s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
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October 13th, 2012 at 9:05:30 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Do you really think there is no spiritual realm or immaterial realities like souls or spirits? When you see a corpse what is different about that human being whose heart has stopped beating and the moment before it stopped? What about the difference between us and every other living thing that exists? I think if you reflect on these things you might find some reasonable evidence for the existence of souls which goes a little beyond "wishful thinking".

I've reflected on these things and have concluded that believing in gods and goddesses is wishful thinking. There are no spiritual realms or invisible friends. The difference between a dead person and a living person is that a dead person no longer has the capacity to sustain the basic functions of living in their body thus leading to catastrophic failure of all of the other parts of the body that are involved with living. A living person retains the capacity to remain alive at that moment.

The difference between humans and every other living being is insignificant since we all share the same basic structure, DNA. If you go back far enough, we ( humans and all other species ) come from the same "Eve" critter and through evolution have become separate and distinct. My ancestor may not have been a monkey but a monkey and I do share a common ancestor.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
MangoJ
MangoJ
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October 13th, 2012 at 9:14:51 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

Do you really think there is no spiritual realm or immaterial realities like souls or spirits?



What about drowned people who got successfully revived after 30 or more minutes ?
So their soul gets disconnected from the body at the death, and naturally evolves to the spritiual realm. And then by some *physical* action in this very world, the soul is forced to return from the spiritual realm back into the body ?

Do you really believe that ? Because if you do, you contradict yourself as the "spiritual realm" or the immaterial soul must then already be part of the physical reality, which is very accessible by scientific methods (at a last resort by unmoral drowning experiments).
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 13th, 2012 at 9:16:56 PM permalink
Ever notice primitive cultures never worry about
what happens after death, they accept it as a part
of life. Its only as people get sophisticated and away
from their roots that they start to worry about it.

Judaism is a sophisticated religion from a sophistcated
society. It gave birth to Christianity and later, Islam.
Its a lot of sturm and drang and politics and hand wringing.
Mormonism is another offshoot.

I'd rather trust primitive societies where the ridiculous
concept of sin doesn't exist. I pity the padre, he has
an antiquated product he's selling to a modern world.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 13th, 2012 at 9:44:59 PM permalink
Quote: MangoJ

What about drowned people who got successfully revived after 30 or more minutes ?
So their soul gets disconnected from the body at the death, and naturally evolves to the spritiual realm. And then by some *physical* action in this very world, the soul is forced to return from the spiritual realm back into the body ?

Do you really believe that ? Because if you do, you contradict yourself as the "spiritual realm" or the immaterial soul must then already be part of the physical reality, which is very accessible by scientific methods (at a last resort by unmoral drowning experiments).



I do think that the spiritual and the physical are very much connected and that what we do or what happens to us physically can either positively or negatively effect us spiritually. The soul is very much a part of who we are as human beings and it can be accessed through poetic, musical, logical, philosophical, and theological methods but not strictly speaking scientific methods.
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 13th, 2012 at 9:47:08 PM permalink
EvenBob: I'm sorry to say this but I think your made up truths don't have any facts.
EvenBob
EvenBob
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October 13th, 2012 at 9:52:04 PM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

EvenBob: I'm sorry to say this but I think your made up truths don't have any facts.



Which facts did I make up? Don't do that, be specific.
"It's not enough to succeed, your friends must fail." Gore Vidal
MangoJ
MangoJ
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October 14th, 2012 at 4:38:13 AM permalink
Quote: FrGamble

I do think that the spiritual and the physical are very much connected and that what we do or what happens to us physically can either positively or negatively effect us spiritually.



Besides technological or moral issues however there is no fundamental reason why this "connection" cannot be studied with scientific methods simply by trail&fail. And once it is studied and understood, it very much becomes part of the physical realm (and thus was part of the physical realm beforehand).

Either there is a true spiritual realm - but then it cannot be connected to the physical realm.
Or the is no spiritual realm in the first place.

The revival of a by any other means dead person proves to me (by contradiction) that there is no spiritual realm. You cannot have both a spiritual but physical realm.
FrGamble
FrGamble
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October 14th, 2012 at 5:54:44 AM permalink
I'm not sure I understand why you think the spiritual cannot be connected to the physical. Even if the two are connected the limitations of science show that it can only deal with that which it can examine, measure, and test none of which can be done to the spiritual no matter how intimately connected these two realms are. As my tag line gives away I like Sting, here are some lyrics from his song, "Nothing about me" that express how helpless science can be in truly understanding who a human being really is.

Lay my head on the surgeon's table
Take me fingerprints if you are able
Pick my brains, pick my pockets
Steal my eyeballs and come back for the sockets
Run every kind of test from A to Z
And you'll still know nothing 'bout me

Run my name through your computer
Mention me in passing to your college tutor
Check my records, check my facts
Check if I paid my income tax
Pour over everything in my C.V.
But you'll still know nothing 'bout me
You'll still know nothing 'bout me
s2dbaker
s2dbaker
Joined: Jun 10, 2010
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October 14th, 2012 at 6:36:22 AM permalink
I too am curious about what facts EvenBob made up. Can you be more specific FrGamble?
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
FrGamble
FrGamble
Joined: Jun 5, 2011
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October 14th, 2012 at 11:36:50 AM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

Ever notice primitive cultures never worry about
what happens after death, they accept it as a part
of life. Its only as people get sophisticated and away
from their roots that they start to worry about it.

Judaism is a sophisticated religion from a sophistcated
society. It gave birth to Christianity and later, Islam.
Its a lot of sturm and drang and politics and hand wringing.
Mormonism is another offshoot.

I'd rather trust primitive societies where the ridiculous
concept of sin doesn't exist. I pity the padre, he has
an antiquated product he's selling to a modern world.



There are no facts here at all just some opinion pretending to be truth. I would say that primitive cultures worry tremendously about what happens after death including putting food and money in with the mummified coffins. I also think Bob's comment about sin not existing in primitive societies holds no water, where does such a statement come from and on what is it based? Finally, I don't know why one would call Judaism a sophisticated religion. I think it is beautiful in its simplicity - God loves His chosen people and teaches and prepares them for an everlasting covenant and the promise of a Messiah.

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