gun show loophole rant
I think slowing the bad guys down would increase safety while only inconveniencing the good.guys.
How?
Remove detachable-without-tools magazines (rifles, not pistols). Every bullet loaded has to be fed back in manually.
Reduce magazine capacity.
Have a high KE weapon, which might be a .223 or .30-06? Bolt action.
Those ideas won't stop some of the scenarios you mentioned, but would slow down others, put the bad guys more in reach of the good guys, give people breaks to run for cover or toward the shooter (yes I know they might have multiple guns)
This won't stop mass shootings, but just because it won't isn't a reason to not try to do something to make them more survivable or harder to pull off.
Quote: Dalex64
This won't stop mass shootings, but just because it won't isn't a reason to not try to do something to make them more survivable or harder to pull off.
Not a good enough reason to take away the rights of the law-abiding gun owner. Mass shootings are very rare, and often are gang or other crime related.
Quote: rxwine
However, no telling how many guns have been purchased from gun shows, by people who were already suppose to be prohibited from owning them, whether they later committed a crime or not.
We await your stats on how many of these guns are used in crimes. And how many vs. how many legally purchased with no "loophole."
Get some numbers.
Magazines limited to 10 Rounds
Attempts to define Assault Weapons as semi rifles with Pistol Grips, etc. If the weapon has enough bad things, you can’t have an “easily” detachable magazine.
One gun purchase every 30 days.
Maybe your ideas above slow down the shooter in Vegas...maybe (he had 13 weapons and didn’t end up using them all). But Vegas is a one off. The bigger threat is deranged individuals walking into a school, church, restaurant or other crowded business/event and killing people at close range. You can drop a 10 round mag in .45 ACP pistol and reload in 1.5 with minimal training...shot gun shells can be manually reloaded on the fly between blasts of 00 Buck Shot and pump action shot guns start off with 8+1 worth of capacity.
California rules, some of the strictest in the nation stop none of this activity.
You can’t control the power of firearms without significantly decreasing the law abiding citizen their right to self defense of their person and their homes.
You need to control access to firearms, increase mental health services and make it easier to report dangerous people to authorities that will act on the knowledge (are you listening FBI/Broward County Sheriff). You’re never gonna stop the guy with no history that snaps and goes off like the Vegas shooter.
Quote: Paradigm
You need to control access to firearms, increase mental health services and make it easier to report dangerous people to authorities that will act on the knowledge (are you listening FBI/Broward County Sheriff). You’re never gonna stop the guy with no history that snaps and goes off like the Vegas shooter.
But more you need to fix a sickly society. The problems in the USA are deep. Meanwhile, half of society is distracted by who won what ball game and who is Jennifer Aniston dating this week.
Lots of these mass shootings are suicides to go out in a blaze of glory.
Quote: ParadigmYou need to control access to firearms, increase mental health services and make it easier to report dangerous people to authorities that will act on the knowledge (are you listening FBI/Broward County Sheriff). You’re never gonna stop the guy with no history that snaps and goes off like the Vegas shooter.
Those are other things that I agree with that can be done, I was focusing on the technical.
There is ample precident for restricting and removing constitutional rights for convicted criminals and mentally unfit.
There is also ample precident for having a moving line between constitutional rights and reasonable restrictions, but simply labeling something as an infringements on constitutional rights isn't a sufficient argument alone, as existing restrictions that everyone already agrees on have been determined to be constitutional.
The final, longest term, and probably impossible step would be changing the moral structure of society so that the thoughts of even criminals would be that it would be unconsonable to kill someone else. In the middle is the vague notion of changing the "gun culture"
Even if that end result is unachievable, steps must be taken to protect the innocent, rather than doing nothing and labeling it as the cost of freedom.
Quote: AZDuffmanSo you think. I doubt it. Gun grabbers do not want to stop at one class of weapon. They may find it impolitic to want to ban all guns in one swoop, but don't think they want to stop.
I await your stats on this. Get some numbers on "Gun grabbers do not want to stop at one class of weapon."
Quote: AZDuffmanWe await your stats on how many of these guns are used in crimes. And how many vs. how many legally purchased with no "loophole."
Get some numbers.
If you read it correctly you would have noticed I didn't make any specific claim for certain on guns and loopholes. I just posted speculation.. "However, no telling how many guns have been purchased from gun shows, by people who were already suppose to be prohibited from owning them, whether they later committed a crime or not. "
"no telling" Get it.
Quote: rxwineI await your stats on this. Get some numbers on "Gun grabbers do not want to stop at one class of weapon."
I posted a video earlier. Look at the gun laws enacted and attempted in places like Chicago and Washington, DC. Look at how the guns have been taken in other countries. Get liberals gun grabbers talking. They hate guns and want them all taken away. Some of us are not so gullible as to take them at just wanting "reasonable restrictions."
Quote:If you read it correctly you would have noticed I didn't make any specific claim for certain on guns and loopholes. I just posted speculation.. "However, no telling how many guns have been purchased from gun shows, by people who were already suppose to be prohibited from owning them, whether they later committed a crime or not. "
"no telling" Get it.
I get it. You dislike guns and want them as hard to get as possible, stats or no stats.
Quote: AZDuffmanI posted a video earlier. Look at the gun laws enacted and attempted in places like Chicago and Washington, DC.
In your opinion, which of these laws violate the constitution?
Quote: TomGIn your opinion, which of these laws violate the constitution?
The DC laws especially violated it. SCOTUS agrees, BTW.
Quote: AZDuffman
I get it. You dislike guns and want them as hard to get as possible, stats or no stats.
Sorry, I'm not part of the pro-gun groups who have kept the government from studying the associated results of gun use.
Such as 8Ca@?275fg#88b32+al%....etc.,
But at least 15 digits. Since it would be randomly generated, there is no actual way it could be decoded, because it would be paired with a real serial number, not coded to it.
It would be the gun purchasers responsibility to maintain this digital output separately from the gun. With it the gun owner could purchase bullets matching that gun. There would be no names attached to the serial number or digital output. If there is no match in the database with the manufacturer, no bullets can legally be sold. If there is an excessive amount of bullets bought under one serial number, it would cause a flagging and a stop of sales. The owner could get authorization if it was appropriate to purchase so many rounds. Of course, if the gun is stolen purchasing bullets becomes problematic, because no digital output will likely be stolen with it.
That's one way, I would try to get more control of illegal gun usage. Also, I believe it is easier to "sniff" gunpower than gunmetal. So attempts to mail and circumvent might have a better chance of being unsuccessful.
Quote: rxwineSorry, I'm not part of the pro-gun groups who have kept the government from studying the associated results of gun use.
Since when has the FBI been kept from studying gun crimes? They have all kinds of stats.
Quote: rxwineIf
It would be the gun purchasers responsibility to maintain this digital output separately from the gun. With it the gun owner could purchase bullets matching that gun. There would be no names attached to the serial number or digital output. If there is no match in the database with the manufacturer, no bullets can legally be sold. If there is an excessive amount of bullets bought under one serial number, it would cause a flagging and a stop of sales. The owner could get authorization if it was appropriate to purchase so many rounds. Of course, if the gun is stolen purchasing bullets becomes problematic, because no digital output will likely be stolen with it.
That's one way, I would try to get more control of illegal gun usage. Also, I believe it is easier to "sniff" gunpower than gunmetal. So attempts to mail and circumvent might have a better chance of being unsuccessful.
Sounds like a back door way to take away people's rights.
Quote:The problem for gun rights advocates is that, if you look at the language and custom at the time the Second Amendment was written, laws like the Militia Act of 1792 pop up. It required men between the ages of 18 and 45 to register themselves for militia service, and specified they have certain weapons such as a "good rifle." Similarly, a report from Philadelphia in 1823 showed that there were 12,678 rifles in private hands, indicating some records of who owned what.
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/sorry-mandatory-gun-registration-is-constitutional/
Really sad we live in the country of mass shootings
Its no longer shocking to me. Happens over and over.
Shooter yelled “all Jews must die” entering the synagogue
Armed with a AR-15 ‘Style’ Rifle
Early reports, 12 shot. 8 dead. 4 of the shot are police officers
Extreme right winger that did not vote for Trump because Trump is not right wing enough. WTF
How long to the next mass shooting in this country.
It wont be long
Quote: terapinedAnother mass shooting
Really sad we live in the country of mass shootings
Its no longer shocking to me. Happens over and over.
Shooter yelled “all Jews must die” entering the synagogue
Armed with a AR-15 ‘Style’ Rifle
Early reports, 12 shot. 8 dead. 4 of the shot are police officers
Extreme right winger that did not vote for Trump because Trump is not right wing enough. WTF
How long to the next mass shooting in this country.
It wont be long
Nazism is very leftist.
Nazis believe in a strong, centralized government with a top-down approach regarding everything. They also believe that business must be controlled by the state. Nationalized health care, nationalized schooling, state approved religions only, etc, etc.
Quote: MaxPenNazism is very leftist.
Nazis believe in a strong, centralized government with a top-down approach regarding everything. They also believe that business must be controlled by the state. Nationalized health care, nationalized schooling, state approved religions only, etc, etc.
Then why are all the Nazis right-wing in America? Nice try. Swing and a miss.
Quote: beachbumbabsThen why are all the Nazis right-wing in America? Nice try. Swing and a miss.
Because they kept up the National part and not the Socialist part of the National-Socialist German Workers Party (aka the Nazi party)?
Quote: beachbumbabsThen why are all the Nazis right-wing in America? Nice try. Swing and a miss.
You are so easily fooled. Here is something to read.
https://www.amazon.com/Big-Lie-Exposing-Roots-American/dp/1621573486
Quote: terapined
Another mass shooting
Really sad we live in the country of mass shootings
Its no longer shocking to me. Happens over and over.
Shooter yelled “all Jews must die” entering the synagogue
Armed with a AR-15 ‘Style’ Rifle
Early reports, 12 shot. 8 dead. 4 of the shot are police officers
Extreme right winger that did not vote for Trump because Trump is not right wing enough. WTF
How long to the next mass shooting in this country.
It wont be long
Quote: MaxPenNazism is very leftist.
Nazis believe in a strong, centralized government with a top-down approach regarding everything. They also believe that business must be controlled by the state. Nationalized health care, nationalized schooling, state approved religions only, etc, etc.
How is what I posted leftist????????
All Americans are saddened by the shooting regardless of politics
I'm not shocked, are you? Happens over and over, that's a fact regardless of politics
The next 4 lines were facts with no spin
Asking when the next mass shooting is not left or right, just dealing with reality
Its wont be long unfortunately is reality and we all know it. Its not left or right. It is what it is.
Quote: terapinedHow is what I posted leftist????????
All Americans are saddened by the shooting regardless of politics
I'm not shocked, are you? Happens over and over, that's a fact regardless of politics
The next 4 lines were facts with no spin
Asking when the next mass shooting is not left or right, just dealing with reality
Its wont be long unfortunately is reality and we all know it. Its not left or right. It is what it is.
Did you miss the part in your own post where you wrote the shooter yelled “All Jews must die” as well as where Maxpen wrote “Nazism is very leftist.”? Now, I’m not Maxpen or anything, but I’m going to throw a wild stab in the dark and say MAYBE those things are related. Just trying to offer my unbiased opinion.
Seems like ones coming don't it.Quote: terapinedHow long to the next mass shooting in this country.
It wont be long
Quote: petroglyphSeems like ones coming don't it.
Of course it is. The USA is a society that has been declining since 1964 and entered the collapse phase about the mid-2000s. Like the fall of the Romans, it cannot be stopped. Enjoy the ride.
I really don't get it
I hear the name Soros and I yawn
Apparently the alt-right has pretty much labeled this guy as a demon
Pretty sick
Just a really weird situation.
Trump supports Israel yet his most ardent supporters are the most antisemitic people in this country
Quote: terapinedWhat is it with all the right wing hatred for Jews
I really don't get it
I hear the name Soros and I yawn
Apparently the alt-right has pretty much labeled this guy as a demon
Same as what lefties do to the Kochs?
Quote:Pretty sick
Just a really weird situation.
Trump supports Israel yet his most ardent supporters are the most antisemitic people in this country
You are aware the shooter hated Trump?
Quote: RSDid you miss the part in your own post where you wrote the shooter yelled “All Jews must die” as well as where Maxpen wrote “Nazism is very leftist.”?
It's a bullshit argument. If your hypothetical uncle says he's a Nazi and thinks Trump is sending secret messages of support for his values, and never seems to support actual leftist, we know who he is by his actual real life practices.
50 more books trying to deflect from today's realities says nothing.
Quote: AZDuffmanSame as what lefties do to the Kochs?
You are aware the shooter hated Trump?
The shooter reportedly hated Trump because he wasn't extreme right ENOUGH. But (again reportedly) the triggering event was the LIES Trump told about terrorists hiding in the middle of the caravan. The spooled-up fear and xenophobia he's spewing to motivate HIS people to go to the polls.
So, keep making excuses and ducking responsibility - that just tells us who you are. But the guy was listening to Trump, motivated by his language and buying his bs, which reinforced his own views. Not to mention Faux news and other propaganda bubbles pushing this garbage..
It's like Andrew Gillum said in the FL gov debate the other day. "I'm not calling [him] a racist. I'm saying the racists say he's a racist."
Quote: AxelWolfDon't forget, the media amplifies everything Trump says by a huge factor.
huh ???????????????. You living in the last century where people depended on TV news and newspapers
The world has changed.
People go to twitter to see what Trump says
That's what I do, no media needed.
Israel, China, Russia, the American people all have direct unfiltered access to whatever message Trump wants to communicate
I lean left but I have Trump on my twitter feed.
The whole planet has direct immediate unfiltered access to whatever Trump is tweeting to the planet
Quote: beachbumbabsThe shooter reportedly hated Trump because he wasn't extreme right ENOUGH. But (again reportedly) the triggering event was the LIES Trump told about terrorists hiding in the middle of the caravan. The spooled-up fear and xenophobia he's spewing to motivate HIS people to go to the polls.
So, keep making excuses and ducking responsibility - that just tells us who you are. But the guy was listening to Trump, motivated by his language and buying his bs, which reinforced his own views. Not to mention Faux news and other propaganda bubbles pushing this garbage..
So you are saying Trump is not the radical? The guy hated Trump. So lets dispense with throwing him in with Trump supporters.
If a person does not believe the "caravan" is a staged event and is being used to help move dope and undesirables, well, for $500 I will sign a Quit-Claim Deed to a bridge in NYC to them. And please, do nyt cry about "fear and xenophobia" to "get his people to the polls" when you just switched to a party that uses fear and race-baiting to get THEIR people to the polls.
How many caravan travelers are you planning to ask to settle in your neighborhood?
Quote:It's like Andrew Gillum said in the FL gov debate the other day. "I'm not calling [him] a racist. I'm saying the racists say he's a racist."
IOW, nothing useful to say so bring up racism. Same old Democrat play book. When a Democrat cannot defend their desire for open borders, they call the other side a racist.
Quote: AZDuffman
How many caravan travelers are you planning to ask to settle in your neighborhood?
I'll trade any Trump supporting American conservative for any random pick of 2 of them. MAGA!
Quote: rxwineI'll trade any Trump supporting American conservative for any random pick of 2 of them. MAGA!
Sounds fair to me. Send the Trump supporters my way. You can have the welfare caravan.
So you don't think the media has anything to do with amping up and magnifying what Trump says?Quote: terapinedhuh ???????????????. You living in the last century where people depended on TV news and newspapers
The world has changed.
People go to twitter to see what Trump says
That's what I do, no media needed.
Israel, China, Russia, the American people all have direct unfiltered access to whatever message Trump wants to communicate
I lean left but I have Trump on my twitter feed.
The whole planet has direct immediate unfiltered access to whatever Trump is tweeting to the planet
Quote: AxelWolfSo you don't think the media has anything to do with amping up and magnifying what Trump says?
Are you suggesting they ignore what he says? That we aren't seeing what he actually says? That what we are seeing and hearing isn't real?
Quote: AxelWolfSo you don't think the media has anything to do with amping up and magnifying what Trump says?
Nope
I really doubt the mail bomber watched any CNN or MSNBC
He got his hate straight from the President
I lean left, I don't have the foggiest idea what fox or breibart reports
Trumps tweets are magnified due to him being President.
Every single tweet is reported accurately, grammar mistakes and misspellings included.
I was not just talking about CNN or MSNBC.Quote: terapinedNope
I really doubt the mail bomber watched any CNN or MSNBC
He got his hate straight from the President
I lean left, I don't have the foggiest idea what fox or breibart reports
Trumps tweets are magnified due to him being President.
You may assume I watch Fox news? I almost never watch Fox news. I normally watch CNN and MSNBC.
And I don't do twitter.
I only know what Trump tweets because of the two networks you and I mentioned. And occasionally when you guys post it here. You can now blame yourselves for amping it up as well.
Quote: AxelWolfI only know what Trump tweets because of the two networks you and I mentioned. And occasionally when you guys post it here. You can now blame yourselves for amping it up as well.
Why is repeating or reporting a president’s public statements somehow problematic or controversial?
It speaks to how much of a despicable circus Trump’s presidency is.
Quote: AxelWolfI was not just talking about CNN or MSNBC.
You may assume I watch Fox news? I almost never watch Fox news. I normally watch CNN and MSNBC.
And I don't do twitter.
I only know what Trump tweets because of the two networks you and I mentioned. And occasionally when you guys post it here. You can now blame yourselves for amping it up as well.
You can't discount anything Trump says, or fail to report it. He's the PRESIDENT of the freakin US. He's totally perverted the office into his personal vendetta platform, completely disregarding his responsibility and obligation to any kind of respectable standard while abusing the power of the office. But no matter how whack-job his stuff is, or how often he contradicts himself, or how often his Administration has to backtrack his mutterings, there is no choice for any news organization.
All of them have stopped broadcasting his vile rallys live, but all of them also report new attacks and disparagements from those, policy statements, and cover any statements about current events. I think that was a correct decision. There are fair broadcast laws that were sorely abused during the primaries in 2016, with no other candidate getting 1/10th of the air time Trump did.
So now, when he's out stumping for his chosen followers, the networks (at least) owe minute for minute equal time to that person's opponent, for at least any portion of the coverage that mentions the candidates names or his endorsement of them.
Does anyone wonder who's actually doing his job while he does one rally after another? Or who's paying for them? I certainly do. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars each time he does one, the advance team, moving AF1, the venue, all the security and cleanup. Who is paying for that?
The nerve of him, whining about his hair yesterday because he stopped to answer questions in the rain and it got wet. Questions about a hate crime and massacre in a synagogue. And he resented stopping to discuss it. Good grief.
Quote: AxelWolfI only know what Trump tweets because of the two networks you and I mentioned. And occasionally when you guys post it here. You can now blame yourselves for amping it up as well.
Discussing Trumps direct unedited direct communication to the planet is not "amping it up"
Discussing dumb and absurd tweets from the most powerful person on the planet is a valid topic of discussion without "amping it up"
to me "amping it up are some of Maxpen's posts regarding Michelle Obama or from the left toad penis stories. Its juvenile and just inflames the other side.
That's kind of weak amping it up
Real serious amping it up is the dark underside corners of the internet where extremist left and right crazies gather agreeing on hate.
We need a President toning down the hate rather then inflaming it
Quote: beachbumbabsY There are fair broadcast laws that were sorely abused during the primaries in 2016, with no other candidate getting 1/10th of the air time Trump did.
Trump got air time because:
1. Trump granted interviews and took all the time that was offered. Jeb did not do this, made it hard to deal with him. I am sure others did the same, only appearing when it was good for them. Hillary was known to be hard to deal with and only let the "right" people near her.
2. When Trump was on, people tuned it. He has as I have said for years here, the alpha-male personality. They did not care to hear what Carly Fiorina had to say in this way, to name one. This was unusual in that Trump was not a candidate chosen by the establishment. He pushed thru a hostile party and media. The media had no choice but to cover because the people voted with their eyeballs.
Quote:So now, when he's out stumping for his chosen followers, the networks (at least) owe minute for minute equal time to that person's opponent, for at least any portion of the coverage that mentions the candidates names or his endorsement of them.
Why would the networks "owe" the other candidate anything?
Quote:Does anyone wonder who's actually doing his job while he does one rally after another? Or who's paying for them? I certainly do. It costs hundreds of thousands of dollars each time he does one, the advance team, moving AF1, the venue, all the security and cleanup. Who is paying for that?
Did you wonder this under Obama?
“Amping it up” is when the president condemns Nazis and white supremacists, but the media reports it as him being a Nazi.
It’s when the president says the members of MS-13 (the gang) are animals, but the media reports it as if he was talking about minorities in general and not gang members.
It’s when the president wants to build a southern wall and put a stop to illegal immigration, but the media reports it as Trump being a racist for some reason.
It’s when a man (Kavanaugh) is accused of rape by a woman who, for all intense and purposes, remembers nothing about her supposed rape, but the media reports it as if Kavanaugh is 100% guilty.
It’s when the media tries to tear apart the police for when they shoot a black man but there’s only crickets to be heard when it’s a white person who’s shot. Or better yet, as soon as a mass shooting is discovered to be done by someone other than a white male, media coverage just about stops. If the person is partially white, then they’ll be reported on as being white. But if the person is shot by police, that person would be a minority.
And here y’all be like, “Well oh gee, Rachel Madcow said grass is green and the sky is blue, those things are true, so what’s the problem? Are you guys saying grass isn’t green or the sky isn’t blue?!!”
Quote: AZDuffmanTrump got air time because:
1. Trump granted interviews and took all the time that was offered. Jeb did not do this, made it hard to deal with him. I am sure others did the same, only appearing when it was good for them. Hillary was known to be hard to deal with and only let the "right" people near her.
2. When Trump was on, people tuned it. He has as I have said for years here, the alpha-male personality. They did not care to hear what Carly Fiorina had to say in this way, to name one. This was unusual in that Trump was not a candidate chosen by the establishment. He pushed thru a hostile party and media. The media had no choice but to cover because the people voted with their eyeballs.
Why would the networks "owe" the other candidate anything?
Did you wonder this under Obama?
Many candidates were shut out of programs, complained about it were ignored.
FEC rules demand equal time when using broadcasting on public airwaves, which all of the networks do, that's why.
I didn't have to wonder under Obama. His administration and the people he campaigned for released reports showing how much of his expenses were covered by a campaign or the DNC. Seen any of those for all these rallies? Didn't think so.
Quote: beachbumbabsMany candidates were shut out of programs, complained about it were ignored.
Because they were not serious candidates and nobody was interested in them. You cannot just say, "I am running" and get to sit at the grown-ups table.
Quote:FEC rules demand equal time when using broadcasting on public airwaves, which all of the networks do, that's why.
The Fairness Doctrine was abolished 30 years ago. Most of the coverage is now on cable, not the public airwaves. Fringe candidates will not get the same amount of time as serious ones.
Quote:I didn't have to wonder under Obama. His administration and the people he campaigned for released reports showing how much of his expenses were covered by a campaign or the DNC. Seen any of those for all these rallies? Didn't think so.
Haven't looked. Doubt they would even be released yet. A POTUS stopping at a campaign while doing business somewhere else happens. Maybe you should look to see what has or has not been reported. I do not look as I have this thing called a life and I do not waste it reading reports that do not affect it.
Quote: AZDuffmanBecause they were not serious candidates and nobody was interested in them. You cannot just say, "I am running" and get to sit at the grown-ups table.
The Fairness Doctrine was abolished 30 years ago. Most of the coverage is now on cable, not the public airwaves. Fringe candidates will not get the same amount of time as serious ones.
Haven't looked. Doubt they would even be released yet. A POTUS stopping at a campaign while doing business somewhere else happens. Maybe you should look to see what has or has not been reported. I do not look as I have this thing called a life and I do not waste it reading reports that do not affect it.
Every so often, while wandering thru the chum, one comes across a line worth its weight in comedy gold. That last line is a perfect example.
Quote: billryanEvery so often, while wandering thru the chum, one comes across a line worth its weight in comedy gold. That last line is a perfect example.
Not letting thing that you cannot control is "comedy?" If more people took my position we would not have the TDS that we have today.
We should all buy him a McRib!
