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mkl654321
mkl654321
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February 8th, 2011 at 9:58:24 AM permalink
In another thread, the OP asked people what region of North America they had come from--which created some predictable questions about which region a given state or province lies in.

In 1981, Joel Garreau wrote "The Nine Nations of North America," in which he divided up the continent into nine regions, delineated more by cultural and geographic boundaries than political ones:
New England an expanded version including not only Maine, New Hampshire, Vermont, Rhode Island, Massachusetts and Connecticut (although omitting the Connecticut suburbs of New York City), but also the Canadian Atlantic provinces of New Brunswick, Nova Scotia, Prince Edward Island, and Newfoundland and Labrador. Capital: Boston.
The Foundry the by-then-declining industrial areas of the northeastern United States and Great Lakes region stretching from New York City to Milwaukee, and including Chicago, Indianapolis, Cleveland and Philadelphia as well as industrial Southern Ontario centering on Toronto. Capital: Detroit.
Dixie the former Confederate States of America (today the southeastern United States) centered on Atlanta, and including most of eastern Texas. Garreau's "Dixie" also includes Kentucky (which had both a Union and a nominal Confederate government); southern and southeastern portions of Missouri, southern Illinois, and southern Indiana; and the "Little Dixie" region of southeastern Oklahoma. Finally, the region also includes most of Florida, as far south as the cities of Fort Myers and Naples. Capital: Atlanta.
The Breadbasket most of the Great Plains states and part of the Prairie provinces: Iowa, Kansas, Minnesota, Nebraska, the Dakotas, almost all of Oklahoma, parts of Missouri, western Wisconsin, eastern Colorado, the eastern edge of New Mexico, parts of Illinois and Indiana, and North Texas. Also included are some of Northern Ontario and southern Saskatchewan and Manitoba. Capital: Kansas City.
The Islands The South Florida metropolitan area, the Everglades and Florida Keys, and the Caribbean. Capital: Miami.
Mexamerica the southern and Central Valley portions of California as well as southern Arizona, the portion of Texas bordering on the Rio Grande, most of New Mexico, northern Mexico, and the Baja California peninsula. Capital: Los Angeles.
Ecotopia the Pacific Northwest coast west of the Cascade Range and the Coast Mountains, as well as several Alaskan Pacific Coast Ranges, stretching from Alaska down through coastal British Columbia, Washington state, Oregon and into California just north of Santa Barbara. Capital: San Francisco.
The Empty Quarter most of Alaska, Nevada, Utah, Wyoming, Idaho, Montana and Colorado from Denver west, as well as the eastern portions of Oregon, California, Washington, all of Alberta and Northern Canada (including what is now Nunavut), northern Arizona, parts of New Mexico (mainly the area controlled by the Navajo Nation), and British Columbia east of the Coast Ranges. Capital: Denver.
Quebec the primarily French-speaking province of Canada, which held referenda on secession in 1980 and 1995, the latter of which the "separatists" lost narrowly. Capital: Quebec City.

So which one are you from? What do you think of these divisions?
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
Nareed
Nareed
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February 8th, 2011 at 10:23:45 AM permalink
Unfortunately North America extends from Alaska to the North all the way down to the Mexican border with Belize and Guatemala to the south. So there are "nations" missing.
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7outlineaway
7outlineaway
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February 8th, 2011 at 10:28:16 AM permalink
Quote: mkl654321

So which one are you from? What do you think of these divisions?



Twenty years later, they still hold up pretty well. Maybe move upstate NY into New England, and Vegas into Mex-America.

I seem to have lived in a lot of norder areas. Right now I'd say I'm Empty Quarter.
7outlineaway
7outlineaway
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February 8th, 2011 at 10:31:59 AM permalink
see below
7outlineaway
7outlineaway
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February 8th, 2011 at 10:32:24 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Unfortunately North America extends from Alaska to the North all the way down to the Mexican border with Belize and Guatemala to the south. So there are "nations" missing.



Alaska contains parts of both Ecotopia and EQ. Mex-America was intended to extend at least most of the way into Mexico; if there are culturally different regions in Central America which transcend national boundaries I'm interested in hearing what they are.
mkl654321
mkl654321
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February 8th, 2011 at 10:35:57 AM permalink
Quote: Nareed

Unfortunately North America extends from Alaska to the North all the way down to the Mexican border with Belize and Guatemala to the south. So there are "nations" missing.



Ecotopia includes southeast Alaska and the Interior ranges; eastern Alaska is in the Empty Quarter. Southern Mexico is part of The Islands (Caribbean).

Garreau was aware of the map. In the case of southern Mexico (which is what is bothering you), he was acknowledging that the southern part of Mexico has more in common, culturally and geographically, with the Caribbean than with the rest of Mexico. Probably less true for Oaxaca and Chiapas.

He also considered several regions to be "aberrations" that didn't really belong in any of the Nine Nations--those included New York City and its suburbs, Washington, D.C., Hawaii, and the Northern Slope of Alaska.
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw
teddys
teddys
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February 8th, 2011 at 11:00:57 AM permalink
I like Garreau's book. "The Foundry" definitely exists. Most people call it The Rust Belt. The Empty Quarter has experienced a population boom -- it's no longer "empty" anymore. I don't know where I would put the Bos-NY-Wash megalopis -- maybe we need a new "nation" for that. Chicago and Pittsburgh have moved outside the Foundry for the most part. Everything else still holds pretty much true.
"Dice, verily, are armed with goads and driving-hooks, deceiving and tormenting, causing grievous woe." -Rig Veda 10.34.4
Nareed
Nareed
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February 8th, 2011 at 11:09:45 AM permalink
Quote: 7outlineaway

Alaska contains parts of both Ecotopia and EQ. Mex-America was intended to extend at least most of the way into Mexico; if there are culturally different regions in Central America which transcend national boundaries I'm interested in hearing what they are.



My apologies, that was not my point.

The point is that while there are regions that, culturally and economically, are linked even beyond borders, they are not nations. They remain regions. Meanwhile the list ignores parts of mexico, which are in North America. Just try to walk from Reynosa in Mexico to Hidalgo in Texas.

This exercise would work better in the European Union, where nations don't control their borders between each other the way they used to.
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thecesspit
thecesspit
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February 8th, 2011 at 12:09:22 PM permalink
I'd say that Ecotopia really covers two areas : Cascadia and NorCal/Oregon. Cascadia's capital would be Seattle. Or Vancouver.

54/40 or fight and Manifest Destiny got it wrong... the Pacific Northwest would have made sense as it's own seperate entity (covering BC, the Yukon, Alaska and Washington, plus part of Idaho and Western or even all of Alberta and some of the current North West territories). Of course, the Alaska purchase would never have happened in that situation where such a an area grew up.
"Then you can admire the real gambler, who has neither eaten, slept, thought nor lived, he has so smarted under the scourge of his martingale, so suffered on the rack of his desire for a coup at trente-et-quarante" - Honore de Balzac, 1829
mkl654321
mkl654321
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February 8th, 2011 at 2:27:01 PM permalink
Quote: thecesspit

I'd say that Ecotopia really covers two areas : Cascadia and NorCal/Oregon. Cascadia's capital would be Seattle. Or Vancouver.

54/40 or fight and Manifest Destiny got it wrong... the Pacific Northwest would have made sense as it's own seperate entity (covering BC, the Yukon, Alaska and Washington, plus part of Idaho and Western or even all of Alberta and some of the current North West territories). Of course, the Alaska purchase would never have happened in that situation where such a an area grew up.



You could make that point about the US-Canada border in general, in that it makes very little political or geographic sense. The Pacific Northwest should, as you note, include BC and the Yukon. Alberta resembles Montana, Wyoming, and Colorado more than it does any other Canadian province. Saskatchewan and Manitoba are just colder versions of the Dakotas, Nebraska, and Kansas. Ontario is like the US Rust Belt/Great Lakes region, and the Maritimes are cultural and geographical sisters to the New England states. Quebec....well, Quebec is Quebec.

I think you're right about the Alaska Purchase never happening in your scenario--it would have been the Alaska War between Northwest America and Russia (what would we have called such an entity? Columbia?).
The fact that a believer is happier than a skeptic is no more to the point than the fact that a drunken man is happier than a sober one. The happiness of credulity is a cheap and dangerous quality.---George Bernard Shaw

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