I am an Agnostic Conservative Republican and proud of it
That means there are at least 250,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 star systems that we can see.
There are only 700,500,000,000,000,000,000 grains of sand on earth.
Therefore there are more visible star systems than grains of sand on earth - and in a few years we will find even more stars and galaxies as our telescopes get better. The numbers are so large that even our national debt is dwarfed by them.
Earth turns out to be not very special at all; just another grain of sand on an infinite beach.
In reality there are probably an infinite number of galaxies out there - because the current "Big Bang Theory" is being replaced with the "Electric Model" of the universe where plasma/electricity is the dominant force in the universe and not puny gravity. The Electric Model of the Universe does not require the universe to have a beginning nor an end, it's just infinite in time and space. The Big Bang Theory (Gravity Model) requires so many crazy ideas, like black holes, Dark Matter and Dark Energy, to work that a flat earth is easier to explain than the Gravity Model of the Universe. No supernatural being is needed to kick-start our universe with the Electric Model. As you can imagine, a model of the universe that doesn't need a supernatural being is heresy to many scientists and will take generations to be eventually adopted.
Religion has always been a weapon of leaders, countries and even itself to control the mass of peoples - better be nice or you'll go to hell, kind of things. There are "special" people who read 2,000 year old fairy tails and then instruct their followers how to live their lives and how to be obedient to their leaders.
This is very similar to why so many gamblers search for "How to Beat Roulette/Gambling" - it's kind of like a religion; there are mysterious gamblers who they believe have discovered how to beat Roulette/gambling and they roam freebie chat rooms dropping "hints" yet never offering proof - just like religion. Don't believe it for a second.
Anyway, I'm a Conservative Republican and I don't need a religion to be one, which most folks believe is required - if you want to spend Fridays or Sundays in a building that demands your obedience and your money I have no problems with that.
Just don't demand I do the same...............
Quote: weaselmanBeliefs in pseudo scientific theories (like "Electric Universe" etc.) are worse than religion in more ways than one.
I'm an engineer and when I come across things that don't make any kind of sense I look for alternatives.
Religion, on the other hand, hates alternatives to it's dogma; when was the last time a religion held a conference asking for alternatives to their founding principles?
Religion is NOT based in science of any kind - science explains away the dogma and as our societies get smarter and smarter (home schooling) more and more of religious dogma will be challenged and found to be false and dumped.
But I don't care if you burn candles, count beads, kill chickens, or drink wine and crackers - more power to you. As a capitalist I'd love to sell you all those items.
Just realize that no proof will ever appear from science to backup any of your religious views - none, zip, zilch, nada; you're going to have to rely on wishful thinking.
Science and math can't help you.....
Quote: MauiSunsetI'm an engineer and when I come across things that don't make any kind of sense I look for alternatives.
Religion, on the other hand, hates alternatives to it's dogma; when was the last time a religion held a conference asking for alternatives to their founding principles?
Religion is an alternative explanation of reality just like your "electrical Universe" is. You look for alternatives in a different place, that's all the difference between you and some adept of religion. What you have in common is "looking for alternatives" in your imagination for things you don't understand.
The reason I said pseudo science is worth than religion is that the latter brings philosophical and spiritual benefits to humankind, while the former just dims the brightness of minds.
Quote: weaselmanReligion is an alternative explanation of reality just like your "electrical Universe" is. You look for alternatives in a different place, that's all the difference between you and some adept of religion. What you have in common is "looking for alternatives" in your imagination for things you don't understand.
The reason I said pseudo science is worth than religion is that the latter brings philosophical and spiritual benefits to humankind, while the former just dims the brightness of minds.
The thing about religion is that is shows up in just about every society in human history. And most religions bend in the same general directions of "be nice" and "why are we here and where are we going after we are gone?" The more scientiffic people tend to want to dismiss "God" and substitute "nature." It is rarely considered if "God = nature." These people prefer to think we can find the reason anything happens, ever. To a large extent this may be the case.
However, I always submit the same question to such people, and no answer ever comes about. "If matter can neither be craeted nor destroyed, where did all matter come from?" Or in simpler terms, "What was here one hour before 'The Big Bang.'" The first cannot be proven directly. The later may be someday.
Believer, agnostic, or atheist you have to admit it is hard for the human mind to grasp the concept of no beginning to everything.
Quote: MauiSunsetAnyway, I'm a Conservative Republican and I don't need a religion to be one, which most folks believe is required
I've never really understood why Christianity seems drawn to the Republican side. Need examples? I could name lots, but to name just a few: Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, Ann Coulter, Rick Perry.
It seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
Quote: WizardI've never really understood why Christianity seems drawn to the Republican side. Need examples? I could name lots, but to name just a few: Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, Ann Coulter, Rick Perry.
It seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
Examples.
1) abortion, left loves it, right hates it, christians side with the right.
2)seperation of church and state, left loves it right hates it, christians side with the right.
These are fundamental issues for christians they will not waver from them, and will always side with whom ever agrees period.
Yes sharing the pie may be what its all about. however man is involved he has a tendancy to be selfish greedy and likes to corrupt and manipulate things to his advantage.
Quote: AZDuffman...
However, I always submit the same question to such people, and no answer ever comes about. "If matter can neither be craeted nor destroyed, where did all matter come from?" Or in simpler terms, "What was here one hour before 'The Big Bang.'" ....
The Electric Model of the Universe has the solution to your question - it's real simple:
The net sum of the universe is zero.
It simply means that all the energy and matter net out to nothing, for every chunk of matter there is an equal chunk of anti-matter, same with energy.
It just makes common sense, the universe is balanced but that doesn't mean there can't be all kinds of things happening, just so that the final result is zero.
We just don't understand how all this works and for 200+ years we have been forced down the Gravity Model of the Universe path where some supreme being makes all the matter and energy and it explodes. It's so crazy that for the first 3 to 30 seconds after the big bang everything had to move trillions of times faster than the speed of light to make all this work.
Simpler is better..............
Quote: WizardI've never really understood why Christianity seems drawn to the Republican side. Need examples? I could name lots, but to name just a few: Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, Ann Coulter, Rick Perry.
It seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
As a Conservative who happens to be Republican I believe the following:
1) Reward achievement
2) Punish incompetence/laziness/stupidity
Marxists/Communists/Socialists all believe in the following:
1) Punish achievement
2) Reward incompetence
There are only 2 kinds of citizens:
1) Makers
2) Takers
Many models of society reflect that only 20% of any population are Makers with 80% being Takers. Problem is that each get just one vote.
So the only question is how do we want to view our society since the Makers are the achievers that build a society and the Takers are the opposite and destroy a society......
Governments must pick a model and either flourish or wither with that decision. My feeling is that America was Capitalistic until it's citizens wanted to experiment with Socialism in 2008.............
Quote: rainmanExamples.
1) abortion, left loves it,
Odd phrasing. But it made me chuckle.
Quote: WizardI've never really understood why Christianity seems drawn to the Republican side. Need examples? I could name lots, but to name just a few: Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, Ann Coulter, Rick Perry.
It seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
I think most Right wingers, myself included are more or less along the lines of give someone a fish, feed them for a day, teach someone how to fish and feed them for life. I think right wingers are more or less people who don't feel the world owes them anything and they tie up their bootstraps and do it themselves. Just like living a Christian lifestyle, it isn't easy, it is hard work and it takes commitment. Right wingers are all for helping those who cannot help themselves, I don't know anyone who wouldn't, what we are against are people who can help themselves and choose not to.
Quote: Maui SunsetThe net sum of the universe is zero.
Maui,
I read the same article.
And as they say, nothingness is quite unstable. This gives rise to the "multiverse". Where all possibilities can exist
We clearly evolved, and so could have a more advanced civilization.
After having become extremely advanced, such an advanced civilization much try terraforming and developing new life. In short, becoming like gods.
If you have a strong background in mathematics, then you would almost have to agree that the probability of there being a God is far more likely than the probability of there not being a god.
I believe that the current evidence points to the holographic universe. Our very existence appears to be very much like a very well programmed video game, run by a more advanced being - God.
FYI, I'm not referring to the "evangelical version" of God.
-Keyser
Quote: MauiSunsetIt's so crazy that for the first 3 to 30 seconds after the big bang everything had to move trillions of times faster than the speed of light to make all this work.....
It's not so crazy at all according to the Cosmic Inflation model. In fact, data from WMAP strongly supports the idea.
NASA/WMAP
...
Quote: Gabes22I think most Right wingers, myself included are more or less along the lines of give someone a fish, feed them for a day, teach someone how to fish and feed them for life. I think right wingers are more or less people who don't feel the world owes them anything and they tie up their bootstraps and do it themselves. Just like living a Christian lifestyle, it isn't easy, it is hard work and it takes commitment. Right wingers are all for helping those who cannot help themselves, I don't know anyone who wouldn't, what we are against are people who can help themselves and choose not to.
By this argument I would think that the education system in Red States would be significantly better than in Blue states. If the goal of the Right is to give people the knowledge to succeed and the left is to allow them to live off the state.
Quote: Wavy70Odd phrasing. But it made me chuckle.
I was in a hurry. :)
Quote: WizardIt seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
I shouldn't really get involved in this. But I need to ask: what part of Christianity, or Judaism, says "Take money and labor from your neighbor and give it to the needy"?
Quote: Gabes22I think most Right wingers, myself included are more or less along the lines of give someone a fish, feed them for a day, teach someone how to fish and feed them for life.
Then why are Republicans always quicker to cut school funding and student loans? In general, look at which states tend to have the best schools and they tend to be blue states. Yes, I know there are exceptions, you don't need to list some. Some even seem to have a disdain for higher education, as evidenced by Santorum's "what a snob" remark.
Quote: NareedI shouldn't really get involved in this. But I need to ask: what part of Christianity, or Judaism, says "Take money and labor from your neighbor and give it to the needy"?
How about the parts about tithing?
Quote: NareedI shouldn't really get involved in this. But I need to ask: what part of Christianity, or Judaism, says "Take money and labor from your neighbor and give it to the needy"?
Quote:English Standard Version (©2001)
Give to everyone who begs from you, and from one who takes away your goods do not demand them back.
That seems to say something like that.
Quote: WizardI've never really understood why Christianity seems drawn to the Republican side. Need examples? I could name lots, but to name just a few: Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, Ann Coulter, Rick Perry.
It seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
I've never understood where that impression comes from, other than the Democrat Party members who spew it all of the time. Conservatives give more to charity than liberals. I have found the average conservaitive is more respectful of other people's personal property than the average liberal as well.
The message of the GOP is more along the lines of, "lets do with as little government as possible, and we do not need a governmnet program to 'help people' every time there is a problem." The message includes working hard; taking personal responsibility; and making your own choices.
And remember, it is the democrats who "don't want to give a piece of THEIR pie" for their own birth control pills, college tuition interest payments, and 100 other things--their message is, "let the rich pay my way!"
But I do not think this is the only reason Christians are drawn to the GOP side. The Democrats give off a message of, "if it feels good, do it!" while people on the GOP side are more likely to like to live by some kind of code. Could be personal restraints; could be the church; could be the Marines, etc. But speaking from the conservative side (and I am Christian but really never liked chruch all that much) I can say I take a look at this kind of behavior and say, "no thanks."
1. They tend to make more money as result of being better educated, and they pay a much higher percentage of the taxes.
2. They are also more likely to attend church and tithe at church. This money in turns goes to the poor and needy.
3. Outside of church they are also more likely to give to charitable causes.
I am offended that you think Mitt Romney is a fool !
Quote: WizardHow about the parts about tithing?
Isn't that supposed to be voluntary? Or at any rate not a matter for the state to deal with?
Let's rephrase, which part says "take your neighbor's money and labor by force and spread it among the needy?"
Quote: NareedIsn't that supposed to be voluntary? Or at any rate not a matter for the state to deal with?
Let's rephrase, which part says "take your neighbor's money and labor by force and spread it among the needy?"
By force sounds good! but how about under the threat of imprisonment.
Quote: rainmanBy force sounds good! but how about under the threat of imprisonment.
That's by force.
Quote: NareedThat's by force.
Yes but imprisonment just sounds scarier. :)
Interesting. Into which of those two categories does a Fireman fall?Quote: MauiSunsetThere are only 2 kinds of citizens:
1) Makers
2) Takers
Quote: MauiSensetMakers are the achievers that build a society and the Takers are the opposite and destroy a society
Quote: buzzpaff" Render unto Caesar that which is his " Caesar's heir is your Uncle Sam !
Wasn't this quote supposed to be about the tax collectors not shaking people down for something extra for themselves? I don't believe it was a call to higher taxes.
Quote: Keyser
If you have a strong background in mathematics, then you would almost have to agree that the probability of there being a God is far more likely than the probability of there not being a god.
-Keyser
What could possibly make you believe this?
Quote: WizardI've never really understood why Christianity seems drawn to the Republican side. Need examples? I could name lots, but to name just a few: Rick Santorum, Michelle Bachman, Ann Coulter, Rick Perry.
It seems to me the philosophy of the Republican party, in a nutshell, is "Don't take a slice of my pie." Isn't the message of Christianity to give a piece of your pie to someone who is hungry?
I am neither Christian nor Conservative, though I was both a few years ago. Christianity teaches that theft is wrong. The government uses armed men to threaten us if we do not hand over the fruits of our labor. Many people regard this as theft.
Quote: WizardThen why are Republicans always quicker to cut school funding and student loans? In general, look at which states tend to have the best schools and they tend to be blue states. Yes, I know there are exceptions, you don't need to list some. Some even seem to have a disdain for higher education, as evidenced by Santorum's "what a snob" remark.
Mainly it is because most public school systems are bloated with administrators and othe non-teaching positions. The current GOP position is to get away from municipalities running schools and go to a voucher system. IMHO this would be a great way to go as parents could choose a local school or send the kiddies to a school specializing in vo-tech; arts; or strong advanced math to name a few ideas. As it is now you have to be lucky to have the "great" math teacher or well-equiped auto-shop in your district.
As to the "best school in blue states" it depends on the area in the states. Here in PA, the shcools in the "blue areas" are usually the worst and in the "red areas" the best. Same with when I was in NY. In NYC some schools are barely holding pens for bad kids. Met a teacher from one. The kids got a faux-diploma and the day was one step above babysitting. Why are we paying $10K for that?
Santorum was correct about higher education. When only just over 50% of students who start college finish it, there is a problem. If a student enters college and has a "general studies" major they probably would be better served doing something else until they decide what they want to do. All he did was speak the truth, same as CHeney did when he said conservation was noble but to meet our energy needs we need more supply. The American public can't handle the truth.
Quote: s2dbakerInteresting. Into which of those two categories does a Fireman fall?
The definition of a Maker is very simple - they pay a lot of taxes and mainly Federal Income Taxes.
So just check your pay-stub and if you pay Federal Income Tax you are a Maker, if not you are a Taker.
Takers are kids as an example - we don't expect them to work at a young age and thus they are Takers. But the goal is to have as many citizens paying taxes of all kinds - they become Makers of a society.
Right now about 50% of the folks who should pay Federal Income Taxes pay zero, $0.00 in Federal Income Taxes. These 50% are Takers, they don't contribute, at a national level, to supporting America (only talking about America here). This is a HUGE problem, one that America has never had before in it's 200+ year history - these folks get to vote and vote in politicians who demand more money from the other 50% that pay taxes.
Taxing income is a stupid way to raise revenues to run a country - we are witnessing this stupidity right now in America - "Tax the rich". Taxing spending is the way to go, but it's too late for America to adopt that model now.
It all boils down to how a country want's to motivate the citizens to build the country:
1) Tax an activity and you get less of that activity
2) Subsidize an activity and you get more of that activity
Honestly, all our problems can be boiled down into simple either-or decisions that open the truth to those involved.
Sadly, that's not what politicians do - they only care about getting reelected and nothing about the consequences.....
Quote: bigfoot66I don't know of anyone who is opposed to education per say, the question is about the best and most efficent ways to get it done. Many people feel that government is a terrible way to accomplish our goals
The Federal and State US governments are horrible at running education - America is now at the 3rd world level in K-12 education - China is #1.
This all catches up with a country at some point - we now have too many stupid US citizens to compete with smart citizens of other countries....
Quote: MauiSunsetThe Federal and State US governments are horrible at running education - America is now at the 3rd world level in K-12 education - China is #1.
Isn't the state heavily involved in Chinese education?
Quote: rxwineIsn't the state heavily involved in Chinese education?
But they do not allow the NEA.
Quote: rxwineIsn't the state heavily involved in Chinese education?
Sure, they are Communists.
If that bunch of Communists can do it how come a bunch of American Socialists are failing so bad?
One would think that American Socialists would be embarrassed by their Comrades in China.
Sadly they are too stupid to read the charts anymore, let alone figure out a solution.......
In China, they don't get Spring Break and Fall Break, and Crismas Break, and MLK day break, and Thanksgiving, and "Teacher Development days", and three months summer break ...
In China kids go to school 223 days a year, vs. about 180 in US.
In the US, a typical school day starts about 8:30 and runs till around 2 pm. Compare to 7:30 to 5 in China.
A regular American kid gets about 1000 hours of schooling per year, while his Chinese counterpart gets more than 2100.
And this says nothing about the quality of schooling they get, but even mere quantitative difference is impressive. And by "quality", I don't necessarily mean quality of instruction. Just what they actually do while they are in school. They don't spend their days coloring silly pictures and singing songs ... If you spend 2000 hours a year doing non-stop basic math ... guess what ... you are going to be good at it.
Quote: weaselmanChina is #1 not because of who runs the education but for an embarrassingly simple reason - we, and our kids are way too lazy compared to them and theirs.
In China, they don't get Spring Break and Fall Break, and Crismas Break, and MLK day off, and Thanksgiving, and "Teacher Development days", and three months summer break ...
In China kids go to school 223 days a year, vs. about 180 in US.
But that's not all. In the US, a typical school day starts about 8:30 and runs till around 2 pm. Compare to 7:30 to 5 in China. About TWICE as long.
A regular American kid gets about 1000 hours of schooling per year, while his Chinese counterpart gets more than 2100.
If you are still wondering why they get better results, look at the amount of homework they do as well. Or at the number of summer classes they take during their "vacation".
Can you imagine a NEA union teacher wanting to work those hours?????
Quote: MauiSunsetCan you imagine a NEA union teacher wanting to work those hours?????
What hours? Everybody works 8 hours a day, even union members, it is nothing new. Or hire two teachers. Or a teacher and an assistant.
It has nothing to do with unions. Do you think private schools have longer days or more school days in a year? Think again. They have less usually. Or how many parents do you know who are looking to subscribe their kids to classes during summer break? That's just crazy! A kid got to have fun, right?
It is not the problem of financing, it's just how our culture is. We don't like working too much, and by extension, don't want our kids to work too much either.
Why bother comparing American schools to Chinese? Just compare Chinese American students to others, even in the same school. You'll get about the same (relative) result. In this case, the difference has obviously nothing to do with the school. It's the parents, their culture and dedication, that makes the difference.
Quote: weaselmanWhat hours? Everybody works 8 hours a day, even union members, it is nothing new. Or hire two teachers. Or a teacher and an assistant.
It has nothing to do with unions. Do you think private schools have longer days or more school days in a year? Think again. They have less usually.
It is not the problem of financing, it's just how our culture is. We don't like working too much, and by extension, don't want our kids to work too much either.
I agree, Americans have become fat, dumb, and lazy - our entire country.
Why should a kid work that hard in school? They know that something is horribly wrong with America, they know that they don't even have to be able to read their high school diploma in order to graduate. College will be a little tougher but the high paying jobs have fled America to places where kids hustle and don't complain, so why try that hard? America has the highest corporate tax rate of any country on earth - that alone should sound the alarm bells in the citizens but the citizens are too busy pigging out at Micky Dees.
Sadly America has gone beyond that slippery slope of Socialism and I don't see how we will recover - at least in the time I'll still be around.
I doubt America has learned any lessons from this, it's like a company going bankrupt and the top management knows there are problems but they have golden retirement packages and will jump ship just before the end.
I wish I could say replacing a leader with another leader would solve this problem - the problem is staring us in the face every morning when we look in the mirror (no, it's not your spouse)....
I am always amazed when I find a smart gambler, who is religious, and knows that the Roulette wheel is a physical random number generator - that the next number spun has nothing to do with all the numbers that wheel spit out in the last spin, 10 spins ago, 100 spins ago, or 100,000 spins ago. I'm proud they are that smart.
Gamblers who don't know of the Gamblers' Fallacy believe that if 14 Reds are on the marquee then believe Black is overdue and bet on Black. I ask them who keeps track of the colors and knows that Black must now show up - they don't know but believe something keeps track of the imbalances.
Then I talk to religious gamblers and ask the same question about whether they will enter Heaven or Hell - they don't know who keeps track of the score but are sure someone keeps track of the imbalances.
This sounds like the Saints' Fallacy to me............
didnt the federal government ballon under his administration? added a cabinet position and more bureaucracy.
same with bush2.
i guess its not all bazza's fault
