Sands PA - Review
August 8th, 2010 at 5:44:14 PM
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On a spur of the moment, my wife, a friend, and I, went to the Sands for the day. We all play poker in poker leagues, so our plan was to play poker for several hours, then see what else we could play.
We got there at 10:30. My wife prefers to valet, but it's $7, while the self-parking garage is free. The garage does not have enough signs to indicate which direction is additional parking, which is the exit, and definitely needs more yeild and/or stop signs. SEVERAL times she had to jam on the breaks.
But we found a spot relatively quickly, near the entrance.
First stop was getting a player card. There was only 3 people ahead of us, with two clerks. Strange arrangement with the ropes & stantions. There was an aisle between the counter and the queue area. So if the first person on line isn't paying attention, and you're really dumb or acting dumb, it's easy to cut in line. That didn't happen, but I could see the possibility. In less than 5 minutes we had our cards.
Next stop, the rest rooms. That mens room had, I think, 3 sinks on each side, 4 stalls and 5 urinals, beyond them. There were NO wall mounted towel dispensers. Instead, on each counter, there was a pop-up towel dispenser, between the sinks. These were about the size of a typical Kleenex dispenser, complete with a pewter dispenser cover. 2 of the 4 towel dispensers were empty.
Next, we went right to the poker room and signed up. So I don't know what the early table minimums are at the other tables.
Then we went to the cage to get chips. Our friend was there last week and knew that you can't buy-in at the poker tables. That's not an unusual rule, but the Sands take it one step further. You can't re-buy at the table either.
So although I normally but in for $120, I bought an extra $100 in greens and kept them in my pocket.
We got back to the poker room just as they were opening a new $1/$2 table. Perfect timing since I prefer sitting at new tables.
I then found out why you can't buy in at the table: There is no cash drop slot on the poker tables! However, there IS a small, rake trap door slot:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/poker_rake_slot.png (That's a screen shop from PokerStars. But it shows what I'm talking about.)
The rack is full on whites, yellows, and reds. Just a couple greens. The yellows are $2, and do not play. They are marked "Poker Rake Chip." The maximum rake is $5, plus $1 for the bas beat. Since you can't buy-in from the dealer, the entire rack (except greens) is destined to eventually go into the rake drop slot or bad beat bucket.
They swipe the players cards at the table, and the dealer punches buttons to indicate a player is absent and is missing hands. It's the same system I've seen at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun.
The Sands not only allows poker players to eat at the tables, and has waitress service, but one of the buttons on the dealer's card swipe control panel, is to alert the food waitress that people want to order. Cool. Around 12:45, we had the dealer hit the food button.
About 45 minutes later, and still no waitress, we started to ask about it. A drink waitress just showed up, so we told her, and she said she would let them know. 20 minutes later when she returned, she said she did let them know.
Finally, sat about 3:00, I call over a floorman to ask about the food service. He quickly tells us that the food waitress didn't show up today. OK. It's a new place, there are staffing problems, etc. But shouldn't somebody have noticed our food light was on and to come over to us? Or simply tell the dealers that there's no food waitress so they can pass the word? Whatever.
A short time later, after playing thru the blinds, my wife goes to get some food. Two hands later, I also have played thru, so I go too.
Near the poker room is a full service restaurant, and the food court. The food court is rather long and narrow, with all the restaurants on the left side of the room, and a blank wall on the right, with some seating in between, and another set of restrooms at the far end. This mens room had the same number of stalls and urinals, but ALL FOUR of the towel dispensers was empty!
The odd thing was, all of the restaurants had a rope & stantion for the line, but ALL of them worked from right to left. I.E. If you're walking in to the food court and see something you want, you have to walk to the end of that counter to the 'Enter Here' spot. Since this was about 3:30, the lines were very short, and many people went in the wrong end. This caused problems at the pizzeria where I was, as well as at the Chinese restaurant where my wife was.
I ordered a stuffed slice. The girl took it off the display, put it on a plate, and put it on the counter behind her. I figure one of the cooks will then put it in the oven. So I proceeded to the cashier, told the cashier what I ordered, paid for it, and started to wait for it. It's at this point that I notice that it's still sitting in the same spot. I'm patient so I wait as the slice sits there. Now I'm curious to know how long it's gonna sit there, so I don't say anything. Finally after another two minutes, the original girl takes it and puts it under the original counter. She quickly helps another customer, and takes my slice out. It was in the oven less than 15 seconds, and brings it right to me. I'm thinking, "Swell. Microwaved pizza." But although the contents was hot, the crust wasn't too hot, and was crunchy the way it's supposed to be. I.E. Not microwaved. Curious. The slice was rather good, but the little cup of sauce was thin and runny.
I get back to poker and am playing a while when my wife finally returns, and brings her tray of food with her. Then she starts botching about the stupid lines and lousy service. I don't know more details.
Since we were planning on leaving at 5:00, at about 4:30, I'm up about $330, so I decide it's time to look around the rest of the casino.
I went to a different mens room. It was at this time that I realized that ALL of the restrooms are set back from the main room. It was kinda the way they are at a shopping mall, where you walk down a narrow corridor to get to them. Unlike a mall, the corridor was narrow, but it was still odd.
Thinking I'll just play a little slots, I cashed out. The cashier was VERY nervous. She counted my chips with a supervisor watching. It was $549, so I reached into my wallet for $1. That kinda threw her, as she then counted again, TWICE, then took the $550 out of the drawer, counted it, counted the chips AGAIN, then paid me. As she paid me, she said that she was nervous because it was a lot of money. I wanted to ask her if it was her first hour in the cage, but decided not to bother.
Note: There was no ropes & stantions for a a queue at the cage, but there wasn't a line either.
I then walked around and started to notice the decor. The ceiling was unfinished. All the beams and ductwork was exposed. And there wasn't any decorations covering the columns that extended from the floor to the ceiling. It took me a while to figure out that this was the intented look, since the Sands was build in an abandoned steel mill.
With out new club membership, we got $5 free slot play. The only slots I even bother playing are the 1¢ or 5¢, 50 or 100 hand video poker. But I couldn't find it, so I checked out the table games.
There was an entire pit of BJ that was not open. Several Asian games were not open either. The BJ that was open was at least $15, with no available seats. There were two craps tables in a four table pit. They were jammed, but with a little patience, I got a space. I realized why they were jammed: They are designed for 12 people. I only figured that out when I saw the place bets areas jammed with chips - four stacks in an area big enough for 3 with a little wiggle room.
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Dealer errors.
Because this is a hot topic in other threads, I thought I'd relay my findings:
At poker, I received incorrect change once. Only an extra dollar, but a buck is a buck. I was the small blind. I had a $5 out for it. A bunch of limpers for $2, so I called. The big blind raised it, then there was another raise. A bunch of folders, and I folded. My red chip was still out there, so the dealer gave me change - $4, because the small blind is only $1. He didn't realize that I had called the $2 before the big blind raised.
In another hand the other player showed his trips, then the dealer pulls in it announcing "three tens," then I turn over my flush. She started at it for several seconds. I think she was about to muck them when I said "flush". She THEN mucked the tens and gave me the pot.
Craps: Because the chips in the place bet area was so tight, and the rookie dealers, it was confusing whose chips were whose. Right before I was ready to leave, the player to my left, asked about his five. I mentioned that the $15 five in my spot is NOT mine. I was only betting the 6/8. The dealer said it was somebody else's. Two rolls later, I'm ready to leave. The shooter had hit a 6. I told the dealer to take me down and color up. The next think I see, he takes down the 6/8 AND THE FIVE, and slides them, with my extra chips, to the boxman. I say nothing, as the boxman takes his sweet time counting the chips. It was only $136, but it took THREE rolls!
We got there at 10:30. My wife prefers to valet, but it's $7, while the self-parking garage is free. The garage does not have enough signs to indicate which direction is additional parking, which is the exit, and definitely needs more yeild and/or stop signs. SEVERAL times she had to jam on the breaks.
But we found a spot relatively quickly, near the entrance.
First stop was getting a player card. There was only 3 people ahead of us, with two clerks. Strange arrangement with the ropes & stantions. There was an aisle between the counter and the queue area. So if the first person on line isn't paying attention, and you're really dumb or acting dumb, it's easy to cut in line. That didn't happen, but I could see the possibility. In less than 5 minutes we had our cards.
Next stop, the rest rooms. That mens room had, I think, 3 sinks on each side, 4 stalls and 5 urinals, beyond them. There were NO wall mounted towel dispensers. Instead, on each counter, there was a pop-up towel dispenser, between the sinks. These were about the size of a typical Kleenex dispenser, complete with a pewter dispenser cover. 2 of the 4 towel dispensers were empty.
Next, we went right to the poker room and signed up. So I don't know what the early table minimums are at the other tables.
Then we went to the cage to get chips. Our friend was there last week and knew that you can't buy-in at the poker tables. That's not an unusual rule, but the Sands take it one step further. You can't re-buy at the table either.
So although I normally but in for $120, I bought an extra $100 in greens and kept them in my pocket.
We got back to the poker room just as they were opening a new $1/$2 table. Perfect timing since I prefer sitting at new tables.
I then found out why you can't buy in at the table: There is no cash drop slot on the poker tables! However, there IS a small, rake trap door slot:
Admin note: removed image www.djteddybear.com/images/poker_rake_slot.png (That's a screen shop from PokerStars. But it shows what I'm talking about.)
The rack is full on whites, yellows, and reds. Just a couple greens. The yellows are $2, and do not play. They are marked "Poker Rake Chip." The maximum rake is $5, plus $1 for the bas beat. Since you can't buy-in from the dealer, the entire rack (except greens) is destined to eventually go into the rake drop slot or bad beat bucket.
They swipe the players cards at the table, and the dealer punches buttons to indicate a player is absent and is missing hands. It's the same system I've seen at Foxwoods and Mohegan Sun.
The Sands not only allows poker players to eat at the tables, and has waitress service, but one of the buttons on the dealer's card swipe control panel, is to alert the food waitress that people want to order. Cool. Around 12:45, we had the dealer hit the food button.
About 45 minutes later, and still no waitress, we started to ask about it. A drink waitress just showed up, so we told her, and she said she would let them know. 20 minutes later when she returned, she said she did let them know.
Finally, sat about 3:00, I call over a floorman to ask about the food service. He quickly tells us that the food waitress didn't show up today. OK. It's a new place, there are staffing problems, etc. But shouldn't somebody have noticed our food light was on and to come over to us? Or simply tell the dealers that there's no food waitress so they can pass the word? Whatever.
A short time later, after playing thru the blinds, my wife goes to get some food. Two hands later, I also have played thru, so I go too.
Near the poker room is a full service restaurant, and the food court. The food court is rather long and narrow, with all the restaurants on the left side of the room, and a blank wall on the right, with some seating in between, and another set of restrooms at the far end. This mens room had the same number of stalls and urinals, but ALL FOUR of the towel dispensers was empty!
The odd thing was, all of the restaurants had a rope & stantion for the line, but ALL of them worked from right to left. I.E. If you're walking in to the food court and see something you want, you have to walk to the end of that counter to the 'Enter Here' spot. Since this was about 3:30, the lines were very short, and many people went in the wrong end. This caused problems at the pizzeria where I was, as well as at the Chinese restaurant where my wife was.
I ordered a stuffed slice. The girl took it off the display, put it on a plate, and put it on the counter behind her. I figure one of the cooks will then put it in the oven. So I proceeded to the cashier, told the cashier what I ordered, paid for it, and started to wait for it. It's at this point that I notice that it's still sitting in the same spot. I'm patient so I wait as the slice sits there. Now I'm curious to know how long it's gonna sit there, so I don't say anything. Finally after another two minutes, the original girl takes it and puts it under the original counter. She quickly helps another customer, and takes my slice out. It was in the oven less than 15 seconds, and brings it right to me. I'm thinking, "Swell. Microwaved pizza." But although the contents was hot, the crust wasn't too hot, and was crunchy the way it's supposed to be. I.E. Not microwaved. Curious. The slice was rather good, but the little cup of sauce was thin and runny.
I get back to poker and am playing a while when my wife finally returns, and brings her tray of food with her. Then she starts botching about the stupid lines and lousy service. I don't know more details.
Since we were planning on leaving at 5:00, at about 4:30, I'm up about $330, so I decide it's time to look around the rest of the casino.
I went to a different mens room. It was at this time that I realized that ALL of the restrooms are set back from the main room. It was kinda the way they are at a shopping mall, where you walk down a narrow corridor to get to them. Unlike a mall, the corridor was narrow, but it was still odd.
Thinking I'll just play a little slots, I cashed out. The cashier was VERY nervous. She counted my chips with a supervisor watching. It was $549, so I reached into my wallet for $1. That kinda threw her, as she then counted again, TWICE, then took the $550 out of the drawer, counted it, counted the chips AGAIN, then paid me. As she paid me, she said that she was nervous because it was a lot of money. I wanted to ask her if it was her first hour in the cage, but decided not to bother.
Note: There was no ropes & stantions for a a queue at the cage, but there wasn't a line either.
I then walked around and started to notice the decor. The ceiling was unfinished. All the beams and ductwork was exposed. And there wasn't any decorations covering the columns that extended from the floor to the ceiling. It took me a while to figure out that this was the intented look, since the Sands was build in an abandoned steel mill.
With out new club membership, we got $5 free slot play. The only slots I even bother playing are the 1¢ or 5¢, 50 or 100 hand video poker. But I couldn't find it, so I checked out the table games.
There was an entire pit of BJ that was not open. Several Asian games were not open either. The BJ that was open was at least $15, with no available seats. There were two craps tables in a four table pit. They were jammed, but with a little patience, I got a space. I realized why they were jammed: They are designed for 12 people. I only figured that out when I saw the place bets areas jammed with chips - four stacks in an area big enough for 3 with a little wiggle room.
---
Dealer errors.
Because this is a hot topic in other threads, I thought I'd relay my findings:
At poker, I received incorrect change once. Only an extra dollar, but a buck is a buck. I was the small blind. I had a $5 out for it. A bunch of limpers for $2, so I called. The big blind raised it, then there was another raise. A bunch of folders, and I folded. My red chip was still out there, so the dealer gave me change - $4, because the small blind is only $1. He didn't realize that I had called the $2 before the big blind raised.
In another hand the other player showed his trips, then the dealer pulls in it announcing "three tens," then I turn over my flush. She started at it for several seconds. I think she was about to muck them when I said "flush". She THEN mucked the tens and gave me the pot.
Craps: Because the chips in the place bet area was so tight, and the rookie dealers, it was confusing whose chips were whose. Right before I was ready to leave, the player to my left, asked about his five. I mentioned that the $15 five in my spot is NOT mine. I was only betting the 6/8. The dealer said it was somebody else's. Two rolls later, I'm ready to leave. The shooter had hit a 6. I told the dealer to take me down and color up. The next think I see, he takes down the 6/8 AND THE FIVE, and slides them, with my extra chips, to the boxman. I say nothing, as the boxman takes his sweet time counting the chips. It was only $136, but it took THREE rolls!
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 17th, 2010 at 1:27:52 PM
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I meant to update this yeaterday....
I went there again this past Sunday.
I got there at about 10:15. There wasn't an open seat at poker, so I had a chance to walk around.
ALL of the tables that were open (about 30% of them), were at $15 or higher. Most were full. Since my other game is craps, I took particular notice of the craps tables. Only one table, at $15, and it was packed.
A new $1/$2 poker table opened shortly after I got there. I had to leave at 12:45 to get to the finals that my peague was having at 2:00. But in those 3 hours, I slowly bled my chips. Most pots got a $10 raise pre-flop. The only pots I won were not raised pre-flop. Of those 7 pots, none of them for more than $10. With all that pre-flop raising, I threw away a lot of jumk that I would have called $2, and would have won, including one four of a kind.
I was down about $170, getting ready to lick my wounds and leave, when I got a Kd Td, in the big blind, with no raise. The flop was Ad, Kc, 7d. Nice. Second pair, and nut flush draw. I and another guy checked. One of the aggressive guys made it $15. I and the other guy called. Turn was Jd. Bingo. Not only had I hit my nut flush, but I was on a Royal draw, and maybe my opponent made a wheel or two pair. I checked, another guy checked, he bet $30. I pushed all in for $57. The other guy folded. The bettor thought for a long time before calling. I showed my hand, he showed Qd, Tc. He DID make his wheel, but called since he was on a 2nd nut flush and Royal draw. Too bad he was drawing dead!
I was now down only $4, and got the hell out of there! Sweet!
I didn't eat anything, and nobody at my table called for the food waitress, so I don't know if they got that snag fixed.
As I mentioned above, they do not sell chips out of the rack in the poker room. If you need to reload, you have to go to the cage, or call for a Chip Runner. Several times someone at my table needed a chip runner. The runners at the time were all dealers that were not assigned to tables yet. (What the heck is THAT all about?) But, on the subject of tips, you'd think the runner would return with $5 in whites, with the rest in reds, to make tipping simple. Nope. The three times I watched, it was all red.
I forgot to mention above, but last week the place was COLD. Several people mentioned that it's always cold there. I wished I had brought a jacket, and was thankful that at last minute I put on long pants. This week I brought my jacket, but it stayed on the back of my chair. It was much warmer.
I don't know if they adjusted it or not, but I was on the opposide end of the poker room this time - closer to the food court. Maybe the heat of the restaurants was warming that end of the poker room....
I went there again this past Sunday.
I got there at about 10:15. There wasn't an open seat at poker, so I had a chance to walk around.
ALL of the tables that were open (about 30% of them), were at $15 or higher. Most were full. Since my other game is craps, I took particular notice of the craps tables. Only one table, at $15, and it was packed.
A new $1/$2 poker table opened shortly after I got there. I had to leave at 12:45 to get to the finals that my peague was having at 2:00. But in those 3 hours, I slowly bled my chips. Most pots got a $10 raise pre-flop. The only pots I won were not raised pre-flop. Of those 7 pots, none of them for more than $10. With all that pre-flop raising, I threw away a lot of jumk that I would have called $2, and would have won, including one four of a kind.
I was down about $170, getting ready to lick my wounds and leave, when I got a Kd Td, in the big blind, with no raise. The flop was Ad, Kc, 7d. Nice. Second pair, and nut flush draw. I and another guy checked. One of the aggressive guys made it $15. I and the other guy called. Turn was Jd. Bingo. Not only had I hit my nut flush, but I was on a Royal draw, and maybe my opponent made a wheel or two pair. I checked, another guy checked, he bet $30. I pushed all in for $57. The other guy folded. The bettor thought for a long time before calling. I showed my hand, he showed Qd, Tc. He DID make his wheel, but called since he was on a 2nd nut flush and Royal draw. Too bad he was drawing dead!
I was now down only $4, and got the hell out of there! Sweet!
I didn't eat anything, and nobody at my table called for the food waitress, so I don't know if they got that snag fixed.
As I mentioned above, they do not sell chips out of the rack in the poker room. If you need to reload, you have to go to the cage, or call for a Chip Runner. Several times someone at my table needed a chip runner. The runners at the time were all dealers that were not assigned to tables yet. (What the heck is THAT all about?) But, on the subject of tips, you'd think the runner would return with $5 in whites, with the rest in reds, to make tipping simple. Nope. The three times I watched, it was all red.
I forgot to mention above, but last week the place was COLD. Several people mentioned that it's always cold there. I wished I had brought a jacket, and was thankful that at last minute I put on long pants. This week I brought my jacket, but it stayed on the back of my chair. It was much warmer.
I don't know if they adjusted it or not, but I was on the opposide end of the poker room this time - closer to the food court. Maybe the heat of the restaurants was warming that end of the poker room....
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 17th, 2010 at 1:42:07 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBear
As I mentioned above, they do not sell chips out of the rack in the poker room. If you need to reload, you have to go to the cage, or call for a Chip Runner. Several times someone at my table needed a chip runner. The runners at the time were all dealers that were not assigned to tables yet. (What the heck is THAT all about?) But, on the subject of tips, you'd think the runner would return with $5 in whites, with the rest in reds, to make tipping simple. Nope. The three times I watched, it was all red.
Did you notice if they allowed cash to be on the tables in lieu of chips? At Rivers in Pittsburgh they allow 100 dollar bills to be on the table. You must do your initial buy-in at the cage for chips, but after that, you can either buy from the dealer or buy off another player. The only other place I've seen that has been in Tunica, and I thought there was some sort of federal law that does not allow cash to play anymore. Obviously, I'm mistaken.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
August 17th, 2010 at 2:54:33 PM
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Quote: TiltpoulDid you notice if they allowed cash to be on the tables in lieu of chips? At Rivers in Pittsburgh they allow 100 dollar bills to be on the table. You must do your initial buy-in at the cage for chips, but after that, you can either buy from the dealer or buy off another player. The only other place I've seen that has been in Tunica, and I thought there was some sort of federal law that does not allow cash to play anymore. Obviously, I'm mistaken.
I used to do that all the time at Trop in AC, but I haven't played there in a while. Of course, in the no-limit game, once the cash was on the table it couldn't be taken off the table.
August 17th, 2010 at 5:11:42 PM
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Sheeeese-sounds like the place is being run by a bunch of rejects from the idiot farm. When will places learn that clean and stocked restrooms might not be noticed but ones that aren't WILL get noticed. That a $5 table full of players is more profiable than an empty table. And that casinos are in the s-e-r-v-i-c-e industry.
I sometimes think some casino managers think it is still 1978, with gambling just in NV/AC. But ironically, we always hear how service was better then.
I sometimes think some casino managers think it is still 1978, with gambling just in NV/AC. But ironically, we always hear how service was better then.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
August 17th, 2010 at 9:06:53 PM
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Cash does NOT play. The only thing cash on the table does, is help catch the eye of the chip runner. As I said, you can't buy-in or re-load at the poker table.Quote: TiltpoulDid you notice if they allowed cash to be on the tables in lieu of chips?
At one point, a guy at the table had two reds, and gave $100 to a runner. The dealer gave him a button with '100' on it. He said that it's like an IOU, and it doesn't play. Apparently the player didn't understand that. There was a raise to $10 pre-flop and he called. On the flop, there was a bet, and he folded. I was next to act, but before acting, I said "Isn't he all-in?" The dealer explained it to him again, and offered him his cards back. He ended up having a losing hand, but I'm wondering if there would have been a problem if he won the pot.
I was told that the reason cash doesn't play is because there is no cash drop slot on the poker tables.
The reason they do this is because of the rake. In other casinos, the rake is returned to the rack. Here, the rake is dropped in the rake slot. So, to minimize requests for a re-fill, the entire rack is filled with $1, $2 chips, but just a few $5 chips - all destined to go into the drop. If they allowed buy-ins, they'd need to put a lot more $5 chips in the rack, and would need to get fills all day long.
Elsewhere in the casino, you CAN buy-in at the tables, but because people color-up when leaving, the fill situation isn't bad.
For the record, unless I'm mistaken, cash doesn't play anywhere in A.C. I know that it DOES play at Foxwoods, but not at Mohegan Sun.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 17th, 2010 at 9:16:02 PM
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Given how the reviews and my personal observations of the two PA casinos I observed show a LOT of similarities, I'm shocked that the PA gaming commission (or whatever they may have) has not set standard rules regarding this.
On a completely unrelated side note, I was playing poker yesterday at Hollywood Casino down in Lawrenceburg, IN. They now have two plaquards, one orange that says ALL-IN and the other black that says CALL. As soon as someone announces an ALL-IN the dealer must put the plaquard by that person. The first to CALL gets the black card. Oddly enough, they only have one of each, so if two players go ALL-IN on the same hand, the first one gets the plaquard. They say it is for the cameras, although most of the dealers agree it is the stupidest thing ever, especially since there is only one plaquard at each table.
On a completely unrelated side note, I was playing poker yesterday at Hollywood Casino down in Lawrenceburg, IN. They now have two plaquards, one orange that says ALL-IN and the other black that says CALL. As soon as someone announces an ALL-IN the dealer must put the plaquard by that person. The first to CALL gets the black card. Oddly enough, they only have one of each, so if two players go ALL-IN on the same hand, the first one gets the plaquard. They say it is for the cameras, although most of the dealers agree it is the stupidest thing ever, especially since there is only one plaquard at each table.
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
August 23rd, 2010 at 9:31:18 AM
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The All-In button is rather stupid. The first time I saw it was at Mohegan Sun at a sit & go. I was rather upset that it had been used every time someone went all-in, except the two times that *I* was all-in. Go figure.
More info about Sands. I went there again yesterday. This weekly habit is probably over because I lost almost $500 - all of it at poker. And it wasn't because I was playing badly, I just kept getting unlucky.
It was a LOT warmer yesterday than in prior weeks. I guess they got the HVAC settings right, finally.
There was a food runner. At about 3:30 I asked the dealer to press the food button. The runner/waitress arrived in less than 10 minutes. Although the food comes from a restaurant right next to the poker room, they use a diverse/limited menu for the poker room. I got a cheeseburger with fries. The wife got spring rolls. The guy next to me also got a cheeseburger. I offered her my player card when I ordered, but she said she'd take that when the food came.
The food took forever. Or so it seemed. Maybe 20 minutes. It arrived on real plates with a room-serivce type lid to keep it warm.
The total was $20.xx. The guy next to me and I handed her our cards. I was going to give her $20 for the remainder because I KNEW I didn't have $20 in credit yet, but she was gone in an instant.
She came back a couple minutes later saying I only had $3.xx on the card. The guy next to me had enough, so he signed and was done. I signed, give her $20 and before I could say "Keep the change" she was gone. She returned with the change a couple minutes later. She made a total of four trips, when she could have made two. Whatever. The last trip wasn't a total waste. Although I told her to keep the change when she returned with it, that prompted the guy next to me to remember to tip her.
My burger was well done even though I asked for medium. No big deal, it was still good. The wife liked her food too.
The Sands (and maybe all of PA) uses a very strange rule when cards are exposed during the deal.
At other casinos, if one card is exposed during the deal, the deal continues around, and the exposed card is swapped with the burn card. This maintains the integrity of the shuffle. I.E. With the exception of that one card, every player got the cards they should have gotten, and the board is also the cards that would have come out.
At the Sands, if a card is exposed, it goes into the muck, and the player whose card it was gets the very next card. Every player after him now has cards that were meant for someone else, the last player gets the intended burn card, and the next card becomes the burn so the cards that end up on the board are not the intended cards either.
Confusing? The first method maintains the integrity of the shuffle as much as possible, while the second does not.
In both cases, if a second card is exposed, it's a misdeal.
During my 7 hours there, only one dealer exposed cards. But here's the thing. After he exposed a card, he immediately exposed another card, creating a misdeal situation. He then explained the rule, and admitted that he doesn't like the rule. The players all agreed that it's a stupid rule and agreed with his decision to deliberately expose a second card for the misdeal. Funny thing was, about 3 hands later, he exposed another card, and did the misdeal again, but didn't need to explain it.
I also had a little walking around time and took notice of a couple things:
The craps table does not have a Big 6/8. There's nothing in those corners to replace it.
The field bet pays double for 2 and 12.
In Blackjack the dealer stands on all 17s.
The Big Six Wheel of Fortune has, unless my quick count was wrong, 50 stops. The joker/logo spots pay 45. According to https://wizardofodds.com/bigsix, the standard is 54 stops, with the joker/logo paying 40.
More info about Sands. I went there again yesterday. This weekly habit is probably over because I lost almost $500 - all of it at poker. And it wasn't because I was playing badly, I just kept getting unlucky.
It was a LOT warmer yesterday than in prior weeks. I guess they got the HVAC settings right, finally.
There was a food runner. At about 3:30 I asked the dealer to press the food button. The runner/waitress arrived in less than 10 minutes. Although the food comes from a restaurant right next to the poker room, they use a diverse/limited menu for the poker room. I got a cheeseburger with fries. The wife got spring rolls. The guy next to me also got a cheeseburger. I offered her my player card when I ordered, but she said she'd take that when the food came.
The food took forever. Or so it seemed. Maybe 20 minutes. It arrived on real plates with a room-serivce type lid to keep it warm.
The total was $20.xx. The guy next to me and I handed her our cards. I was going to give her $20 for the remainder because I KNEW I didn't have $20 in credit yet, but she was gone in an instant.
She came back a couple minutes later saying I only had $3.xx on the card. The guy next to me had enough, so he signed and was done. I signed, give her $20 and before I could say "Keep the change" she was gone. She returned with the change a couple minutes later. She made a total of four trips, when she could have made two. Whatever. The last trip wasn't a total waste. Although I told her to keep the change when she returned with it, that prompted the guy next to me to remember to tip her.
My burger was well done even though I asked for medium. No big deal, it was still good. The wife liked her food too.
The Sands (and maybe all of PA) uses a very strange rule when cards are exposed during the deal.
At other casinos, if one card is exposed during the deal, the deal continues around, and the exposed card is swapped with the burn card. This maintains the integrity of the shuffle. I.E. With the exception of that one card, every player got the cards they should have gotten, and the board is also the cards that would have come out.
At the Sands, if a card is exposed, it goes into the muck, and the player whose card it was gets the very next card. Every player after him now has cards that were meant for someone else, the last player gets the intended burn card, and the next card becomes the burn so the cards that end up on the board are not the intended cards either.
Confusing? The first method maintains the integrity of the shuffle as much as possible, while the second does not.
In both cases, if a second card is exposed, it's a misdeal.
During my 7 hours there, only one dealer exposed cards. But here's the thing. After he exposed a card, he immediately exposed another card, creating a misdeal situation. He then explained the rule, and admitted that he doesn't like the rule. The players all agreed that it's a stupid rule and agreed with his decision to deliberately expose a second card for the misdeal. Funny thing was, about 3 hands later, he exposed another card, and did the misdeal again, but didn't need to explain it.
I also had a little walking around time and took notice of a couple things:
The craps table does not have a Big 6/8. There's nothing in those corners to replace it.
The field bet pays double for 2 and 12.
In Blackjack the dealer stands on all 17s.
The Big Six Wheel of Fortune has, unless my quick count was wrong, 50 stops. The joker/logo spots pay 45. According to https://wizardofodds.com/bigsix, the standard is 54 stops, with the joker/logo paying 40.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 23rd, 2010 at 2:22:50 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearThe Sands (and maybe all of PA) uses a very strange rule when cards are exposed during the deal.
At other casinos, if one card is exposed during the deal, the deal continues around, and the exposed card is swapped with the burn card. This maintains the integrity of the shuffle. I.E. With the exception of that one card, every player got the cards they should have gotten, and the board is also the cards that would have come out.
At the Sands, if a card is exposed, it goes into the muck, and the player whose card it was gets the very next card. Every player after him now has cards that were meant for someone else, the last player gets the intended burn card, and the next card becomes the burn so the cards that end up on the board are not the intended cards either.
Confusing? The first method maintains the integrity of the shuffle as much as possible, while the second does not.
In both cases, if a second card is exposed, it's a misdeal.
That IS a first. I think as a player I might try to purposefully expose another card so to create a misdeal... reason being, despite the fact that the rule is the house rule, I can see them NOT paying a bad beat in the event that what you described happens. The state could argue the dealer is using collusion (I know a shuffler, it's near impossible, right? but they'll find a way...).
"One out of every four people are [morons]"- Kyle, South Park
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:32:46 PM
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Quote: TiltpoulThat IS a first. I think as a player I might try to purposefully expose another card so to create a misdeal... reason being, despite the fact that the rule is the house rule, I can see them NOT paying a bad beat in the event that what you described happens. The state could argue the dealer is using collusion (I know a shuffler, it's near impossible, right? but they'll find a way...).
Ha...this reminded me of an intersting story that happened at the BJ table on my recent cruise. THe table was full and the dealer had an Face card up. He quickly checked his hole card in the table mirror, then thinking he had a BJ, flipped over a 4...for a hard 14 total. Appearantly the little piece on the table where the hole card is pushed against was broken, and when he checked the mirror his card was pushed too far over. Anyway, I assumed that he would burn the card and take another, but he didn't. He let the entire table play out their hand knowing he had a hard 14. That said, there wasn't a lot of large chips on the table, and the entire cruise casino was MUCH more laid back than your typical casino. I assume they give dealers a little leeway on a ship to keep all the passengers having fun. Plus most of the players were so awful I'm sure they quickly gave their winnings back to the house.
After that hand, we all had to empty the table of our chips while they quickly brought over another table-top, popped the broken one off and put a new one down. THey got it up and runnning in about 20 seconds.
August 23rd, 2010 at 5:45:07 PM
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The dealer DID immediately expose a second card, but the Bad Beat? Makes me say 'Hmmm....'Quote: TiltpoulThat IS a first. I think as a player I might try to purposefully expose another card so to create a misdeal... reason being, despite the fact that the rule is the house rule, I can see them NOT paying a bad beat in the event that what you described happens. The state could argue the dealer is using collusion (I know a shuffler, it's near impossible, right? but they'll find a way...).
I've seen similar good decisions in regular casinos. It's an awfully small price to pay for good P.R. Plus, you're right. They get it back quick enough.Quote: ruascottHe let the entire table play out their hand knowing he had a hard 14. ... Plus most of the players were so awful I'm sure they quickly gave their winnings back to the house.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 23rd, 2010 at 7:18:48 PM
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These are situations where it pays to know the Wizard's tables. I was playing recently and the dealer misdealed (forgot a spot) and the (smart) pit boss let us play it out or pull our bets back. The dealer had a nine showing and I had 18. I pulled my bet back, and everyone was shocked, but then she flipped over 19 ...Quote: ruascottHa...this reminded me of an intersting story that happened at the BJ table on my recent cruise. THe table was full and the dealer had an Face card up. He quickly checked his hole card in the table mirror, then thinking he had a BJ, flipped over a 4...for a hard 14 total. Appearantly the little piece on the table where the hole card is pushed against was broken, and when he checked the mirror his card was pushed too far over. Anyway, I assumed that he would burn the card and take another, but he didn't. He let the entire table play out their hand knowing he had a hard 14. That said, there wasn't a lot of large chips on the table, and the entire cruise casino was MUCH more laid back than your typical casino. I assume they give dealers a little leeway on a ship to keep all the passengers having fun. Plus most of the players were so awful I'm sure they quickly gave their winnings back to the house.
After that hand, we all had to empty the table of our chips while they quickly brought over another table-top, popped the broken one off and put a new one down. THey got it up and runnning in about 20 seconds.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
August 24th, 2010 at 5:48:26 AM
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Hell, you don't need the Wizard's tables for that. The beginer's stupid/simple strategy is 'assume the dealer has a ten-value card'. That being the case, why were they shocked when you pulled back? People are idiots sometimes.Quote: teddysThese are situations where it pays to know the Wizard's tables. I was playing recently and the dealer misdealed (forgot a spot) and the (smart) pit boss let us play it out or pull our bets back. The dealer had a nine showing and I had 18. I pulled my bet back, and everyone was shocked, but then she flipped over 19 ...
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
August 24th, 2010 at 8:53:39 AM
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They think 18 is a good hand for some reason. As has been shown previously on this board, hard 18 is a net loser overall.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
January 2nd, 2011 at 6:26:41 AM
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I was at the Sands yesterday and noticed a couple little changes.
They expanded the poker room. FYI: It was never a 'room' and still isn't. It's merely an area on the main floor with a 3' tall wrought iron fence/wall around it. They got rid of a bunch of nearby slot machines and the 'room' is now "L" shaped. It went from 12 tables that were always full in the afternoon, to 23 tables. The busiest it got yesterday was 20 tables. One game was $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo. People reacted like they normally don't have that game, so I guess they are expanding the offerings too.
I asked. Tournaments will be coming some time in February.
The yellow $2 rake-only chips were gone.
The odd way they handle an exposed card has not changed. The one time it happened yesterday, the dealer did NOT deliberately expose a second card.
They expanded the poker room. FYI: It was never a 'room' and still isn't. It's merely an area on the main floor with a 3' tall wrought iron fence/wall around it. They got rid of a bunch of nearby slot machines and the 'room' is now "L" shaped. It went from 12 tables that were always full in the afternoon, to 23 tables. The busiest it got yesterday was 20 tables. One game was $4/$8 Omaha Hi-Lo. People reacted like they normally don't have that game, so I guess they are expanding the offerings too.
I asked. Tournaments will be coming some time in February.
Maybe there was a PA regulation that got changed. Now the Sands (like Mt Airy) allows re-buys at the table. The cash stays in the rack, and a runner comes by occasionally to get the cash and return chips to the rack.Quote: DJTeddyBearAs I mentioned above, they do not sell chips out of the rack in the poker room. If you need to reload, you have to go to the cage, or call for a Chip Runner.
The yellow $2 rake-only chips were gone.
The odd way they handle an exposed card has not changed. The one time it happened yesterday, the dealer did NOT deliberately expose a second card.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
January 6th, 2011 at 7:59:20 AM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearI was at the Sands yesterday and noticed a couple little changes.They expanded the poker room. FYI: It was never a 'room' and still isn't. It's merely an area on the main floor with a 3' tall wrought iron fence/wall around it. They got rid of a bunch of nearby slot machines and the 'room' is now "L" shaped. It went from 12 tables that were always full in the afternoon, to 23 tables.
The 12 poker tables had been the most profitable on a per table basis of any casino in PA. People were complaining about the long waits to get in a game. It was long overdue for them to add more tables.
==============================
Reposting Travel tips
The 300 room hotel at the casino is still under construction and is not scheduled to open until May 2011. The restaurants in the casino are not priced at a discount like the restaurants in Vegas. There are almost 60 hotels and motels in the Lehigh Valley, but these 4 are the only ones within a 5 mile drive of the Casino.
1) The hotel that is directly off the Interstate 78 exit to the casino is a Holiday Inn Express . It is 2.2 miles from the casino and opened in 2006. I wouldn't recommend it, as it is only about $10 cheaper than the other options, and it is very isolated.
Waffle House next door
Crossroads 550 yards, pizza & cheesesteaks, smoking at bar only
Beer Mussels local smoking bar 1/2 mile south in Hellertown
2) The Comfort Suites University at 1.4 miles is the closest hotel. It's about ten years old, and it is on a $2 city bus route from the casino called the loop . This has your best collection of restaurants and bars within a few blocks of the hotel. I would recommend this hotel as my first choice.
Within Walking Distance of Comfort Suites Hotel
Starter's Riverport Sport's Bar newest bar in the region (fairly expensive)
Tally Ho Tavern A classic bar with great burgers
Firehouse The Firehouse, is a bar located at the historic Engine House built in 1885.
JP Macgrady is an Irish bar where you can smoke.
Michael's steak sandwiches Philly steak's open until 9 PM or 10 PM
Lehigh Pizza open to midnight, or open to 2AM on weekends
Olive Branch Family Lebanese restaurant (entrees $11 to $15), closed Sun/Mon, open until 9PM
Nawab Indian Cuisine (entrees $11 to $18)
24 East asian fusion (entrees $14 to $25)
Hop Hing Chinese low quality but cheap
Wildflower Cafe & Gallery vegan cafe with music. New age flower children.
Godfrey Daniels is a non-alcoholic performance venue ($15 to $20)
The Blue Sky Cafe only for breakfast and lunch
Dunkin Donuts
Benner Street Restaurant & Bar is about a mile from the hotel, but for a good French county meal for relatively cheap, it is excellent 610.861.8181 (1028 Broadway Bethlehem, PA 18015) Mon-Fri 11:30am-9:00pm, Sat 4:00pm-11:00pm,Sun Closed
Wendy's and McDonald's.
3)The newest hotel is ' rel='nofollow' target='_blank'>http://bethlehem.place.hyatt.com/hyatt/hotels/place/index.jsp] Hyatt Place at 1.8 miles. It can be more expensive than the Comfort Suites on weekdays, but is about the same price on the weekends. It's on the opposite side of the river (known as Moravian Bethlehem), but is still on the bus route. Moravian era Bethlehem dates back to the 18th century and is very pretty, but nothing much is open after 10PM .
4) The considerably more expensive options are Historic Hotel Bethlehem (built 1922)
Restaurants in Moravian Area Bethlehem
Historic Hotel Bethlehem, 1741 on the Terrace 437 Main St., Bethlehem, PA 610-867-2200 (very $$$)
The Melting Pot 1 East Broad Street, Bethlehem, PA 484-241-4939 (very $$$)
Edge Restaurant 74 W. Broad St., Bethlehem, PA 610-814-0100 (very $$$)
Apollo Grill (a little less $$)
Starfish Brasserie (a little less $$)
Bethlehem BrewWorks569 Main Street Bethlehem, PA 18010
5) Sayre Mansion ultra expensive bed and breakfast only a few hundred yards from Comfort Suites
Other Hotel Options are all more than 5 miles away. One special mention is:
6) If you are driving back to New Jersey after a long night and you are just tired and don't want to spend a lot on a room, the most inexpensive hotel to crash at is 17.5 miles from the casino at the Phillipsburg Inn . Emphasis is on a place to stop on the drive home. It is pretty far away if you are returning to the casino the next day.
January 9th, 2011 at 3:01:45 PM
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Jan 30 to Feb 5 is Restaurant Week in Bethlehem where specials are being offered all week (including all restaurants in Sands Casino).
Loopers Bar and Grill is offering a special $20 meal. The Bar is a mile from the casino and you have the option to get there on The Loop shuttle service for $3 all day if you don't want to drive.
Loopers Bar and Grill is offering a special $20 meal. The Bar is a mile from the casino and you have the option to get there on The Loop shuttle service for $3 all day if you don't want to drive.
January 20th, 2011 at 10:56:02 AM
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Review of change in slot revenue in PA casinos
Table Revenue just began in fiscal year 2011 so it is not covered in this blog entry. The River's casino in Pittsburgh opened after the start of fiscal year 2010, and Sugar House casino in downtown Philadelphia did not open until fiscal year 2011, so a change cannot be noted.
Change in slot revenue from FY2010 to FY2011 for first half of the fiscal year (Western PA)
Change in slot revenue from FY2010 to FY2011 for first half of the fiscal year (Eastern PA)
With the indefinite delay of the second downtown Philadelphia casino, and only a few 500 machine mini-casinos on the drawing boards in places like Valley Forge conference center, and Reading off price shopping area, it might be safe to say that the PA gaming will stabilize by the end of the year 2012 at or near $3.0 billion (about equal to that of New Jersey).
Do you think that the state parliament will be happy with a level playing field for gaming, or will they try and keep growing the business through more liberal casino laws?
Table Revenue just began in fiscal year 2011 so it is not covered in this blog entry. The River's casino in Pittsburgh opened after the start of fiscal year 2010, and Sugar House casino in downtown Philadelphia did not open until fiscal year 2011, so a change cannot be noted.
Change in slot revenue from FY2010 to FY2011 for first half of the fiscal year (Western PA)
| The Meadows | -8.6% |
|---|---|
| Presque Isle | 7.0% |
| The Rivers | +30% (casino just opened at beginning of FY2010) |
Change in slot revenue from FY2010 to FY2011 for first half of the fiscal year (Eastern PA)
| Harrah's Chester Downs | -6.8% |
|---|---|
| Mount Airy | -2.1% |
| Mohegan Sun | 2.0% |
| Penn National | 5.5% |
| Parx | 9.5% |
| Sands Bethlehem | 16.6% |
| SugarHouse | N/A |
| State Total | 10.5% |
|---|
With the indefinite delay of the second downtown Philadelphia casino, and only a few 500 machine mini-casinos on the drawing boards in places like Valley Forge conference center, and Reading off price shopping area, it might be safe to say that the PA gaming will stabilize by the end of the year 2012 at or near $3.0 billion (about equal to that of New Jersey).
| First 6 months of FY2011 | Total | Slots ($M) | Table game |
|---|---|---|---|
| Eastern PA | |||
| Parx | $225 | $191 | $34 |
| Harrah's Chester Downs | $170 | $140 | $30 |
| Sands Bethlehem | $158 | $131 | $27 |
| Penn National | $138 | $123 | $15 |
| Mohegan Sun | $130 | $112 | $18 |
| Mount Airy | $94 | $74 | $19 |
| SugarHouse | $54 | $37 | $17 |
| Western PA | |||
| The Rivers | $151 | $125 | $26 |
| The Meadows | $141 | $126 | $15 |
| Presque Isle | $97 | $87 | $10 |
| Total | $1,359 | $1,146 | $212 |
Do you think that the state parliament will be happy with a level playing field for gaming, or will they try and keep growing the business through more liberal casino laws?
January 20th, 2011 at 11:22:06 AM
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Paco -
As always, good job on the research.
However, I think the numbers are meaningless until you have two full years of consistant gaming.
I.E. While most of those casinos have been open for years, now that table games have been added, the historical data becomes meaningless. After all, there are a lot of table games players that also throw a few bucks at slots, but wouldn't go to a slots-only casino. Conversly, there are a lot of regular customers of those casinos that have now shifted part of their bankroll to table games.
As always, good job on the research.
However, I think the numbers are meaningless until you have two full years of consistant gaming.
I.E. While most of those casinos have been open for years, now that table games have been added, the historical data becomes meaningless. After all, there are a lot of table games players that also throw a few bucks at slots, but wouldn't go to a slots-only casino. Conversly, there are a lot of regular customers of those casinos that have now shifted part of their bankroll to table games.
I invented a few casino games. Info:
http://www.DaveMillerGaming.com/ —————————————————————————————————————
Superstitions are silly, childish, irrational rituals, born out of fear of the unknown. But how much does it cost to knock on wood? 😁
January 20th, 2011 at 1:04:56 PM
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Quote: DJTeddyBearHowever, I think the numbers are meaningless until you have two full years of consistant gaming.
I am sort of making a WAG at where things will level off. PA is $1.3B for the first 6 months of this fiscal year (or roughly $2.6 for the year). I am expecting some growth next year so that it exceeds $3 billion. New Jersey is at $4 billion last year, and will probably be $3.6 for calendar year 2010.
Unless some of these new efforts work for NJ, it should level off close to PA revenue. PA is a larger population by about half, but they are more spread out. I am assuming rural people gamble less. I have never seen an estimate of how much PA is now stealing from NJ. I assume that there is still some reverse spending as some Pennsylvanians still want the bigger tableau and take the time to drive to Atlantic City.
Sands Bethelehem is improving more than any other casino. With the new hotel in a few months it should surpass Harrah's Chester (which is sliding down) and become the number #2 casino in PA.
PARX casino still has the largest and wealthiest population within a 30 minute drive of any casino in PA, so it is likely to remain the biggest revenue earner.
