Singer Amy Winehouse found dead
http://www.cnn.com/2011/WORLD/europe/07/23/amy.winehouse.dies/
Without Googling, I'm going to go with Janice Joplin and the Girl's side and Buddy Holly on the Guy's side.Quote: buzzpaffSo SAD. Can anyone name the 2 singers, one male and one female, both dead before 1972, and the only million selling songs were after their deaths ?
Feel guilty doing trivia under the circumstances.
Obviously she was too weak to handle her fame.
Unique, but not a first rate talent.
I'm bettting she OD'd.
Meh.
the luckiest of us have non-harmful addictions.
OAD, you back stateside?
Well, ironically, in one of her top hits, if not in her number one hit, she sings, "Tried to make me go to rehab, I said no...no...no..."Quote: AZDuffmanDon't know even one song she did, I'm just not hip I guess.
She was shown recently on TMZ stumbling on stage super super intoxicated. This was like a week or two ago.
I hate to say this but it just makes me think that Whitney Houston is not far behind.
Quote: HotBlondeWell, ironically, in one of her top hits, if not in her number one hit, she sings, "Tried to make me go to rehab, I said no...no...no..."
I wasn't sure I knew any of her songs either, but I've heard this one and liked it.
Sad that she didn't find the help she needed.
Quote: HotBlondeSo sad.
Well, ironically, in one of her top hits, if not in her number one hit, she sings, "Tried to make me go to rehab, I said no...no...no..."
She was shown recently on TMZ stumbling on stage super super intoxicated. This was like a week or two ago.
I hate to say this but it just makes me think that Whitney Houston is not far behind.
I asked a buddy of mine if it was just me or do you sort of have to have at least half a disaster of a life to be a music star.
Don't know much on Whitney but to get hooked on crack, a cheapo drug, when you are making millions makes me think the personality traits of an addict and artist are connected. I have read Whitney is a royal pain in real life. Article was about limo drivers and the one guy said he refused to drive here as, "they weren't offering enough money because there isn't enough money." Said when they tried to book her that no limo driver ever wanted to do it.
Quote: OneAngryDwarfNot totally unexpected, but still sad. She joins the '27 club' alongside Jim Morrison, Janis Joplin, and Jimi Hendrix.
She may have been 27, but one can not compare her to Morrison, Hendrix or Joplin. Six months from now Winehouse CDs will be on the 99 cents rack whereas 30+ years later people are still buying music from talented artists like Hendrix, etc.
Quote: AZDuffmanI asked a buddy of mine if it was just me or do you sort of have to have at least half a disaster of a life to be a music star.
Official video for Rehab, Amy Winehouse
Quote: mgreicheShe may have been 27, but one can not compare her to Morrison, Hendrix or Joplin. Six months from now Winehouse CDs will be on the 99 cents rack whereas 30+ years later people are still buying music from talented artists like Hendrix, etc.
I think Rehab will still be listened to years later. I don't know anything about the rest of her material.
There's plenty of one hit wonders still being played. (although there's a lot of classics sold in 99 cent bins too)
Quote: AZDuffmanI asked a buddy of mine if it was just me or do you sort of have to have at least half a disaster of a life to be a music star.
Not sure if this was tounge in cheek, but it is an interesting question. A good many great artists seem to have deep emotional / chemical issues. Of course you have straight edges that have mass appeal and set records, Celine Dion comes to mind, but of the Greats, the Innovators, a vast number are names like Hendrix, Jagger, Joplin, Cash, Charles....it makes one wonder.
Personally, I know that music has somewhat lost its allure since I stopped using. I still great, don't get me wrong, but it was just different under the influence. I'd say there's definately something to your question, and I'd much rather listen to a train wreck (Ozzy) than a straight arrow (Bieber).
Quote: FaceA good many great artists seem to have deep emotional / chemical issues. Of course you have straight edges that have mass appeal and set records, Celine Dion comes to mind, but of the Greats, the Innovators, a vast number are names like Hendrix, Jagger, Joplin, Cash, Charles....it makes one wonder.
Artists vary the same way all other people do. Perhaps drugs are more strongly associated with music and musicians, but that's far from saying all musicians are talented addicts or junkies.
Take a band of innovators: the Beatles. Sure, they had lots of help from George Martin, but they qualify. Yes they did drugs. They wrote a song about an acid trip, even. But later they cleaned up and kept on producing music for decades. Lennon had just gotten back into the game when he was murdered.
So I'm sure there are trends, but as with most individuals generalizations are largely worthless.
Ken
Quote: NareedArtists vary the same way all other people do. Perhaps drugs are more strongly associated with music and musicians, but that's far from saying all musicians are talented addicts or junkies.
Take a band of innovators: the Beatles. Sure, they had lots of help from George Martin, but they qualify. Yes they did drugs. They wrote a song about an acid trip, even. But later they cleaned up and kept on producing music for decades. Lennon had just gotten back into the game when he was murdered.
So I'm sure there are trends, but as with most individuals generalizations are largely worthless.
Oh, I wasn't saying they all are, I hope that wasn't how it was taken. There are a ton of straight edge, Jesus-lovin, mama respectin' Country singers that I love and that make good music. I just feel that there's SOMETHING to the thought AZ expressed. Perhaps because of my own experiences I'm more biased towards those who express that lifestyle, which may explain why the acid-y Beatles are my favorite kind and I don't much care for the rest of their work. Had I made better life decisions, maybe I'd think Hendrix was no big deal and Pink Floyd sucked, but I didn't, and I don't.
Quote: Nareed
Take a band of innovators: the Beatles. Sure, they had lots of help from George Martin, but they qualify. Yes they did drugs. They wrote a song about an acid trip, even. But later they cleaned up and kept on producing music for decades. Lennon had just gotten back into the game when he was murdered.
This could possibly be the understatement of the century! ''A band of innovators''? THE band of innovators, perhaps? People much smarter than us have deemed them the most influential band in history. Sir George was a huge help, but more to take the boys vision and make it real, than actually innovating. To even mention Winehouse with The Beatles is nuts.
OK, thats enough from me....and I can't believe I am agreeing with Mr. J....who cares, she did it to herself, and Rehab wasn't that great anyway!
Actually, I don't know how many classical composers were drug or alcohol users, or to what extent if they were.
Ken
Quote: avargovThis could possibly be the understatement of the century!
Oh, it's a young century yet. I'm sure it will be topped before the decade is out ;)
Quote: avargovNareed, my man, you are quite correct ;-) and Mr. J, don't go overboard bro!
No problem but I am correct.
Ken
Franz Liszt was a freak, then he became a monk to 'work out the demons' so to speak.Quote: rxwineWell, there's always Beethoven...
Actually, I don't know how many classical composers were drug or alcohol users, or to what extent if they were.
Quote:Angela Scoular, a former Bond girl, died after drinking drain cleaner and pouring it over her body, an inquest in London heard Wednesday.
Scoular, 65, ingested One Shot Instant Drain Cleaner after a long battle with alcoholism, bipolar disorder, bowel cancer and anxiety over debts incurred from manic shopping trips.
The actress, who played Buttercup in the 1966 spoof "Casino Royale" and Ruby Bartlett in "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" in 1969, suffered 40 percent burns to her body, throat and dietary tract from the chemical, which contained 91 percent sulfuric acid.
Scoular had not been drinking on the morning of her death and left no suicide note, Westminster Coroner's Court heard.
But in the months before she had been consuming half a bottle of brandy a day and was behaving erratically. She bought things she knew she could not afford, had several parking fines and was convicted of drunk driving. Her anxiety was heightened by the fear that her cancer, for which she had had chemotherapy and radiotherapy, would return.
On the morning of her death on April 11, her husband, the British comic actor Leslie Phillips, gave her a cup of tea and a banana in bed. Later she got up, fetched the cleaner bottle from under the sink and drank from it. She then ran outside their home and poured the rest of the bottle over her body.
Scoular then fell down some steps, fracturing her spine in several places, the inquest heard.
http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2011/07/20/former-bond-bombshell-dies-after-drinking-drain-cleaner/
Quote: FaceNot sure if this was tounge in cheek, but it is an interesting question. A good many great artists seem to have deep emotional / chemical issues. Of course you have straight edges that have mass appeal and set records, Celine Dion comes to mind, but of the Greats, the Innovators, a vast number are names like Hendrix, Jagger, Joplin, Cash, Charles....it makes one wonder.
I was at least somewhat serious on it. I know there are some straight-arrows out there who perform well. I know Dean Martin drank ginger-ale onstage and his drunk-while-performing was an act. But I have also seen how many big-time performers have issues. Even local bands seem to fall into this. One "local" band from around town had to throw out their lead singer who was a manic depressive. Look at the "artist" brother on "American Chopper." I will concede much but not all of that show is an act, but look at him. A total emional disaster. What doesn't fit for him is his art is terrible.
Sometime, somewhere when we were learning about drugs in school there was some actor who said why some of this was. The guy (I remember it was a guy) said as an actor or performer you go from being cheered by up to 10s of thousands to being alone in your room. Some people don't mind that and even prefer it (Joe DiMagio for one) but for many it is too much to take. If you concede you need to be an attention-whore to get into performing in the first place this makes sense. So, anyways, the guy said drugs releived that feeling.
I do believe there is something in the brain that when you have a talented, creative side you lose something in logical thinking.
There but for the grace of God goes I.
Quote: mrjjjI'm hardcore. ASSUMING drugs and/or alcohol are to blame, I have no sympathy. She did it to herself.
Ken
I do have sympathy for this young woman and her family regardless of the circumstances of her death, but I completely agree with you that she did it to herself. I wonder how many enablers she was surrounded by who were afraid to speak up for various reasons.
I'm hardcore. ASSUMING drugs and/or alcohol are to blame, I have no sympathy. She did it to herself.
Ken
Must be nice to be a cold hearted bastard
Quote: rxwineWell, there's always Beethoven...
Actually, I don't know how many classical composers were drug or alcohol users, or to what extent if they were.
If this was in response to my post, I also included "emotional issues" along with drug use. If in response to AZ's, he said they seemed to have to be a train wreck. I think both our thoughts apply to both of these classical masters. If Amadeus was from my time, I'd make a hefty wager he would have already succumbed to a massive cocaine/exctasy binge.
Quote: HotBlondeAmy Winehouse's autopsy did not establish a formal cause of death.
The initial autopsy didn't... the toxicology tests will take longer. as it's being treated as non-suspicious it'll go through the standard Metropolitan Police Forensics process, which can take a while.
Quote: rdw4potusWhat is up with the 27 thing? Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse. How different would the music world be if we'd had a few more years of The Doors, Hendrix, or Nirvana?
Gawd, I hate to think what would have happened with more of the Doors. Their "songs" were long and noodling enough to begin with, and artists seem to get more and more over produced and concepty as their careers go along.
More Hendrix or Nrivana would have been good. Janis Joplin I can take or leave, and I really don't consider Amy Winehouse in such elite company.
Quote: thecesspitGawd, I hate to think what would have happened with more of the Doors. Their "songs" were long and noodling enough to begin with, and artists seem to get more and more over produced and concepty as their careers go along.
More Hendrix or Nrivana would have been good. Janis Joplin I can take or leave, and I really don't consider Amy Winehouse in such elite company.
Agreed about Winehouse. "You Know I'm No Good" and "Rehab" are catchy but not really legend-making. I'm also not all that high on Joplin (irony is intentional). I think the Doors are partly responsible for a lot of pretty cool synth-heavy music from the '70s and early '80s, though I'm not super high on the Doors themselves. Hendrix and Cobain are just ground-breaking genre-changing musicians, and it's a shame that they couldn't handle the pressures of life at the top a little better.
It's the number that really strikes me. Why 27 years? Is it just a coincidence?
Quote: rdw4potusAgreed about Winehouse. "You Know I'm No Good" and "Rehab" are catchy but not really legend-making. I'm also not all that high on Joplin (irony is intentional). I think the Doors are partly responsible for a lot of pretty cool synth-heavy music from the '70s and early '80s, though I'm not super high on the Doors themselves. Hendrix and Cobain are just ground-breaking genre-changing musicians, and it's a shame that they couldn't handle the pressures of life at the top a little better.
It's the number that really strikes me. Why 27 years? Is it just a coincidence?
Kind of. It's going to be a relatively rare event when a world famous musician dies young. As it's a random, rare event, the chances are one age will will occur more than any other. 27 is what's occurred.
There's possibly some bias when there's heightened risk for long term drug abuse. For example Bradley Nowell from Sublime died at aged 28, Hillel Slovak of the Chilli Peppers, 26, Tim Buckley, 28, Shannon Hoon (Blind melon's singer), 28. Frankie Lymon, 25 etc... I could go on searching on wikipedia, but you get the idea.
Quote: rdw4potusIt's the number that really strikes me. Why 27 years? Is it just a coincidence?
Although I don't identify 27 with any particular mental shift in one's perception, perhaps that's part of it. One can wake up from youthful indulgence at some point. There's probably a particular misery of feeling like you have the world at your fingers, yet are intensely miserable (from the increasing effects of addiction and physical decline).
Quote: rxwineAlthough I don't identify 27 with any particular mental shift in one's perception, perhaps that's part of it. One can wake up from youthful indulgence at some point. There's probably a particular misery of feeling like you have the world at your fingers, yet are intensely miserable (from the increasing effects of addiction and physical decline).
The "27" club, plus the near misses noted (Nowell, Slovak, etc) make sense from my view. Of course this is just one person's experience and I can only speak for myself, but in my case that WAS the time frame when I realized something needed to be done. At 18, 20, 22, you could go on a bender, feel like a zombie or like death warmed over the next day, then be pretty much normal after that. Just as at 18, 20, 22, you could fall off a cliff or wreck up real bad, shake it off, and not be sore 2 days later. Once I hit my mid 20's, those benders took longer to recover from, and sports injuries became more severe and took longer to heal.
I think there's a definate shift in body chemistry around that age, kind of the end of the hormone surge and the end of the infinite healing one's body seems to be capable of during youth. Fortunately for me, I noticed the shift. Some are not so lucky.
Quote: FaceThe "27" club, plus the near misses noted (Nowell, Slovak, etc) make sense from my view. Of course this is just one person's experience and I can only speak for myself, but in my case that WAS the time frame when I realized something needed to be done. At 18, 20, 22, you could go on a bender, feel like a zombie or like death warmed over the next day, then be pretty much normal after that. Just as at 18, 20, 22, you could fall off a cliff or wreck up real bad, shake it off, and not be sore 2 days later. Once I hit my mid 20's, those benders took longer to recover from, and sports injuries became more severe and took longer to heal.
I think there's a definate shift in body chemistry around that age, kind of the end of the hormone surge and the end of the infinite healing one's body seems to be capable of during youth. Fortunately for me, I noticed the shift. Some are not so lucky.
I go with the coincidence, combined with the fact that it does take a while of using drugs until you are ingesting enough that the body doesn't recover.
| Jones , Brian | 28-Feb-42 | 3-Jul-69 | 27.3 |
|---|---|---|---|
| Hendrix , Jimmy | 27-Nov-42 | 18-Sep-70 | 27.8 |
| Joplin , Janis | 19-Jan-43 | 4-Oct-70 | 27.7 |
| Morrison , James | 8-Dec-43 | 3-Jul-71 | 27.6 |
| Cobain , Kurt | 20-Feb-67 | 5-Apr-94 | 27.1 |
| WineHouse , Amy | 14-Sep-83 | 23-Jul-11 | 27.9 |
Quote: s2dbakerI wonder what the standard deviation and mean are for rock star ODs. Is it substantially different for drummers?
Keith Moon and John Bonham were both 32 when they died. Maybe drummers have a higher tolerance?
Her music was interesting and she had an interesting voice and singing style.
Quote: KeyserThe people closest to her should have done absolutely everything they could have done to get between her and the drugs.
Usually the people closest to rock stars want to get between them and their money.
Thrill seeking addictions? I don't know. I've met young women who were skydivers and I once attended a torch singer's Senior Recital where she was clearly drunk. Thrills and addictions have effects on careers. Sometimes they are obvious, sometimes they are subtle, but the effect is ever present. We see the experienced skydiver with a tangled streamer hit the ground and are fortunate enough to be able to go over and be there when one brave soul says 'we might as well find out' and pulls the cord on her emergency chute only to find that it works perfectly. So one thrill seeking moment turned out to be fatal when distracted by the failure of her main chute she simply forgot about the reserve chute. So is there really a difference between the sober and well-focused careerwoman who forgets her reserve chute and the young singer who is perpetually drunk even before she is graduated? Is it the degree of risk or the degree of the addiction's power?
Those who know their Pig Latin will recognize what Anita O'Day's interest was. Atleast up until the time of her first heroin when she told one of her friends: this is better than a martini and a few moments later this is better than sex. For quite a while the money continued but it was often interrupted by a few stints at the Hotel California (the jazz world's name for the State Sponsored Rehab) about an hour outside of Los Angeles.
We are the ones who enable the drug culture amongst pop stars. We buy the tickets. Look at that teen age girl who was one of those Apple Switchers. She turned one gig in a sixty second commercial into world wide notoriety, a free year-long trip to France and a gig staring in a movie and it was all because it looked as if she had done that Apple commercial while stoned. She wasn't even stoned at the time, just tired from waiting around since she was the last one to be filmed that day and she was under the effects of a simple anti-histamine cold tablet, that's all. Yet the world embraced her for being "stoned" on television.
So is it really the people close to the stars that bear responsibility or is it those more removed from the pills and liquor who envy the daring that they see in others that are ones who are most responsible?
Quote: WizardofEnglandI thought this forum of all the ones I post on would take the moral high ground. How wrong I was.
Yeah, but we're not reporting the news here. Else (supposedly) someone would be paying me to stick just to the facts I know and not speculation.
You're getting what you paid for.
What'd you pay?
Quote: rdw4potusWhat is up with the 27 thing? Joplin, Hendrix, Morrison, Kurt Cobain, Amy Winehouse. How different would the music world be if we'd had a few more years of The Doors, Hendrix, or Nirvana?
Nirvana probably wouldn't have been as big as they were had Kurt not died. Blasphemous as it might be to suggest in certain circles, I'm not sure that they were really as influential as people say.
Another post in this thread is exactly correct in that the Doors were in a major downswing when Morrison died. Morrison was fat and drunk and bumbling around Paris while the rest of the band was back in California recording cocktail jazz at the end.
A few more Hendrix records? Damn, that might have been neat.
Amy Winehouse? Great voice, but Mark Ronson's really not overlooking anything when he says he makes his money with a prominent brass section and other people's songs.
Quote: WizardofEnglandAs much as I hated the way she behaved and the poor example she set to the youth of today, and as much as I hated her music. I am waiting until the final verdict. How are you guys going to feel if it turns out she killed herself rather than over-dosed on drugs? Or she died of a heart attack or was maybe even murdered. It is highly likely drugs played a part, but its the same as any addiction, and I think we are all quick to judge with knowing any of the facts. I thought this forum of all the ones I post on would take the moral high ground. How wrong I was.
What if she did kill her self? Are you saying we shouldn't blame the drugs at all? Cobain wasn't killed by heroin? Moon wasn't killed by alcoholism?
Quote: WizardofEnglandHow are you guys going to feel if it turns out she killed herself rather than over-dosed on drugs? Or she died of a heart attack or was maybe even murdered. It is highly likely drugs played a part, but its the same as any addiction, and I think we are all quick to judge with knowing any of the facts.
Heavy, long-term use of things like coke or heroin mess up the brain and body so much, it's hard to say suicide, stroke, heart attack or even respiratory arrest were not directly related to drugs and/or alcohol. Even murder could be related, say if she owed money to her supplier. Dying of drugs does not mean an overdose, just that drugs played a direct part in the death.
Quote:I thought this forum of all the ones I post on would take the moral high ground. How wrong I was.
In a forum like this, I'd have expected lines on cause of death.
I just thought that one of the most intelligent forums I know would want to see evidence before making an assumption. Do you lot really believe everything the media report?
Even if it was a drugs related death, is it not the same as someone killing themselves because they lost all their money on the latest sure fire way of beating roulette?
