Gallup poll on morality

In May 2011, Gallup polled Americans on their moral values, and the results are interesting. Among the findings: 66% of us oppose pornography, but only 36% oppose premarital sex. Just 38% oppose animal testing, but 62% oppose animal cloning. By a tiny margin, more Americans are opposed to gambling (31%) than to the death penalty (28%). And a whopping 80 percent of us consider suicide "morally wrong."

I'm wondering if the gambling opponents distinguish between negative-expectation wagers (casinos, lotteries, horses) and all forms of financial risk. Because insurance policies, home-ownership, entrepreneurship, and stocks & bonds all involve financial risk.

I'm also wondering how many pornography opponents are lying. If men make up 49% of the U.S. population, and 95% of U.S. men have used pornography, how is it that 66% of Americans oppose porn?

The animal fur question is silly because it's easy to be morally opposed to something you can't afford. A better question would be about the morality of leather.

Apparently 91% of us oppose marital infidelity, but that's hard to reconcile that with the 23% of us who oppose divorce. Do divorce opponents suggest tolerating an unfaithful spouse?

First off, I would have loved to see choices such as "driving below the speed of traffic in the leftmost lane of a freeway".

Otherwise, yeah, I don't care how confidential you say the survey is, not a lot of people are going to say they are "pro-porn" to a stranger. Incredibly vague, too.

Quite interesting. Unmaried sex is pretty OK, but less OK if you end up with child. You'd be better off being gay than ending up with child. You could abort, which is way less OK than being gay, but none of them are worse than watching porn. The only thing worse than porn is having sex with one who is not your wife, or one of your many wives.

Abortion is really not OK, unless you use the stem cells for research, and then it becomes pretty OK. Even better than testing on animals, or wearing their skin.

Killing yourself is Very Bad, unless you have a doctor do it, which is just kinda OK. Or you could have the State do it, with seems pretty acceptable.

People are funny

Quote: reno

I If men make up 49% of the U.S. population, and 95% of U.S. men have used pornography, how is it that 66% of Americans oppose porn?

Everybody lies about sex, money, and how much porn they watch. Porn has gotten so much better in the last 10 years. There are so many drop dead gorgeous women involved now, its almost unbelievable. I don't have time to look at much of it, but when I do, it just gets better and better. In the real old days, a cowboy would invest in one tintype of a naked woman and it would last him for years, out on the lonely trail. And she wasn't a beauty either.

Porn is awful

(mouseclick)

Oh, that's terrible

(mouseclick)

Oh my, that's bad!

(mouseclick)

Just..at lost for words

(mouseclick)

Unnatural. How do you bend that way?

(mouseclick)

etc.,

Quote: EvenBob

Porn has gotten so much better in the last 10 years. There are so many drop dead gorgeous women involved now, its almost unbelievable.

Couldn't agree more. I'm so appreciative that some of these girls have chosen this profession. They could do anything really with a face and body like they have, but they choose to show it off to ME for free on the Internet. What a great world!

Quote: EvenBob

I don't have time to look at much of it, but when I do, it just gets better and better.

You just have to MAKE the time, Bob.

Quote: zippyboy

I'm so appreciative that some of these girls have chosen this profession. They could do anything really with a face and body like they have, but they choose to show it off to ME for free on the Internet. What a great world!

In the late 50's, my dad got on some porn mailing list somehow and could never get off of it. So of course in the early 60's my brother and I would get the mail and steal it. The women in porn in those days were butt ugly and old, but hey, to us it was fantastic.

It does make you wonder why more people are against married affairs than polygamy. They should ask if the affair is clandestine or open.

And 60%/36% approve/disapprove of sex outside of marriage, while 54%/41% approve of having a baby outside of marriage. So only 5%-6% want people to use birth control? That's a fairly fine line.

Gambling and death penalty are neck and neck. There are ethicists who believe that the death penalty is "cruel and inhuman punishment" inherently even if it causes no pain, because of the mental distress that the accussed undergoes knowing that he will die. So maybe there needs to be a gambling element added.

I just read several books on the "dangers" of pornography. I don't necessarily agree with everything written. However, some of the studies that are referenced might explain the so called high value of "immorality" in pornography, even considering the large number of men who view pornography. Some of the studies asked men who viewed pornography if they thought pornography was wrong or immoral, to which they normally answered "for the most part, no." Of course, the value of that answer is questionable. But anyway, when the same men were asked if they had children, or wanted to have children, and THEN asked if pornography was wrong or immoral, they were more likely to answer "yes". Further, men with daughters were more likely to say pornography was wrong or immoral than men with sons, or men without or not wanting to have children.

Quote: konceptum

Some of the studies asked men who viewed pornography if they thought pornography was wrong or immoral, to which they normally answered "for the most part, no."

Most people don't know how to answer, they don't know if its moral or immoral. Women hate it because they don't understand how men think, and they're usually jealous of the women involved in the porn because they don't look that good. Men look at it for the same reason we started oggling girls in 7th grade. Its a natural interest that never goes away. The porn industry started the day after the camera was invented. Thats not true, it was actually flourishing long before that, but without photographs.

There have been cave drawings that depict women, so obviously the visual processing of women existed well before cameras.

There is a growing trend amongst women to 'accept' pornography. Many women feel almost as if they have to accept it because it has become so commonplace that they "know" any many they date will be a heavy porn user, and so they have to accept it. A lot of women also feel pressured to provide the "porn star experience" to their men in order to keep them around.

Quote: konceptum

There have been cave drawings that depict women, so obviously the visual processing of women existed well before cameras.

Those were drawn by men of course. Women of the era would've written a romance novel. On the wall. Would've described how her girlhood crush, Zork, rose to status in the tribe and killed the biggest mammoth all by himself, then offered her the choicest cuts first, which she lovingly seared over a fire, which Zork himself had only invented two moons earlier. Later, she gave Zork many fine sons, one of whom she punished for using yak blood and soot to draw pictures on the wall of a little hottie from a neighboring clan, still visible today.

Quote: zippyboy

Those were drawn by men of course. Women of the era would've written a romance novel. On the wall. Would've described how her girlhood crush, Zork, rose to status in the tribe and killed the biggest mammoth all by himself, then offered her the choicest cuts first, which she lovingly seared over a fire, which Zork himself had only invented two moons earlier. Later, she gave Zork many fine sons, one of whom she punished for using yak blood and soot to draw pictures on the wall of a little hottie from a neighboring clan, still visible today.

Reminds me of that caveman movie with Fire in the title, the one that got all the awards. Throughout the movie, when a man wanted sex, he'd push a woman onto her hands and knees and go to work. At the very end, the stars of the thing are doing it that way, and the woman stops and lays on her back. The man looks astonished, like 'why didn't I think of that' and they go at it again. Thus, civilization and the Missionary position were born...

Quote: EvenBob

Reminds me of that caveman movie with Fire in the title, the one that got all the awards. Throughout the movie, when a man wanted sex, he'd push a woman onto her hands and knees and go to work. At the very end, the stars of the thing are doing it that way, and the woman stops and lays on her back. The man looks astonished, like 'why didn't I think of that' and they go at it again. Thus, civilization and the Missionary position were born...

Quest for Fire? I saw it in the theater when it came out, and fell asleep. Sounds like I missed the best part.

Quote: konceptum

I just read several books on the "dangers" of pornography. I don't necessarily agree with everything written

You would never find a definition of pornography that is universally acceptable. The French pop singer Alizée was deliberately promoted with a Lolita image. She was only 16 when she first recorded the song and learned that dance. My mother would undoubtedly find the music video pornographic (don't worry Wizard, the video is PG-13).

The language of pornography is well written into fashion photography. I was surprised to see a production of Shakespeare's Macbeth next to the Capitol where the three witches behaved like porn stars. Many women are perfectly comfortable talking about sex toys today. Erotic literature is fairly common, and a lot of women read it. Fetishism (especially shoe fetishists) are almost mainstream media grist.

What about soft-core simulated sex movies that seem to be a staple of pay channels on cable television. Would you call that porn?

In Europe cabaret entertainment is increasingly taking on some aspects of live sex shows.

Quote: konceptum

A lot of women also feel pressured to provide the "porn star experience" to their men in order to keep them around.

So men want the "porn star experience" from their girlfriends, and they hire prostitutes for the "girl friend experience".

Quote: pacomartin

The French pop singer Alizée was deliberately promoted with a Lolita image. She was only 16 when she first recorded the song and learned that dance.

Nothing about that vid is porn. Cute girl, but too old to be considered a Lolita imo. Catchy tune though, Rihanna or Britney could make a bundle if she stole it for the American market.

What your mother finds pornographic, your father finds appealing. I thought this was mainstream, even tame. Thanks, paco. I bookmarked it. lol

Quote: zippyboy

Cute girl, but too old to be considered a Lolita imo.

She needs to drop 20 pounds if she wants to appeal to the American audience. Cute kid, though.

Wizard asked not to link to anything that is approaching an R rating.


In the 1955 novel, the man is age 37, while the girl is age 12. I think the girl is aged a little in both the 1962 movie, and the 1997 movie. But fear of backlash made it much harder to distribute the 1997 movie than the 1962 one. I said the idea of it being pornographic is highly related to people's reaction to the word Lolita.

The singer, Alizée Jacotey, recorded that song at around 15 or 16, and she was married at around age 19. She is currently age 26, and still has no children

Quote: Moi... Lolita

(English Version) lyrics
Artist: Alizée Lyrics

me, my name is lolita
lo or well lola
they are similar
me, my name is lolita
when i dream of the wolves
it's lola who is of health
when i pitchfork my language
i have there a crazy laugh
also crazy as a phenomenon
my name is lolita
the water of life, the water to torrential loves

refrain:
it's not my fault
and when i gave my language to the cats
i seen the others
ready to throw themselves upon me
this is not my fault
if i hear all around me
me lolita

me, my name is lolita
student below
blue jeans
me, my name is lolita
hot tempered and not
half-cotton, half-wool
motor and a mouth that doesn't tell
mom that i am a phenomenon
my name is lolita
the water of life, the water to torrential loves

One of the books I read pointed out that what was once considered porn is sometimes now considered mainstream, to the point where it is featured on television, movies, magazines, and advertising. The pornography industry is always pushing the envelope. Even "women" magazines like Vogue can feature on its cover what may have once been considered pornographic.

However, more interesting to me, is the concept of accessibility. In my day, porn was hard to come by. Well, not really. I know I found my first porn in a dumpster, probably a Playboy, although I don't specifically remember what magazine it was. I also remember trying to watch the scrambled Playboy channel at one point, fiddling with knobs and dials to try and get the signal to come in clear enough to see something.

Nowadays, the plethora of pornography is all over the internet, and it's easily accessible. Even schools have difficult times. They put blockers in place, but the kids are so tech savvy that they easily plow right through the blockers. Further, most of them can just go to the local public library, where freedom of speech laws require the computers to be unblocked anyway.

Personally, I don't think pornography is the problem. I think (lack of) communication is the problem.

Quote: konceptum

One of the books I read pointed out that what was once considered porn is sometimes now considered mainstream,.

I have a friend who was born in NYC in 1935. When he was 14 and 15, he would buy hard core porn wherever he could get it and sell it at his high school for a big profit. This was very dangerous, it was a felony and a big felony in those days. Porn sellers were put in the same category as child molesters. He got caught, but because his father was a big time attorney, and he was a minor, the cops didn't press charges. He says it put a permanent rift between him and his father and they rarely spoke for the rest of his fathers life.

Quote: pacomartin

Wizard asked not to link to anything that is approaching an R rating.

Does that mean a link to Pam Anderson's honeymoon tape is inappropriate? I hate to admit it, but when it first came out, I found it on the net and it did not disappoint. I'm so ashamed... That shows you how much things have changed. That tape leaves absolutely nothing to the imagination and would have ruined careers in the 60's 70's and 80's. Not anymore, now it enhances careers. Has Paris Hilton suffered, or any of the others? C'mon, its only sex..

Quote: pacomartin

What about soft-core simulated sex movies that seem to be a staple of pay channels on cable television. Would you call that porn?

I remember decades ago you had to pay in hotel rooms to see the soft core stuff you see everywhere today.