Stay off Southwest Airlines
It looks like some people won't be getting out for several days.
https://www.8newsnow.com/news/local-news/southwest-fiasco-creates-chaos-at-airports-including-in-las-vegas/?utm_medium=referral&utm_source=t.co&utm_campaign=socialflow
Harry Reid International Airport is showing as the third worst destination airport Wednesday when it comes to cancellations. There are 114 canceled flights. The airports in Denver and Chicago Midway top the list, according to FlightAware, a flight tracking website.
By Tuesday morning, Southwest Airlines had already canceled more than 2,500 flights of the 2,900 total flights canceled in the United States. Southwest will only be flying one-third of its scheduled flights for today. It canceled more flights Monday and Tuesday than any other airline in the U.S.
....It doesn’t look like it will be much better on Wednesday, according to FlightAware, Southwest already is reporting nearly 2,500 flights will be canceled.
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Top management was threatening to fire numerous workers who failed to show up for work last week without a doctor's note. There's some labor problems and a silent strike may have been afoot. If most everybody won't show up because the system is down, management will have to fire itself into oblivion, kind of like twitter.
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I'm seeing a twitter made-for-TV lawyer ad: DID YOU FLY #SOUTHWEST THIS HOLIDAY SEASON? YOU MAY BE ENTITLED TO COMPENSATION.
Quote: coilmanI used to watch "Fly with Big Ern" YouTube videos. Copilot for Southwest now a captain .gave people looking into become a pilot for them lots of insight ... Was one of the people interviewing people for hire . Said how busy they were in hiring mode ... Guess they were behind the curve a bit after covid. https://www.cnn.com/2022/12/27/business/southwest-airlines-service-meltdown/index.html
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Wonder if he will post a video of his experience with the meltdown. Lol I knew better not to fly, that’s why I rented a car and drove to visit family. If I had flown, I would have never made it or gotten back. I predicted this months ahead and the big winter storm just added to the chaos. I don’t feel sorry for the people, it was their decision to fly or travel in a very unstable industry.
I have always had good luck with Southwest and have probably flown them over 100 times. Sadly, they are no longer a low cost carrier and cost just as much as the other big brands.
Quote: DRichI am convinced there is a lot more to this Southwest story than what we know now. they cancelled 70% of their flights yesterday when the next most was 9%. This seems to be a lot more than just a weather issue.
I have always had good luck with Southwest and have probably flown them over 100 times. Sadly, they are no longer a low cost carrier and cost just as much as the other big brands.
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It is absolutely not a weather issue. It is a legacy software issue.
Saw this explainer on Twitter:
Quote:Learning that the Southwest Airlines meltdown is due to an antiquated crew scheduling system that assumes where a crew member is instead of working off live flight data. They’ve lost track of almost every crew member and the only way to solve it is for each one to individually call scheduling to tell them where they are. Their phone lines are swamped and I’ve seen screenshots of crew on hold for 23+ hours trying to get through to scheduling.
Because scheduling can’t keep track of where crew are, crew can’t get a hotel room for themselves in order to start their FAA mandated rest period. Lots of stories of crew members booking their own hotel rooms with the hopes it’ll be reimbursed at some point. Southwest have caught on a little late and are only now stopping the whole operation to get their ducks in a row and to reset everything. Spirit did a similar thing in August last year.
Quote: JohnzimboLove Southwest, will be booking them soon for February flights. Predict a nice sale next week.
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Me too. I have a flight 8 days from now. Hopefully mess is cleared up by then.
Quote: MDawgSWA is fine. The ones you generally want to avoid are Frontier / JetBlue.
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As one who has flown a lot domestically, I haven't run into an airline that I think is worse than the others., Obviously they all have advantages and disadvantages. I have even flown Breeze airlines a few times recently.
Then around 2015 it fell off the cliff and is a shadow of its former self.
Also SWA weight limit is 50 lbs and Frontier 40 lbs, which might be an issue at times.
One thing I have discovered is that there are for example Tumi carry ons that some of the airlines are allowing on and others are claiming are a bit too large. For example we have one that is 9.1″D x 15.9″W x 22.1″H and sometimes that is not allowed on board. Hit and miss there. (A different Tumi carry one we have that is 9.5"D x 15.75"W x 21"H always seems to make it.)
Of course having a family member let you fly on his private jet is always the best, but that's not always an option! And if you have a ton of luggage, as in pushing over a thousand pounds or even more, you're not flying anywhere, you will be driving.
My wife has a flight coming up with a six hour layover in JFK. I think I would rather take a bus than spend six hours in an airport.
However, whenever we drive to Vegas even if the drive is only four or so hours, still that day after arrival I'm tired and we don't do much. Flying in, I'm more ready to go that same day for any activity.
So time wise you might not save much time flying for some shorter trips, but it is usually less tiring to fly than drive.
For someone who’s often unsure of scheduling until late notice their cancellation policy is clutch, and their checked baggage policy is also superior to any competitor.
Quote: ams288
𝑺𝑨𝑾 𝑻𝑯𝑰𝑺 𝑬𝑿𝑷𝑳𝑨𝑰𝑵𝑬𝑹 𝑶𝑵 𝑻𝑾𝑰𝑻𝑻𝑬𝑹Quote:Learning that the Southwest Airlines meltdown is due to an antiquated crew scheduling system that assumes where a crew member is instead of working off live flight data. They’ve lost track of almost every crew member and the only way to solve it is for each one to individually call scheduling to tell them where they are. Their phone lines are swamped and I’ve seen screenshots of crew on hold for 23+ hours trying to get through to scheduling.
Because scheduling can’t keep track of where crew are, crew can’t get a hotel room for themselves in order to start their FAA mandated rest period. Lots of stories of crew members booking their own hotel rooms with the hopes it’ll be reimbursed at some point. Southwest have caught on a little late and are only now stopping the whole operation to get their ducks in a row and to reset everything. Spirit did a similar thing in August last year.
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anybody with a keyboard can post on twitter - you don't even need to own a computer - you can use the library's
seriously - I really hope we can't be so far gone as a society that we're going to accept twitter posts as being reputable without any other kind of verification
.
One lesson a lot of people learned the hard way: if you have prescriptions, always carry a supply in a carryon bag you can fit under a seat. Never assume your bags are going to get there when you do. In fact, I just got a new bag for Christmas.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: ams288
𝑺𝑨𝑾 𝑻𝑯𝑰𝑺 𝑬𝑿𝑷𝑳𝑨𝑰𝑵𝑬𝑹 𝑶𝑵 𝑻𝑾𝑰𝑻𝑻𝑬𝑹Quote:Learning that the Southwest Airlines meltdown is due to an antiquated crew scheduling system that assumes where a crew member is instead of working off live flight data. They’ve lost track of almost every crew member and the only way to solve it is for each one to individually call scheduling to tell them where they are. Their phone lines are swamped and I’ve seen screenshots of crew on hold for 23+ hours trying to get through to scheduling.
Because scheduling can’t keep track of where crew are, crew can’t get a hotel room for themselves in order to start their FAA mandated rest period. Lots of stories of crew members booking their own hotel rooms with the hopes it’ll be reimbursed at some point. Southwest have caught on a little late and are only now stopping the whole operation to get their ducks in a row and to reset everything. Spirit did a similar thing in August last year.
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anybody with a keyboard can post on twitter - you don't even need to own a computer - you can use the library's
seriously - I really hope we can't be so far gone as a society that we're going to accept twitter posts as being reputable without any other kind of verification
.
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I mean, we accept Wikipedia, which anyone can post on and edit.
I think we are, so far gone. Most journalists articles nowadays seem to be just a collection of tweet screenshots with the “writer” adding MAYBE one to two paragraphs of their own writing or adding other sources.
Quote: DRichI almost always choose the cheapest option assuming the schedules are similar and layovers are similar. I am only 5'10" so seat size doesn't mean much to me.
My wife has a flight coming up with a six hour layover in JFK. I think I would rather take a bus than spend six hours in an airport.
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Most FF's and their family can access private lounges. It's not an ideal way to kill a few hours but it's better than being with the c attle at the boarding gate.
Quote: lilredroosterQuote: ams288
𝑺𝑨𝑾 𝑻𝑯𝑰𝑺 𝑬𝑿𝑷𝑳𝑨𝑰𝑵𝑬𝑹 𝑶𝑵 𝑻𝑾𝑰𝑻𝑻𝑬𝑹Quote:Learning that the Southwest Airlines meltdown is due to an antiquated crew scheduling system that assumes where a crew member is instead of working off live flight data. They’ve lost track of almost every crew member and the only way to solve it is for each one to individually call scheduling to tell them where they are. Their phone lines are swamped and I’ve seen screenshots of crew on hold for 23+ hours trying to get through to scheduling.
Because scheduling can’t keep track of where crew are, crew can’t get a hotel room for themselves in order to start their FAA mandated rest period. Lots of stories of crew members booking their own hotel rooms with the hopes it’ll be reimbursed at some point. Southwest have caught on a little late and are only now stopping the whole operation to get their ducks in a row and to reset everything. Spirit did a similar thing in August last year.
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anybody with a keyboard can post on twitter - you don't even need to own a computer - you can use the library's
seriously - I really hope we can't be so far gone as a society that we're going to accept twitter posts as being reputable without any other kind of verification
.
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Feel free to prove my post wrong if you can.
But needlessly whining about Twitter ain’t gonna get you very far.
If you put something like a vital daily prescription in a checked bag then you really need and absolutely deserve a “hard way” lesson.Quote: ThatDonGuyWhile I always fly in on United, usually I fly out on Southwest, as United doesn't fly LAS-OAK and it's a pain having to take my bags on San Francisco's subway from SFO for an hour to where my car is parked (much, MUCH easier and cheaper than driving to/from and parking at SFO).
One lesson a lot of people learned the hard way: if you have prescriptions, always carry a supply in a carryon bag you can fit under a seat. Never assume your bags are going to get there when you do. In fact, I just got a new bag for Christmas.
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Why not put your wallet, keys, phone and passport in the checked bag as well. What could possibly go wrong
pics of luggage piling up - feel bad for the travelers - but I couldn't help chuckling - you don't see a giant corporation screw up this badly very often
next time I travel I'm going to not check luggage - I'll use one of the rollerboards that fits up top that you can use as carry on - that might not work either - if too many people do the same thing it all won't fit and they will force some luggage to be checked
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Quote: billryanQuote: DRichI almost always choose the cheapest option assuming the schedules are similar and layovers are similar. I am only 5'10" so seat size doesn't mean much to me.
My wife has a flight coming up with a six hour layover in JFK. I think I would rather take a bus than spend six hours in an airport.
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Most FF's and their family can access private lounges. It's not an ideal way to kill a few hours but it's better than being with the c attle at the boarding gate.
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Yes, my wife and I both have access to the Delta lounges which definitely help. I would say we usually use them when the layover is more than two hours.
What stinks is there are very few international flights out of our closest airport so we generally have to fly to a hub to get overseas. I recently read that our airport (RSW) is the third largest airport in the U.S. by land size. Although I am surprised by that, it makes more sense because when you drive to the airport it seems like it takes forever to get to the terminal from the time you enter airport property.
Quote:I don’t know what to say. Southwest Airlines has imploded. Their antiquated software system has completely fried. Planes are parked. Crews are stranded in the airports with the passengers, volunteering to take the passengers in the parked planes but the software won’t accept it. Phone lines are overwhelmed for both passenger and crews. I personally spent over two hours trying to get ahold of anyone in the company last night after midnight. A Captain and I did manage to get the one flight put together on Christmas night and got people home. Kudos to the ops agent and dispatcher for making it happen. We had to manually input a lot of the data and it took over an hour to coordinate with dispatch going back and forth running numbers.
We spent hours trying to get the company to answer and get us a hotel when we landed as they’re all sold out. We were only put in a call que for hours before hanging up. I found one hotel with 4 rooms and we bought our own rooms at 2:30am. I even paid for a Flight Attendants room. We literally have crews sleeping on the airport floors all over the country with nowhere to go. Crews have been calling to fly anyone, anywhere, but the company says the system needs a reset. They have effectively shut down the operations for the rest of year, running 1/3 of the flights so that they can let the computer find and locate the crews and aircraft. Gate agents are in tears. They’ve been yelled at, cussed at, slapped and spit on. Flight attendants have been taking a beating. The frontline employees have had little support or communication. Terminals are standing room only with people having been there for days. Pilot lounges are packed with pilots ready to fly and nowhere to go.
Embarrassing is an understatement. I’m going on my second of three days off, still stuck on the east coast and still expected to show up in the morning with no schedule. And I’m willing to fly all day if needed. Because that’s nothing compared to the passengers needing meds in bags that are lost and mothers traveling with kids, having been stuck for the same amount of days in the terminal. In 24 years, I’ve never seen anything like this. Heads need to roll! Rumors on media are floating that there is a lack of crews and pilots are staging sick calls. Absolutely not true at all. This is a computer system meltdown. Thousands of crew members are sitting in hotels and airports with nowhere to go. This airline has failed miserably.
Quote: lilredrooster
anybody with a keyboard can post on twitter - you don't even need to own a computer - you can use the library's
seriously - I really hope we can't be so far gone as a society that we're going to accept twitter posts as being reputable without any other kind of verification
.
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You missed the boat. In terms of general society, your hope has been misplaced for a few years now.
Quote: lilredrooster_______________
pics of luggage piling up - feel bad for the travelers - but I couldn't help chuckling - you don't see a giant corporation screw up this badly very often
next time I travel I'm going to not check luggage - I'll use one of the rollerboards that fits up top that you can use as carry on - that might not work either - if too many people do the same thing it all won't fit and they will force some luggage to be checked
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My plan is to just carry what I can carry in my carry on bag and then just hit a thrift store or low priced store for whatever else I might need when I get to my destination. After I'm done, I can just donate whatever stuff I bought on my way back. It probably wouldn't be that much more expensive (I am not a sharp dresser...lol) and it's difficult to put a price tag on a headache saved.
Then again my mind is blown by the stuff people find the need to fill any open space in their house with so maybe it’s just me.
Quote: JohnzimboLove Southwest, will be booking them soon for February flights. Predict a nice sale next week.
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And...just booked my February flights since prices dropped about $50 overnight
I do feel terrible for everyone who had their holiday plans ruined because of this craziness.
Isn't that a "scam".?Quote: ams288This is all a good reminder to book travel insurance. Just purchased two policies today for upcoming cruises.
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I remember getting that once and there seemed to be a bunch of hoops to jump through like a doctor's visit etc. Whatever the case, I just said F it, it wasn't worth the hassle.
Quote: Mission146Quote: lilredrooster_______________
pics of luggage piling up - feel bad for the travelers - but I couldn't help chuckling - you don't see a giant corporation screw up this badly very often
next time I travel I'm going to not check luggage - I'll use one of the rollerboards that fits up top that you can use as carry on - that might not work either - if too many people do the same thing it all won't fit and they will force some luggage to be checked
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(Quote clipped not to duplicate images)
My plan is to just carry what I can carry in my carry on bag and then just hit a thrift store or low priced store for whatever else I might need when I get to my destination. After I'm done, I can just donate whatever stuff I bought on my way back. It probably wouldn't be that much more expensive (I am not a sharp dresser...lol) and it's difficult to put a price tag on a headache saved.
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In the last ten years I have probably been on close to 500 flights. I only recall checking a bag once and that was so I could bring home a bunch of liquor as gifts for friends. Fortunately, I have convinced my wife that checking baggage is rarely necessary. I am proud to say she is booked on a 15 day European vacation in January and is not checking a bag.
Quote: AxelWolfIsn't that a "scam".?Quote: ams288This is all a good reminder to book travel insurance. Just purchased two policies today for upcoming cruises.
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I remember getting that once and there seemed to be a bunch of hoops to jump through like a doctor's visit etc. Whatever the case, I just said F it, it wasn't worth the hassle.
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I have never bought it every time I begin to read the requirements to file a claim I don't get very far before I say eff it.
Have friends who claim it saved their A... though.
Quote: rainmanQuote: AxelWolfIsn't that a "scam".?Quote: ams288This is all a good reminder to book travel insurance. Just purchased two policies today for upcoming cruises.
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I remember getting that once and there seemed to be a bunch of hoops to jump through like a doctor's visit etc. Whatever the case, I just said F it, it wasn't worth the hassle.
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I have never bought it every time I begin to read the requirements to file a claim I don't get very far before I say eff it.
Have friends who claim it saved their A... though.
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I am actually looking at buying travel insurance for a trip I have planned in May. The only reason I am considering it is because the hotel rate I got was clearly a mistake and I am worried that it will not be honored and I will end up spending thousands of additional dollars to secure a hotel room. If I can find a travel policy that I think will cover it I will go ahead and buy it.
The hotel rate I got was $320 for an eight night stay at a Caribbean resort. The regular price is $320 a night for this resort. Only one site had it at $320 for the trip where almost every other travel site had it at around $320 per night.
Might be worth the cost for peace of mind to some I guess, assuming they’ll actually come through…but yes the few times I’ve considered and looked at how restrictive the T+C was it was a very easy no thanks.
Quote: AxelWolfIsn't that a "scam".?Quote: ams288This is all a good reminder to book travel insurance. Just purchased two policies today for upcoming cruises.
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I remember getting that once and there seemed to be a bunch of hoops to jump through like a doctor's visit etc. Whatever the case, I just said F it, it wasn't worth the hassle.
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There are probably ways or scenarios to do it that are better, I only bought insurance once for a trip in the middle of a bunch of winter storms (I knew it was more likely than not I would have to cancel, and I bought the tickets at the last minute so everything was pricey), and you get all your money back, plus the cost of the insurance back (at least my policy did), so it turned out to be a good deal. It was very easy to get the money, basically just logged on and said I had to cancel the trip, they did not ask for any kind of proof or reasoning. I think it was through USAA and they are very good with quick payouts and no hoops or verifications.
I usually would never buy it, but if it's a last-minute trip where you have to pay way more for a hotel and plane tickets and you know there is a high chance (I think in my head I was pretty much set that I would almost certainly have to cancel) you will have to cancel after the refund period, it's worth the 50-75 dollars (I don't remember exactly what it was, but I am pretty sure it was under 100 at the time).
Yeah, I know insurance is usually -EV(tell that to my cellphone providers (-:). But airline insurance seems to be the 6/5 jacks -while playing 1 coin / Even money no splits or doubling type of -EV.Quote: mcallister3200I mean any non required insurance is inherently negative expectation. These aren’t life changing circumstances people are insuring like a home or health. Exceptions to every rule for different personal situations and all that. But “because the worst airline snafu in history might happen” isn’t it imo.
Might be worth the cost for peace of mind to some I guess, assuming they’ll actually come through…but yes the few times I’ve considered and looked at how restrictive the T+C was it was a very easy no thanks.
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Quote: AxelWolfDo they even sell fully refundable tickets anymore? I haven't seen an option for that lately.
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I only really fly Delta and Southwest and they both do. Just have to pay a lot more for them.
Not worth it since post-Covid they let you change and cancel flights without a fee (SW has always done this). The value of the ticket doesn’t expire on SW and Delta gives you at least a year to use it.
Quote: AxelWolfDo they even sell fully refundable tickets anymore? I haven't seen an option for that lately.
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Yes, I think almost ever airline still offers that option on their most expensive tickets.
Quote: AxelWolfDo they even sell fully refundable tickets anymore? I haven't seen an option for that lately.
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Yes, but it is cheaper in most (basically all) cases to just buy trip insurance (that is essentially what a refundable ticket is, but it strictly applies to the airline tickets and does not cover anything else and is usually/always more expensive than just buying a nonrefundable seat and third-party insurance). Decent trip insurance should be 2-4% of the total cost, a refundable airline ticket is drastically more expensive (and only covers the airline ticket).
For example, a refundable airline ticket would not help you in anyway if you are stranded at a layover airport for several days with no baggage, but trip insurance would.
Trip insurance just gives you far more protection for a lower price (there is no reason to get both).
Have the CLASS ACTION LAWSUITS started yet?
Need to be like Canada was this summer.. if the airline doesn't get you there in less than 8 hours of schedule arrival time you get $1000 per ticket. That was even if tickets were fully paid for with you air miles account
Brother had a nice vacation and got $4000 from WestJet for taking it
I think I would be worried to. I think it is best to sort that out now than on the day you arrive.Quote: DRichI am actually looking at buying travel insurance for a trip I have planned in May. The only reason I am considering it is because the hotel rate I got was clearly a mistake and I am worried that it will not be honored and I will end up spending thousands of additional dollars to secure a hotel room. If I can find a travel policy that I think will cover it I will go ahead and buy it.
The hotel rate I got was $320 for an eight night stay at a Caribbean resort. The regular price is $320 a night for this resort. Only one site had it at $320 for the trip where almost every other travel site had it at around $320 per night.
Seems like there would be a lot of fine-print somewhere that is NOT advantageous to you.
A few years ago, I booked a room on Hotwire for $12. I was pretty sure when I booked it that it was a mistake (typo?) and probably should have been $112 or $12X based on the other rates I was seeing for similar properties. They up and canceled it a week later with no prior notice or explanation. They did refund the charge on my cc.Quote: JohnnyQI think I would be worried to. I think it is best to sort that out now than on the day you arrive.Quote: DRichI am actually looking at buying travel insurance for a trip I have planned in May. The only reason I am considering it is because the hotel rate I got was clearly a mistake and I am worried that it will not be honored and I will end up spending thousands of additional dollars to secure a hotel room. If I can find a travel policy that I think will cover it I will go ahead and buy it.
The hotel rate I got was $320 for an eight night stay at a Caribbean resort. The regular price is $320 a night for this resort. Only one site had it at $320 for the trip where almost every other travel site had it at around $320 per night.
Seems like there would be a lot of fine-print somewhere that is NOT advantageous to you.
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It worked out, though. I called their customer service to ask why it was cancelled and ended up getting a $75 credit that I used to re-book. So, almost a wash.
About two months later, I got a letter of apology and was offered a $200 credit for a ten-minute phone interview. The interview was weird. I thought I'd get an explanation, but the woman just wanted to ask questions.
