MGM National Harbor

Opens December 8th. Who plans on checking this out and what are the chances it will have any decent video poker? By decent I'm talking about 99%+.

I work 10 minutes from there and half of me hopes there is nothing there to play so I can save money and the other half of me wants there to be something decent to play not so I can "make" money but at least play with the hope of not getting my ass handed to me for when I do play. Although even 99%+ can be very rough if your not hitting quads.

I'm fairly confident there won't be much there based on the fact the three nearest casinos have no good video poker. So why would MGM offer any?

Thoughts?

I think you will have to wait weeks if no longer to see; at first expect nothing and high minimums at the tables too - with crowded conditions. But there is hope, the market is getting more saturated

Don't know about VP hopes, good VP seems to be something that a casino with the state hooked in directly on collecting the profits can hardly think of it

10 minutes away eh? how many of us would be kicking ourselves soon for yielding to temptation?

im going to avoid the mad house for a couple of weeks.
I expect traffic to be even more horrendous

The hotel has 300 rooms and will usually be booked solid I assume - I got a teaser email offering me a complimentary room today though*; I have to think they are setting up arrangements for local hotels? There is a number to call, not sure I will, I am planning nothing near future. It'd be interesting to see what it is about though.

Stay tuned, I might call.

*evidently somehow my stay at Gold Strike in Tunica MS got me pegged as something beyond the low roller that I actually am. I had assumed that offers would be coming only from Mississippi though. This one I wasn't expecting

I called today and was getting set up for a complimentary room - just excusing myself at the point of confirming it.

This floors me. Either rooms are easier to get than I can really believe, or I have been put on a list I don't belong on.

Meh, doesn't make it +EV. Just not planning a trip this month, and although I think it is a nice deal will just scratch my head and pass on it.

Anybody else checking on this?

My guess is that they have single line 15/9 deuces up to 9/6 jacks $5 and above. Below $5 single line would be 9/6 ddb at best. Multi line would be all 98-98.5% percent at .25 to $5.00. Below .25 would be 97% or worse crap. I'll bet the UX vultures will be out in force. 3,4,5 craps and 6/5 blackjack are possible. I do think that Horseshoe Baltimore and Maryland Live will respond with some better games so you may see the $1/$2 9/6 jacks or 9/6 ddb return to the shoe.

One thing I will be concerned about is safety and security. The casino butts up against one of the poorest neighborhoods in the DC area and I don't know whether I'll feel safe bringing a few grand (or leaving with a few grand) in there or not.

I drove past it over the weekend. New street signs are up and it's a beautiful property as seen from 495 (in particular eastbound/outer loop). Enjoy the traffic everyone!

Quote: Simon23

One thing I will be concerned about is safety and security. The casino butts up against one of the poorest neighborhoods in the DC area and I don't know whether I'll feel safe bringing a few grand (or leaving with a few grand) in there or not.

If even one person gets shaken down on the way back to their car, rumors will spread. My guess is that they will have a small army of security personnel.

Quote: odiousgambit

I called today and was getting set up for a complimentary room - just excusing myself at the point of confirming it.

This floors me. Either rooms are easier to get than I can really believe, or I have been put on a list I don't belong on.

Meh, doesn't make it +EV. Just not planning a trip this month, and although I think it is a nice deal will just scratch my head and pass on it.

Anybody else checking on this?

I received an email yesterday offering 2 free weekday rooms during the next two weeks. Considering booking it just to see what the rooms are like, but I imagine I wouldn't want to gamble with the minimums that will be offered.

National Harbor does not have video poker on the floor - I repeat - National harbor does not have video poker on the floor.

Just got back from opening. It's a beautiful place and you can definitely see where the billion went. The only VP they offer is crappy hold pay tables at the bars. I couldn't get a straight answer on whether this a short term or long term strategy on MGMs part.

More poker derivs and less BJ than the rest of MD casinos. Bacc room is in a very open area with high ceilings. A break from the traditional secluded feel of bacc pits.

All BJ is old school MD rules. S17, SA.

Quote: TheoHuxtable

National Harbor does not have video poker on the floor - I repeat - National harbor does not have video poker on the floor.

Just got back from opening. It's a beautiful place and you can definitely see where the billion went. The only VP they offer is crappy hold pay tables at the bars. I couldn't get a straight answer on whether this a short term or long term strategy on MGMs part.

More poker derivs and less BJ than the rest of MD casinos. Bacc room is in a very open area with high ceilings. A break from the traditional secluded feel of bacc pits.

All BJ is old school MD rules. S17, SA.

As crowded as it was for grand opening it is possible you missed some machines, hopefully. I'll check out the place next week. Maybe Monday night after work around 1am. Hopefully some parking available at that time.

Word from a friend is that after 11pm they closed the entrances... they were at capacity.

Would you like a little 6:5 with hit 17? This place is a joke. Opens at 11pm. At 2am every restaurant in the while place shut down. Thousands of people couldn't get so much as a turkey sandwich.

Quote: Sandybestdog

Would you like a little 6:5 with hit 17? This place is a joke. Opens at 11pm. At 2am every restaurant in the while place shut down. Thousands of people couldn't get so much as a turkey sandwich.

Did you see any 6:5 or H17? All I saw was 3:2 and S17.

Security was physically blocking people from entering the Starbucks after it closed. Made no sense!

Quote: cmlotito

As crowded as it was for grand opening it is possible you missed some machines, hopefully. I'll check out the place next week. Maybe Monday night after work around 1am. Hopefully some parking available at that time.

I asked several floor people and all confirmed no VP.

Quote: TheoHuxtable

I asked several floor people and all confirmed no VP.

Living so close, no VP might be a good thing for me.

I went around 4 am and half of the blackjack tables on the main floor were 6/5, all but one (which was $25) at the $50 level. A quarter of the tables were $50 H17 CSM, and the other quarter were $100 S17 shoe. High limit had a dozen tables, mostly $200 S17 shoe.

Craps (they have 10 tables, eight of which were open) was $50 min, 3-4-5x odds.

Roulette was mostly $25, and there were carny games (3CP, 4CP, LIR, UTH, BJ Switch) at the $15-25 level.

And yes, my understanding is that the only VP is at the bars.

$50 dollar craps at 4AM. Ouch. Hopefully things settle down by next weekend when I plan on visiting from North Carolina. Worst case scenario I can go to MGM for food, drink and hotel and hit Horseshoe for more reasonable limit games. Hard to imagine things wont settle down given competition from MD Live and Horseshoe. (Both around 50 minutes away). I will update this thread next weekend when I visit.

Quote: TheoHuxtable

I asked several floor people and all confirmed no VP.

reports say VP section near the poker room.

Fifty dollar minimum bet at a craps table is too rich for me, but please remember that just as the people posting here are "testing the waters" or 'planning to test the water'... so to is the casino staff measuring the public's response and getting things smoothed out during this period.

I would recommend getting a free room if its offered solely to stay on the list. Free is free even if the tables are too rich for your blood.

May none of you have security concerns entering the property, may all of you have security concerns while leaving the property due to your massive winnings.

Remember, many people to whom you address questions in a casino don't have the slightest idea what you are talking about but will never let on that they simply do not know. A newly opened casino can be the worst.

I'll be curious as to how that Craps Minimum evolves. Depends probably on how the crowds react.

Quote: 100xOdds

reports say VP section near the poker room.

I'll keep an eye out for that, thanks.

Hmmm...might have to rethink going. Girl at work showed me a video on Facebook of a fight breaking out at the casino last night apparently over a machine. Looked like security took its time breaking it up. Think I'll wait a while.

Quote: cmlotito

Hmmm...might have to rethink going. Girl at work showed me a video on Facebook of a fight breaking out at the casino last night apparently over a machine. Looked like security took its time breaking it up. Think I'll wait a while.

Yep, that's the video i saw.

Quote: cmlotito

Yep, that's the video i saw.

And this was exactly my worry as well. They estimated 20k+ was there on Friday night. I'll wait to see if things calm down after the 1st of the year.

Stopped by again this morning and did see VP machines on one side off the poker room. Looks like JOB is 7/5 at the quarter level and 8/5 at the dollar level.

Quote: hail2skins

Stopped by again this morning and did see VP machines on one side off the poker room. Looks like JOB is 7/5 at the quarter level and 8/5 at the dollar level.

See any other games besides JoB?

re the video, everybody sees different things, but I got a kick out of the guy with the drink in his hand who was just digging it and, easy to miss at first, the guy in the white coat protecting a chick with a lot of leg - finally they seem to disagree which way to go and she seems to just push him out of there.

Can't see what happens when the one guy picks up a chair, could have been ugly LOL

Quote: cmlotito

See any other games besides JoB?

Yep, these were actually in those multi-game machines, but didn't check the paytables on the other types of games. I noticed that the machines had $2 and $5 availability but the only game shown at those was blackjack. They also had machines with Triple, Five, and Ten Play.

I figured since the paytables for JOB weren't great, that they likely aren't that good for the other games as well. I'm out of town now, but will probably stop by MGMNH on the way home Monday, and will check out what the other games are like.

Quote: odiousgambit

Can't see what happens when the one guy picks up a chair, could have been ugly LOL

It appears to me that the gentleman with the chair is the individual who was initially attacked, or at least, the first individual we see attacked on the film. It further appears that he was being attacked by two other gentleman, and one of those gentleman was wearing a jacket and a T-Shirt such that the bottom of the T-Shirt was below where the jacket stopped.

After the initial attack, the gentleman writhed around on the floor a bit and eventually found himself up against a bar stool. That gentleman then eventually got up, (after the two other gentlemen, I presume, had been pulled a few feet away) and attempted to pick up the bar stool after dragging it a foot or two to an open part of the floor. The gentleman dropped the bar stool on his first attempt to pick it up, shortly after which time it appears that the guy with the T-Shirt that stopped below his jacket decided to leave the scene, almost immediately after that, then gentleman who was initially accosted in the video finally managed to pick up the bar stool. It sounds like he threw it and hit something unrelated, or hit a person and then the stool hit the floor or something unrelated.

The mechanics of a bar stool are such that it is a very ineffective weapon, so it is unlikely anyone got seriously hurt by it. A bar stool is the type of weapon that, short of throwing it at an unsuspecting target or someone with his back turned, it'll probably get taken away from you or you will determine it is a useless weapon before you do anything with it.

If you were to swing a bar stool by the legs, or a leg, given the distribution of the weight (with the heaviest part, the seat, the furthest away from you) chances are you're not going to build up enough velocity to achieve a meaningful strike, that and the fact that the person would be getting hit with a piece of upholstery....It would, at worst, graze someone other than a very small person.

If you were to lift a bar stool by the seat and use the legs as a weapon, as the gentleman who appears to have thrown it did, it is neither effective as a jabbing, swinging or throwing weapon because, due to the distribution of the weight, you really can't get too much speed behind your swing.

If one absolutely must attack a standing opponent with a bar stool, and that opponent has reason to believe an attack may be coming, that guy probably attempted to do so in the most effective way, throwing it legs first (from the target's perspective) and hoping to maybe catch the target with some part of the metal, or alternatively, to distract the target (who will attempt to dodge or block the bar stool) and then rush them when they are so distracted.

Other than a very lucky shot (such as to the eye) the only way a bar stool could be a terribly effective weapon is against an opponent who has already fallen. At that point, a bar stool could be picked up much in the fashion that it would be if all you wanted to do was move it, hoist as high as reasonable into the air, and then the legs brought down into the most vulnerable area of the target possible. Even then, that would probably serve as a distraction more than anything if the opponent is ready for the attack, with the real objective being a follow up kick to the side of the head or abdomen/ribs.

I remember some high school kid got killed in the Boulevard Mall food court a day after I was there. They beat him with chairs after he tried to hit on some girl some other guy was interested in. Pretty sure that was gang related. I don't think the kid even knew the guys crew was there or what trouble he was going to encounter.

I could see that, like I said, chairs/stools could do very serious damage to a downed opponent, especially if it is a group attack.

Quote: Mission146

. . . especially if it is a group attack.

Nowadays most are and in a crowded casino with frustrated players waiting for a free machine, any solitary attack sure won't stay solitary. Nice legs on the broad but in a fight she is in danger too these days.

Quote: FleaStiff

Nowadays most are and in a crowded casino with frustrated players waiting for a free machine, any solitary attack sure won't stay solitary. Nice legs on the broad but in a fight she is in danger too these days.

Apparently I was too distracted from the fisticuffs to see this broad. Gotta rewatch the video now.

Quote: cmlotito

Apparently I was too distracted from the fisticuffs to see this broad. Gotta rewatch the video now.

OK, just saw the video again. What I find amazing is her boyfriend/husband is able to block her so well that you can't even tell anyone is standing behind him for part of it.

Legs weren't difficult to look at either.

there seems to be others who got a little carried away at this opening ...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/10/liquor-board-chair-arrested-dui-outside-casinos-gr/

Quote: odiousgambit

there seems to be others who got a little carried away at this opening ...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/10/liquor-board-chair-arrested-dui-outside-casinos-gr/

He should have used Uber.

Quote: odiousgambit

there seems to be others who got a little carried away at this opening ...

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/dec/10/liquor-board-chair-arrested-dui-outside-casinos-gr/

Ouch.

And Maryland allows 6 to 5 and H17 BJ now???

Quote: tringlomane

Ouch.

And Maryland allows 6 to 5 and H17 BJ now???

H17, yes, last year or so

6:5 , I am pretty sure it's not allowed

Quote: odiousgambit

6:5 , I am pretty sure it's not allowed

Played at Horseshoe Baltimore last month, they had 6:5, two tables I believe.

Quote: odiousgambit

H17, yes, last year or so

6:5 , I am pretty sure it's not allowed

Looks like 6:5 is now allowed.

http://gaming.mdlottery.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Blackjack-Standard-Rules-Version-1.2-1.pdf

Page 4 -
(3) The following inscriptions:
(a) “Blackjack pays 3 to 2”; or
(b) “Blackjack pays 6 to 5”; and
(c) “Insurance pays 2 to 1”.

Page 26 -
A. A facility operator shall pay a winning:
(1) Blackjack Wager at odds of 1 to 1;
(2) Blackjack at either:
(a) Odds of 3 to 2; or
(b) Odds of 6 to 5;
(3) Insurance Wager at odds of 2 to 1;

well, well, well

BJ players better watch their step, is PA next?

Quote: odiousgambit

well, well, well

BJ players better watch their step, is PA next?

Eventually but not yet. They tried to change it to 65 but a few of the casinos. Yes the casinos fought against it. They sighted that having the best rules will bring people to PA with all the new conpetition. It basically worked how competition is supposed to work.

Quote: odiousgambit

well, well, well

BJ players better watch their step, is PA next?

Everywhere is next!

Baltimore Sun article covers this

http://www.baltimoresun.com/business/bs-bz-casino-blackjack-rules-20161224-story.html

Maryland politicians have never seen a tax they didn't like. When gambling first started, they had great rules that looked out for the player. Then the casinos convinced the regulators that hit 17 would mean more revenue for the state. 6:5 was just a natural progression. It's a such a shame. The sad part is that the average gambler won't protest. It's too addicting that they will still play. Meanwhile, taxes have not gone down a penny. Our governor did manage to lower tolls in a few places, so at least he's managed to give a little relief.

This casino is fantastic! MGM knows how to do it right. The waitresses were on point and the restaurants are amazing. The craps tables were great.... not crazy hop and prop players jumping in an out of the game with 40 dollar buy ins. Pulled away with a few G's and called it a night. I will be back. Hit Maryland Live the next day for a few more G's and drove to AC. Stopped in the ever empty Resorts and had a craps table to myself. Smoked it! Great weekend!

MGM National Harbor is great, the layout is very reminiscent of Aria.

Notes:
-Everything at $25 and up on a Sunday afternoon
-Outdoor terrace is beautiful. Fountain and a great view (top floor), there are couches available for anyone to sit on
-Bathrooms at the exits/entrances
-Craps is 3,4,5 (wasn't it a statutory 10x at one point?)
-Hard to find the high limit slot area

Coolest thing: They have a dozen machines that read your ID and print out your MLife card. Many MLife clerks have been automated. Every casino needs a few of these.

Quote: ahiromu

MGM National Harbor is great, the layout is very reminiscent of Aria.

Notes:
-Everything at $25 and up on a Sunday afternoon
-Outdoor terrace is beautiful. Fountain and a great view (top floor), there are couches available for anyone to sit on
-Bathrooms at the exits/entrances
-Craps is 3,4,5 (wasn't it a statutory 10x at one point?)
-Hard to find the high limit slot area

Coolest thing: They have a dozen machines that read your ID and print out your MLife card. Many MLife clerks have been automated. Every casino needs a few of these.

Thanks for the update btw. Looks like high minimums are going to be there for a while - eventually I'll see inside I guess, probably during the week and will hopefully see lower mins.

I'm also hoping the competition will help usher in good effects on these casinos. Eventually!

PS: Nothing statutory ever about free odds in MD, pretty sure. 3x4x5x is a good sign, you know Charles Town was 2x and stayed there at first, without the competition. In areas of PA 10x is getting more common, it's at least one thing that tells when it comes to competition.

Finally checked this place out last week.

Very impressive from the outside. Inside, the gambling area was a disappointment to me, hitting me with the impression that "it's just a big box." Admittedly, there's no way to get lost in there, a problem I have had with some other casinos.

During mid-day the minimums were plenty high as others have noted, $25 all over the place. Earlier in the morning some $15 tables could be found, disappearing by around noon. A UTH table was $15 minimum, yeah, that works for me ... not!

Didn't see any VP paytables that were worth a damn. This meant the only thing I wanted to play was Craps, and I gave them a couple of short sessions of that. I can only comment on those dealers; nice enough I suppose, one boxman was somewhat of a jerk, most others competent and unobjectionable. The most polite and friendly folk in that crowd were the pit bosses!

3x4x5x though I was only playing it 1x when the min was $25 [I bet $30 on free odds for 5 and 9]. Field paid double on 2/12. Buy bets were charged the commission "up front". Middle table bets were $5 minimum.

I'd say clientele was something close to majority Asian, with Af/Ams represented pretty well too, especially at the Craps tables [and as employees]. I am not qualified to say for sure, but of the Asians I would say most seemed to be from Philippines, Malaysia, Indonesia ??? ... that sort of thing. The question marks mean I am not sure, just got that impression. White patrons were the minority here, but not to the extent anyone seemed out of place.

Live! casino near Baltimore I notice is still claiming to be top dog in revenue. If so I saw no evidence MGM felt any pressure to be more competitive; both places seem to be getting the traffic they want without feeling a drain if you ask me. The table minimums show that.

Quote: odiousgambit

Live! casino near Baltimore I notice is still claiming to be top dog in revenue.

not according to the Washington Post.

Approaching 1year anniversary, MGM National Harbor still leads casino revenue:
https://wtop.com/business-finance/2017/12/mgm-approaches-anniversary-leads-casino-revenue/