process, and that seems as valid as Baptist Church doing the same.
No "seems" about it -- atheism is just as valid (if not more so {being based on facts/science and not faith}) as any church.
Quote: vert1276Cult members? It just seems very weird to me...whats the point? I can see why "believers" would form groups...but why would none believers form groups?...It would be like if people who don't like chocolate ice cream formed a group to discuss their opinions that chocolate ice cream was not a good flavor...and were trying to convince others not to eat chocolate ice cream....and trying to get ads on public land for chocolate ice cream taken down....To form a group like that seems kind of "cultish" IMO.....Of course if fans of chocolate ice cream formed a group...that seems totally normal to me.....
People form groups for many reasons, all it takes is a common interest. Who cares if atheists or believers get together to do whatever it is they want to do?
Quote: rxwineWell, you might. What if the flat Earth people were able to make changes in society based on flat Earth belief?
So you are trying to say that atheist groups are really a political action groups?....So why call it an atheist group?
Quote: onenickelmiracleIt seems to me they would have very little in common, but they have them. Believing in nothing which can't be proven seems like a boring connection to have. Internet trolling parties would probably be the highlight of their lives.
Perhaps one of the stronger common bonds that they share is having to suffer ignorant remarks made at their expense.
Quote: vert1276So you are trying to say that atheist groups are really a political action groups?....So why call it an atheist group?
We seem to be missing the point here.
Quote: onenickelmiracleBelieving in nothing which can't be proven seems like a boring connection to have.
Good God, who cares if someone that doesn't want to belong to the group doesn't "get" the group? Watching reality TV seems boring to me and it sure doesn't stop a lot of people from doing it. But guess what.... and this is the best part.... it doesn't matter if I get it or not, they are following their interest and doing what they want.
Freedom, what a concept.
Quote: rxwineDuffman, do you remember new agey stuff that came along like "Pyramid Power"? Some people said if you built a pyramid and sit under it you get some power funneled into your head or something.
Anyway, while there never came a need to become an "unpyramidist" or "apyramidist" or "non-pyramidist" if something becomes prominent enough in culture, it may become necessary to specify, that you are not a "pyramidist". You invent the term because someone else has made it seem too much like the default position for everyone.
I don't want to be a pyramidist.
I don't want to be a theist.
ergo, atheist. If everyone starts going around claiming they are a Zeus-est, and that catches on big, some people may have to specify, don't call me a Zeus-est. I'm AZeusest.
Never heard of the Pyrimid thing. But we have been thru this on the board before.
If you just do not care about religion, you are "agnostic." As an example I will use how I feel about the NBA. I don't care about it. I don't follow it. If you asked me to name 10 players I would have to go and ask someone. The only time I would join a conversation on it would be if the conversation involved something else, say are the TV rights a good buy for network TV. The only person I know much about involved in the NBA is Mark Cuban, and just because he is on "Shark Tank." The only reason I have read a little extra about him is that he grew up just a few miles from me.
For "Atheist" I will use your example:
Quote: rxwineA good example is why be a climate change denier. Because if you don't believe just don't join any climate change initiative. Except, beliefs matter here.
On global warming, I *do* have a strong belief, I believe what we are being sold is a hoax. I believe this based on science and a good dose of common sense. I believe we are being sold this global warming thing as an excuse for government to raise taxes, take away freedoms, and allow cronies like Al Gore to make their own personal fortune off of it while they live like kings doing what they tell us is "bad for the planet." Yes, beliefs do matter here because we have a POTUS hell-bent on destroying the current energy industry based on it, and 47% of the population does not seem to notice what is happening, they are too busy worrying about Kim Kardashian's life (which for me might be of even less interest than the NBA!)
Quote: Sabretom2There are many on this forum I would rather not meet. Especially those who seem to spend most of their time letting me know they're smarter than me.
I'm smarter than you are(*), and would love to meet you so I can prove myself wrong ;)
(*) Not really.
PS, there is a God
Quote: Sabretom2I'm a heterosexual, gun toting, southern white male. That alone, places me way below the idiot line.
PS, there is a God
We need more such idiots! I'm from above M-D, can I get some kind of associate membership?
Quote: AZDuffmanWe need more such idiots! I'm from above M-D, can I get some kind of associate membership?
Welcome, just don't tell your neighbors.
Quote: AZDuffmanIf you just do not care about religion, you are "agnostic." As an example I will use how I feel about the NBA. I don't care about it. I don't follow it. If you asked me to name 10 plahyers I would have to go and ask someone.
Well, then, I guess I would characterize the "agnostics" as someone who hasn't had traffic jams affect his travel because of NBA beliefs of the the NBA believers.
Yes, we could all be the "agnostics" as long nothing bothered us, or we could live away from anything the believers might be up to.
So, when a belief exists we may be agnostics about it, and never any reason to become opinionated about it initially. But that may not last.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyGood God, who cares if someone that doesn't want to belong to the group doesn't "get" the group? Watching reality TV seems boring to me and it sure doesn't stop a lot of people from doing it. But guess what.... and this is the best part.... it doesn't matter if I get it or not, they are following their interest and doing what they want.
Freedom, what a concept.
Totally agree with you monkey. Freedom is great.
A little surprised to hear your opinion on religion and see your final quote " freedom, what a concept " when you feel strongly about not giving gay people the same freedoms as straight people.
Quote: BeardgoatTotally agree with you monkey. Freedom is great.
A little surprised to hear your opinion on religion and see your final quote " freedom, what a concept " when you feel strongly about not giving gay people the same freedoms as straight people.
I think you must be reading me wrong. I don't want to derail this thread but hopefully a quick summary won't send us off the rails.
I don't have any problem with gay folks getting "married", I just think it should be called a civil union. I don't think marriage should convey any special benefit except that which you believe you're getting from the deity of your choice smiling upon you. And that civil union thing? It should be available to ALL people, in any configuration under the sun. I'm all about freedom. If you detect a spiteful tone it's disdain for the hypocrisy of those that would like to secure a right for a SELECT group of people while denying it to others.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't have any problem with gay folks getting "married", I just think it should be called a civil union. I don't think marriage should convey any special benefit except that which you believe you're getting from the deity of your choice smiling upon you.
So what deity blessed my car during its body's marriage to its drivetrain? Was it the Ghost of St.Ferdinand? I imagine like a tooth fairy, but slightly balding, with a moustache, and casting blessings with a monkey wrench.
Was it a sin to separate them for emergency repairs, and would it have been a travesty if the drivetrain got married to another body?
Quote: vert1276no religious person has the power to restrict your rights...Only government can do that....
Indeed. Religious groups never use the state to restrict people's freedom.
Quote: P90So what deity blessed my car during its body's marriage to its drivetrain? Was it the Ghost of St.Ferdinand? I imagine like a tooth fairy, but slightly balding, with a moustache, and casting blessings with a monkey wrench.
Was it a sin to separate them for emergency repairs, and would it have been a travesty if the drivetrain got married to another body?
I don't know what's it's year, make and model?
Your fairy sounds a little like Dennis Franz though. Hope this helps.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI think you must be reading me wrong. I don't want to derail this thread but hopefully a quick summary won't send us off the rails.
I don't have any problem with gay folks getting "married", I just think it should be called a civil union. I don't think marriage should convey any special benefit except that which you believe you're getting from the deity of your choice smiling upon you. And that civil union thing? It should be available to ALL people, in any configuration under the sun. I'm all about freedom. If you detect a spiteful tone it's disdain for the hypocrisy of those that would like to secure a right for a SELECT group of people while denying it to others.
Yeah I must have been reading you wrong. Or my comprehension sucks haha.... Or both. Anyway thanks for clearing it up to me.
Quote: MonkeyMonkeyI don't know what's it's year, make and model?
The make that doesn't know what a model is and thinks every year is the year to vote for Arbeiterpartie, of course.
Quote: tuppSuch "confusion" is common when one tries to foist one's notions onto others.
No. Look at the first way that you stated it -- "Its a belief that there is no deity."
So, the common "interest" among atheists is that they all believe the same thing -- that there is no deity.
A buddhist deep in Asia might find christianity strange. That doesn't make christians objectively strange any more than your notions of atheists make atheists objectively strange.
Actually, you believe that the earth is round -- you might join an "earth is round" group.
Try to be open-minded to others who are different -- you might seem just as weird to them.
Focus on more on the things that you have in common with others, rather than dwell on differences that seem peculiar.
That is the problem with our society today is that we are wayyy too open minded. We must stand for something or we are nothing. I beleve in allowing people to love thier lives however, when one attempts to tell the world that their way is the only way then .... is when I believe we need to stop.
As for this prop 8 thing... I have many friends that are wuote unquote different or living alternate life styles and I am not opposed to them doing so so as long as they do not impinge their beliefs upon me or society. Yet I become very perterved becaus ethe government is paving the way for them to give their significant other benefits and That is where I draw the line. My question is: so in order to put my elderly parent or my adult child on my benefits I woudl have to profess to the world that I am living an alternate liife style with those folks? This is unfair. I do not care of people live their lives as they want but when government starts handing out extra rights based on that then is when I get heated and do not like or respect that population. My parents worked and paid into the system as well as my adult child and when they need teh benefots I have I shodl be allowed to give them those just as someone living an alternate life style is being allowed to do now per our supreme court. So where is the equality here !!? I believe all people are created equal why are we treated indifferent ? That os what causes society to hate on others of different lifestyles, religions, beliefs etc... Government cultivates that hate.
Quote: siliconeThat is the problem with our society today is that we are wayyy too open minded. We must stand for something or we are nothing.
"Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing" aka "the virtue of a man without convictions.
To those who wish to live in a "tolerant society" i say "may your wished come true."
Quote: rxwineWell, you might. What if the flat Earth people were able to make changes in society based on flat Earth belief?. Let's see... like because the Earth is flat, travel has to be balanced. They believe that if too many people are on one side, the Earth will become unstable and tip. So they put your vacation on hold until a certain number of people return from that area.
If beliefs don't have much real world effect and don't become too common, you probably get very few anti- belief people.
Would an atheist even believe society even exists? Logically, the idea of society is merely the opinions of others passed on as facts to sway individual actions or complacency.
Quote: AZDuffman"Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing" aka "the virtue of a man without convictions.
To those who wish to live in a "tolerant society" i say "may your wished come true."
Well quoted. Thank You
Quote: onenickelmiracleWould an atheist even believe society even exists? Logically, the idea of society is merely the opinions of others passed on as facts to sway individual actions or complacency.
There's that whole "I think therefore I am" at least. If the rest of society is a complete illusion, then it is still an illusion I see. As of yet, not seen a winged Mercury figure, except on old dimes.
These illusions can also punch you in the face. Saying hey, fuck off, Illusion may cause one of them to do so. While it may not be proof there is anything out there besides me, this kind of evidence is enough for me.
Quote: AZDuffmanTo those who wish to live in a "tolerant society" i say "may your wished come true."
There is no such thing as a tolerant society.
Countries that employed a policy of "tolerance" towards incompatible cultures only amounted to petri dishes of protected intolerance by violent minorities.
Quote: P90There is no such thing as a tolerant society.
Countries that employed a policy of "tolerance" towards incompatible cultures only amounted to petri dishes of protected intolerance by violent minorities.
Question for anyone. How do you square the constitutional freedom of religion against something like Islam. If you don't think Islam is good for the country.
Say a practical solution, not just ideas that could never pass muster in any real sense. Bombing is illegal, and plotting, and so forth already, so that part is already in action.
You gonna enact thought laws or something? If you try to pass that a religion isn't permitted, that should be interesting in the SCOTUS.
Quote: rxwineThere's that whole "I think therefore I am" at least.
I used to have a sign that said, "Don't mind me, I am just a figment of my own imagination."
Quote: rxwineQuestion for anyone. How do you square the constitutional freedom of religion against something like Islam.
You don't.
"Freedom of religion" originally meant to answer just one question, but a very important one at that time: would USA be a Catholic or a Protestant country? The answer was "we allow both". That was it.
It was never meant to protect religions. It was only meant to protect people from persecution because they weren't "faithful" by the protestant or the catholic definition. Atheism wasn't even recognized as a possible position back then.
People are reading into the constitution what it never said. Seeking "positive rights" - firmly rejected as a fallacy until very recent hollow debates, and not even a thought back in the 1700s. There are no "positive rights", because such "rights" - or privileges to be more precise - are impossible to guarantee without violating the three fundamental human rights.
The right to life is a right not to be killed. The right to liberty is a right to find your own path in life, not to have paths tailored just for you. The right to property is a right to acquire property, not an entitlement to be handed out property. Why do people view religious freedom any different?
Quote: P90
"Freedom of religion" was only meant to protect people from persecution because they weren't "faithful" by the protestant or the catholic definition.
I am not sure what your point was, but I guess Freedom of Religion according to your interpretation was intended to do exactly what it is supposed to do today - protect people from persecution because of their religion, be they atheist, muslim or Pastafarian.
RAMEN
Quote: Sabretom2I'm a heterosexual, gun toting, southern white male. That alone, places me way below the idiot line.
PS, there is a God
Hello Eric, how's the family, check out those charitable contributions, bet they top yours.
Quote: tuppNo "seems" about it -- atheism is just as valid (if not more so {being based on facts/science and not faith}) as any church.
this is a common misconception. Atheism is not based on facts/science any more than religious belief. Science cannot test or prove that there is a God or that there is not a God. There are some facts/science that point to God's existence and there are some that seem to point away from God.
