Best comps in Macau?

I live in Hong Kong and the only place where I can go gamble is Macau. I know that comps in the US are quite generous compared to those here but it would still be nice if I could get free trips once in a while. Since the same companies open casinos here, the comps systems should be similar. Would you guys recommend gambling in bigger casinos like the Sands or smaller ones with lower limits? Last time I went to the Sands with around HK$2000 (US$300) and played Baccarat at HK$300-HK$500 minimum tables (US$40-US$65). It is very difficult to find a decent game that has lower minimums at the Sands. After checking my points I realized I only made 2 points for an hour of play and the amount required to move to the ruby level is 888 points in a year, so at 50 hands an hour that would mean a total 1.5 million USD wagered in a year to get a ruby card (and I saw people with ruby cards all over the place)!! Free helicopter rides to Macau are only offered to diamond members, which need to get 8,888 points in a year. There is very little info on the web about the comp programs offered in Macau so it is very difficult to make comparisons; I was hoping a member of this forum could help me find better deals.

My hunch is that the Stanley Ho casinos (SJM) would be more generous than the western-owned ones. My two trips there I didn't play big enough to get comped, so I'm hardly an authority. You do have the MGM, Venetian, and Wynn over there. In terms of generosity, I would rank the sister properties here in Vegas from most to least generous: MGM, Wynn, Venetian.

Link to Sands Rewards Club showing benefits (membership is free)

http://www.sandsrewardsclub.com/benefits.html

By now I've pretty much given up on comps. All I can get playing at my level are points that can be exchanged for gifts. It seems the only way to get a comp here is to be invited in a VIP room by a junket and I play nowhere near that level.

Me too.
I fly in from Thailand 4 or 5 times a year for at least a week, maybe two and play almost exclusively at Sands or Venetian. My Sands Rewards card is valid at both casinos (but not Sands Singapore). I have accumulated enough points for some gifts but not enough to transfer to the next level up.

I would wager maybe HK$5000 - HK$8000/day (HK$8000 = US$1000) when I am there playing roulette but I am always below the threshold for the "Ruby" status.

Maybe my trip this weekend will be rewarding enough to spend a bit more

During my last trip I was betting between HK$500 and HK$3,000 per hand and on some hands I bet over HK$5,000. My friend doesn't play with a card but he placed several 10k-20k bets in my circle when I asked him to help me get points. I got about 30 points in 5 hours of playing and the number of points required to get to the Ruby status is 888. When I arrived in the morning I saw some players with a Diamond card betting tens of thousands a hand and when I left in the afternoon most of these guys were still there betting the same amount on every hand; I guess this is the kind of players Macau casinos care about.

Based from the points I've been getting so far I would estimate you get a point for every theoretical HK$100 you lose, so Ruby players are worth at least HK$88,800 to the casino and Diamond players are worth nearly a million.

I was at Harrah's Horseshoe Hammond this weekend and in the Asian gaming area they had a "comp machine" where you could print out a noodle bar comp for yourself after 30 minutes of "rated play." After another 90 minutes of play you could print out another noodle bar comp. I thought this was a pretty innovative system. Bacc. minimums were $10 and Pai Gow Tiles was $25. I might go back and find out more details if people are interested.

I like to play casino games a lot, and have pretty much figured out who offers the best comps in Macau. Coming from Las Vegas where there is much more competition, and the comps are more easily attainable, it was hard at first to gauge how Macau was issuing comps. It was hard to really figure out who was giving out the best comps.

But after being in Hong Kong, and going over to Macau a lot, I've learned which chain gives the best comps. Now of course you must be a high limit player, with an average bet that is something the casino will value (5-20kHKD I'd guess).

I've established many relationships with different hosts at different properties. Wynn, and MGM seem to pretty much go by the book of your play, and will not issue additional discretionary comps, even if you should be entitled to something a little extra because of a large loss. It really has been my experience that they go strictly by what the computer tells them to issue. MGM has a little leeway, but Hosts at Wynn don't have much leeway at all. Wynn doesn't even issue first class ferry tickets, which almost every chain does for high rollers. This has been my experience bringing about a $50,000USD bankroll. So that tells you something about Wynn. Not surprising since they think they're the best property in Macau (obnoxious).

I was able to find that the international hosts at Venetian seem to match offers from other properties, and will take chances on new customers and issue comps up front such as rooms; very rare for Macau.

Galaxy seems to offer nothing until you play there, and makes no effort to go out of their way to try and steal customers from competitors, which is disappointing because their Australian counterpart is the total opposite.

I've found the best comps, and up front offers I got from Melco Crown, the City of Dreams, seems to be the best comps and offers to players, even if you've never played there before. They were able to verify my play at competitors, and offered me some really over the top comps which included suites, free airport transfers from/to Hong Kong, first class ferry tickets, and food. All this, and all they had to go on was my high level play at competitors. I'd never gambled a dime at their property. This was the first kind of comping I've ever seen in Macau that was the most in line with Las Vegas.

Basically, The City of Dreams seems to offer the best comps. Especially when dealing with their International Business Development department.

If anyone seems lost about comps in Macau, and are use to getting comps in Vegas, I'd be more than happy to answer any questions. I know many different hosts at different properties if you need a referral. It is a very confusing system in Macau, and varies greatly from chain to chain. Also from host to host.

How does Melco Crown gather data on players at other properties? Do they employ spies?

In a somewhat related topic, I explored comps in Manila, Philippines.

It seems it is also geared to the junket trips Macau is famous for. You can get a bowl of noodles for small play, an automatic comp system in a kiosk, but for real meal comps and rooms you are looking at huge action. It seems, and don't laugh, $500.usd equivalent per hand action to even be considered for room comps. I might add, the rack rates are very high and the rooms are very nice.

The Sands Marina Bay in Singapore is even more difficult, so the story goes, to get comped without using a junket rep/trip. (I've never been there)

The Chinese gamblers seem to really play big money. They are also often times in private areas. That said, there are some areas on the border with China, south, where smaller stakes are played and lower star hotels. China is a big country with a lot of poor people but also a lot of rich people.

thanks to "naturaleight" and others for sharing observations on macau comps.

just want to add my own 2 cents. i am a hk guy who go to macau from time to time, and i have interest not just in gambling but also on human aspect of gaming industry and development, and comps is one of those areas.

i don't have a structured analysis to say at this moment, just want to throw out some random thoughts based on my own explorations and learning from others on hk gambling forums:

- as people probably know, macau gaming audience is divided into mass market and junkets. junkets is basically casino outsourcing all the messy aspects of finding mainland chinese customers, taking care of them and managing their credits/debts. For not dealing with these headaches the 6 gaming license operators (and their subsidiaries) provide space and give a heavy cut to the junket clubs. the key things are "dead chips" and rebates and undoubtedly there are many colorful stories in that area, but most people (including me) can seldem look behind the curtain except from their related news appearing on newspapers from time to time.

- re mass market gaming the system is clearer. sands/galaxy/city of dreams/mgm provide descriptions and websites on their comps/membership systems (google and read through them)

sjm does not because its management is backward (stanley ho is 95 and living in a hk private hospital) and their business rely mostly on locals and a lesser-educated mainland chinese clientele

wynn does not because it thinks it is above the other operators, and because it is the best it does not need to offer an attractive comp system (btw i do like wynn and its properties :) i am just stating the fact that their attitude is obviously different from the others)

- sands comps system provides the most info and is most extensive simply because it has the largest presence, and also the most number of people passing through its massive casinos.

sands is also the easiest to get comped rooms simply because it has significantly more rooms than others (venetian 3000, cotai central 6000!, parisian 3000) and also sands macau.

- for example to get a comped room in cotai central holiday inn hotel you need 25 points, and 1 point is earned from betting different amount on different games:

slots 460 (because slots has the highest hold and theo, and also because slots are not that popular among chinese gamblers)
sic bo/roulette around 1200
baccarat/blackjack around 3000

- but don't be fooled by the seemingly low 25 points for a comped sands room, it is that low only because sands has more rooms than it knows what to do with. for the other comped items such as food voucher, ferry tickets, non negotiable chips and so on, they still require several dozen points just to start getting them, and need more if any meaningful comps are considered.

- ofcourse comps system changes and it is basically correlated to the chinese economy, at the height of the chinese economic bubble in 2014 casinos had no incentives to attract people because they were making money hand over fist, but now the chinese economy is in much worse shape (reality is way worse than what the chinese communist party propaganda tells the world) casinos are more attuned to the regular joe gamblers.

- there is also the question of new developments, in 2016 we had parisian and wynn cotai, mgm cotai is slated to open this october, sjm cotai next year, cod will open a wacky new tower next year, there are also other future stuff such as louis 13 hotel, galaxy phase 3 and 4, studio city phase 2 etc but those are at least several years ahead.

- all the current casino licenses will expire in 2020 and 2022, and nothing yet has been said by the chinese government even though all the operators are rather anxious on the uncertainy.

there are whispers of power struggles involving factors such as chinese government vs american powers, stemming outflow of capital from mainland china, political management of macau and its people (as an example to the disobedient democracy-wanting hk population), cia spies based in sands/mgm/wynn properties, and other some such tom clancy novel materials...

sorry if my ramblings are all over the place, i am just a guy interested in these stuff and anyone is welcome to communicate in this thread or contact me to talk more.

happy gambling in macau! :)

Thank you very much!

Thanks, sleepingvery. Really appreciate the info.

no problem at all, just like everyone here i am some guy who have an interest in gambling and the gaming industry (otherwise we wouldn't be posting here would we??)

except unlike most of the posters who are probably u.s.-oriented and have experience in vegas, i am based in hk and do the same thing for macau.

if have questions please always feel free to ask and see if any of us macau-oriented posters can answer, from our limited knowledge.

Quote: sleepingvery

if have questions please always feel free to ask and see if any of us Macau-oriented posters can answer, from our limited knowledge.

Hello. Since we are here...are there any "non casino" hotels you can recommend which are "reasonable" price wise? Reasonable means less than $100.usd a night. (good location)

I've also never heard of sports betting Macau. Is it there and just not talked about? i.e. betting on American Football?

Thanks.

Quote: NokTang

Hello. Since we are e there any "non casino" hotels you can recommend which are "reasonable" price wise? Reasonable means less than d a night. (good location)

I've also never heard of sports betting Macau. Is it there and just not talked about? i.e. betting on American Football?

Thanks.

re hotels i guess it depends on what you are looking for and when you want to stay.

also why do you want a "non-casino" hotel, is it because you will be travelling with children? bear in mind if you just avoid the casino in the hotel lobby both casino and non-casino hotels are practically the same.

for tourists to macau, the best bet is to stay and sightsee in the cotai casino complex area, in which case the cheapest is the broadway hotel (part of galaxy group)

you can walk via a footbridge to galaxy main complex and play in its famous pools and artificial beach. there is a small entry price i think. but it does have a casino in the lobby.

the next cheapest hotel in the cotai area is the sands cotai central holiday inn hotel.

a dangerous way to get a free cotai hotel room is to arrive early in the day, sign up for the loyalty club, place thousands of hkd of offsetting bets on sic bo or roulette, and if you can get in a dozen games without the triple number or roulette zero come up, then you can ask for a room... but costly backfire is very possible :)

if you want to stay in the macau peninsula there are many local choices to choose from, one example i can give you is the "legend palace" hotel/casino just next to macau ferry terminal, it opened only a couple months ago and is reasonably priced.

the rebuilt jai alai casino also has a hotel but i don't think it has opened.

if you want old school you can try the lisboa hotel (the old one, not the newer grand lisboa) and see for yourself macau's most eminent casino hotel for several decades pre-2004 until sands macau opened.

re sports betting chinese gamblers just have no knowledge and no interest in it, certainly not enough to warrant sports betting facilities:

/sites/muhammadcohen/2015/11/10/sports-book-lounges-could-bring-new-life-to-macau-casinos-asia-can-save-daily-fantasy-sports/#7a0205b57297

there are some underground betting in mainland china for their soccer teams, and hk's jockey club has sports betting for international soccer, but that's it.

btw one of my goals in the future is to arrange a trip to manila to see for myself the new luxury casino hotels, namely cod manila and the very new okada manila.

never been to phillipines, and i guess the recent resorts world manila masscare may have detered some tourists.

on hk gambling discussion forums people are also eagerly anticipating japan casinos built in the next decade, because japan has attractive and wide spread cultural soft power, and people expect good things.

Quote: sleepingvery

btw one of my goals in the future is to arrange a trip to manila to see for myself the new luxury casino hotels, namely cod manila and the very new okada manila.

never been to phillipines, and i guess the recent resorts world manila masscare may have detered some tourists..

COD Manila isn't really that upscale. Resorts World(now back open) would be like downtown Las Vegas without any charm. Solitaire is a very upscale property as it looks like Okada will be.

I'm going back soon and will do a trip report. One thing worth mentioning, in Manila, you are in the third world. Outside of these properties and it's just a mess.

Good Luck

Quote: NokTang

COD Manila isn't really that upscale. Resorts World(now back open) would be like downtown Las Vegas without any charm. Solitaire is a very upscale property as it looks like Okada will be.

I'm going back soon and will do a trip report. One thing worth mentioning, in Manila, you are in the third world. Outside of these properties and it's just a mess.

Good Luck

do you mean solitare is more upscale than cod? i did not know that

i have seen the pics of okada from skyscrapercity and it looks to be quite upscale

i understand southeast asian countries are not exactly on the same level of human development as say, northern europe... :) thanks for the advice anyway

Quote: sleepingvery

do you mean solitare is more upscale than cod? i did not know that

i have seen the pics of okada from skyscrapercity and it looks to be quite upscale

i understand southeast asian countries are not exactly on the same level of human development as say, northern europe... :) thanks for the advice anyway

Yes, I mean Solitare seems more upscale. However, my experiences are limited to exposure to the casino. I have no real opinion on the rooms. I did dine at COD and it wasn't that impressive. I didn't dine at Solitare. Please keep in mind that in both it's a facade as they are staffed by Filipino's. Wonderful and lovely and pleasant as they are, playing the role of five star hosts is somewhat new and awkward to them. I'm no better nor are you or anyone, but the facade just seems more obvious to me. You get the point, it exists worldwide i suppose. I wouldn't call it "human development" as much as simply cultural differences. When you live without running water, putting on a uniform doesn't exactly put you into the sphere of communication with people paying 10,000.piso a night for a hotel room. You simply can't relate to it or them. Okada has it's own website you can review. It's obvious catering to Asian's, which is of course expected. Sorry to digress. I'm having problems with my USA bank and living on the edge of insanity.

Quote: NokTang

Yes, I mean Solitare seems more upscale. However, my experiences are limited to exposure to the

i understand what you mean, i have always known this is a big world, and there are many different human conditions.

i think okada wants to be very upscale and it sure looks impressive, japanese is also famous for their attention to details, i would very much want to put together a trip there. but probably not in the immediate future...

i hope things will become better for you, it is never easy to navigate life in these modern rapidly changing times...

Quote: sleepingvery

i hope things will become better for you, it is never easy to navigate life in these modern rapidly changing times...

I've depended on the old fashioned method, mail. In fifteen years here in Thailand, two things have been lost in the mail. One was my replacement Social Security Card. Second now, a new VISA Debit Card allowing me to access my funds in the USA. Two, and only two. What a horrible set of circumstances.

I sense someone could take advantage of the staff in the Philippines. I mean the dealers and "suits". Something is out of balance. As an example, a craps boxman was caught stealing, putting chips in his shoe.

Quote: NokTang

I sense someone could take advantage of the staff in the Philippines. I mean the dealers and "suits". Something is out of balance. As an example, a craps boxman was caught stealing, putting chips in his shoe.

i read somewhere casino loses way more money to casino theft than to outside thefts and advantage players.

in macau there are frequently news of insider theft of various kinds stealing from casinos and junket private clubs.

Quote: sleepingvery

i read somewhere casino loses way more money to casino theft than to outside thefts and advantage players.

in macau there are frequently news of insider theft of various kinds stealing from casinos and junket private clubs.

In Macau, do you have any insight on the junkets? I've always wondered how the credit was handled. I ask specifically if the "junket rep" has to front the money for the players or does the casino think they can collect from him/her after/if a group loss/win? Having some exposure in my life to these transactions, I can attest giving credit for casino play has a certain degree of risk. In the Americas, "junket reps" run like rats when a player doesn't pay his/her losses.

In addition, if a player comes there on the junket reps "trip" and doesn't play as agreed/expected, what happens? Do they charge the rep or does the rep try and lay off the problem to the hotel desk agents? This is another nightmare at the lower play levels.

Cheers mate.

Quote: NokTang

I ask specifically if the "junket rep" has to front the money for the players or does the casino think they can collect from him/her after/if a group loss/win?

The junket company fronts the money. The junket has to collect the money from the gambler. The casino doesn't care; it always get its money from the junket before hand. The junket will harass the gambler+family physically. Usually works. If not, then they will make an example of the gambler and tell everyone as advertisement.

Quote:

In addition, if a player comes there on the junket reps "trip" and doesn't play as agreed/expected, what happens?

Maybe nothing. Maybe will harass the gambler for the trip/hotel costs.

supergrass is right.

you see, gambling in china is illegal (see the recent austalian crown employees arrests), and is supposedly immoral according to the chinese communist party.

secondly, most of the new money generated in the past few years are from:

1. china printing renminbi by the tonnes (its real economy remains stagnant from many factories leaving the country)
2. corruption by communist party officials

therefore not only are the rich corrupted chinese not supposed to gamble, they are gambling with criminal money, that the government do not want leaked to the outside world

that means these macau casino customers are very messy and potentially dangerous, therefore by outsourcing them to the junkets the casinos can pretend they know nothing, and they need to do nothing - all responsibilities belong to the junket.

as for the junket operators, money-related murder and violence are very real. in the past few years there have been regular news of murder and violence inside mainland china, both committed by the junket operators on its customers, and also committed by indebted customers towards the junket operators.

such is the occupational risk of macau high-roller business.

Quote: sleepingvery

such is the occupational risk of macau high-roller business.

One has to wonder why billions(with a B) of dollars are being invested in Manila properties and development? I guess the old saying "gamblers find a way" applies. With Japan and Korea on the horizon it, the corruption and violence, will only get worse.

the gambling industry has always had associations with the darker side of society, no matter where it is in the world

e.g. drugs, drunks, prostitution, organized crime, theft, debts, bankruptcy, violence, depression, suicides, destruction of families, decadence, degeneration etc

such is the fact of human life.

Quote: sleepingvery

i read somewhere casino loses way more money to casino theft than to outside thefts and advantage players.

in macau there are frequently news of insider theft of various kinds stealing from casinos and junket private clubs.

No more frequently than other markets. The Macau issues make the news because they are usually larger $ values involved.

Quote: NokTang

In Macau, do you have any insight on the junkets? I've always wondered how the credit was handled. I ask specifically if the "junket rep" has to front the money for the players or does the casino think they can collect from him/her after/if a group loss/win? Having some exposure in my life to these transactions, I can attest giving credit for casino play has a certain degree of risk. In the Americas, "junket reps" run like rats when a player doesn't pay his/her losses.

In addition, if a player comes there on the junket reps "trip" and doesn't play as agreed/expected, what happens? Do they charge the rep or does the rep try and lay off the problem to the hotel desk agents? This is another nightmare at the lower play levels.

Cheers mate.

LOL. If you are asking this question, I would recommend that you should stay away from the junkets and stick to cash gaming. In the strongest way possible. This will be my only comment on this topic. Just stay away.

I agree, it all depends on where it is. After all, the mentality is different.