"Innocence of Muslims"
All because of this ...
Innocence of Muslims
Hell of a way to commemorate the eleventh anniversary of 9-11.
Quote: MrVThe U.S. Ambassador in Libya was murdered.
All because of this ...
Innocence of Muslims
Hell of a way to commemorate the eleventh anniversary of 9-11.
Why not? The response of the Embassy in Egypt was to apologize to the protestors for offending them!
Do nothing?
Nuke em all, and take all the oil?
Something in between?
Sometimes the "World's Cop" needs to crack some heads with a nightstick ...
Quote: MrVHow should we respond to this?
Do nothing?
Nuke em all, and take all the oil?
Something in between?
Sometimes the "World's Cop" needs to crack some heads with a nightstick ...
The PC mindset in the USA will prevent us from doing anything. We are so bent on saying, "this wasn't all muslims, just a few who roited, we must remember that...." such that any real response is impolitic. We are so bent on saying "this is a religion of peace and tolerance" that too many are blind to see this is not the case. And we have leadership so intent on "not offending" that we will not respond.
Oh, I forgot my previous post, the response was to apologize to the Egyptian rioters for upsetting them!
Lets remember that this is a religon that when it started would tell people "join or die." If you were Christian or Jewish you had the option of paying a 50% tax or converting. They have lately driven any nonbelievers out of most muslim countries. Having a Bible in Saudi Arabia will get you thrown in jail. Saying something against the religion can get you a mafia-style open contract on your life. Being born a female can get you killed for the "crime" of BEING raped.
Someone needs to explain to me why this group is shown so much respect?
Quote: AZDuffmanSomeone needs to explain to me why this group is shown so much respect?
Uh ... because Obama is reputed to have pro-Muslim and anti-Israel sympathies?
Quote: AZDuffmanThe PC mindset in the USA will prevent us from doing anything.
I don't know about that. A lot of people will expect some sort of response, and Obama may feel pressured to do something right now.
Quote: pacomartinI don't know about that. A lot of people will expect some sort of response, and Obama may feel pressured to do something right now.
I'd expect a response similar to what happened in '98. it's a little harder this time around, since the attackers this time were less organized and may not have a central base/camp to bomb.
What is this "world's cop" nonsense? We should remember the territorial boundaries of the USA. If other countries go to war and slaughter each other ... so what? Friendly toward all, allied with none means just that.Quote: MrVSometimes the "World's Cop" needs to crack some heads with a nightstick ...
Quote: FleaStiffWe should remember the territorial boundaries of the USA.
All American embassies are on U.S. soil by definition. So, what should we do?
Quote: FleaStiffWhat is this "world's cop" nonsense? We should remember the territorial boundaries of the USA. If other countries go to war and slaughter each other ... so what? Friendly toward all, allied with none means just that.
Being the world's most powerful and largest military and economy gets you responsibilities. Just like Charles Barkley said "I didn't ask to be a role model" the answer is, "Tough, you are."
But the "World's Cop" has to be seen within USA Interests. The interest of the USA is that there is instability and rialry in most places, just not so much that one power develops regional hegemony or a real bad war breaks out. India, Pakistan, China, and Russia in a Mexican Standoff is exactly what is good for the USA, as long as no nukes get set off.
Quote: FleaStiffWhat is this "world's cop" nonsense?
What, did you snooze during your Modern American History lessons?
Quote: AZDuffmanLets remember that this is a religon that when it started would tell people "join or die." If you were Christian or Jewish you had the option of paying a 50% tax or converting.
What, where do you think Christianity and Judaism came from?
Quote: 24BingoWhat, where do you think Christianity and Judaism came from?
I don't recall anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said to kill those who did not follow him. Never saw it from Abraham, either. But Mohamad did say to do this.
And I do not see Christians or Jews even today killing over something they find "offensive" to their religion.
Quote: AZDuffmanI don't recall anywhere in the Bible where Jesus said to kill those who did not follow him. Never saw it from Abraham, either. But Mohamad did say to do this.
Sure, but Abraham never existed. Josiah did exist, and did make such orders.
Jesus didn't found Christianity as we know it. Constantine did.
Quote: 24BingoSure, but Abraham never existed. Josiah did exist, and did make such orders.
Jesus didn't found Christianity as we know it. Constantine did.
And the proof for these statements? Somewhere in "Mein Kampf"?
"It is understandable that the senseless killing of an ambassador is bigger news than the senseless killing of an unknown, obscure Yemeni or Pakistani child. But it's anything but understandable to regard the former as more tragic than the latter. Yet there's no denying that the same people today most vocally condemning the Benghazi killings are quick and eager to find justification when the killing of innocents is done by their government, rather than aimed at it"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/12/tragic-consulate-killings-libya
Quote: FleaStiffAn all out war of attrition that bankrupts all their treasuries and depletes all their population is in American interests.
That's one vote for genocide....
Quote: bigfoot66I've got a really crazy idea. Try this on for size: Maybe these people would not hate America if the government here did not regualrly bomb their people and occupy their streets.
No. I am pretty sure we did not bomb Egypt. I am pretty sure Libya hated us before we bombed them since when we did it was a response to their sponsorship of terrorism
Quote: AZDuffmanNo. I am pretty sure we never not bomb Egypt.
Awesome double-negative:-)
I'd expect the response in Egypt to be milder, anyway. That mob didn't kill any Americans.
Quote: rdw4potusAwesome double-negative:-)
I'd expect the response in Egypt to be milder, anyway. That mob didn't kill any Americans.
No, they just raped one repeatedly and passed her around through a cheering crowd... (i may be thinking of a British woman, but I'll bet the fine men in the crowd couldn't tell the difference)
BTW, you say bombing Lybia was a response to terrorism, fine. But the islamists would also argue that 9/11 was their response to American state-sponsored terrorism. I am not trying to defend these people, I am simply trying to point out that the way they see it. I am sure if the N. Koreans had a large base between Laughlin and Vegas we would probably not view that very positively either....
Quote: bigfoot66God bless Glenn Greenwald:
"It is understandable that the senseless killing of an ambassador is bigger news than the senseless killing of an unknown, obscure Yemeni or Pakistani child. But it's anything but understandable to regard the former as more tragic than the latter. Yet there's no denying that the same people today most vocally condemning the Benghazi killings are quick and eager to find justification when the killing of innocents is done by their government, rather than aimed at it"
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/sep/12/tragic-consulate-killings-libya
The death of the Ambassador was NOT fueled by the deaths of children in Yemen or Pakistan; it was triggered by the "devout" Muslims taking umbrage at a sharp poke in the eye by a reportedly Jewish / pro-Israel film-maker with a wry sense of humor.
If they had any guts, the arabs would attack Israel...again...and lose...again...
Quote: rdw4potusAwesome double-negative:-)
I'd expect the response in Egypt to be milder, anyway. That mob didn't kill any Americans.
iPhone post.
Egypt is a powder keg. Huge and angry population just ousted a leader who tried some reform. Sound like Iran in 1979?
Quote: MrVThe death of the Ambassador was NOT fueled by the deaths of children in Yemen or Pakistan; it was triggered by the "devout" Muslims taking umbrage at a sharp poke in the eye by a reportedly Jewish / pro-Israel film-maker with a wry sense of humor.
If they had any guts, the arabs would attack Israel...again...and lose...again...
Its not that simple. Yes, they have some religious radicals with scary beliefs over there. A lot of them are radicalized by their experiences watching their friends die. People don't like watching their children die senselessly, and American Imperialism breeds hatred of America just as happened with other imperial nations in history. Ask the Indians how they feel about the UK, for example....
Quote: AZDuffmaniPhone post.
Egypt is a powder keg. Huge and angry population just ousted a leader who tried some reform. Sound like Iran in 1979?
Sure. And USA 2012:-)
Quote: AZDuffmaniPhone post.
Egypt is a powder keg. Huge and angry population just ousted a leader who tried some reform. Sound like Iran in 1979?
By "leader who tried some reform" do you mean brutal dictator who ruled for thirty years..?
Quote: bigfoot66It's like they said in South Park. We have been given the right to choose between a giant douche and a turd sandwich.
Hmm...what would Brian Boitano do if he were here right now?
Quote: WongBoBy "leader who tried some reform" do you mean brutal dictator who ruled for thirty years..?
I mean a leader who allowed some level of peace with Israel and did business with western nations.
What? You brainwashed into thinking genocide is bad? Everytime you take a shower you darn near wipe out several types of bacteria. This is genocide and if not approved by you is at the very least approved by those down wind of you. What would you do with tenants who refused to let you spray for roaches because it was genocide? I suppose you were up in arms over those attempts to commit genocide against the polio virus and small pox virus.Quote: WongBoThat's one vote for genocide....
I'm reminded of some American diplomat who complained during the Balkan wars that one side was killing the other side's males and raping their females. The response was 'Only you silly Americans would ever have us kill the females and rape the males'.
Quote: bigfoot66
BTW, you say bombing Lybia was a response to terrorism, fine. But the islamists would also argue that 9/11 was their response to American state-sponsored terrorism. I am not trying to defend these people, I am simply trying to point out that the way they see it. I am sure if the N. Koreans had a large base between Laughlin and Vegas we would probably not view that very positively either....
We might not at that, but you can bet that the N Koreans would not be apologizing for antagonizing us if we rioted at their embassy.
IIRC, the beef the 9/11 terrorists had was that the US Troops were on "Holy Soil" nevermind that they were protecting Saudi Arabia from invasion. You could equate that to would France have sent terrorists to NYC in 1920 for defending France from the Germans?
The fact is, the hate is directed by the powers in charge in those countries because it is good for business. If you are a leader and things are not great, deflect attention somewhere else. From Egyptians attacking our embassy because muslim leaders direct them to right down to powers in the USA saying Health Insurance and Oil Companies are "greedy, and making windfall profits."
BTW: This just was on Limbaugh. Seems some are saying they are upset with the USA because we killed Bin Ladden. Should we not have done that to avoid offending them?
seems to be in a bad mood.
Why can we not punish these religious leaders who preach hatred and violence? Wouldn't that be the right way to go about eradicating this problem? It seems to me that they are the source of most evil. And these clowns exist in all of the various religions..........
Quote: AZDuffman
BTW: This just was on Limbaugh. Seems some are saying they are upset with the USA because we killed Bin Ladden. Should we not have done that to avoid offending them?
"some are saying:" Other than Limbaugh himself, who is saying that?
Quote: steeldco
Why can we not punish these religious leaders who preach hatred and violence? Wouldn't that be the right way to go about eradicating this problem? It seems to me that they are the source of most evil. And these clowns exist in all of the various religions..........
There may be a few bad apples in other religions, but preaching hatred and violence seems to be a pillar of muslim teaching. Consider that Christians, Jews, and Hindus have their differences; but they all mostly get along. Muslims are at war with all of these religions wherever they geographically meet, and even worldwide. To say "they all do it" is to ignore the problem.
And before anyone blames it on "religion" it is not merely a "God" thing. Look at some of the radicals in the envrionmental movement. Look at some of the animal rights extremists. Those two groups are more property-damage than terror, but they are not as well developed for 1,000 years, either.
Quote: bigfoot66You may argue that they are heroes, but the people on the recieving end of the bombs and bullets (and their neighbors) see it differently.
You don't need killing to set people against you in an occupied county.
Consider if Americans in a US city ran into a road block of foreign troops one morning that hindered their morning commute. The outrage -- who are these peeps who stop me in my own country?
That's all it takes to start brewing hatred. But we expect better behavoir of people in other countries for some reason.
Quote: rdw4potus"some are saying:" Other than Limbaugh himself, who is saying that?
I didn't hear the entire call or cite, just a blip as I drove from one place to another. I cited all the source I have. For details check his website at www.rushlimbaugh.com, usually updated by 17:00 EDT.
Quote: buzzpaffI can not go to that website. My wife has a strict rules about me associating with druggies.
I guess you are not allowed to support Obama then?
Limbaugh is not, nor has he ever been a user of illegal drugs so I do not see your point.
Here is another cite. Seems the crowd is chanting "WE ARE ALL OSAMA!" in Egypt.
Quote: AZDuffmanTo say "they all do it" is to ignore the problem.
To say "they all do it" is to ignore the problem. .
"To say "they all do it" is to ignore the problem."
Not at all. Just the opposite. Not acknowledging that they all do it is ignoring the problem.
"And before anyone blames it on "religion" it is not merely a "God" thing. Look at some of the radicals in the envrionmental movement. Look at some of the animal rights extremists. Those two groups are more property-damage than terror, but they are not as well developed for 1,000 years, either."
I would agree with you since I absolutely believe that extremists of any type are generally followers of low level intelligence. However, I think that the poor religious leaders are more prevalent and would start there. And BTW, I'm absolutely a big believer in freedom and free speech. However, there is no room for condoning violence.
Looks like a druggie to me !
Quote: AZDuffman
Limbaugh is not, nor has he ever been a user of illegal drugs so I do not see your point.
I thought they determined that he'd bought Oxy and Vicodin without a prescription.
edit: Thanks Buzz. Not without a prescription. With many overlapping ones. Illegal either way...
Quote: AZDuffmanThe PC mindset in the USA will prevent us from doing anything. We are so bent on saying, "this wasn't all muslims, just a few who roited, we must remember that...." such that any real response is impolitic. We are so bent on saying "this is a religion of peace and tolerance" that too many are blind to see this is not the case. And we have leadership so intent on "not offending" that we will not respond.
What response do you think we should use? Should we invade? Should we kill one of their diplomats? Should we try to prove that we have the moral high ground that we like to brag about?
Quote: MrVThe death of the Ambassador was NOT fueled by the deaths of children in Yemen or Pakistan; it was triggered by the "devout" Muslims taking umbrage at a sharp poke in the eye by a reportedly Jewish / pro-Israel film-maker with a wry sense of humor.
The death was triggered by radicals being radical and using any remote reason to justify their violence to the less radical around them.
Quote: FleaStiffWhat? You brainwashed into thinking genocide is bad? Everytime you take a shower you darn near wipe out several types of bacteria. This is genocide and if not approved by you is at the very least approved by those down wind of you. What would you do with tenants who refused to let you spray for roaches because it was genocide? I suppose you were up in arms over those attempts to commit genocide against the polio virus and small pox virus.
Those are not people.
Quote: AZDuffmanThere may be a few bad apples in other religions, but preaching hatred and violence seems to be a pillar of muslim teaching. Consider that Christians, Jews, and Hindus have their differences; but they all mostly get along. Muslims are at war with all of these religions wherever they geographically meet, and even worldwide.
I would say in the US it is more that Christians are at war with Muslims.
I wonder if you actually know any Muslims. I can safely say that 100% of the Muslims I know are indistinguishable from Christians or Jews. It's no secret that all religious texts have extreme positions on things that no one in the mainstream follows.
I am not trying to be an appologist for America, but this looks like a criminal action, not a declaration of war.
Quote: kulinWhat response do you think we should use? Should we invade? Should we kill one of their diplomats? Should we try to prove that we have the moral high ground that we like to brag
I would consider making most to all of their diplomats persona-non-grata and and send them home. Just an idea.
Quote:
I wonder if you actually know any Muslims. I can safely say that 100% of the muslims I know are indistinguishable from Christians or Jews. It's no secret that all religious texts have extreme possitions on things that no one in the mainstream follows.
I have met a few. You are falling into the trap of "I never met a bad one.". Germans might have been good as individuals, but we still fought two wars against them. It does not change the fact that there are plenty of bad ones and they mean us harm. Get them alone and what you will hear might be very different than when you are nearby.
