Resorts World VIP Opening June 24, 2021

June 24, 2021: The pre party was from 7pm to 11pm, at which point the general public was allowed in. The VIP party entrance was at Crockford's, which, of the three hotel resorts at Resorts World, is the highest level of over all luxury, although from what my new host at RW tells me, there are top notch luxury suites at all three hotels (Hilton, Conrad, Crockfords), so there is no reason to eschew any one of them.

The June 24th Grand Opening was a SOFT one, and the resort won't be in full operation until sometime in 2022, with a lot more coming, including entertainment from Celine Dion and Katy Perry, starting in Fall 2021. Construction continues, including up front on Las Vegas Blvd. S., where most of the surface areas are still unpaved dirt.

Here are a number of pictures I took of the VIP Party, where all food and drink were free. They were providing free food and drink at all of their restaurants for VIPs, which included guests ranging from, among others, Nevada Governor Sisolak, Mark Davis and Elaine Wynn, and celebrities like Usher and Paris Hilton. I'm just providing the photos link for anyone interested, it took quite a while to upload all the pics to that site, don't have time to re-load all the same videos, or pics to Imgur for re-posting here.

Among the positive I liked at RW, is the high level of food offered in their FOOD COURT - it's a decided cut above the usual Chipotle and Panda Express (not that Panda Express is bad, but the "fast" food offered at RW is on a whole different level). And YES we went to the DAWG HOUSE.



After I start playing at RW (my line is already open), I will advise on this "cashless" option about which people have been commenting around the internet. I prefer to play with chips anyway.

Okay I just re-watched this video I took at the VIP Pool Party while Tiesto was DJ'ing.

Does that girl (appears to first put something down?), pause to grab the exotic dancer's behind?

Quote: MDawg

Here are a number of pictures I took of the VIP Party

Was that a sneaky way to drive traffic to your own forum? or just a bit of laziness efficiency? $:o)

I'm not too bothered, though it raised eyebrows. Post your reports here, or there... or anywhere, but maybe don't straddle the two forums too often. Thanks.

We have direct picture hosting features here.

Efficiency!

When I posted all the pics there I had to keep track of which I had posted and which I had not yet. This becomes a time consuming issue, besides the posting part.

And anyway as you know (or should know), TruePassage isn't my forum I may be the main poster lately, but that forum has been around for something like ten years I think and I just got involved with it maybe a year ago as I recall.

All good! OnceDear!

Anyway, what do you think, is that brunette padding the blonde's arse, or what is going on there at the Tiesto DJ'ing event?

Quote: MDawg

June 24, 2021: The pre party was from 7pm to 11pm, at which point the general public was allowed in. The VIP party entrance was at Crockford's, which, of the three hotel resorts at Resorts World, is the highest level of over all luxury, although from what my new host at RW tells me, there are top notch luxury suites at all three hotels (Hilton, Conrad, Crockfords), so there is no reason to eschew any one of them.

The June 24th Grand Opening was a SOFT one, and the resort won't be in full operation until sometime in 2022, with a lot more coming, including entertainment from Celine Dion and Katy Perry, starting in Fall 2021. Construction continues, including up front on Las Vegas Blvd. S., where most of the surface areas are still unpaved dirt.

Here are a number of pictures I took of the VIP Party, where all food and drink were free. They were providing free food and drink at all of their restaurants for VIPs, which included guests ranging from, among others, Nevada Governor Sisolak, Mark Davis and Elaine Wynn, and celebrities like Usher and Paris Hilton. I'm just providing the photos link for anyone interested, it took quite a while to upload all the pics to that site, don't have time to re-load all the same videos, or pics to Imgur for re-posting here.

Among the positive I liked at RW, is the high level of food offered in their FOOD COURT - it's a decided cut above the usual Chipotle and Panda Express (not that Panda Express is bad, but the "fast" food offered at RW is on a whole different level). And YES we went to the DAWG HOUSE.



After I start playing at RW (my line is already open), I will advise on this "cashless" option about which people have been commenting around the internet. I prefer to play with chips anyway.

We were probably standing next to each other at some point and didn't even know it. Interesting just how different people can be, as I didn't think to take one picture or video. I think I even forgot my phone in the car and didn't care to go back and get it.

I agree with your assessment about the food court, I'm not impressed one bit by the gaming floor itself, I was expecting much more, I'm not sure what, just something special or different I guess. The High limit room was boring, the poker room was boring, the sportsbook is totally pathetic. I was kinda impressed with the center bar, and that Crystal bar where ever it is looks really cool from the pics I have seen. To be clear, this is just my first impression of the gaming floor and not the restaurants and other areas. Overall, as a resort, I'm sure it's spectacular.

To this day the only casino I ever felt was impressive was the Revel when it opened.

There didn't seem to be as big of a crowd as I was expecting there to be, I have seen much bigger openings with people jammed packed outside just waiting to rumble in with barely any room to move around inside obviously the enormity of the place may have only made it seem to me as if it wasn't that big of a turnout.

FYI IMO that big ball in the mall is dumb.

There's no credit check to get the cashless reloadable debit card, but they require you to have a Player's Card, ergo, your SS number is already on file with the casino, or it will be at some point if the winnings commence.

We were at Resorts World pretty much only for the VIP Opening arriving at about 7pm, although we did remain at the VIP Pool Party until about midnight when Tiesto stopped playing mostly because my wife was dancing nonstop and didn't want to leave. I was over Tiesto after about twenty or thirty minutes. She agreed that he went downhill energy wise after his first set of songs.

Within an hour or so of the general public's entrance we were on our way out.

Quote: ChumpChange

There's no credit check to get the cashless reloadable debit card, but they require you to have a Player's Card, ergo, your SS number is already on file with the casino, or it will be at some point if the winnings commence.

This is how it works at Resorts World Vegas.

First off you get a credit line. Same process more or less as with the other casinos - a full credit check is done of your personal credit with Experian, and your casino credit is run by VisuaLimits LLC / NRC, plus an average balance check and rating is done on your bank accounts, the same way I described in my blog:
CASINO CREDIT - HOW IT WORKS
One thing that was unexpected and interesting, is that the line inquiry on your Experian does not read “Resorts World” but is done by Central Credit LLC, which means that RW is running your casino credit dually through both VisuaLimits LLC / NRC (the new kid on the block for casino credit) and through Central Credit LLC (which has been around since 1956). With all other casinos at which I have obtained credit, the casino ITSELF runs your consumer credit, but apparently RW leaves it to Central Credit to run it for them.

Once your line is established, you establish a PIN code at the cage for your player card. As far as player cards people start off with the regular “red” player card but mine is already the highest level (or at least I am told highest level) black based on a single session where I hit RW for a sum large enough that if I mentioned it you could probably research and find out who I am. Oh it was beautiful mon gaillard, believe it. (At the cage, one person told me that all RW Vegas player cards are red but that different levels are represented merely internally, but somehow I got a black one. I assume that as a new resort not everyone even knows what he is talking about yet, as they try to figure out themselves how things really work.) At the tables, to draw against the line, you are not presented with any piece of paper to sign, but rather enter your PIN code on an Android software based tablet looking device (actually looks more like a huge remote control with a screen than a tablet), and then sign with your finger across the touch screen. That electronic combination of PIN and signature equals a marker drawn against your line.

When chips are handed to you, according to the pit bosses, they contain a chip that then is set to record these chips as belonging to YOU and only YOU at the table. Supposedly if you hand the chips to another player at the table, the system alerts them and disallows it. (The reason a casino would not want that happening is, say, so that two players using one bank roll could bet together to defeat the table max.)

However, I will say that what is said in theory and what happens in real practice, are often two different things, because a group of close friends of mine were playing at RW around the same time I was there, and one has a million dollar line and another friend of ours was a little short and he handed a stack of chips to that friend of ours who needed it one day, and then the next day our friend (who is a front money only player, not credit), had some more money wired in and had started winning again, and handed the stack of chips back to my friend – meaning, that the pit bosses didn’t seem to care or just looked the other way when about fifty grand in chips was passed back and forth openly at the table, and no computer system started blaring any kind of red alert.

Another time, just to test the system, I walked away from the table with about 900 of my chips (one five hundred, four one hundreds), and cashed them at the cage even while I, at that moment, had a marker outstanding. You’d think that if the system knew exactly whose chips those are, that the cage would know instantly that I had a marker out and not cash my chips.

I also asked a pit boss, who confirmed that those chips handed to me are also electronically assigned to ME, “What if I LOSE the chips out there in the casino? will anyone other than me be able to cash them?” The response: “If you lose them out there, you’re on your own!” – meaning, no, the system isn’t as advanced as all that!

Now, as far as “chipless” gaming. We don’t do that. All of us play with chips, same as always. And the below applies to Baccarat only – the roulette and blackjack tables do not utilize the same completely electronic system for sensing chips wagered and auto-calculating exact payouts (although all RW tables do, supposedly, “track” your chips and assign them to you).

Note: in general, from what I am being told, all casinos are moving toward a system where they will no longer allow ANYONE to play table games anonymously, and that eventually not even a cash player will be able to play without identifying himself. But, again, this is just what casino insiders are saying to me, whether it will happen sooner or later, who knows. I do know that at Resorts World they are insisting to identify each player electronically and in their system at the Baccarat tables.

As far as betting, at Baccarat, the computer system senses the value of the chips placed on the Bank or Player wager spots, and then tells the dealer exactly how much has been bet, and how much to pay out after each win. Their chips do not look or feel special, but I am told this is done via a RFID or some such inside each chip.

Their Baccarat allows Tie, Banker Pair, Player Pair, and what they call “Lucky Six” bets, which mean, a Bank Win on 6 (same as the Tiger 6 bet at Venetian/Palazzo). Lucky six pays 12:1 (two card 6) or 22:1 (three card 6) same as at other casinos. (The Wizard needs to correct his chart on Lucky 6 because it shows an erroneous payout of 23:1, it is 22:1 (it pays 23 FOR 1, but actual payout is 22:1)).

After a Bank win, the computer system tells the dealer exactly what should be paid out, with the dealer deducting the 5% commission automatically based on the figure prompted by the system – there is no option to stack up commission and pay it later. The system ROUNDS UP your bet to the nearest hundred dollar, so there is no percentage in making, say, a 605 or 625 Bank bet, as commission will be calculated on 700 in either case.

As I win, I place side bets for the dealer, and the computer will calculate commission on the entire winning Bank wager including what was placed for the dealer, so in those instances the dealer has to first pay himself, then remove the dealer winnings, pick up my chips (or ask me to do it – which sounds CRAZY based on that I could palm another chip right then and stick it in there if I were a crook, I suppose), drop the chips back down, and payout based on the system’s new calculation of the wager minus what was wagered on the side for the dealer.

To reiterate, dealer side bets (tokes) must be paid first, and removed from the Bank wager circle, before commission is recalculated and paid out on Bank wins.

This issue with dealer side bets doesn’t arise on Player side won bets, because there is no commission.

On tie bets, or other side wagers, you just tell the dealer that the chip or chips on the top are for him, and then after the full payout the dealer takes his portion, and you get the balance.

All bets, Bank, Player, and all side bets, are placed on a section of the table that corresponds to your "number" at the Baccarat table, so that the system is able to track your exact bets, winnings, and chips. I am curious to see if the system attaches all dealer tokes paid out to my end session calculated winnings too on my Bank wins, or if it loses track of those after the dealer pays himself, removes them, and then recalculates the Bank payout.

Just as an aside, I saw this player wager over 4000 on Lucky Six a few times, and hit it on the third try, for over $88,000. (The player tipped the dealer $2000. right then and there on that win.) This was on a shoe that I cut, which was getting a lot of Lucky Sixes (I rarely, if ever, bet Lucky Six – it is countable, but, the house edge on it is high). What was funny in a way, was this player was a special limits player at a Reserved table, but let me play at that table, the same way I sometimes let people play at my Reserved tables.

The chip sensing system is buggy, and sometimes the dealer has to pick up your chips and put them back down on the table for the system to detect them properly. I overheard one pit boss telling a dealer not to pick up the chips and ask the players to do it themselves, because, as that pit boss put it, “Some players don’t like anyone to touch their chips.” (Superstition, I suppose, but also, whenever I saw dealers pick up and put chips down I didn’t notice them clap their hands together and spread them either, to show that they didn’t palm any.)

The auto payout system itself is buggy, and on more than one occasion it stated in error that a player had been under paid, or that the player had not paid at all on a hand where in fact the player had lost, but the computer system indicated that the player had won.

The circled video screen is what tells the dealers what we have bet, how much to pay out, and whether all payouts have been done correctly (and, as noted, is often in error and has to be over ridden manually just to allow players to move on to the next hand).

The system keeps track of every bet and calculates your average, although I noticed whenever I put down a very large bet that the pit boss typed something, so maybe that is some kind of manual override or double verification for average bet tracking. The system also keeps track of the hours played. The intent is to make pit boss bet recording a thing of the past. One one session I played the system had me down for about a 4000 average, and I felt that it was closer to 5000. The exact number of hours played was calculated correctly - at RW, at least for Baccarat, seems like they go by exact hours, not the "one hour per Baccarat shoe" that some casinos award.
At RW, there seems to be no option to cajole the pit boss into recording a higher average for you - it's all electronic.

At the end of the session, you may present your chips to the pit boss to pay off what you pulled (to pay off your fully electronic marker), but the system is buggy there, and on one occasion their system via their handheld device wouldn’t allow the redemption and I had to go to the cage to handle redemption. Whether paid at the table or at the cage, that handheld device will print a paper receipt for you for REDEMPTION on request.

This is a REDEMPTION receipt they will print from the little handheld terminal, and give to you upon request.

(I found those three pennies when redeeming that particular marker, and cashing out winnings. I'm tellin' you, money just comes to me.  😂 And those pennies shore came in handy to hold down that receipt while taking the photo.)

On one occasion where I smashed them for a massive amount (I won every session but on one particular session I really killed them), I went to the cage to get a winner’s check and their system said that I had LOST. I laughed and said, “I won over ______ how do you get from a win like THAT to a loss?” On that occasion the cage asked me where I had played, and again, I laughed, “Your system is supposed to keep track of every penny we bet and yet it doesn’t know where I played?” In that instance they had to walk to the pit and verify everything verbally, including the exact amount of win, before they would issue the winning check.

By the way, I already cleaned out RW and left – so don’t bother looking for me there. Just a word to the obsessed who are desperately seeking MDawg. Then again, maybe I am still there, typing this as I sit in the high limit lounge. Or maybe I’m typing this in our new Vegas pad while we are deciding how to redecorate and furnish it. Or maybe not. I unfortunately need to keep people guessing as to my whereabouts. The point is to those few of you who want to track me down – leave me alone, and live your own lives puhlease.

As far as RW in general, it’s nice. The place has a lot of partiers, lot of scandily clad girls, but what it lacks – is any kind of coherent identity. It is still seeking that.

There are issues in the rooms. Their phone system doesn’t always work – one day when put on hold, you heard the recording of what sounded like a snoring monster, which at first convinced you that the call had been dropped (when I finally got the operator she told me that I was the second guest to have complained about that weird sound). There is no such thing as traditional Room Service and you must use a GrubHub app that RW refers to as On the Fly,

which does allow for a room charge, but not for the entire menu – only a SMALL portion of each restaurant's menu is available for room service via GrubHub. Most of their high end restaurants do not even do take out food, other than via the Grub Hub app. NO food was available when we started to stay at RW anyway for in room delivery from their food court (called Famous Foods), but that may be changing. You may use the Grub Hub app to have food delivered to your room, but you’ll pay both a service charge and a tip to the driver (assuming he drives anywhere – maybe the RW GrubHub delivery guys simply remain on property? I know the servers who bring up food when ordered via the “On the Fly” GrubHub app are just wearing regular RW uniforms).

Just to give you an idea, here is what $58. including 8.50 service charge and $5. tip will get you from their Mexican restaurant Agave, as delivered to the room:

(That's a Southwest chicken salad and a sort of Shrimp Aguachile - there ARE Shrimp under those tortillas.)

If I had known so little food was coming, I’d have ordered more as this was intended for two. Now, in our case everything (except the tip) is comp’ed, but even so, in general, what I am finding is that you will need to spend about fifty (or at least forty) bucks, whether at their Famous Foods food court or any restaurant, to satisfy one person who has a real appetite. Now, for a person not on a full comp, that’s pretty steep. So, there is no Grand Luxe Café or Wynn Drugstore or Cosmo Henry’s option to eat a full plate of food for around twenty five dollars. At RW, twenty or twenty five dollars will get you more of a half course meal than a full one.

RW still has problems with comp’ing non hotel guests for their food – yes, imagine that, a high roller is betting a few grand a hand and has to use his own credit card to pay for meals.

They are working on rectifying all these problems, but I assume that some of the widespread complaints about the place have to do with all these issues.

The Crockford’s side suites just became available Fourth of July weekend, but there are extremely nice comparable suites in the Hilton and Conrad too. All the suites (maybe all the rooms, I am just assuming though), have Nespresso machines in them.

The suites we stayed in (we moved around) all had refrigerators, bar areas, dining tables, large separate living room, soaking tubs, rain style shower heads. The rooms (maybe all of them) have wireless charging for cell phones,

but it didn't work for my iPhone 12 PRO MAX, at first I wasn't sure if it was because the phone was too big, or what the issue was, but then later I looked underneath at that particular suite and didn't look like the charger had even been installed yet. Oops.

The pool level villas are all two bedroom, and are down there near the day/nightclub. Beware of noise: Their nightclub Ayu is very noisy with booming bass and even sixty or more stories up it will rattle your windows, so if you value nighttime sleep, forget about the Strip view and stay on the other side (I can only imagine how loud the bass from those RW day and nightclub speakers must be for the unfortunates on the lower floors facing the Strip – part of the reason why we declined a villa – the NOISE).

There is a VIP sort of lounge in each section (Hilton, Conrad, Crockford’s) I believe, which offers free water, fruit and snacks. Access is limited to those in the higher story suites, but they don’t even yet have a system to keep others out of there, as room keys are not checked electronically. However, I assume if someone just walks in there and then doesn’t go up the elevator (your key IS needed to access the higher stories,) i.e. just walks right back out with something from VIP, the guard might say something. I do like the way the "VIP" elevators for the higher floors access ONLY a handful of floors - no waiting, direct access to your suite's floor.


RW is what it is, and you’ll probably like it for some things, dislike it for others, but they are trying to cater to the higher end crowd, that is for sure, and for those who aren’t high rollers, be prepared to pay cash through the nose for accommodations and food. Also be mindful of all the noise from their day/nightclubs if you choose to stay on a Strip facing room.

MDawg, thank you for the fantastic and detailed review. I may stay there next weekend. Coming in with a buddy to watch McGregor get flattened.

I think you'll enjoy the experience, but as this is what they call a "soft" opening, there are issues for them to iron out. I just hope that they review feedback and in fact correct what may be addressed.

Superior and Suburb write up!

Marcus Clark
Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66
Professional Casino Security Expert
Certified Company Firearms Instructor
Tic-Tac-Toe Expert & Mastering Chess
Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club
Mastering Cracking it. Bit-by-Bit, Piece-by-Piece Crediting Forum Members
Baccarat Winning Session Record: 3 out of 3 and 1 out of 1 Mini Session

Quote: Marcusclark66

Superior and Suburb write up!

Marcus Clark
Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66
Professional Casino Security Expert
Certified Company Firearms Instructor
Tic-Tac-Toe Expert & Mastering Chess
Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club
Mastering Cracking it. Bit-by-Bit, Piece-by-Piece Crediting Forum Members
Baccarat Winning Session Record: 3 out of 3 and 1 out of 1 Mini Session

Definitely wasn’t Rural. ;-)

One thing you will enjoy if you are into it is the fitness center at Resorts World Vegas. First rate.

Gradually, I understand that their restaurants will
1) start allowing direct (at the restaurant itself) take out beyond the rudimentary items allowed via the On the Fly GrubHub app;
2) add more items to the app for pickup or room delivery.

"When chips are handed to you, according to the pit bosses, they contain a chip that then is set to record these chips as belonging to YOU and only YOU at the table. Supposedly if you hand the chips to another player at the table, the system alerts them and disallows it. (The reason a casino would not want that happening is, say, so that two players using one bank roll could bet together to defeat the table max.)"


Question for Mdawg.

If the chips pushed to you at your BUY IN are registered only to YOU, then what happens when you win chips and the winning chips are pushed to you? Are they registered in your name as well?

I thought that RFID chips served two purposes:

1. To verify high denomination chips.
2. To allow chips in a player's betting position to be counted automatically.

Now you're telling us that chips are linked to individual players during their stay? What a bookkeeping nightmare this must be?

Does the dealer say, "hold on Mr Mdawg while I scan these chips into your account"?

Yes, that is what the pit bosses claim that as chips are handed to you whether initially or during a payout, that they are electronically assigned to you. Supposedly that space where you are playing which has your player number on it, keeps track of every chip you win or lose. I don't think it's farfetched to assume that this is the case, as the pit bosses are not tracking the win/loss or average bet so something has to be doing it.

But, again, as noted in my personal chronicle, after one massive win when I went to the cage to get a winning check, the cage initially declined to issue it because they said that the system was telling them that I had lost, not won. In that instance they had to verify manually the win at the Baccarat table with the pit boss, and only then would they issue the winning check. And then also, another time I walked straight to the cage with $900. in chips and was able to cash them as a sort of test, even with - at that moment - a marker still outstanding.

I think it would be fair to say that the electronic system does track all inflows and outflows of chips to an individual player while at the Baccarat table. I believe that once the player leaves the table, the RFID in the chips probably stops tracking.

Do you like RW more, less, or the same as the other high end casinos? (Bellagio, Wynncore, Venetian, etc…)

As far as the chips ‘belonging’ only to you, that makes no sense to me. If you are at a table with 4 other baccarat fiends, and you are not betting the same way, won’t you eventually get some of ‘their’ chips and them some of ‘your’ chips?

SooPoo you must have followed what I wrote previously. When chips are issued to you pursuant to either cash buy in or drawing on your line, they are electronically assigned to you. Then as you win or lose at Baccarat, chips are electronically deducted from your bankroll or electronically added to your bankroll. At the end, the system knows (or is supposed to know) exactly what you bought in with and what you walk with, and your average bet.

During the period you are at the Baccarat table it isn't or rather shouldn't be hard for such a system to keep track of every chip you receive, win or lose.


Like every resort, Resorts World has plus and minus. The casino, especially the high end Crockford's high limit areas, is beautiful. Cocktail service is high end and for non drinkers there is brewed tea in teapots and coffee including espresso, cappuccino, etc. The table minimums are pretty high at Crockford's - I didn't really look elsewhere.

Not sure I like the electronic wager and chip tracking system, as it tends to be buggy and slows play down frequently. But as I mentioned, according to casino insiders I know, this is the beginning of casinos' working towards identifying ALL table game players and allowing no anonymous table game play. I'd still say that we're years away from the day when no one will be allowed to play at table games without fully identifying himself, but it would seem that that day may come sooner or later.

The hotel itself, if you really know resorts, is not as beautifully or expensively built per square foot as Wynn/Encore or Venetian/Palazzo. However, the suites and villas are comparable to equivalents at any of the best Vegas resorts. I'd say that they spent more money per square foot on their casino than their hotel rooms.

The fitness center is excellent and rivals for the most part any non-hotel high-end "boutique" small gym - it's not a large as the Canyon Ranch gym at Venetian, but it has most of the same equipment plus even has a dragging/prowler sled for leg workout - probably the only hotel gym in the world that has that (but, interestingly, RW included the sled but neglected the inner outer Hip Abductor / Adductor workout machine).

Some of the restaurants are fine for dine in (although, while we were there any hamburger I ordered was crappy - the meat patties are all pre-made, nothing special, ground beef, cooked until it is dry - I was on a hamburger lunch kick for a bit there), but the options for take-out or any kind of room service are currently extremely limited.

Their spa is not yet open - not until August 2021.

As far as comp'ing, whenever we were there we were on a full boat RFB ride but from what I understand, you must play harder at RW to get equivalent comps than even at Wynn, Venetian or Bellagio, so they are definitely catering to a higher end crowd.

Loss "concessions" - they are the new kid on the block with an attitude so I wasn't able to negotiate as good a deal at RW as I have in place elsewhere. Hasn't been an issue yet anyway as I haven't lost at RW.

I've seen demonstrations of RFID "counting" of chips. Ive never heard of RFID chips registration numbers assigned to players. Ive never heard of a system that assigns RFID numbers to a player and then reassigns numbers when these chips are won or lost.

It's amazing the things that are out there that Mdawg finds out about.

Go to Resorts World Vegas and play Baccarat at Crockford's lounge.

Again, why anyone would go on and on about something he "thinks" is true, without investigating it for himself, just shows why there are so many repetitive unresolved arguments at this forum.

Quote: MDawg

Go to Resorts World Vegas and play Baccarat at Crockford's lounge.

Again, why anyone would go on and on about something he "thinks" is true, without investigating it for himself, just shows why there are so many repetitive unresolved arguments at this forum.

Resorts World has a large PR department. I'm in the business so I emailed them.

If I dont get a quick reply I'll phone them.

There's no need to go there.

Quote: MDawg

Loss "concessions" - they are the new kid on the block with an attitude so I wasn't able to negotiate as good a deal at RW as I have in place elsewhere. Hasn't been an issue yet anyway as I haven't lost at RW.

why have a rebate on the actual loss?
why not negotiate a rebate on theoretical loss?

Quote: 100xOdds

why have a rebate on the actual loss?
why not negotiate a rebate on theoretical loss?

That’s a great question. Of course you get ‘regular’ comps based on some percentage of theoretical loss, but I find it hard to imagine the casino handing you actual cash after you just won. I could be wrong….

I assumed that 100xOdds was just making a joke.

But come to think of it, there is a way, and I get it sometimes. Promotional chips. I used to get those more rarely but both this trip and the last one, I have been receiving thousands of dollars of these regularly. You get those based on either theo loss or actual loss. Also, some casinos let you order goods online (albeit at inflated prices) based on play, and in those situations you get a lot more "points" "casino dollars" whatever they call them depending on which casino you play at, based on play than loss.

However, no, there is no actual cash rebate concession against theoretical loss, only against actual.

Just for the record, comps against actual loss are in the range of 10-15%, typically 15%, rarely if ever higher than 20%. Comps against theoretical loss are in the range of 25 - 35%, much higher. Which is why a winning player might get more comps than a losing one, depending on the average bet and number of hours played.

Quote: MDawg

I assumed that 100xOdds was just making a joke.

But come to think of it, there is a way, and I get it sometimes. Promotional chips. I used to get those more rarely but both this trip and the last one, I have been receiving thousands of dollars of these regularly. You get those based on either theo loss or actual loss. Also, some casinos let you order goods online (albeit at inflated prices) based on play, and in those situations you get a lot more "points" "casino dollars" whatever they call them depending on which casino you play at, based on play than loss.

However, no, there is no actual cash rebate concession against theoretical loss, only against actual.

Just for the record, comps against actual loss are in the range of 10-15%, typically 15%, rarely if ever higher than 20%. Comps against theoretical loss are in the range of 25 - 35%, much higher. Which is why a winning player might get more comps than a losing one, depending on the average bet and number of hours played.

A) hm.. so the high roller cant get anything extra on his theo loss?
He gets the same standard theo loss comp formula that everyone else gets?


B) Many years ago, i read a story of a whale that was offered either a 20% rebate on his actual losses or 10% rebate on theo. (i guess on top of the normal theo that everyone else gets.)

he took the 10% theo and made out like a bandit by just playing basic strategy blackjack.

i tried to google that story but stopped at this article by Eliot Jacobson, Ph.D (I think he's a member in this forum?):
https://www.cdcgamingreports.com/commentaries/title-2-the-failure-of-loss-rebate-programs-for-high-rollers/

He talks about a loss rebate on “non-negotiable” (NN) chips.
- High roller buys in and wagers with NN chips.
- When he wins, he gets paid in regular chips (ie: negotiable chips).
- When he loses, the casino takes the NN chip.
- When he's out of NN chips, the casino rebates him x% of the NN chips he lost, regardless of how much he won.

instead of playing x hrs to before he can get the loss rebate, he has to play through his NN chips.
i think playing through NN chips seem like a better deal for the whale?

Never heard of a cash rebate against a theoretical loss. It wouldn't even occur to me to ask for that, I assume such a request would be met with stunned silence.

In theory I suppose getting some cash back against theoretical loss versus using them for comps, might work, but you'd have to figure that the actual dollar value of the comps is pretty low for the casino versus cash.

As far as promotional chips the ones I have been getting lately have been "play 'til you lose" ones. All promotional chips are non-negotiable but some are bet once, and some are play 'til you lose.

Anything about which I post I have personal experience. Theory - I'll leave that to others, but, if I hear a theory that makes sense and I could utilize it, why not, but I don't see any current Vegas casino rebating cash against theoretical loss.

By the way, the story on these Rolls: turns out they belong to a player. I met the player, heard the story, and confirmed it.

They were all shipped in from out of state. He is not a local.

WHY - and what the player gets out of having his collection displayed at RW, I don't know yet.

I received a reply from the PR department at Resorts World about how RFID chips are used.

If necessary I will forward the email to the Wizard if there's any doubt about its authenticity.

Here's what it said:

Hi Alan,

Per our VP of Casino Operations Rick Hutchins:

We are currently using them for accurate player ratings at the tables as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions. We have the ability to track to the player, but have not chosen to use that option at this time.

Public Relations Department
PR@rwlasvegas.com

Quote: AlanMendelson

I received a reply from the PR department at Resorts World about how RFID chips are used.

If necessary I will forward the email to the Wizard if there's any doubt about its authenticity.

Here's what it said:

Hi Alan,

Per our VP of Casino Operations Rick Hutchins:

We are currently using them for accurate player ratings at the tables as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions. We have the ability to track to the player, but have not chosen to use that option at this time.

Public Relations Department
PR@rwlasvegas.com

What’s your conclusion? That the pit bosses didn’t understand what part of the RFID tracking the casino has enabled?

Quote: unJon

What’s your conclusion? That the pit bosses didn’t understand what part of the RFID tracking the casino has enabled?

I draw no conclusions other than what I originally posted.

If the casino must track each and every RFID chip and assign it to players or the bank after each and every bet it would be a nightmare.

We all have played table games. Imagine the slowdown if chips had to be scanned each and every time they were collected or paid out by the dealers.

Quote: AlanMendelson

Imagine the slowdown if chips had to be scanned each and every time they were collected or paid out by the dealers.

Are you assuming that the chips must be scanned individually?

Could they be automatically scanned as part of a stack,
whether in the dealer's rack or on the player's betting spot?

A lot of things are good on theory and on theory only. I agree that it would be a nightmare to enforce it and it will piss off the whales you are luring into the casino.

Quote: speedycrap

it will piss off the whales you are luring into the casino.

Are the casinos required to disclose which chip-tracking features they are using?

Quote: coachbelly

Are the casinos required to disclose which chip-tracking features they are using?

Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

Quote: MDawg

By the way, the story on these Rolls: turns out they belong to a player. I met the player, heard the story, and confirmed it.

They were all shipped in from out of state. He is not a local.

WHY - and what the player gets out of having his collection displayed at RW, I don't know yet.

Probably the cheapest place for him to park them safely? If someone owns that many Rolls, it's not as if the owner drives one on Sundays, another on Modays, a third on Tuesdays, and so on - and in that case, why keep them covered up somewhere when they can be stylin' and profilin' on the Vegas strip?

Embedding an RFID chip in a high denomination casino chip allows the chip to be easily scanned to determine if it is counterfeit, or even if it was previously stolen and later attempted to be redeemed.

Quote: unJon

Three people can keep a secret, if two of them are dead.

I think a VP can manage to keep a secret from a reporter,
even if a floorperson disclosed the information to his favorite player.

Quote: coachbelly

I think a VP can manage to keep a secret from a reporter,
even if a floorperson disclosed the information to his favorite player.

Fair. I’m inclined to think the pit boss was wrong based on my experience with pit bosses.

Quote: coachbelly

I think a VP can manage to keep a secret from a reporter,
even if a floorperson disclosed the information to his favorite player.

Got it. An "official" response via email is far less reliable than "my pit bro told me". Makes a lotta sense.

Quote: sabre

Got it. An "official" response via email is far less reliable than "my pit bro told me". Makes a lotta sense.

Quote: AlanMendelson

It's amazing the things that are out there that Mdawg finds out about.

The pitboss knew about the feature, the VP confirmed the capability, and MDawg wrote about it earlier in this thread.

The industry reporter had never heard of such a thing.

How would MDawg have known about the feature, if not disclosed to him by the pitboss?

Quote: coachbelly

Are you assuming that the chips must be scanned individually?

Could they be automatically scanned as part of a stack,
whether in the dealer's rack or on the player's betting spot?

Have you ever played a table game? Have you watched a dealer collect bets and pay bets?

Now add in a scan of each chip taken from each player and a scan of each chip paid to each player?

Really coach. You need to see how bets are made and collected and paid.

Quote: coachbelly

The pitboss knew about the feature, the VP confirmed the capability, and MDawg wrote about it earlier in this thread.

The industry reporter had never heard of such a thing.

How would MDawg have known about the feature, if not disclosed to him by the pitboss?

Wrong read. The hypothesis is that the pit boss knew about the capability and told MDawg. Pit boss was wrong that capability was turned on. But keep trying. 😂

Quote: unJon

Wrong read. The hypothesis is that the pit boss knew about the capability and told MDawg. Pit boss was wrong that capability was turned on. But keep trying. 😂

The hypothesis is correct, the pitboss knew and he told MDawg.

We don't know whether or not the feature was active when he told MDawg,
apparently the pitboss thought that it was active.

My read is that the reporter endeavored to determine if the capability existed,
and that he doubted that it did exist.

Quote: AlanMendelson

You need to see how bets are made and collected and paid.

I have played table games and have seen how bets are made, collected and paid.

What's your point...that the chips can't be scanned in a stack, in the dealer's rack, or on the player's spot, that they need to be scanned individually?

Quote: coachbelly

I have played table games and have seen how bets are made, collected and paid.

What's your point...that the chips can't be scanned in a stack, in the dealer's rack, or on the player's spot, that they need to be scanned individually?

Instead of asking why dont you go back in this thread and read exactly what I wrote. My position has not changed.

Seen that Wendy's commercial, trying to be hip hop cool? "Troll Alert, Major Troll Alert!"

Quote: AlanMendelson

Instead of asking why dont you go back in this thread and read exactly what I wrote. My position has not changed.

Your position is that scanning the chips would cause a delay, or some kind of bookkeeping nightmare.

Here's what you wrote...

Quote: AlanMendelson

Does the dealer say, "hold on Mr Mdawg while I scan these chips into your account"?

Quote: AlanMendelson

Imagine the slowdown if chips had to be scanned each and every time they were collected or paid out by the dealers.

You don't know that scanning the chips would cause a slowdown, you're just assuming that it would.

From what MDawg wrote, the floor person is not keeping track of the bets, it's done electronically.

The chips are scanned all at once, without delay, when placed into the player's spot by the player as a bet, placed into the player's spot by the dealer to pay a winning bet, and when collected and placed into the dealer's rack.

According to the VP, this is how they track chips "for accurate player ratings at the tables, as well as verifying in the trays and at cashier during redemptions."

Sounds like a great opportunity.

I yield to both Mdawg and Coach Belly. They know. How do I know that they know? Because they have all the answers.

Coach Belly even knows the procedure for a procedure not even in use.

I will say nothing more.

Quote: AlanMendelson

I yield to both Mdawg and Coach Belly. They know. How do I know that they know? Because they have all the answers.

Coach Belly even knows the procedure for a procedure not even in use.

I will say nothing more.

Yeah, I know nothing about RFD chips, but I may know more than some people. LOL.

I suspect the weak link in MDawg's account is the word "disallowed." I'm behind the times, but the idea that swapping RFD chips with other people would be disallowed is a stretch.

RFD chips have been around forever; they just haven't been used continually. I think the LVA did some summaries a couple of years ago regarding which places used RFD chips at what stakes. The topic always came up after a robbery or two.

Basically, and high end poker players would know way better than me, my understanding is that RFD chips serve to:

1) Prevent counterfeiting.
2) Make accounting easier when large numbers of chips are out circulating in the world (as they are among poker players).
3) Help prevent players from creating loss mirages when they have actually won.

I thought the RFD chips just smoothed out the logistics of accounting for the house -- making it easy to know the provenance of the chips. Not to actually restrict their use.

I don't quite grasp what is being claimed by MDawg and coach here. Nothing new. I am easily confused by tech. Are they saying you can't hand chips off to a partner or family member or friend? That seems unlikely.

I kind of need a digital readout of how many chips I have in front of me, and how many I bet. I guess that's reserved for the dealer.

I complained to a craps table at my local casino that the table limits video screens were washed out and unreadable, at basically all tables everywhere. They pointed to one screen that was dark & out of order. The next time I came back to the casino, all the table limit signs were fixed and bold and readable.