Power outages

I lost power for four days in Hurricane Irene. Since it was summer, we borrowed a generator from a friend who uses it his construction site, but it was oversized, very noisy and cost a lot of money in gas. Not to mention that with 5 gallon gas tanks you had to run to the gas station several times per day.

I am concerned about losing power in winter. Even the wood pellet stove won't work without electricity (nor the oil boiler). It may not be easy to drive through snow to the gas station.

I am looking at this All Power America 2-Stroke Portable Generator — 1000 Surge Watts, 850 Rated Watts. It only takes 1.2 gallons at a time, so I figure it is possible to keep 10 gallons of gas in the garage. It should keep a refrigerator, a computer, and a few appliances running in sequence (microwave, phone chargers, etc.).


This unit is 2.4 HP, about 40 lbs, 65 decibels. I would probably keep it in the basement, with gasoline in the garage. Since it isn't very noisy, you could set it outside and run industrial extension cords into the house.

Besides the expense of purchasing a much larger generator, it seems as if it is difficult to safely keep enough gas to run it for 24-48 hours.

Anyone have some advice? Is it too little?

====================
On a secondary note, I understand that there are some people who are advocates of having the ability to survive 72 hours of extreme emergency. Possibly earthquake, civil insurrection, or some combination of the above. By this I mean locking yourself in a room with food, water, some kind of chemical toilet, ability to pick up emergency communications, defense against light arms. I think it would be difficult to defend against someone burning your house down, but you could have someone breaking in with a pistol who might set small blazes in your living room.

Having been in one of those situations myself, when you hear guns all night and people trying to break down barricades, it does make some sense. Civilization is a very thin veneer. Are there any advocates of this line of preparedness?

Just so you know it takes energy to lower the noise. If you dont want to travel to the gas station wich can easily be closed when there is no electricity you may want to get jerycans and stockpile 4 days of fuel go online and search for them.

I would figure out what lights and stuff that you need then look for a generator that can handle the load. If you over use it, it can burn out.

Way too small, its made for camping and such. You need at
least 5000 watts for the house, so you can run the furnace and
fridge, if not at the same time, at least intermittently. The
small one is made mostly for lights and TV's and not things
that have energy stealing motors.

I'm not much of a fan of the bunker mentality. If people know
you're heavily armed they'll pretty much leave you alone and
look for easier targets. I concentrate more on the weapons
than locking myself in anywhere.

Refrigerators usually run on three-phase motors that stop and start all the time. This means there is a surge current and you will need to provide it without anything tripping out. I'm told the start can require three times the current needed to keep something running.

The main thing to have is will you be feeding current into the house wiring. If so you may need a permit but should have a device that keeps your house wiring from feeding the current into downed wires that electric company men may be working on and which the power company thinks are "off".

Calculate your load including phantom load such as the clock in the microwave or the instant on feature of the TV set.

Store gasoline in a garage? That's a dynamite idea. As a matter of fact, it is safer to store dynamite in your garage than gasoline.

Survivalist? Most riots and civil commotion are short lived and localized. Targets are usually merchants. Gas stations, liquor stores, electronic stores, cigarette vendors. In the UK riots the only areas that remained calm and functioning were the Turkish areas because everyone knew: The Turks had guns and would use them at the first sign of trouble without any hesitation whatsoever.

Water, survival rations... hardly worth it unless you also invest in sufficient weaponry to defend your cache. Night vision goggles probably needed. Ability to fire an illumination round or two is probably good, some armor piercing but mainly anti-personnel rounds.

Quote: FleaStiff

The Turks had guns and would use them at the first sign of trouble without any hesitation whatsoever. >>Water, survival rations... hardly worth it unless you also invest in sufficient weaponry to defend your cache.

Yup, its all about being prepared to defend your property.
In my opinion, you can't be over prepared. I have guns
all over my house, none in plain sight. I'd much rather have
a couple dozen lines of defense than a couple cans of pork
and beans and a .22 rifle I use to shoot snakes with. The
Browning 12 gauge pump I have mounted over the back
door will put the fear of god into anything smart enough to
know what it is.

Quote: FleaStiff

Refrigerators usually run on three-phase motors that stop and start all the time. This means there is a surge current and you will need to provide it without anything tripping out. I'm told the start can require three times the current needed to keep something running.

The main thing to have is will you be feeding current into the house wiring. If so you may need a permit but should have a device that keeps your house wiring from feeding the current into downed wires that electric company men may be working on and which the power company thinks are "off".

Calculate your load including phantom load such as the clock in the microwave or the instant on feature of the TV set.

Store gasoline in a garage? That's a dynamite idea. As a matter of fact, it is safer to store dynamite in your garage than gasoline.

Survivalist? Most riots and civil commotion are short lived and localized. Targets are usually merchants. Gas stations, liquor stores, electronic stores, cigarette vendors. In the UK riots the only areas that remained calm and functioning were the Turkish areas because everyone knew: The Turks had guns and would use them at the first sign of trouble without any hesitation whatsoever.

Water, survival rations... hardly worth it unless you also invest in sufficient weaponry to defend your cache. Night vision goggles probably needed. Ability to fire an illumination round or two is probably good, some armor piercing but mainly anti-personnel rounds.

Flea your fridge won't be 3 phase in your house. Very few if any houses have 3 phase power I haven't seen a residential 3 phase service in the 40+ years I have been in the electrical industry. You are still however right about the surge current even with the single phase motor in the fridge. Motors are the key component in sizing a generator because of the large in-rush current needed to start them. You would need to test the appliances with the proposed generator. It is also possible to reverse energize the power lines feeding your house and electricute a linesman without a proper transfer switch to change from hydro to generator power. The phantom load of your wall warts is inconsequential when calculating the generator size.

On your primary note, I'm not terribly familiar with generators. I am familiar with small engines, though. Realize a 2 stroke will require an additional purchase of 2 stroke oil that would need to be mixed before use (usually a 50:1 or 100:1 ratio, depending on engine). You cannot run straight fuel, so that's one more thing you'd need on hand if you're making an emergency kit.

2 strokes are typically noisier as well. Perhaps with newer technology and this engine's purpose, the makers have addressed this issue, but most 2 strokes have that high pitched mosquito whine when you give em the beans, whereas a 4 stroke just thumps louder.

2 stroke also isn't as efficient. You'll go through gas faster than you would a 4 stroke.

They also aren't as reliable. They'll usually need to be rebuilt 4 times for every 1 rebuild of a 4 stroke (which, for a generator, may be never due to such little use). And then there's the smoke. I'd highly suggest, whether 2 or 4 stroke, that you don't run it indoors without professional grade exhaust piping. I've had CO poisoning, it ain't cool.

(Note: most of these facts pertain to "toys" such as 4wheelers, dirt bikes and boat motors. I can only assume a generator motor is similar, though it may not be)

Also keep in mind, since a generator is very much a "store for a long time" device, that todays gas need to be handled differently (this goes for any gas device). When you store your fuel, make sure the can or tank is filled to the brim. The ethynol in todays gas reacts with the water in the air, and the molecules bind together. Once they do, they precipitate and don't go back into solution. This not only clogs injectors but rusts interior parts.

Quote: kenarman

Flea your fridge won't be 3 phase in your house. Very few if any houses have 3 phase power I haven't seen a residential 3 phase service in the 40+ years I have been in the electrical industry. You are still however right about the surge current even with the single phase motor in the fridge. Motors are the key component in sizing a generator because of the large in-rush current needed to start them. You would need to test the appliances with the proposed generator. It is also possible to reverse energize the power lines feeding your house and electricute a linesman without a proper transfer switch to change from hydro to generator power. The phantom load of your wall warts is inconsequential when calculating the generator size.

I was worried about the surge on the start. I think this unit is to small for anything larger than a mini-refrigerator.

I don't want to worry about powering the house, as it seems unnecessary. The wood pellet stove should keep it survivable, if not comfortable,and keep the pipes from freezing. The pellet stove is simply plugged in. The oil fired boiler keeps the steam radiators going. But it should be possible to manage for a few days.

I just want to run an extension cord into the house and keep the fridge and the pellet stove running and maybe plug in some cell phones. The falling trees usually take out the computer cable along with power, so you don't have access.

Good point about gasoline. It probably makes more sense to fill the cans the day before a suspected storm. If no storm, then put the gas into the cars.

The best thing to have now is a smart phone, if you have a
way to charge the battery. It gets the internet from a satellite.

Filling gas cans requires the can be on the ground and the nozzle be in constant contact with it.
Putting gas into a car from a can is usually safer.
Storing the gas inside the garage is ridiculously risky.
Gas stations may have long lines before a storm and are often ordered closed during rioting.

Quote: FleaStiff

Filling gas cans requires the can be on the ground and the nozzle be in constant contact with it.
Putting gas into a car from a can is usually safer.
Storing the gas inside the garage is ridiculously risky.
Gas stations may have long lines before a storm and are often ordered closed during rioting.

The thing about emergencies is they're usually unexpected. I know I've went to bed watching flurries and woke up to being trapped inside by 5 feet of snow. I keep the fuel at home. 5gal in the garage and 15 more (5 gas, 10 kero) in the shed.

How is keeping gas in the garage "ridiculously risky"?