Poll

2 votes (5.4%)
2 votes (5.4%)
4 votes (10.81%)
5 votes (13.51%)
13 votes (35.13%)
5 votes (13.51%)
3 votes (8.1%)
1 vote (2.7%)
1 vote (2.7%)
1 vote (2.7%)

37 members have voted

SanchoPanza
SanchoPanza
Joined: May 10, 2010
  • Threads: 34
  • Posts: 3502
February 8th, 2011 at 2:49:11 PM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Unfortunately North America extends from Alaska to the North all the way down to the Mexican border with Belize and Guatemala to the south. So there are "nations" missing.


Geographically, North America extends to the Isthmus of Panama. Mesoamerica is a subcontinent, just like India and Southeast Asia are for Asia. Better stop using Mercator projections and add another half-dozen nations.
Nareed
Nareed
Joined: Nov 11, 2009
  • Threads: 373
  • Posts: 11413
February 8th, 2011 at 3:17:29 PM permalink
Quote: SanchoPanza

Geographically, North America extends to the Isthmus of Panama. Mesoamerica is a subcontinent, just like India and Southeast Asia are for Asia. Better stop using Mercator projections and add another half-dozen nations.



Geographically, designations are as arbitrary as politically ;)

But consider, you have a continious land mass from Alaska to Yucatan, which then narrows until it passes the equator. I'd call the first mass North america, and the rest South America. Designtaing the land in between as Central America or not is optional.
Donald Trump is a fucking criminal
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
February 8th, 2011 at 4:34:46 PM permalink
"You could make that point about the US-Canada border in general, in that it makes very little political or geographic sense. The Pacific Northwest should, as you note, include BC and the Yukon. Alberta resembles Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado more than it does any other Canadian province. Saskatchewan and Manitoba are just colder versions of the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas. Ontario is like the US Rust Belt/Great Lakes region, and the Maritimes are cultural and geographical sisters to the New England states. Quebec....well, Quebec is Quebec."

No no no, the Dakotas as warmer versions of Manitoba and Saskatcherwan... and Alberta may have in the past been like Montana et al, but the rise of oil in that region has turned it into a very different beast. There is one school of thought that says the provinces should have been vertically stacked in the middle, not horizontally (upper Alberta is different to lower Alberta".

The PNW should have been called Cascadia. There is a semi-serious "Cascadian People's Front" - http://cascadianow.org/ but a lot of those movements end up being fronts for various white power and White Home Nation groups... there's certainly a lot of that sort around these parts. I have no idea if Cascadia Now IS such a front.

The part of me that likes the Napoleon of Notting Hill also likes the idea of a small set of states in North America.

You also miss out that Quebec actually ISN'T Quebec... parts of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia fall under the francophone and French cultural nation, while parts of Southern Quebec are Anglophone, and a huge swathe of the North of Quebec says they would immediately vote to cede back to the Canadian Union if Quebec tried to declare independence... this is the part with a large section of Inuit and other First nations. And a lot of the Quebec Hydro.

Then again, the Acadian Francophones are a different breed to the Quebecois, and while culturally French, they definitely identify as Canadian. Rather pissed of at the British, but definitely Canadien. But the Acadians were a very different group of settlers to the those who settled in lower Canada.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Doc
Doc
Joined: Feb 27, 2010
  • Threads: 46
  • Posts: 7191
February 8th, 2011 at 5:44:32 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

... You also miss out that Quebec actually ISN'T Quebec... parts of New Brunswick and Nova Scotia fall under the francophone and French cultural nation, while parts of Southern Quebec are Anglophone, and a huge swathe of the North of Quebec says they would immediately vote to cede back to the Canadian Union if Quebec tried to declare independence... this is the part with a large section of Inuit and other First nations. And a lot of the Quebec Hydro.

Then again, the Acadian Francophones are a different breed to the Quebecois, and while culturally French, they definitely identify as Canadian. Rather pissed of at the British, but definitely Canadien. But the Acadians were a very different group of settlers to the those who settled in lower Canada.


Jumping a little farther afield, perhaps you could clear up one item for me. Back when Quebec was considering independence, someone told me that there was sentiment that if such independence did occur, the Atlantic provinces might attempt an affiliation with the US rather than be part of but geographically separated from the rest of Canada. That somewhat fits with the idea of NB, PE, NS, and NL being part of a region with New England, but I don't know whether there was any truth to existence of a widespread sentiment like that. Comments from any Canadians? (Particularly those far to the east.)

I suppose I should also as other folks from the USA how they would have felt about that.
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
February 8th, 2011 at 5:57:43 PM permalink
I don't know, as I've never heard, but I am not a Canadian and don't live in the East. I've spoken to a fair number of Francophones, which is how I know a bit about the independence, and also read a fair amount.

I can't imagine Newfoundland and Labrador going for that though... they barely accepted federation with Canada. New Brunswick is the only truly bi-linngual province, and if there was an independent Quebec, the western part of NB especially would have been drawn to Quebec, not the US. I don't know anyone from PEI or down in the region bordering Maine etc... I don't see it, but who knows (I heard a rumour that a way way back, there was some sort of land claim that Canada/The British Dominions of North America had on Maine).
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
clarkacal
clarkacal
Joined: Sep 22, 2010
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 401
February 8th, 2011 at 6:53:33 PM permalink
mkl did you mean for the poll to have that shape? If so that was well done!
Toes14
Toes14
Joined: May 6, 2010
  • Threads: 18
  • Posts: 455
February 8th, 2011 at 7:30:16 PM permalink
Here is a link to another idea that divides the US up into 38 states:

38 States

It was created by a geography professor in California and supposedly would help reduce government costs. I didn't get too far into it, so I can't really speak for it, other than to say it really changes the boundaries!
"Bite my Glorious Golden Ass!" - Bender Bending Rodriguez
kenarman
kenarman
Joined: Nov 22, 2009
  • Threads: 28
  • Posts: 966
February 8th, 2011 at 9:33:52 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

I don't know, as I've never heard, but I am not a Canadian and don't live in the East. I've spoken to a fair number of Francophones, which is how I know a bit about the independence, and also read a fair amount.

I can't imagine Newfoundland and Labrador going for that though... they barely accepted federation with Canada. New Brunswick is the only truly bi-linngual province, and if there was an independent Quebec, the western part of NB especially would have been drawn to Quebec, not the US. I don't know anyone from PEI or down in the region bordering Maine etc... I don't see it, but who knows (I heard a rumour that a way way back, there was some sort of land claim that Canada/The British Dominions of North America had on Maine).



Nova Scotia still has a very established Francophone population as well. The bulk of what are now the Canadian Maritime provinces were once the French province of Acadia thus the French of this area are still identified as Acadians. Much of Maine was also part of Acadia. The British expelled a large percentage of the population for security reasons after winning the war for that part of North America. The French population based in Quebec did not fall to the British until much later. After the expulsion many of the Acadians made their way to Louisiana and became known as Cajuns.
Be careful when you follow the masses, the M is sometimes silent.
thecesspit
thecesspit
Joined: Apr 19, 2010
  • Threads: 53
  • Posts: 5936
February 8th, 2011 at 11:43:40 PM permalink
The security reasons where rather crap, as the Acadians themselves didn't really want any part of the French rule... they also didn't want to give fealty to the British crown either... so they were rather harshly done by at the end of that fight.

I knew the Cajuns were the displaced Acadians. Was a pretty typical British tactic of that era... displace and cleanse those you don't like (see Highland clearances around the same era).

I know my Acadian friend is rather proud of heritage and culture.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
Wavy70
Wavy70
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
  • Threads: 15
  • Posts: 907
February 9th, 2011 at 12:32:11 AM permalink
We in the Northeast find he rest of the country delightful.
I have a bewitched egg that I use to play VP with and I have net over 900k with it.

  • Jump to: