Whale Wars
You guys are good at calling B.S., and of course this is just another "reality show", so I wonder how much is "reality" and how much is "show". When the Zodiac flipped in season 1, Capt Watson didn't look all too worried. And when he "got shot" in season 2, well hell, I didn't believe that for a second. He just happened to have on his kevlar and it just happened to hit his "badge" in an oh-so-Hollywood fashion? C'mon. Even war veterans and police officers seize up when they've been shot, and he just kind of plays it off with no stress, no trembling hands, just "oh, I've been shot. Look, it hit my badge." Pfft.
Should these guys be given credence, or should I just shut up and watch like a good smark?
Also, what's up with him flying a Hiawatha flag? Is he a member of the Iroquois, or is it just another pose?
Not quite sure what a smark is but I think the show is market to them.
When a Portuguese judge ordered him to give up his ship in compensation for blowing up the whaling ship, he sank his own ship instead.
He has been riding the train in Canada for a long time, making money off the donors.
Quote: pacomartin
He has been riding the train in Canada for a long time, making money off the donors.
These "do-gooders" might actually impress me if they held actual jobs.
Quote: vert1276I watch the show....But I might be the only one who roots for the whalers LOL......I hate dirty hippies :)
I root for the whalers, or rather I root against the crybaby activists. They launched countless attacks against the whaling ships and when they threw flashbangs back at them they were upset and apparently surprised. They drive their ship within feet of another vessel and get banged up and then whine. The whole getting shot thing showed just how little integrity Paul Watson has.
Mark
Quote: AZDuffmanThese "do-gooders" might actually impress me if they held actual jobs.
Hard to hold a job and be a professional do-gooder at the same time.
You can read that any way you want :)
Don't watch them.
Quote: dmDarn, I heeded your advice before you gave it.
Me too. I've never watched one.
Quote: ten2winI'm sorry, I thought this thread title was about Casinos fighting for High-Rollers!
Now I would watch that show!
Quote: ten2winI'm sorry, I thought this thread title was about Casinos fighting for High-Rollers!
Now that you mention it, that might be a good basis and name for the next scripted TV Show based on Las Vegas. Ed DeLine and Dan Tanna could be part of security.......
I've almost lost all interest in the show, even from that part of me that enjoys watching train wrecks (Housewives, anyone?) but I'm kind of bothered by the Hiawatha flag. I was kind of hoping the internet incarnate (that's you, paco ;)) would know. What would a group of tribes from Northeast US / Southeast CA possibly have to do with whales? None of the Six Nations has any connection to whales, either culturally or spiritually.
Quote: FaceI'm kind of bothered by the Hiawatha flag. I was kind of hoping the internet incarnate (that's you, paco ;)) would know. What would a group of tribes from Northeast US / Southeast CA possibly have to do with whales? None of the Six Nations has any connection to whales, either culturally or spiritually.
I don't know about internet incarnate, but I can tell you a story from my work. I used to manage a navy sonar program called Low Frequency Active SONAR. Paul Watson was one of many people who used to protest the system, and get his two cents into the media (see article below).
The Navy was sued in Hawaii by a Native Hawaiian group that was planning a ceremony for the summer solstice. We were operating the LFA SONAR in waters very close to the Heaiu (temple) on the big island of Hawaii. The lawsuit said that we were infringing on their freedom to worship because they held the whales sacred and we were frightening the whales. This kind of lawsuit happens fairly often to the government (i.e. NASA is sued by a group that worships the moon, and doesn't think that people should walk on the moon).
One of the observations I made was that the person who was suing did not seem to know much about his native culture. The indigenous Hawaiians did not worship whales, although they had an extensive worship system built around sharks, who are the most aggressive predators native to the Hawaiian islands.
One of the better known curiosities about Whale research in Hawaii is that there is no mention of them in the oral history of the native Hawaiians (they had no written language). As you can see whales jumping out of the water if you stand on a hill near the beach on some of the islands, there was a lot of speculation as to if the whales were not there before the 19th century and Europeans visited Hawaii.
It is equally possible that the whales were there, but were of almost no interest to the people. While whales hold a pre-eminent position in our culture of the last forty years, they may have been of no interest to indigenous people who couldn't catch them, eat them, or be afraid of them.
In any event, I think people just jam cultural references together in a kind of Gaia world, without any real concern if they in fact are related. I know one group went to sea and played a string quartet for the whales that was projected under the ocean with a transducer. There is no evidence that the whales care about classical music, or even notice it. But it was still a big event.
Quote: ENS
Sonar Issue Heads for Federal Court Showdown
WASHINGTON, DC, June 16, 2003 (ENS) - A long awaited courtroom battle will begin June 30 to determine whether the U.S. Navy can deploy its Low
Frequency Active sonar system, a new technology that scientists say blasts ocean habitat with noise so intense it can maim, deafen and even kill marine mammals.
The National Resources Defense Council (NRDC) is taking the Bush administration to court over the sonar system. Last year the National Marine Fisheries Service issued the Navy a permit to deploy the Surveillance Towed Array Sensor System (SURTASS) Low Frequency Active (LFA) Low Frequency sonar over 75 percent of the world's oceans.
The NRDC says deployment of the sonar will harass or injure up to 12 percent of every single marine mammal species. Whales, dolphins and seals have
been using sonar for thousands of years for communication purposes and echolocation. Echolocation works by the animals sending sonar clicks to
find their favorite prey species.
The U.S. Navy says the low frequency sonar booms are necessary to protect American ships and coastlines. Submarines are hard to detect, and the benefits include the ability to locate enemy submarines before they are able to launch any sort of attack.
Low Frequency Active sonar sends waves of low frequency sound or pings into the ocean waters. If these pings intersect an enemy submarine, they will rebound back to the source ship. The ship that carries the sonar system will also have a towed passive sonar system to detect rebounding signals from submarines.
Since sound travels extremely well in water, these pings at the sound level of 235 decibels will travel across entire ocean basins. They are louder than the noise made by a jet takeoff which measures 150 decibels at 25 meters distance, enough to rupture a human eardrum. According to U.S. Navy documents, marine mammals will suffer harm when subjected to a sound louder than 180 decibels.
Conservationists and some scientists are warning that LFA sonar may threaten the very survival of entire populations of whales. At close range, the system's shock waves are so intense they can destroy a whale's eardrums, cause its lungs to hemorrhage, and even cause death.
Two years ago, testing of a lower intensity Navy sonar in a mid-frequency range caused a mass stranding of whales in the Bahamas. Whales from three different species died, their inner ears bleeding from the explosive power of the sonar signal.
Last month, a group of biologists off the coast of Washington state witnessed a "stampede" of distressed marine mammals as a U.S. destroyer operating a powerful mid-frequency sonar system passed. Over the next several days, 10 porpoises were discovered stranded on nearby beaches.
The NRDC went to court on this issue last fall, and a federal judge blocked global deployment of the SURTASS sonar system until a full trial could be held.
"Just why is this LFA system being deployed? It is only useful in nuclear submarine warfare," said Paul Watson, founder of the Sea Shepherd Conservation Society, and an early member of Greenpeace.
"The Soviets are not a threat anymore," Watson said. "Terrorists do not deploy submarines. None of the so-called axis of evil nations have submarines. This is simply one of those pork barrel, waste the taxpayers money schemes, but this time with the potential for serious global destruction to the world's whales and dolphins."
Sandra Abels
Ocean Defense International
The government defended itself not by attacking this man's personal beliefs. but by saying that they had no legal power to address any activity that would be no closer than then three miles away from the temple out at sea. The judge reluctantly agreed with the government defense. They responded by asking us to voluntarily cease operations during the solstice. We agreed to move to the southern portion of the island for the day. I remember that the waves beat the shit out of the ship that day because the southern portion of the island was directly in the trade winds.
Quote: vert1276I watch the show....But I might be the only one who roots for the whalers LOL......I hate dirty hippies :)
You're not the only one!
Quote: ten2winI'm sorry, I thought this thread title was about Casinos fighting for High-Rollers!
No that idea has some promise!
Quote: pacomartinI don't know about internet incarnate...
I hope you're not offended by my suspicions that you're not a real person ;) I'm just messing with you. It's my weird way of paying a compliment, since you seem to know obscure details about many different subjects.
Quote: pacomartinThe Navy was sued in Hawaii by a Native Hawaiian group that was planning a ceremony for the summer solstice...In any event, I think people just jam cultural references together in a kind of Gaia world, without any real concern if they in fact are related.
I'm not sure if there's confusion between Hiawatha and Hawaiian, or if you were simply just offering an example. In case of the former, the Hiawatha belt (shown above) represents the then 5 nations of the Haudenosaunee. Their tribal lands included southeastern Ontario, most of NY and northern PA. I am almost positive it did not extend to the Altlantic. In both spiritual and cultural aspects, many animals are held in high regards, whether as clan names, spiritual guides, or omens, and are key players in their story of creation. While the sea is mentioned, and sea creatures play a role (the earth was made on the back of a sea turtle who caught Sky Woman after she fell), I don't recall the mention of whales or any other marine mammal in any other story or part of culture. In fact, the connection to the sea, as far as I can recall, is only present in the story of the original creation of the world. Perhaps, like you said, it's just the Gaia thing, but of the multitude of tribes present in North America, why pick mine? At least the Inuit have a connection to the sea. At least the mid-west tribes felt the pain of losing the bison. Why pick a tribe that has no connection to your cause?
Like I said, it just bothers me. I kind of think this guy is a d-bag, and being that I'm Seneca and know of no connection any of the Six Nations has to Watson, I feel sort of offended. Imagine you hit the casino and see "All New 11:10 Blackjack!! Brought to you by pacomartin Inc." You'd be like "WTF?!" You wouldn't want your name connected to bullsh*t, and neither do I. His "pirate flag" I understand. His port is in Dutch territory, I understand the Dutch flag. Why fly Hiawatha? I just don't see the connection. (And since you're the internet I thought I'd ask =P. j/k, I'll stop now ;))
Quote: FaceI'm not sure if there's confusion between Hiawatha and Hawaiian, or if you were simply just offering an example.
I was just offering an example from my own life involving something Paul Watson was related to. I wasn't confusing the two things.
It is common for these people to sort of run things together in a stream of consciousness. We would get testimony of spiritual visions, and alternate physics. It was very difficult to fight against.
Without knowing how he picked the flag of Hiawatha, my guess is that he saw it in a vision, or he found a potentially lucrative link that results in excess tax free contributions.
Save the Whales. Collect a complete set now.Quote: vert1276I watch the show....But I might be the only one who roots for the whalers LOL......I hate dirty hippies :)
Reality TV .... when did it start? The Louds on PBS? So now we watch yachting adventures in the antarctic ocean, drunken Jersey bums at the beach, some empty-headed Hollywood starlets with good publicity agents, some partying yuppies whose claim to fame is that they lived in Orange County, some bidders at storage auctions and tow truck drivers in Miami's South Beach.
It is indeed enough garbage.
Reality TV as we know it began back in 1992 when MTV first broadcast The Real World. It wasn't called that until 2002 when Survivor began.Quote: FleaStiffReality TV .... when did it start?
Quote: pacomartinReality TV as we know it began back in 1992 when MTV first broadcast The Real World. It wasn't called that until 2002 when Survivor began.
Actually, the first reality show was 'Cops', which FOX put on in 1989 because of the writers strike. Little did we know what it would spawn. Its still in production and is approaching its 1000th episode. Its seen in syndication in 125 countries and has been a giant cash cow for FOX. I still watch it several times a week, it never gets old.
Quote: pacomartinReality TV as we know it began back in 1992 when MTV first broadcast The Real World. It wasn't called that until 2002 when Survivor began.
I thought "Survivor" was a little older than that, say 1998-2000?
The "Reality TV" thing seems to have become blurred. Back in the day it was about people doing disgusting things and/or fighting with each other. Now you still have that but also "Shark Tank," "Food Network Star" (Formerly "The Next Food Network Star" and some others. The later ones I can actually watch as you might actually learn something. "Shark Tank" seems to get some smart ideas, though admittidly a few silly ones that seem to be put in as time filler. The "Survivor" ones I can't stand.
Quote: EvenBob"Reality television as it is currently understood can be directly linked to several television shows that began in the late 1980s and early 1990s. COPS, which first aired in the spring of 1989 and came about partly due to the need for new programming during the 1988 Writers Guild of America strike,[10] showed police officers on duty apprehending criminals; it introduced the camcorder look and cinéma vérité feel of much of later reality television."
Once again showing how by "winning" a strike you usually ultimately lose.
Oh well, if our kids ever want to know what a real whale looks like, we can take them to Sea World or show them pictures. Hell, there's probably videos on Youtube!!
Quote: FleaStiffReality TV .... when did it start? The Louds on PBS?
An American Family, a twelve part documentary concerning the Louds family of Santa Barbara, CA was broadcast in 1973.
Quote: woodytymeHhhmmm.....don't see one single thread about the fact the Japs are illegally killing thousands of whales under the guise of "research".
Oh well, if our kids ever want to know what a real whale looks like, we can take them to Sea World or show them pictures. Hell, there's probably videos on Youtube!!
The Japanese are researching to see if the last whale alive tastes as good as the first one they killed.
Quote: woodytymeHhhmmm.....don't see one single thread about the fact the Japs are illegally killing thousands of whales under the guise of "research".
Oh well, if our kids ever want to know what a real whale looks like, we can take them to Sea World or show them pictures. Hell, there's probably videos on Youtube!
Quote: Wavy70The Japanese are researching to see if the last whale alive tastes as good as the first one they killed.
I thought it was global warming that was killing all the whales?
Quote: woodytymeHhhmmm.....don't see one single thread about the fact the Japs are illegally killing thousands of whales under the guise of "research".
Personally, that's why I started watching. The idea that someone was standing up for a wrongdoing, and using his own skills, time and money to do so was interesting. A selfless act, in other words. However, after watching my views have changed. He no longer seems like the knight-errant I imagined him to be. I don't know what title to give him, but I'm pretty sure if I had the vocabulary, it would be negative. His person aside, I also haven't taken a stance on his or the Japanese's actions. Everything I know about the issue has come from information supplied by Watson. Picking sides based on only one sides version of the story is foolish, IMO.
As for reality TV, I'd say Cops was the first, although I don't consider it "reality TV" for the simple fact that it's actually reality. For what I consider reality TV, I'd say MTV's Real World was the first. It is crazy how popular it is. I'll admit I can't stand most, and also admit that I watch some anyway. Like "Housewives", I watch that with the Mrs on the regular. It's a mix of enjoying seeing how ridiculous and miserable these people are, and a mix of weirdly enjoying how enraged I become at them. It's surely unhealthy, and for some reason I can't stop. It hurts so good, I guess.
Quote: woodytymeHhhmmm.....don't see one single thread about the fact the Japs are illegally killing thousands of whales under the guise of "research".
Oh well, if our kids ever want to know what a real whale looks like, we can take them to Sea World or show them pictures. Hell, there's probably videos on Youtube!!
Illegal is a poor word. They are not breaking international law, they are stretching the conventions of a voluntary organization, the IWC. You can call it immoral, but it is not illegal.
The hunting of the smaller minke whales is not threatening the survival of any species. That damage was done many decades or centuries ago.
Quote: pacomartinIllegal is a poor word. They are not breaking international law, they are stretching the conventions of a voluntary organization, the IWC. You can call it immoral, but it is not illegal.
But, aren't they harvesting from a protected area? Sea Shepherd constanly uses the word "sanctuary". While minke whales aren't protected and may even be plentiful, I would think fishing/hunting a permissible species but from a protected area would still be illegal. Or is their claim of sactuary just another stretch of the truth?
If you look at the list for the last 25 years, the first thing you notice is that Japan takes the huge percentage of the take, and they are increasing in later years
CATCHES TAKEN: UNDER SCIENTIFIC PERMIT
Most nationa object to Japan's practices, but they are technically not illegal.
I knew a guy who was a principal in starting the Save The Whales movement in the 1960's. He is possibly the most famous Whale Researcher in the world today. He spent a lot of time in Japan in the 1970's and 1980's. Like most practical conservationists, he is convinced that the movement has to be tied to economics. In other words the country has to make more money by keeping the animals alive than by killing them.
Whale watching is a huge international business. Japan makes a lot of money in Okinawa on whale watching.
Quote: pacomartinAs far as I know the International Whaling Commission sanctuaries are the antartic and the Indian Oceans. Japan does not hunt in these oceans.
So....hmmm. So Japan hunts whales that aren't protected, in an area which is also unprotected? I wonder what the issue is then? If these were grouper, or cobia, or tuna or whatever, we'd probably never hear of it. I'll admit I'd be much more likely to spare a porpoise than a barracuda, simply because of that ingrained "mammals are intelligent" idea. But it's starting to look like that's all this is, that they "feel" that whales are somehow special because they communicate and are putting human lives at risk to force their ideas on others. I think whales are special too, don't get me wrong, but to wage war on the high seas because someone doesn't share that belief seems a little much. I have a connection to turtles, but when one of my neighbors kills one for soup or crafts, I don't run them over with my pick-up.
Quote: FleaStiffAn American Family, a twelve part documentary concerning the Louds family of Santa Barbara, CA was broadcast in 1973.
Based on the often manipulated reality show format of today...maybe it started even earlier.
Quote:The Adventures of Ozzie and Harriet premiered on ABC on October 10, 1952, staying until September 3, 1966. The show strove for realism and featured exterior shots of the Nelsons' actual southern California home at 1822 Camino Palmero Street in Los Angeles as the fictional Nelsons' home. Interior shots were filmed on a sound stage recreated to look like the real interior of the Nelsons' home. Like its radio predecessor (which finally ended in 1954), the series focused mainly on the Nelson family at home, dealing with run-of-the-mill problems. As the series progressed and the boys grew up, storylines involving various characters were introduced. Many of the series storylines were taken from the Nelsons' real life. When the real David and Rick got married, to June Blair and Kristin Harmon respectively, their wives joined the cast of Ozzie and Harriet, and the marriages were written into the series.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Adventures_of_Ozzie_and_Harriet
Quote: crazyiamQuote: woodytymeHhhmmm.....don't see one single thread about the fact the Japs are illegally killing thousands of whales under the guise of "research".
Oh well, if our kids ever want to know what a real whale looks like, we can take them to Sea World or show them pictures. Hell, there's probably videos on Youtube!
