Canadian Federal Election

What will your vote be on the coming federal election May 2nd? Non-Canadians welcome, as i am also interested in how Canada looks outside of its own borders.

I live here, but I'm not allowed to vote. Immigrants don't get voting rights.

I'd probably vote NDP. Harper is suffering from the same hubris that effects any leader whose been in power for too long. Plus I don't agree with most of the Conservative policies and they half-arse the free-market stuff. Ignatieff is a wannabe, and I've found the Liberals ability to be anything but an anti-Harper party sadly lacking. I like Jack Layton's politics and I don't mind his style, and I also approve of his pragamatic approach (allying with the minority Tories on areas that match his parties objectives).

I'd consider a vote for the Greens, as they have a chance here with Elizabeth May, but I vehemently object to paradropped political candidates. However, the Green's general stand on many of the issues that do effect my enjoyment of this area (and why I live here) are similar to my own.

I half-jokingly tell my friends that I'd vote for the Bloc Quebecois if I could....

Quote: gog

What will your vote be on the coming federal election May 2nd? Non-Canadians welcome, as i am also interested in how Canada looks outside of its own borders.

Odds are 100 to 1 non-Canadians have no clue what the options mean.

Quote: Nareed

Odds are 100 to 1 non-Canadians have no clue what the options mean.

Damn, I wish I hadn't been so fast in replying so I could have taken that bet. For more than one reason.

it's been a long time since anybody in the US has much heard of the prime minister... they used to get in the news, now you have to look him up to see who it is, or at least I did.

Quote: thecesspit

Damn, I wish I hadn't been so fast in replying so I could have taken that bet. For more than one reason.

What bet? I was just quoting the odds.

But from your post I gather you live in Canada but aren't a citizen. If so, then you're a Canadian resident and so naturally you'd know what the choices are.

Me, I'm not even sure Canada is a de-jure independent state. De-facto it is, certainly, and sovereign, absolutely. But as I understand, the Queen either is or appoints Canada's figurehead of state (I know what I wrote).

Quote: Nareed

What bet? I was just quoting the odds.

But from your post I gather you live in Canada but aren't a citizen. If so, then you're a Canadian resident and so naturally you'd know what the choices are.

Indeed, but I am not a Canadian. And 100-1 that people don't know? Well that seems very long odds on a highly likely bet.

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Me, I'm not even sure Canada is a de-jure independent state. De-facto it is, certainly, and sovereign, absolutely. But as I understand, the Queen either is or appoints Canada's figurehead of state (I know what I wrote).

The Queen of Canada is the head of state, and she appoints the Governor-General of Canada to act as her representative. Though in reality, the GG is nominated and approved by the Prime Minister.

The Queen of Canada happens to also be the Queen of Great Britain, but Canada has be de facto and de jure an independent state since at least 1982 (when the last vestiges of Britain having the ability to effect Canadian policy was removed in the British parliament) and pretty much since the 1930's has gone it's own way in the world (1939 Canada declared war by it's own choice... in 1914 it had no choice, for example).

The Queen is the head of state in many countries. That does not make them dependent on the United Kingdom, or still tied to the British Government.

It's absolutely moronic to kick Harper out of office. Canada was the first western country to recover and is doing quite well for itself - you also have a relatively moderate conservative who is holding back his more conservative MP's on social issues (the most inflammatory). If leaders get blamed for economic busts they should also get rewarded for success.

I haven't seen the polls as I don't follow Canadian politics like I do euro "democracy". I think very low of parliamentary governments for several reasons, one of which is that they allow the rise of ridiculously for left and right groups too easily. Also, fuck the Monarchy.

Quote: thecesspit

The Queen of Canada

That really does have a ring to it ;)

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The Queen of Canada happens to also be the Queen of Great Britain, but Canada has be de facto and de jure an independent state since at least 1982 (when the last vestiges of Britain having the ability to effect Canadian policy was removed in the British parliament)

My one trip to Canada, summer camp in ontario, was in 1982! Lovely country.

So, is there a kind of Independence celebration, or is it still limited to canada Day in, as I recall, July 1st?

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The Queen is the head of state in many countries. That does not make them dependent on the United Kingdom, or still tied to the British Government.

Sure. And it's mostly symbolic, if not wholly so (ergo figurehead of state). But it does seem odd for an independent country to have an official, ceremonial or not, nominally appointed by the head of another state.

Quote: ahiromu

It's absolutely moronic to kick Harper out of office. Canada was the first western country to recover and is doing quite well for itself - you also have a relatively moderate conservative who is holding back his more conservative MP's on social issues (the most inflammatory). If leaders get blamed for economic busts they should also get rewarded for success.

I don't think Harper is to thank for getting the country out of the recession (if it is yet). It's more to do with the antiquated banking system up here that doesn't take big risks and runs by taking it's cut from each transaction it processes, not by large speculative bets in the market. I think he's done a reasonable job though of keeping things steady on the most part. I think he's aching though to not have to keep the more conservative MPs held back any more on social issues, as he knows those are the items that he loses his partners this week in the House.

The only question though really is whether Harper gets another minority leadership or a sole majority. I'd prefer the former... I don't think he's completely evil and bad, I do think he treats the governmental process with contempt at times (which is why he's facing an election).

I suspect the change will be minimal in the end.

Quote: Nareed

So, is there a kind of Independence celebration, or is it still limited to canada Day in, as I recall, July 1st?

Canada Day for July 1st, for the anniversary of 1867 and the founding of Canada (over there in the east).

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Sure. And it's mostly symbolic, if not wholly so (ergo figurehead of state). But it does seem odd for an independent country to have an official, ceremonial or not, nominally appointed by the head of another state.

The official is nominated by the head of state. The head of state is also head of other states. Kinda like dual nationality...

Quote: thecesspit

The official is nominated by the head of state. The head of state is also head of other states. Kinda like dual nationality...

And that doesn't strike you as odd?

I'd say the least important person in the US government is the Vicepresident. He matters at election time (and not as much as people think, witness Dan Quayle), and in case the sitting president dies or gets shot, which has happened a number of times. In Israel the least important person is the president, who doesn't matter at any time and is merely a figurehead.

Now, suppose the Queen were to name the VP, or merely stamp a pro-forma approval of whatever VP the president "nominated." Imagine the same thing in Israel.

I just can't imagine that.

Quote: Nareed

And that doesn't strike you as odd?.

Not really. Just strikes me as the crazy stuff that's the remains of a Monarchical system and colonialism. Britain let go of some of it's ex-colonies much more gracefully than other European powers (or it ruled them with a tighter grip... I'm not sure on why, possibly lessons learnt from the American War of Independence, or the ability to concentrate on it's dominions a lot more than the mainland powers could).

Quote: thecesspit

Not really. Just strikes me as the crazy stuff that's the remains of a Monarchical system and colonialism.

We could have a fascinating argument on the difference between odd and crazy. Then we could argue whether ridiculous is worse than crazy, too. But I reckon we've hijacked the thread enough :P

So no Canadian party is calling for the Queen's head, eh? (Oh, come on! I held off long enough)

Quote: Nareed

So no Canadian party is calling for the Queen's head, eh? (Oh, come on! I held off long enough)

The Bloc Quebecois aren't particularly fans of the British Monarchy, and the Parti-Quebecois (provincial level independence movement) even more so.

Quote: thecesspit

The Bloc Quebecois aren't particularly fans of the British Monarchy, and the Parti-Quebecois (provincial level independence movement) even more so.

Well, from what I've heard about it, they'd rather have British-Canadian heads than plain British or even Royal British. Too bad there's no French monarch to stir things up :)

I supposed they toned down the whole independent Quebec thing in the 90s given the fiasco, and slaughter, wrought by similar movements in the Balkans. But then again maybe not. I know I haven't heard of them in a while. Even the North Irish calmed down.

Quote: Nareed

Well, from what I've heard about it, they'd rather have British-Canadian heads than plain British or even Royal British. Too bad there's no French monarch to stir things up :)

I supposed they toned down the whole independent Quebec thing in the 90s given the fiasco, and slaughter, wrought by similar movements in the Balkans. But then again maybe not. I know I haven't heard of them in a while. Even the North Irish calmed down.

"North Irish".... the Catholic minority in Northern Ireland (aka Ulster) wanted removal from the Union and to join the Irish Republic (Republicans). The political wing of the provisional IRA has denounced violenence and is part of the power sharing in Northern Ireland. The protestant majority (or Unionist) what to stay part the United Kingdom.

Both sides have fought, scrapped and bombed each other while many, many innocent people have been caught in between. There are still active para-military groups on both sides, but it's at the level of local crime gangs now, and the bombings and shootings are rare.

The PQ still exist and want an independent Quebec... which is a nonsense really, as francophone Canada isn't actually inside the boundaries of Quebec, many people in Quebec don't want independence (for example most of the North of QC is Inuit and First Nations, and they've said they'd cede back to Canada if Quebec left on mass) while some in New Brunswick would want be part of a independent French nation (and others like the Acadians left France 400 years ago to be done with the crap, and have been trying to stay out of that squarehead/frenchie fight for the last few centuries... unsuccessfully until recently).

But the more violent QC independence has calmed right down.

I don't that much about it, having never visited that side of the country though. I'm all for the Independent Nation of Cascadia, and will vote for the People's Front of the Pacific Northwest when they come around :)

Since Quebec really has a beef with the Brits and not Canada per se, do you believe hypothetically if we severed all ties with the monarchy, fired the GG, scratched the little heads off our coins (or just the crown), they would be less bitter about it?

Quote: thecesspit

But the more violent QC independence has calmed right down.

I dind't know there was a violent component there. I've never heard of assasinations, bombings or even grafitti about French Canadian independence. it just seems too un-Canadian.

BTW are there really that many Canadians who only speak French? I should think most French canadians would be bilingual. But then when you develop insular habits, you tend to find ways to be even more separate from the society around you.

Quote: gog

Since Quebec really has a beef with the Brits and not Canada per se, do you believe hypothetically if we severed all ties with the monarchy, fired the GG, scratched the little heads off our coins (or just the crown), they would be less bitter about it?

No the seperatist line is that Quebec is providing more to Canada than they are receiving. Seems hard for most of the rest of Canada to imagine that anyone could believe that. The seperatist did a really good propaganda job in the schools when they were in power provincially and most of the under 30 population have a much different view of history than the rest of the country. As an example the text books taught them the battle of the Plains of Abraham (for those of you that don't know Canadian history that is was decisive battle between the British and French) was a tie. The reasoning was both generals died, which is true, but it was a decisive victory for the British and the end of Frances rule in Quebec.

Quote: Nareed

I dind't know there was a violent component there. I've never heard of assasinations, bombings or even grafitti about French Canadian independence. it just seems too un-Canadian.

The FLQ (Front Liberation Quebec) killed 8 people in the 70's as part of it's agenda to seperate. They also bombed the Montreal Stock exchange. I have no idea about pro-seperatist graffitti, but I'd guess it exists...

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BTW are there really that many Canadians who only speak French? I should think most French canadians would be bilingual. But then when you develop insular habits, you tend to find ways to be even more separate from the society around you.

I know some who speak as much English as I do French, which is pretty much zero. They aren't Quebecers though. I don't see it as a insular habits, language is commonly associated with culture. There's also many in the Metis community and in Manitoba who don't speak much English. Either, and some of the Coastal First nations keep their own language alive by it being the lingua franca of their communities.

The Welsh do much the same.

Canadian Politics 101:

It's a parliamentary system. Members of Parliaments (MPs) who sit in the House of Commons are elected by popular vote. It is this group who create the laws of the land (in general). There are 308 members, all up for election each time an election is called. The Conservative Party of Canada (Stephen Harper, Prime Minister) is currently in power with a minority government with 143 members. Liberals hold 77 seats. The Bloc Quebecois (who only have candidates in the province of Quebec) have 47 seats. The New Democrats have 36 seats. There are two independents and three vacant seats. For laws to pass in a minority government, the party proposing the bill need help of other parties. Thusly they must negotiate bills and budget measures to include measures that are another party's platform to get it to pass. Us Canadians are generally satisfied with this setup thus far as it has lasted through three elections in the past five years and it appears that the result of May's election will be close to the same. There are no terms limits on the Prime Minister. The Prime Minister, who is the leader of the elected party, is selected through conventions similar to what happens in the United States. The leader of the party in 2nd place is called "Leader of the Opposition".

There is also a Senate of 105 members (who must retire at the age of 75) who are usually appointed by the Prime Minister and are cronies (subject to the Governor General's approval). They are generally regarded by the populace as absolutely useless but they do sign off on laws created by the House of Commons. Theoretically, they are a stopgap to runaway government.

As for this election, the Harper government has been under some scandal recently for it underhandedly funding some campaigns contrary to the rules of Elections Canada. Some people are frustrated with Harper's heavy-handedness and arrogance. Those who don't like him will claim that the robust economy did better in the recession due to our heavy reliance on natural resources (oil), banking laws that prevented Canadian Banks to make up the ridiculous financial instruments that US Banks built their pyramids on, and mortgage legislation that prevented a housing collapse. None of these things Harper was responsible for, so I would argue that his fiscal policies really were weak and did nothing -- they were preexisting. When Harper took over, Canada had robust surpluses due to the economic policies of the prior government (Liberals) and its Finance Minister (Paul Martin). Generally, the Conversative government of Canada stand on the right side of the political spectrum, who favor lower tax rates, fewer breaks for the poor, and are tough on crime. They generally support privatizing our national treasure (health care) as much as possible. Harper has managed to come off as friendly enough during a campaign when people are paying attention. Conservatives are popular out West and in rural areas.

However, the opposition (the Liberals) are led by a person (Michael Igantieff) who has very little charisma (in my opinion). It doesn't help that he spent many years in the United States. His previous platform centered around a green tax policy which was not well understood and poorly constructed. It is unclear what he is standing for in this policy. The Liberals tend to be centered, giving more breaks to the poor and needy. They want a national daycare program to provide inexpensive daycare for preschoolers. They want to provide more money to health care, which most people support (but don't want to pay for). Liberals generally are very popular in urban centers (Toronto, Montreal).

The New Democrats (left of Liberal) are led by Jack Layton. This party generally stands for socialism (that isn't a far cry here in Canada) with more money to health care, the poor, single parents. They are environmentally friendly folk who would support high taxation on corporations and the rich (not that the rich are not taxed enough) and would support some kind of carbon tax, and the legalization of marijuana (it's already decriminalized). Generally, they do well in working class cities and on the west coast. Alot of people vote NDP because they realize that they won't get into power but in generally support their policies.

The Bloc Quebecois (only in Quebec) stands for Quebec interests (protection of the French language, separation, tax breaks and incentives for its residents). In Quebec for example, you must answer the phone in French first. Signs must be larger in French than in English. When you get outside of Montreal and Hull (which borders Ottawa), most Quebec residents will speak only French with a rudimentary knowledge of English.

My personal opinion is that the election is a waste of time for most Canadians and was a bad move by the opposition to force. Despite the Conservative's recent sins (which will lose them votes), their "economic stewardship" through the last election will win them new votes. I predict another Conservative minority or even a thin majority.

As for the Governor General (the Queen's representative), s/he generally acts in a decorative capacity only and acts on advice of the Prime Minister. Most Canadians don't mind and don't care and just question the money that s/he spends on unnecessary activities.

Cheers, boymombo, that's an excellent summary.

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My personal opinion is that the election is a waste of time for most Canadians and was a bad move by the opposition to force. Despite the Conservative's recent sins (which will lose them votes), their "economic stewardship" through the last election will win them new votes. I predict another Conservative minority or even a thin majority

The opposition were almost forced to push the Tories to an election is they wanted to keep up an appearance of keeping Harper honest. I suspect the result will also be much the same (there's a chance that the Green's get a seat in my area, which I'm not in favour off... I absolutely detest airdropped candidates, be they leaders of a party or not).

Apparently, according to the CBC survey I'm somewhere between NDP and Liberal, which is probably about right.

The results are petty much in and we have a Conservative Majority, with the New Democratic Party the official majority. The Liberals have melted down and the Bloc Quebecois is almost wiped out, from 49 seats to 4. Both the Liberal and the Bloc leaders were defeated in their home ridings.

However one party leader gained her seat... and there is now a Green MP. The first one in North America. Kinda suits the area, though I'd prefer not to have a paradropped in party leader looking for a seat, but there's some issues in this part of the world that will suit some Green representation (not least the stupidity of running super tankers down this coastline). My local MP kept her seat for the NDP.

(Seems the riding boundary is about 50m from my house so I was confused earlier)