Poll

10 votes (27.02%)
1 vote (2.7%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
No votes (0%)
8 votes (21.62%)
1 vote (2.7%)
2 votes (5.4%)
23 votes (62.16%)
2 votes (5.4%)

37 members have voted

WongBo
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March 20th, 2012 at 9:54:12 PM permalink
I did not include Borgata nor Revel in this list, though I suppose anything is possible....
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
pacomartin
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March 20th, 2012 at 10:41:59 PM permalink
None of them are doing very well. Here is the change in % from this February 2012 to February 2011.
Ceasars Inc
Bally's AC (10.4%)
Caesars (7.7%)
Harrah's 4.4%
Showboat (5.0%)

Golden Nugget N/A - changed management
Trump Marina N/A - changed management
Borgata 7.2%

ACH (Atlantic Club) (28.6%)
Tropicana (27.4%)
Trump Plaza (22.1%)
Trump Taj Mahal (9.1%)
Resorts (10.4%)

Since the Trump Plaza has been actively on the market for over a year, I would have to go with them.
FleaStiff
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March 21st, 2012 at 2:38:05 AM permalink
Tropicana has legal, public relations and economic trouble... so I guess its weakest. Bankers don't lend if they think the regulators are getting ready to pounce but then again the regulators already have shoved their weight around and those fears may be over with?
Are the percentage figures NEGATIVE?... ie, decreases in revenues since you phrased the time as from 2012 to 2011.

I guess it will be whoever is least likely to ever turn around in time. Get rid of the weakest for whatever you can get and hang on the rest is the Evil Empire's likely goal.
s2dbaker
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March 21st, 2012 at 4:03:14 AM permalink
Since the owner of Resorts just keeled over, I'm going to go with Resorts.
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
Boz
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March 21st, 2012 at 5:43:23 AM permalink
Atlantic Club (new name for the ACH) has promised to keep the place open until October. If that and a 28% drop are not enough to make it the odds on favorite, how about a bad location and a new place to market to locals?

Also looking deeper at these numbes and you will see that the weather was much better this year than 2011 with no snow at all.
DJTeddyBear
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March 21st, 2012 at 6:04:31 AM permalink
Arguments can be made for every property.


Of the 4 Caesars properties, each has good reason for not being an obvious choice for closing:

Caesars is the namesake.
Bally's is connected to Caesars.
Harrah's is the most luxurious.
ShowBoat is the dumpiest, except it's right next door to Revel, and will get the immediate overflow and smokers looking to gamble.


Of the Trump properties:

Taj Mahal was the bench-mark for comparisons before Borgata opened.
Plaza is the first casino seen when arriving via the AC Expressway.


Of the 6 others:

Borgata. For a couple more weeks, it retains the title of being the bench-mark for comparison for the other casinos. It will retain that title for Revel.
Golden Nugget is finishing up the transition from being Trump Marina. Still too early to tell.
Resorts. Frankly, I'm surprised it's lasted this long.
Tropicana. No opinion.
ACH (Or whatever they're calling it) is repositioning themselves as a locals casino. It remains to be seen how the locals react.
Revel. Well, anything's possible.


That said, I voted ACH and Resorts.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
Mosca
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March 21st, 2012 at 6:40:59 AM permalink
This is based on Mrs and my perception of the casinos, not on the numbers.

I voted Trump Plaza. Frankly, the place feels creepy. Next would be Tropicana, the only place where I remember the names of the dealers I DON'T like.

An argument could be made for ACH, simply because until recently we didn't even know there was a casino in that place.

Resorts, we used to like that place. Haven't been there in years, the rooms were getting pretty run down. I wonder if their overtly courting a more adventurous and less staid clientele will help them? I hope so, it only makes sense for a business dedicated to fun to be un-uptight about who's having it.

We were at Showboat in November, and we had a good time (but yes, it was smoky, and dumpy, and the layout is confusing). But folks do like it, like an old slipper.

We thought Harrah's was tight, like Vegas tight. AC slots tend to be small hit/long play, Harrah's seemed like big hit/short play. But maybe we weren't there long enough. But like DJ said, it's not going anywhere. The place is packed on weekends.

Borgata is where we like to play, and we love the dining. We've always felt like we've received good value for our entertainment dollar. Borgata is sticking around.

Out: Trump, Trop, ACH, Resorts, in that order.
A falling knife has no handle.
Tiltpoul
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March 21st, 2012 at 6:52:41 AM permalink
Good analysis DJ...

If it comes down to casinos CLOSING, then my votes go to Atlantic Club, Resorts and Trump Plaza. Resorts is already on its last legs, and Revel will go after what little niche they've carved out with having nightclubs and stuff. Trump Plaza is also hurting and they would be happy to sell it to the first offer. Atlantic Club is most likely going to have to close soon.

If it's about changing management, Showboat is most likely. Caesars and Bally's are connected at the hips and too tough to sell one or the other (and they aren't selling Caesars). Harrah's is getting it right for now, but Caesars needs to unload some properties. Showboat is most likely.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
boymimbo
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March 21st, 2012 at 8:05:38 AM permalink
The last period of overall revenue growth (year over year) was the 4th quarter of 2006.

From Q3 2006 to Q3 2011, Revenue at ACH has dropped 53.5%, Nugget 47.6%, Resorts 47.2%, Plaza 47.0%, Ballys 42.9%, Tropicana 41%.

Since 2008 Q4 (3 years), ACH has a operating loss of 58.1 million, Resorts 41.0 million, and Golden Nugget 7.1 million.

For the five months ending February 2012, however, Resorts is showing growth.

So, my bet is that two of ACH, Resorts, and the Plaza closes. The Nugget will struggle. Tropicana will be iffy. Showboat should stay afloat, barely.

Borgata (extremely healthy), Caesars, Harrahs, Ballys, and Taj Majal will be fine. Caesars Entertainment will manage to pay the interest on their debts or restructure.

Revel will do quite well until New York opens table games in and around NYC. Once New York state opens their casinos around 2015, that should be the end of the line for Showboat, Tropicana, Nugget, and at least one of the Caesar properties.
----- You want the truth! You can't handle the truth!
hook3670
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March 21st, 2012 at 8:25:41 AM permalink
I thin ACH is on its last legs. The four Caesars properties are not going anywhere, I don't think. They have stated they are trying to expand nationally since they foolishly got shut out of Asia. Resorts kind of has a niche right now, I do not know for how long though.
FatGeezus
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March 21st, 2012 at 8:45:54 AM permalink
I don't think that any of them will close.

The Trump properties were close to bankruptcy and they survived.

Even the ACH managed to remain open during their financial problems.

I think that all the CZR properties are going to take a bigger loss when the Revel opens. I have read on other boards that many CZR players plan on moving their play to the Revel. CZRs has cut back their comps and rewards and many card holders are upset with this. They weren't too happy when CZRs changed their policy and started charging $10 in reward credits to enter the Diamond lounges. I will be joining them as I move my play to the Revel.

Also being a non-smoker, the Revel is SMOKE FREE!!!
Tiltpoul
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March 21st, 2012 at 1:19:31 PM permalink
Quote: FatGeezus

I think that all the CZR properties are going to take a bigger loss when the Revel opens. I have read on other boards that many CZR players plan on moving their play to the Revel. CZRs has cut back their comps and rewards and many card holders are upset with this. They weren't too happy when CZRs changed their policy and started charging $10 in reward credits to enter the Diamond lounges. I will be joining them as I move my play to the Revel.



I agree with you that Caesars really screwed over some Diamond players when they changed their Diamond Lounge policy. I imagine that AC only players could jump ship...

However, your assertion that Caesars is going to hurt is completely wrong, IMO. First, Revel's players club initially isn't focused on loyalty.. it's about the moment and nightclubs. Total Rewards players are ALL about loyalty. In fact, a few plays where they aren't getting recognition and those customers will be back to the smoky congested Showboat in second flat. Second, Revel is all about sexy and image. TR players are gamblers, and many do not fall into the sexy/glam category (myself included). This is not going to attract these people there.

ACH only remained open because there were people who believed in it. It will be tough to believe in that property much longer.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
Boz
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March 21st, 2012 at 2:09:12 PM permalink
Agree 100% that few CZR players will move their play over to Revel. While there are still a few AC only players, many I know like to take vacations in Tahoe, Vegas, New Orleans or the other places they can go and stay for free. Also most of them are Diamond or above. They are used to being treated special and even if they have to use $10 in comps to visit the Diamond Lounge, there is a Diamond Lounge. Revel has no plans for a players lounge or even tiers in their cards. CZR players like to move to the front of the line, the like the easy free rooms and LFB or RFB they get where they can eat and drink for free and the casino picks it up. Revel offers none of this. I really cannot wait to see how empty Revel is on a Monday night in September when the summer crowd is gone and they have no reason for gamblers to show up at their property. The high end restaurants will be closing faster than Eva Longoria lost her investment in her Vegas restaurant.
toastcmu
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March 21st, 2012 at 3:22:56 PM permalink
I voted for the Plaza - while ACH is hemmoraging money, to me it seems like once they sold the Marina, the Trump property decided to focus solely on the Taj and wait for another buyer - and wait ...... At least ACH is actively trying to manage the property towards success.

It didn't help when they took out their FP JoB machines either - I used to like them (as long as I could put up with the smoke in that area).

-B
DJTeddyBear
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March 21st, 2012 at 4:07:49 PM permalink
Now that I think about it, the short essay I wrote on the prior page was more about the reason why it's hard to pick a casino to close, not why they are hard to sell.

In my opinion, the two that are hurting the most, but would be the most attractive to a buyer, would be for the same reasons that they aren't closing: Trump Plaza for it's central location and first casino seen when arriving via AC Expressway, and the ShowBoat for it's location next to Revel and the overflow and smoking gamblers it will likely get.
I invented a few casino games. Info: http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ ————————————————————————————————————— Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
WongBo
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March 21st, 2012 at 8:06:58 PM permalink
Interesting article about Borgata's debt and the evolving situation in AC....

CASINO GLUT DEPRESSES BORGATA BONDS
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
pacomartin
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March 21st, 2012 at 8:57:57 PM permalink
Quote: toastcmu

I voted for the Plaza - while ACH is hemmoraging money, to me it seems like once they sold the Marina, the Trump property decided to focus solely on the Taj and wait for another buyer - and wait ...... At least ACH is actively trying to manage the property towards success.



Trump Plaza may be sold or may be expanded, company CEO says May 24, 2011

Key to the company’s future is Trump Plaza, which could be sold to help pay down debt. Griffin said Trump Entertainment will also consider expanding the aging casino by itself or with the help of a joint venture partner. - Trump’s CEO Bob Griffin


The first of the Pennsylvania mini casinos (600 slots & 50 table games) to open at the Valley Forge Conference Center opens on 31 March 2012.



I think that NJ is going to copy this concept (complete with 55% tax on slot machines). They may even allow yearly membership dues like the one in PA. But the existing companies operating in AC are going to have to get some preferential treatment to acquire the licenses, in order for it to be fair.
MrV
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March 21st, 2012 at 10:36:41 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

Since the owner of Resorts just keeled over, I'm going to go with Resorts.



Whoa, I didn't realize Dennis Gomes had returned to NJ and seized control of the casino which he recommended not be given a permanent license almost 35 years ago.

Hello, irony.

Still have to laugh about his short little escapade in the Garden State back when Resorts International first came slithering in to town.

As part of the investigation of Resorts, he and his investigative team went down to the Bahamas, without tipping off Byrne or Perskie or Martinez back in NJ, and raided Resorts' casino there, finding all sorts of interesting documentation.

In doing so, he "allegedly" discovered proof that Resorts, the mob, and the NJ pols were all in cahoots; when he told his superiors they squashed him like a bug: he soon returned to Las Vegas with his tail between his legs.

Obviously he learned the truth of the old adage: "If you can't beat 'em, join 'em."

RIP



source ...
"What, me worry?"
Tiltpoul
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March 22nd, 2012 at 5:13:24 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

Whoa, I didn't realize Dennis Gomes had returned to NJ and seized control of the casino which he recommended not be given a permanent license almost 35 years ago...

RIP



By the way, Resorts latest mailing was a little bit delayed this month, but it featured a very nice letter from Gomes' son, thanking all the players for being part of "the family." It's obviously difficult in a marketing piece to try to address a depressing elephant in the room, but if I get around to it, I'll post the letter. It was pretty well-written, thoughtful and considerate.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
SanchoPanza
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March 22nd, 2012 at 6:47:46 AM permalink
Quote: MrV

He "allegedly" discovered proof that Resorts, the mob, and the NJ pols were all in cahoots


Crosby and his lovely Mary Carter Paints actually fronted for a number of C.I.A. operations.
MrV
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March 22nd, 2012 at 8:48:09 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Crosby and his lovely Mary Carter Paints actually fronted for a number of C.I.A. operations.



Reportedly not the first time a prominent mob figure worked with the spooks.

It amazes me (probably shouldn't: people are SO predictable) how little attention has been devoted to exposing the link between the mafia and gambling in recent times.

It didn't end in Las Vegas when Hughes came to town, and gambling came to NJ primarily BECAUSE of the mob.

The shell game continues ... and as always, the key is sleight of hand.
"What, me worry?"
SanchoPanza
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March 26th, 2012 at 7:56:32 AM permalink
Quote: Boz

Agree 100% that few CZR players will move their play over to Revel. While there are still a few AC only players, many I know like to take vacations in Tahoe, Vegas, New Orleans or the other places they can go and stay for free. Also most of them are Diamond or above. They are used to being treated special and even if they have to use $10 in comps to visit the Diamond Lounge, there is a Diamond Lounge.


CZR has scored quite a victory against the gluttony of Atlantic City officials, but it is a bad sign:
"Posted: Sunday, March 25, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 2:02 pm, Sun Mar 25, 2012.
By EMILY PREVITI Staff Writer |
ATLANTIC CITY — Recent tax-appeal settlements with Caesars Entertainment Corp. have cut property values for three casinos by 35 percent — a development that could affect public finances if a similar degree of reduction results from pending appeals filed by seven other gambling halls.

“It’s a major concern to the city’s administration and to everybody. It’s 11 (casino) properties, and they make up 38 (percent) or 39 percent of the (city’s) ratable base, and 25 percent of the county’s (ratable base). So having these drops doesn’t just affect the city, it affects the county as well,” city finance director Michael Stinson said Friday.

The city has agreed to give back $26.96 million to Caesars for taxes paid from 2009 to 2011 on Bally’s Atlantic City — one of four local casinos the company operates — because those tax bills were based on the property’s value being $1.5 billion, which tax court negotiations have since reduced to $700 million, he said." acpress
Tiltpoul
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March 26th, 2012 at 9:09:40 AM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

CZR has scored quite a victory against the gluttony of Atlantic City officials, but it is a bad sign:
"Posted: Sunday, March 25, 2012 12:00 am | Updated: 2:02 pm, Sun Mar 25, 2012.
By EMILY PREVITI Staff Writer |
ATLANTIC CITY — Recent tax-appeal settlements with Caesars Entertainment Corp. have cut property values for three casinos by 35 percent — a development that could affect public finances if a similar degree of reduction results from pending appeals filed by seven other gambling halls.

“It’s a major concern to the city’s administration and to everybody. It’s 11 (casino) properties, and they make up 38 (percent) or 39 percent of the (city’s) ratable base, and 25 percent of the county’s (ratable base). So having these drops doesn’t just affect the city, it affects the county as well,” city finance director Michael Stinson said Friday.

The city has agreed to give back $26.96 million to Caesars for taxes paid from 2009 to 2011 on Bally’s Atlantic City — one of four local casinos the company operates — because those tax bills were based on the property’s value being $1.5 billion, which tax court negotiations have since reduced to $700 million, he said." acpress



This is an interesting article, and shows the great lengths casinos will go to avoid paying taxes. Unfortunately, this will have negative repercussions. When the roads in Atlantic City get nasty, who will be there (or expected) to clear them? Who will hire the police to protect casino patrons from being molested on the Boardwalk?

We'll see what comes of this. Obviously, a devaluation of property value also could devalue the brand and stock for the company...
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
WongBo
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March 31st, 2012 at 12:50:05 AM permalink
Made my weekly trip to AC on Wednesday and ended up late night playing craps and tiles at Atlantic Club.
In the early morning they brought in jack hammers and started ripping up rows of slots and installing some nice new carpeting.
so, it looks like Colony Capital is putting up some money to make a go of things, at least for the upcoming summer season.
I have to say that in spite of the permanently low table minimums the dealers are pretty friendly for the most part.
Of course, it being AC they aren't exactly overdoing it.
Lowest minimums in the city all day every day:
$3 craps, $5 blackjack, $5 roulette, $10 pai gow, $10 pai gow poker, $15 mini bac
They are rebranding as a locals place and it did feel that way, but i'm no snob,
and i love playing all night for a third of the usual...
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
WongBo
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April 5th, 2012 at 12:05:25 AM permalink
PROFIT/LOSS STATEMENTS FOR 2011:

Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa $162.5 million
Harrah's Resort Atlantic City $112.3 million
Caesars Atlantic City $87.3 million;
Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort $55.3 million
Bally's Atlantic City $48.7 million
Showboat Casino Hotel $48.4 million
Tropicana Casino and Resort $17.6 million
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $2.6 million
The Golden Nugget (-$6 million)
Resorts Casino Hotel (-$13.8 million)
The Atlantic Club (-$20.2 million)
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
Boz
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April 5th, 2012 at 4:08:05 AM permalink
Quote: WongBo

PROFIT/LOSS STATEMENTS FOR 2011:

Borgata Hotel Casino & Spa $162.5 million
Harrah's Resort Atlantic City $112.3 million
Caesars Atlantic City $87.3 million;
Trump Taj Mahal Casino Resort $55.3 million
Bally's Atlantic City $48.7 million
Showboat Casino Hotel $48.4 million
Tropicana Casino and Resort $17.6 million
Trump Plaza Hotel and Casino $2.6 million
The Golden Nugget (-$6 million)
Resorts Casino Hotel (-$13.8 million)
The Atlantic Club (-$20.2 million)



With all the debt the Atlantic Club had forgiven, and to still lose this much, the writing is on the wall.
FleaStiff
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April 5th, 2012 at 4:15:53 AM permalink
A few things about that list...

Borgata is always going to be at the top.
Tropicana and maybe some other joint will blame it on that one winner at BlackJack but there will be other reasons.

Darn few places can make so many millions and keep uttering Debt Service for long.
buzzpaff
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April 5th, 2012 at 8:15:02 AM permalink
Gambling and the mob in bed together in AC? Really ??

Rick: How can you close me up? On what grounds?
Captain Renault: I'm shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here!
[a croupier hands Renault a pile of money]
Croupier: Your winnings, sir.
Captain Renault: [sotto voce] Oh, thank you very much.
[aloud]
Captain Renault: Everybody out at once!
WongBo
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September 21st, 2012 at 6:02:56 AM permalink
Reviving this thread, now that summer is over.
I have to say Trump Plaza is getting dangerously deep in the red ink.
Great location but haven't been able to find a buyer.
They have scaled back the gaming, and permanently closed their popular beach bar.
This last summer, the tenth year of the beach bar, was the last.
They are claiming they won't be able to compete with resorts/margaritaville and revel,
Both of which are going to be non-union.
Any thoughts?
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
vendman1
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September 21st, 2012 at 6:37:45 AM permalink
Yeah it certainly seems from both the financial data, and the general atmosphere about the place that the Plaza is doomed. As WongBo says they have a great location, but can't seem to make it work. Seems like they are in big trouble, if they don't get a buyer soon hard to see how they could stay in business.
pacomartin
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September 21st, 2012 at 6:42:56 AM permalink
Quote: WongBo

I have to say Trump Plaza is getting dangerously deep in the red ink.
Great location but haven't been able to find a buyer. Any thoughts?



Trump Plaza showed a shockingly high Gross Operating Profit of $13m for the 2nd quarter of 2012. Revenue is still plummeting, but they won their appeal over real estate taxes.

During June 2012, Plaza Associates, Taj Associates and Marina Associates settled with the City of Atlantic City (the “City”) with respect to their challenges to the real estate tax assessments for each of their casino properties for the tax years 2008 through 2012. Under the settlement terms, the City agreed to provide Taj Associates with a credit for previously paid real estate taxes in the total amount of $54M.

Any thoughts? Practically no one thought that this city could take this devastating loss in revenue without closing a casino.
FleaStiff
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September 21st, 2012 at 7:56:55 AM permalink
This thread is entitled "... Close/Change Management"...
I question whether "Change Management" really means much.
A different firm, a new broom, etc. ... but in reality just how much of a change in management will ever mean anything new for an Atlantic City casino?

Demographics in the area won't change.
Crack houses and dangerous parking won't change.
Transit systems won't change.
The time it takes to get to Pennsylvania instead of New Jersey won't change.

Trump? Does he own the casino or did he merely lease his name to it? He picked it up real cheap supposedly and then sold it at what he felt was an unsustainbly high price. There have been name changes and corporate dances since, but in reality Holiday Inns built the Marina and operated it through their Harrah's personna. All the corporate shell game stuff later of trading names and stock and debt really means very little. Investing millions to build a Taj Mahal in Jersey was strange. Corporate entity shuffling and finance swaps don't really change a casino.
Tiltpoul
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September 21st, 2012 at 11:25:50 AM permalink
Quote: pacomartin

Trump Plaza showed a shockingly high Gross Operating Profit of $13m for the 2nd quarter of 2012. Revenue is still plummeting, but they won their appeal over real estate taxes.

During June 2012, Plaza Associates, Taj Associates and Marina Associates settled with the City of Atlantic City (the “City”) with respect to their challenges to the real estate tax assessments for each of their casino properties for the tax years 2008 through 2012. Under the settlement terms, the City agreed to provide Taj Associates with a credit for previously paid real estate taxes in the total amount of $54M.

Any thoughts? Practically no one thought that this city could take this devastating loss in revenue without closing a casino.



Running a profitable business in Q2 isn't impossible for Atlantic City. The problem is running a profitable business when the tourists aren't flocking to the town for other reasons (like a beach). It was funny to re-read this thread from March. I argued ACH/Atlantic Club would be on its last legs, yet their strategy worked brilliantly and they are somehow still in the game. Now Trump Plaza with arguably the second best location (next to Bally's) is easily on the chopping block.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
1BB
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September 21st, 2012 at 11:50:39 AM permalink
Quote: WongBo

Reviving this thread, now that summer is over.
I have to say Trump Plaza is getting dangerously deep in the red ink.
Great location but haven't been able to find a buyer.
They have scaled back the gaming, and permanently closed their popular beach bar.
This last summer, the tenth year of the beach bar, was the last.
They are claiming they won't be able to compete with resorts/margaritaville and revel,
Both of which are going to be non-union.
Any thoughts?



Loosen up the games? Cater to locals?
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
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September 21st, 2012 at 7:37:08 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Holiday Inns built the Marina and operated it through their Harrah's personna.


I think you meant the Plaza, which was originally called Trump Plaza at Harrah's until he elbowed them out of the picture. The Marina was built by Hilton, which never qualified for a license. The Donald's stake in the ventures was whittled down through three bankruptcies to 10 percent and some personal fees.
WongBo
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September 21st, 2012 at 7:48:12 PM permalink
The casino formerly known as Trump Marina is now Golden Nugget...
In a bet, there is a fool and a thief. - Proverb.
Gambit55
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September 22nd, 2012 at 7:15:45 AM permalink
As long as Trump Plaza keeps $1 Blackjack and 50 cent Roulette, they'll keep declining and go under soon.

I intentionally stayed away from there for 8 months to avoid the dopey $1 BJ players who made their way over to the $10 & $15 tables.
1BB
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September 22nd, 2012 at 2:30:39 PM permalink
Quote: Gambit55

As long as Trump Plaza keeps $1 Blackjack and 50 cent Roulette, they'll keep declining and go under soon.

I intentionally stayed away from there for 8 months to avoid the dopey $1 BJ players who made their way over to the $10 & $15 tables.



Yeah, the 25 cent per hand ante is okay but those dopey players gotta go.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
buzzpaff
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September 22nd, 2012 at 2:55:07 PM permalink
$25 player playing 1% HE cause he is stupid, or $1 player having a fun time. a Quarter for the house each way.
I do not have a problem with that.
If they don't tell you how to gamble, just get about your life.
1BB
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September 22nd, 2012 at 3:10:50 PM permalink
Quote: buzzpaff

$25 player playing 1% HE cause he is stupid, or $1 player having a fun time. a Quarter for the house each way.
I do not have a problem with that.
If they don't tell you how to gamble, just get about your life.



I get the fun part for the casual player but playing an ante game is just throwing money away. If you play 100 hands per hour you're renting the chair for a whopping $25 per hour. That money goes straight to the tray before the hand is dealt.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
buzzpaff
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September 22nd, 2012 at 3:43:24 PM permalink
" If you play 100 hands per hour you're renting the chair for a whopping $25 per hour."

And the $25 player, 1 % HE, whopping $25 an hour. I found the chairs at both tables to be equally cushioned !
1BB
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September 23rd, 2012 at 4:00:50 AM permalink
Okay but I'm assuming our friend Gambit55 plays perfect basic strategy which means he can play that $25 game against a house edge of .42%. His hourly loss is $10.50 per hour. That's less than half a unit and unlike the ante every dollar on the felt has the potential to win.

Not so at the $1.00 ante table. With a house edge at .66% the perfect basic strategy player will lose 66 cents per hour PLUS the $25 rent. The player is losing 26 units per hour and more than twice the money of our green chipper.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Tiltpoul
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September 23rd, 2012 at 6:54:49 AM permalink
Quote: 1BB

Not so at the $1.00 ante table. With a house edge at .66% the perfect basic strategy player will lose 66 cents per hour PLUS the $25 rent. The player is losing 26 units per hour and more than twice the money of our green chipper.



So the customer who is EXPECTED to lose $10.50 an hour at the much better $25 table is better off than the person who is GUARANTEED to lose $25 in the same hour...

Now let's consider a budget of $125. On the $25 table, all it takes is a streak of 5 bad hands to wipe away the bankroll completely. Losing 5 hands in a row on BJ is a relatively common occurrence; hell, I've lost more than 12 in a row. At the $1 table, the player would only be down roughly 6% of the bankroll and can continue playing...

I understand what you are saying, 1BB. The $1 table is a bad bet, but there are customers who want to bring a small amount of money and feel like they are getting a good amount of play. Even a $5 table can drain a small bankroll fast, and the $1 table, while worse, makes the money last longer. There is no argument there.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
1BB
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September 23rd, 2012 at 9:08:56 AM permalink
Quote: Tiltpoul

So the customer who is EXPECTED to lose $10.50 an hour at the much better $25 table is better off than the person who is GUARANTEED to lose $25 in the same hour...

Now let's consider a budget of $125. On the $25 table, all it takes is a streak of 5 bad hands to wipe away the bankroll completely. Losing 5 hands in a row on BJ is a relatively common occurrence; hell, I've lost more than 12 in a row. At the $1 table, the player would only be down roughly 6% of the bankroll and can continue playing...

I understand what you are saying, 1BB. The $1 table is a bad bet, but there are customers who want to bring a small amount of money and feel like they are getting a good amount of play. Even a $5 table can drain a small bankroll fast, and the $1 table, while worse, makes the money last longer. There is no argument there.



It's up to the player to come to the table with the proper bankroll but sure if to one wants socialize and wants their money to last longer they should go ahead and do what makes them happy while disregarding the end results. It's entertainment right? Go to an ante table and ask anyone how much it is costing them. They will have no idea. I'm just trying to help people make informed decisions.

My wife and her girlfriends would play the CSMs at Mohegan Sun before they were removed even though they were H17 because they were always $5 minimums. I had no problem with that but I made darn sure they were informed.
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
Gambit55
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September 23rd, 2012 at 7:23:18 PM permalink
One thing that has been left out for $1 tables is you can avoid the 25 cent hand fee by playing 6-10 dollars.

However, the $10 maximum does make for limited profit spread, but you pretty much expected that by attempting to endure a $1 BJ table!
1BB
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September 24th, 2012 at 1:17:41 PM permalink
Bring a $300 bankroll, flat bet $6 and you could last all day maybe even a weekend. Try that with a $1 bet and the ante and see how long the money will last.

I'd like to wish everyone a very happy National Punctuation Day!!!!!!!!!??????:::";;;;:,,,,!!!!!!!!
Many people, especially ignorant people, want to punish you for speaking the truth. - Mahatma Ghandi
SanchoPanza
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September 24th, 2012 at 5:48:03 PM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

Since the owner of Resorts just keeled over, I'm going to go with Resorts.


Dennis Gomes had a big real estate mogul behind him, Morris Bailey.
s2dbaker
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September 24th, 2012 at 6:02:04 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Dennis Gomes had a big real estate mogul behind him, Morris Bailey.

Now that Resorts has brought in the Mohegans, I think they're safe for now. I'm going to be there on October 5th (but staying at Bally's)
Someday, joor goin' to see the name of Googie Gomez in lights and joor goin' to say to joorself, "Was that her?" and then joor goin' to answer to joorself, "That was her!" But you know somethin' mister? I was always her yuss nobody knows it! - Googie Gomez
SanchoPanza
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September 25th, 2012 at 5:40:38 AM permalink
Quote: s2dbaker

I'm going to be there on October 5th


So will I. Lately they've been running Mr. $50's table longer and longer, although one pit boss told me that he was trying to go to just $25, at least until the codger complained. It gets a little crowded when they don't operate the third table.
pacomartin
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November 4th, 2012 at 1:28:12 AM permalink
September Table Games Revenue
$77,578,729 - Atlantic City
$59,301,910 - Pennsylvania

In addition Sands PA came within 1/2% of AC Ceasars for table games. Only Ceasars and Borgata make more money in table games now.

With the AC casinos being closed for Sandy, October will certainly be the first month that PA beats NJ in table game revenue. It will probably take another year before it happens without a storm (assuming nothing stops the NJ collapse).
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