Poll
8 votes (25.8%) | |||
No votes (0%) | |||
2 votes (6.45%) | |||
No votes (0%) | |||
20 votes (64.51%) | |||
1 vote (3.22%) |
31 members have voted
Quote: ItsCalledSoccerOne can't help but wonder how much of the protests were organic and how much of it was "astroturf." I think the original protests were organic, but when out-of-staters got involved, including Obama's organization, it got both hijacked and ugly. I don't think that's going to influence anybody with an actual WI vote. For the same reasons, any recall efforts will probably fall flat since they're also "astroturf," imposed in large part by the same outsiders who have spent the last three weeks giving the WI populace tired-head.
You don't have to wonder. I've been there. These people by the vast vast majority are from Wisconsin. These are not your standard protesters and activists. They are just citizens of Wisconsin. Yes there is out of state money flowing in ON BOTH SIDES, but the idea that these protests are anything but Wisconsin is purely false.
How does removing $11 million dollars a year from the economy of my county alone NOT close businesses?
Yes the contributions are low, but so are the salaries. I could detail it all but it will just turn into more of the same back and forth.
I will totally concede that our health care plan is too generous. I've been saying that since day one of my employment with WI. Personally that is where I would have liked to see some retooling. Rather than raise our contributions, retool the plan to be more balanced. The union and non-union folks alike made a grave error in taking minimal raises year after year after year (1-2% tops) in exchange for maintaining a high level of benefits. Now it looks bad and it's an easy thing to say that we get some sort of sweetheart deal, it's false, but it's an easy thing to say.
As for the insult bits "it's on me"? That is laughable. You insult me then say it's on me.
Quote: CalderThe repair bill is not the biennial budget for 2011-13. Among other things, the repair bill was needed to pay off the remaining deficit from the 2009-11 budget due to revenue shortfalls. That's distinct from the $3.6 billion structural deficit that has to be eliminated in the '11-'13 budget bill.
Ron, I may agree with your two-tier representation of Wisconsin workers. Those in the first tier have free state pensions, free health insurance, and may retire in their 50s. The second tier must save for their own retirement, pay their own health insurance premiums, and retire at 67; they also pay taxes to support the first tier.
The average total compensation for Milwaukee Public School teachers topped $100,000 this year. The insurance provided to most teachers is through a company administered by...the teachers union. It's that sort of stuff that's assured through collective bargaining. Unless you do away with collective bargaining for benefit packages, the state and local governments will never be able to control spending.
Employees will be able to bargain for wages, something federal union employees are not allowed to do.
I don't have a free pension, free health insurance, nor will I be able to retire in my 50s. It's just false.
Quote: RonDiazYou don't have to wonder. I've been there. These people by the vast vast majority are from Wisconsin. These are not your standard protesters and activists. They are just citizens of Wisconsin. Yes there is out of state money flowing in ON BOTH SIDES, but the idea that these protests are anything but Wisconsin is purely false.
I don't think any news agency is reporting that, and I've seen interviews where someone says something like, yeah, I came on a bus from <wherever>, more than one. It's *possible* there was only one bus and only people from that particular bus were interviewed, but I don't think it's likely.
Quote: RonDiazHow does removing $11 million dollars a year from the economy of my county alone NOT close businesses?
I think this is a philosophical difference. $11 million won't be removed from the economy; it will be removed from government use (which is not productive) and left in the hands of the private sector. So ... nothing is lost to the economy. I think that the SAME $11 million is more economically productive in the hands of the private sector than in the hands of the government.
Quote: RonDiazYes the contributions are low, but so are the salaries. I could detail it all but it will just turn into more of the same back and forth.
I will totally concede that our health care plan is too generous. I've been saying that since day one of my employment with WI. Personally that is where I would have liked to see some retooling. Rather than raise our contributions, retool the plan to be more balanced. The union and non-union folks alike made a grave error in taking minimal raises year after year after year (1-2% tops) in exchange for maintaining a high level of benefits. Now it looks bad and it's an easy thing to say that we get some sort of sweetheart deal, it's false, but it's an easy thing to say.
Why didn't you say you were a state worker from the beginning? If your self-interest is at stake, then why you're angry makes a helluva lot of sense. But that doesn't mean the rest of the populace shares your anger. You've (self-admittedly) known that your health care plan is "too generous." I would go further and say other parts of your overall comp are "too generous". I also know, and I think everyone else does, that WI is facing huge deficits and debt. Hence, the current WI congress.
You're simply on the wrong side of the issue. No big deal, it happens. And yeah, you did get a sweetheart deal. But those days are, evidently, over because there's no money. Welcome to the world of "tightening your belt, not just retooling."
Quote: RonDiazAs for the insult bits "it's on me"? That is laughable. You insult me then say it's on me.
Quote: ItsCalledSoccerI'm not sure what you don't understand about the election results.
Not an insult. Yup, it's on you.
Quote: RonDiazI don't have a free pension, free health insurance, nor will I be able to retire in my 50s. It's just false.
According to the Wisconsin Dept. of Employee Trust Funds, which "covers employees of the State of Wisconsin and employees of local government employers who elect to participate, and Milwaukee Public School District teachers" the minimum retirement age is 55, 50 for protective services.
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With regard to pension contributions and health insurance, that is up to the local governments. The pension contribution is often paid by the locality, instead of the employee. That contribution is bargained, another reason collective bargaining needs to be curtailed.
Quote: RonDiazHow does removing $11 million dollars a year from the economy of my county alone NOT close businesses?
By not having to raise taxes over a billion to make up for the shortfall. Although the astroturf rent-a-mob dollars supporting local hotels and such may hurt in the short term.
What I am suprised is no news outlet is mentioning this as the positive effect of democrats losing elections down the ticket last fall. Harry Reid kept his job, but lots of control in statehouses flipped. As to your other comment about people throwing the GOP out, I doubt it. People who are not state workers getting lavish contracts will not have this as a high issue. And the Union will have to collect their own dues and actually service their members or be voted out annually. Less time to be foot soldiers in the next election.
Think the deer hunter is going to vote for the union that supports the party that wants to ban guns?
Quote: AZDuffmanThink the deer hunter is going to vote for the union that supports the party that wants to ban guns?
That's one issue voting. (and there's blue dog democrats) And also like gays did't vote for Obama because of his original stated stance on gay marriage, for instance. Because they did.
Walker is not Reagan, any more than if Kerry did the exact things as Obama or Clinton, he'd ever muster the same amount of votes. Walker has no X-factor as they say on the popular front.
Just because you run on a platform doesn't mean everyone supports every implentation or idea of it in action.
Quote: rxwineThat's one issue voting. (and there's blue dog democrats) And also like gays did't vote for Obama because of his original stated stance on gay marriage, for instance. Because they did.
Walker is not Reagan, any more than if Kerry did the exact things as Obama or Clinton, he'd ever muster the same amount of votes. Walker has no X-factor as they say on the popular front.
Just because you run on a platform doesn't mean everyone supports every implentation or idea of it in action.
Collective bargaining is also merely one issue. And I feel it will not be important to many swing voters, astroturfed demonstrations or not.