Game Over for Sands, Wynn, MGM, Macau casinos
Quote: BozLooks like a copyrighted story reprinted, which can cause problems.
Agreed.
Deck007, I'm going to put that in a spoiler for the time being, but if it is a copied article, please amend your post to only directly quote a paragraph or two (feel free to add your own commentary) as well as including a link to the article.
Quote: BozLooks like a copyrighted story reprinted, which can cause problems.
Credit should go to
Toh Han Shih, Niall Fraser and Raquel Carvalho
South China Morning post.
http://www.scmp.com/news/china/article/1681571/party-knocked-down-macaus-house-cards-just-six-weeks
By the way, linking a story is totally cool :-)
By the way, its a real good story.
Thanks to OP for bringing to our attention
In some ways it surprises me, in some ways it does not.
Corruption is huge in China and Macau benefited big time.
When I heard the amounts of money pouring into Macau, I was amazed, Vegas doesn't come close.
Also amazed at the amounts Sands and Wynn were pulling out of there.
I was pretty surprised they were actually allowed in.
China does not like money leaving the country.
I thought Wynn and Sands were taking a big gamble and wow, it paid off spectacularly.
Now that the other shoe is dropping, we shall see.
Quote: terapinedNow for the story itself.
In some ways it surprises me, in some ways it does not.
Corruption is huge in China and Macau benefited big time.
When I heard the amounts of money pouring into Macau, I was amazed, Vegas doesn't come close.
Also amazed at the amounts Sands and Wynn were pulling out of there.
I was pretty surprised they were actually allowed in.
China does not like money leaving the country.
I thought Wynn and Sands were taking a big gamble and wow, it paid off spectacularly.
Now that the other shoe is dropping, we shall see.
The story is far from over.
The FBI is investigating Sands and Wynn for money laundering.
J. Chanos is shorting the stocks.
Wynn took Chanos to court for his remarks and lost.
all the big guns down in china were affiliated with Jiang, the former head of the Communist Party.
I think after the clean up everything will be back to normal.
Quote: Deck007..."never played against the [CHINESE] Communist Party."
How true is the above quote in regard to the Chinese Communist Party!
Morons should learn something from the Portuguese and British. The Portuguese and British had occupied Macao (1557) and Hong Kong (1839) for over hundreds of years from China. They decided not to play with the Chinese Communist Party with nukes. They returned Hong Kong and Macao to the Party during 1997 thru 1999.
Hey... the Great Britain went to war with Argentina (which has no nukes) in 1982 to keep Falklands, but the British won't go to war with China to keep Hong Kong, so Caveat emptor!
Quote: ArtemisHey... the Great Britain went to war with Argentina (which has no nukes) in 1982 to keep Falklands, but the British won't go to war with China to keep Hong Kong, so Caveat emptor!
Of course they wont go to war with China.
This has nothing to do with nukes.
Its about honoring an agreement made in the past.
The 99 year lease was up on the New Territories next to Hong Kong.
The right thing to do is hand over Hong Kong with the New Territories because both are inseparable and the lease was up.
If you lease a house and the lease is up, you move out, you don't go to war with your landlord lol.
Quote: ArtemisQuote: Deck007..."never played against the [CHINESE] Communist Party."
How true is the above quote in regard to the Chinese Communist Party!
Morons should learn something from the Portuguese and British. The Portuguese and British had occupied Macao (1557) and Hong Kong (1839) for over hundreds of years from China. They decided not to play with the Chinese Communist Party with nukes. They returned Hong Kong and Macao to the Party during 1997 thru 1999.
Hey... the Great Britain went to war with Argentina (which has no nukes) in 1982 to keep Falklands, but the British won't go to war with China to keep Hong Kong, so Caveat emptor!
Quote: terapinedOf course they wont go to war with China.
This has nothing to do with nukes.
Its about honoring an agreement made in the past.
The 99 year lease was up on the New Territories next to Hong Kong.
The right thing to do is hand over Hong Kong with the New Territories because both are inseparable and the lease was up.
If you lease a house and the lease is up, you move out, you don't go to war with your landlord lol.
Honor? Landlord? OK, I agree to disagree with you.
Again, Caveat emptor. "never played against the [CHINESE] Communist Party" was used frequently in newspapers circa after someone shot down and killed Marshal Lin Biao (Chairman Mao's designated successor). The Marshal attempted to flee from China to Russia because he knew he would never play against the Party HEAD-ON. Unfortunately, the Marshal's 27-year-old daughter ratted out her own father's escape plan to the Party, and indirectly caused the death of her own father. Caveat emptor!
Quote: BozLooks like a copyrighted story reprinted, which can cause problems.
Agreed. I'm going to have to delete it and gently issue a warning to not do it again. In the future, please provide a link to the article you wish to refer to.
The article mentioned the Lisboa basement prostitution ring. I'm going to miss that. Dozens of beautiful Asian working girls all dressed up and walking around in circles.
Quote: WizardAgreed. I'm going to have to delete it and gently issue a warning to not do it again. In the future, please provide a link to the article you wish to refer to.
The article mentioned the Lisboa basement prostitution ring. I'm going to miss that. Dozens of beautiful Asian working girls all dressed up and walking around in circles.
The reason that I did not use the link is because the South China Morning Post has a paid online edition similar to the WSJ and I was not sure if the link would appear.
Wizard, I am going to ask a mischievous question here since you said you are going to miss that. Can I assume that you partake of their services there.
Quote: WizardAgreed. I'm going to have to delete it and gently issue a warning to not do it again. In the future, please provide a link to the article you wish to refer to.
The article mentioned the Lisboa basement prostitution ring. I'm going to miss that. Dozens of beautiful Asian working girls all dressed up and walking around in circles.
Do you realize many of those girls are being forced to be prostitutes. Maybe you won't miss it so much .
Quote: Deck007Wizard, I am going to ask a mischievous question here since you said you are going to miss that. Can I assume that you partake of their services there.
I just enjoy watching.
Quote: WizardI just enjoy watching.
Really just watching. What fun is that. Maybe you don't want to tell more in public. All the way to Macau and just enjoy watching.
Quote: Deck007Really just watching. What fun is that. Maybe you don't want to tell more in public.
Are you for real?
Quote: Artemis
Honor? Landlord? OK, I agree to disagree with you.
Again, Caveat emptor. "never played against the [CHINESE] Communist Party" was used frequently in newspapers circa after someone shot down and killed Marshal Lin Biao (Chairman Mao's designated successor). The Marshal attempted to flee from China to Russia because he knew he would never play against the Party HEAD-ON. Unfortunately, the Marshal's 27-year-old daughter ratted out her own father's escape plan to the Party, and indirectly caused the death of her own father. Caveat emptor!
You disagree, that's cool.
But I don't get the "Caveat emptor" or your above argument.
Why Lin Biao was on a plane or why it crashed is debatable, regardless, don't know what this has to do with Hong Kong.
Anyway, it was the last of a Colonial empire and we as a planet have moved on from colonial empires.
The English did an honorable thing and handed it back to China.
Quote: terapinedQuote: Artemis
Honor? Landlord? OK, I agree to disagree with you.
Again, Caveat emptor. "never played against the [CHINESE] Communist Party" was used frequently in newspapers circa after someone shot down and killed Marshal Lin Biao (Chairman Mao's designated successor). The Marshal attempted to flee from China to Russia because he knew he would never play against the Party HEAD-ON. Unfortunately, the Marshal's 27-year-old daughter ratted out her own father's escape plan to the Party, and indirectly caused the death of her own father. Caveat emptor!
You disagree, that's cool.
But I don't get the "Caveat emptor" or your above argument.
Why Lin Biao was on a plane or why it crashed is debatable, regardless, don't know what this has to do with Hong Kong.
Anyway, it was the last of a Colonial empire and we as a planet have moved on from colonial empires.
The English did an honorable thing and handed it back to China.
I don't think we want to lose sight of the main thrust of the article.
That is it is now the "new normal".
No more the symbiotic relationship between the government and the Macau grandee Stanley Ho.
His nephew a long time senior executive has been charged with a serious crime and is presently cooling off in prison.
In passing when the government handed the casino licences, they gave Steve Wynn a licence for free based just on is reputation of being the master builder in LV. Not only that Wynn could sell a sub-concession to Melco for $1Billion. Shouldn't that money go to the Macau taxpayer instead of Wynn pocket.
Adelson had to fight for his licence. He tried to team up with some HK and Taiwan insiders and got himself into a lot of trouble.
The clincher for him is when he was lobbying in Beijing and at the time the Chinese gov. was worried that the US senate would pass a bill to boycott the 2088 Beijing Olympic Games.
Adelson pick up the phone to call his friend Tm Delay, Senate majority leader who assured him the bill would not see the light of day.
The Chinese gov. was most impressed and Adelson got his licence. By the way Tom Delay is in prison now on some corruption charges.
Quote: Deck007Really just watching. What fun is that. Maybe you don't want to tell more in public. All the way to Macau and just enjoy watching.
Maybe you should be more discreet about what you ask about in public.
Quote: WizardMaybe you should be more discreet about what you ask about in public.
I was joking. Maybe pushing the envelope too far. I apologise if it offend you.
Quote: terapinedQuote: Artemis
Honor? Landlord? OK, I agree to disagree with you.
Again, Caveat emptor. "never played against the [CHINESE] Communist Party" was used frequently in newspapers circa after someone shot down and killed Marshal Lin Biao (Chairman Mao's designated successor). The Marshal attempted to flee from China to Russia because he knew he would never play against the Party HEAD-ON. Unfortunately, the Marshal's 27-year-old daughter ratted out her own father's escape plan to the Party, and indirectly caused the death of her own father. Caveat emptor!
You disagree, that's cool.
But I don't get the "Caveat emptor" or your above argument.
Why Lin Biao was on a plane or why it crashed is debatable, regardless, don't know what this has to do with Hong Kong.
Anyway, it was the last of a Colonial empire and we as a planet have moved on from colonial empires.
The English did an honorable thing and handed it back to China.
I can assure you quite a lot of people in HK think otherwise, especially amongst young people.
Quote: Deck007Adelson pick up the phone to call his friend Tm Delay, Senate majority leader who assured him the bill would not see the light of day.
The Chinese gov. was most impressed and Adelson got his licence. By the way Tom Delay is in prison now on some corruption charges.
You have an interesting grasp of "facts," good sir.
Quote: odiousgambitgetting back to the gist of this, is this good news for Las Vegas?
Maybe. But the real winner is Singapore. Adelson covered his bets.
No kidding, sure does. But it does tend to be about par for the course here.Quote: harvson3You have an interesting grasp of "facts," good sir.
No he isn't. To be "in prison" on "some corruption charges" it would first be necessary to have been sentenced to that after being convicted of a crime. He was not, and is not. Being in some way vaguely unpopular with whatever peer group you hang out with is not exactly the same thing. Although I'll admit that personally I might prefer prison over becoming a contestant on "Dancing with the Stars."Quote: Deck007By the way Tom Delay is in prison now on some corruption charges.
Quote: Deck007I was joking. Maybe pushing the envelope too far.
Ya think? Maybe? Geez..
Quote: WizardI just enjoy watching.
Wizard, I thought you may be interested in this video on the Lisboa girls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lJVI-E7Ho
Now you can watch this as many times as you like.
The Chinese gov. was most impressed and Adelson got his licence. By the way Tom Delay is in prison now on some corruption charges.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-politics/wp/2013/09/19/tom-delay-conviction-overturned-by-texas-court/
Just to be clear, Tom Delay never did time. He actually had his conviction overturned.
Oh it was very clear all right. There was yet another little episode of ignorant and sleazy political sloganeering which tends to chronically infest this board, no more, no less.Quote: texasplumrJust to be clear,
To the actual relevant "Game Over" topic: If this keeps up the gaming revenue from those Macau casinos could possibly become only five times the size of Las Vegas, instead of seven times as large. Horror! The sky is falling! Or put another way, LVS may eventually fall to as low as 25 times what it was when I bought shares six years ago (the last time the sky was falling) instead of yet again surpassing the peak it reached of over 70 times (+7,000%) of their earlier market value due primarily to their success in Macao (and also in Singapore).
About 6 years ago when LVS was going bust and trading in the $20+ range I wanted to short the stock.
But Adelson manage to save the company by injecting a few $B of his own money into the company.
A year ago the stock was trading in the $70-80 price range. Now it is at about $55.
Could LVS go bust in future. Obvious you don't think so.
Just let me state there are 6 $3+Billions projects presently under construction.
The first of this will be completed and operating on May 27 this year.
And currently Macau casino revenue has already drop by 30-40% from a year ago.
Remember Vegas in the last recession when casinos go bust and construction came to a stop and rotting away.
Quote: NokTangThe "Racetrack" in the Lisboa basement was/is? nothing. There are "saunas" and call girls all over Hong Kong and Macau. It isn't frowned on like there in the USA. The Racetrack was only famous because of it's public show. I might add that a lot of the racers won't go with "white foreigners" because the Chinese customer base will forever label them as "dirty whores".
Yes working girls are everywhere.
But it is the in your face aspect or public show as you put it that shock The Wizard, myself and many others.
Quote: Deck007Yes working girls are everywhere.
But it is the in your face aspect or public show as you put it that shock The Wizard, myself and many others.
The beachfront in Pattaya, Thailand, has more girls and ladyboys strolling along or sitting under palm trees and on benches than the Racetrack at the Lisboa. You don't even have to get off your motorcycle or out of your car. You can simply wave her/him over and away you go. Here however black skinned and Indian/brown skinned men generally have to settle for ladyboys and while not a daily occurrence, once or twice a week said ladyboy(s) drug the john and rob him. Often the Indians are in a group of call it four in one hotel room and still the ladyboy gets the upper hand(no pun) and manages to drug all four via lacing their drinks or his nipples. It's a remarkable sight at the hospital. Four broke Indians shitting all over themselves being denied treatment because as I say, no money along with the implicit racism towards same.
Anyhow, this is way off topic. I just noticed mention of the world famous Racetrack at Lisboa and wanted to provide some context. Macau is about more than gambling mostly because of it's general relationship with Hong Kong tourism and theme parks and attractions.
ps: They are required to walk around the Racetrack. Seats are for paying customers only, customers of the vendors, not the racers.
Quote: DrawingDead(and also in Singapore).
My understanding is that in Singapore, the well know relationships with the junket operators is illegal.
However, with that said and the trend in Macau, www.nagaworld.com is going strong with said "junket" deals where the operator puts up the money for the players and gets a share of the win. This in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.
Quote: NokTangMy understanding is that in Singapore, the well know relationships with the junket operators is illegal.
However, with that said and the trend in Macau, www.nagaworld.com is going strong with said "junket" deals where the operator puts up the money for the players and gets a share of the win. This in Phnom Penh, Cambodia.
Your earlier posting on working girl shows you are a man about town and have deep knowledge on this subject.
As far as junket is concern, Singapore has very strict laws on money laundering. The banking rule of knowing who your customer is applies to casinos also.
SG has only approve 1 junket operator for RWS casino and none for MBS.
For money laundering I suppose nagaworld Cambodia has to compete with Philippines an some other softer locations.
Quote: Deck007Your earlier posting on working girl shows you are a man about town and have deep knowledge on this subject.
As far as junket is concern, Singapore has very strict laws on money laundering. The banking rule of knowing who your customer is applies to casinos also.
SG has only approve 1 junket operator for RWS casino and none for MBS.
For money laundering I suppose nagaworld Cambodia has to compete with Philippines an some other softer locations.
The Philippines is not really open full scale yet. They are of course working on it all as you must be aware. This "trouble" in Macau must be the great news for those investors in the Philippines as well as Nagaworld, which is in expansion mode. Gamblers will find a place as will junket operators. I'm going to be back in Nagaworld next month and will post an update on this site.
Unfortunately, I do have a lot of experience from a street level in the "working girl" department. This however isn't the place to discuss the intricate details.
Quote: Deck007Wizard, I thought you may be interested in this video on the Lisboa girls.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n9lJVI-E7Ho
Now you can watch this as many times as you like.
Thank you!
Quote: NokTangI might add that a lot of the racers won't go with "white foreigners" because the Chinese customer base will forever label them as "dirty whores".
I've heard there is another reason, that the girls prefer a certain male body part small. I don't know if that is true, just something somebody told me about some places in Thailand that take only Japanese customers.
Quote: WizardI've heard there is another reason, that the girls prefer a certain male body part small. I don't know if that is true, just something somebody told me about some places in Thailand that take only Japanese customers.
The places that only take(admit) Japanese customers are more about the customers not liking other nationalities than what the ladies prefer. It's all about the money as you can imagine, and the Japanese are more than willing to pay a lot more than your typical "western" tourist.
As a typical example, and these are real numbers:
Local Thai men will pay apx. $11.usd
Western men will pay apx. $30.usd (exceptions noted when the westerner is naive, new, and in a tourist "gogo" bar)
Japanese men will pay no less than $100.usd (and even more for an outcall using an agency)
As a rule and in reality, the women are all the same. It's a matter of make up. The above figures refer to one hour of adult entertainment.
ps: Ladyboys are not a Japanese thing, that more of a German and English(England) along with Indian thing. The Indians get in trouble because they think they can split the cost calling it "group sex" but expect the ladyboy to service all of them in said hotel room designed for two guests but normally occupied by four to eight Indian males.
Quote: WizardI've heard there is another reason, that the girls prefer a certain male body part small. I don't know if that is true, just something somebody told me about some places in Thailand that take only Japanese customers.
Sorry Wiz a recent study of 15K men found no significant difference in the size of mens penis's by race. It should ease most mens anxiety as the average erect size was just over 5". SIZE STUDY
I own LVS from $3.01, so I can't complain. When I look at the balance sheet, capex, debt maturity profile, buyback, and dividend, I sleep well at night. Worst case, imo, it becomes a bond proxy until Macau infrastructure catches up. Don't forget, VIP is low margin business, mass is HUGE margin and less lumpy.
Also, to my knowledge LVS is NOT being investigated for money laundering. Rather, it's the FCPA stemming from the Jacobs lawsuit. Small potatoes given their cash on hand.
Quote: NokTangThe places that only take(admit) Japanese customers are more about the customers not liking other nationalities than what the ladies prefer. It's all about the money as you can imagine, and the Japanese are more than willing to pay a lot more than your typical "western" tourist.
As a typical example, and these are real numbers:
Local Thai men will pay apx. $11.usd
Western men will pay apx. $30.usd (exceptions noted when the westerner is naive, new, and in a tourist "gogo" bar)
Japanese men will pay no less than $100.usd (and even more for an outcall using an agency)
As a rule and in reality, the women are all the same. It's a matter of make up. The above figures refer to one hour of adult entertainment.
ps: Ladyboys are not a Japanese thing, that more of a German and English(England) along with Indian thing. The Indians get in trouble because they think they can split the cost calling it "group sex" but expect the ladyboy to service all of them in said hotel room designed for two guests but normally occupied by four to eight Indian males.
wtf?!
if 8 Indian males in a room want a ladyboy then why even bother getting one? they could just do a circle jerk by themselves?
Quote: 100xOdds
wtf?!
if 8 Indian males in a room want a ladyboy then why even bother getting one? they could just do a circle jerk by themselves?
They do that back in India........remember, they are in Thailand on a vacation package of sorts, lucky to have a vacation of this type once in a lifetime. They pay $2.usd each and think of it as a real treat. Context is everything.
Yes nagaworld in Cambodia had a 49% increase.
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-04-01/macau-casinos-record-second-worst-month-amid-anti-graft-probe
http://www.forbes.com/sites/jnylander/2015/03/31/where-chinas-high-rollers-go-to-gamble-after-macau-casino-crackdown-new-report/
Quote:Yes nagaworld in Cambodia had a 49% increase.
Looks like it might be a good time for a Holiday in Cambodia .
Don't forget to pack your wife.
