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AxelWolf
AxelWolf
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December 29th, 2022 at 9:07:21 AM permalink
Quote: Gandler

Quote: AxelWolf

Do they even sell fully refundable tickets anymore? I haven't seen an option for that lately.
link to original post



Yes, but it is cheaper in most (basically all) cases to just buy trip insurance (that is essentially what a refundable ticket is, but it strictly applies to the airline tickets and does not cover anything else and is usually/always more expensive than just buying a nonrefundable seat and third-party insurance). Decent trip insurance should be 2-4% of the total cost, a refundable airline ticket is drastically more expensive (and only covers the airline ticket).

For example, a refundable airline ticket would not help you in anyway if you are stranded at a layover airport for several days with no baggage, but trip insurance would.

Trip insurance just gives you far more protection for a lower price (there is no reason to get both).
link to original post

It seems to me there might be some benefits if one is planning an expensive vacation. I'm not one to take expensive vacations. Traveling is a pain in the ass for many reasons. There are really only a few places I'm really interested in and they are all in the USA.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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December 29th, 2022 at 10:05:55 AM permalink
I’ve always traveled a lot. I think I’m over 60 countries now. When kids were younger they often would be brought along. There is no doubt I’ve saved mid 5 figures by never buying travel insurance. Twice I would have used it.
Once got back to port in Galveston and needed to rebook airfare. Probably cost us 1 night cheap hotel and then I think $600 for new airfare.
Once stepdaughter got sick before cruise right at the beginning of pandemic. That was about $1000.

There are so many different variations of travel insurance. You aren’t getting ‘I can’t go on my trip, give me all my money back’ for 2%!

If my flights are canceled to Florida wifey and I will drive. I wanted to drive but wifey’s back doesn’t like two 12 hour days of driving! I will save big $$$ if we drive as rental car for a month in Fla is big $$$. Plus we get the SW miles back for the canceled flight.
Gandler
Gandler
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December 29th, 2022 at 11:09:20 AM permalink
Quote: AxelWolf

Quote: Gandler

Quote: AxelWolf

Do they even sell fully refundable tickets anymore? I haven't seen an option for that lately.
link to original post



Yes, but it is cheaper in most (basically all) cases to just buy trip insurance (that is essentially what a refundable ticket is, but it strictly applies to the airline tickets and does not cover anything else and is usually/always more expensive than just buying a nonrefundable seat and third-party insurance). Decent trip insurance should be 2-4% of the total cost, a refundable airline ticket is drastically more expensive (and only covers the airline ticket).

For example, a refundable airline ticket would not help you in anyway if you are stranded at a layover airport for several days with no baggage, but trip insurance would.

Trip insurance just gives you far more protection for a lower price (there is no reason to get both).
link to original post

It seems to me there might be some benefits if one is planning an expensive vacation. I'm not one to take expensive vacations. Traveling is a pain in the ass for many reasons. There are really only a few places I'm really interested in and they are all in the USA.
link to original post



I agree, especially right now it is worse than ever.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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December 30th, 2022 at 8:45:03 AM permalink
WATCH: Airport Cop Threatens to Arrest Stranded Passengers Waiting In Line To Reschedule Flights - TYT - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDel3pwLl0A

Where are the prompt refunds?
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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December 30th, 2022 at 4:03:26 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

WATCH: Airport Cop Threatens to Arrest Stranded Passengers Waiting In Line To Reschedule Flights - TYT - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDel3pwLl0A

Where are the prompt refunds?
link to original post



I cancelled mine and wife’s flights today. Full refund immediately as I paid with points and I think $11 fee.

I also canceled the car rental which was also paid for with….. 190,000 points! Full refund except for a single $35 fee since it is some 3rd party they use. The most amazing thing was there was no wait on hold! I’m now going to drive down. 12 hours first day. Hotel. 4 hours to have lunch with son in Gainesville. Then get to Siesta Key dinner time!

I’m expecting a really big sale when they start flying all their flights.
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
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December 30th, 2022 at 4:10:37 PM permalink
If Buttigieg makes Southwest pay $10,000 fines for each passenger they didn't reimburse soon, expect bankruptcy maybe.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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December 31st, 2022 at 3:09:56 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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December 31st, 2022 at 4:03:26 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
Last edited by: gamerfreak on Dec 31, 2022
DRich
DRich
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December 31st, 2022 at 5:06:54 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post



Gary Kelly was the CEO for close to 16 years. he transitioned the company from a low cost carrier to a mainline carrier. I always liked Kelleher as he was just an odd duck that built a terrific company.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
DRich
DRich
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December 31st, 2022 at 5:08:52 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: ChumpChange

WATCH: Airport Cop Threatens to Arrest Stranded Passengers Waiting In Line To Reschedule Flights - TYT - YouTube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wDel3pwLl0A

Where are the prompt refunds?
link to original post



I cancelled mine and wife’s flights today. Full refund immediately as I paid with points and I think $11 fee.

I also canceled the car rental which was also paid for with….. 190,000 points! Full refund except for a single $35 fee since it is some 3rd party they use. The most amazing thing was there was no wait on hold! I’m now going to drive down. 12 hours first day. Hotel. 4 hours to have lunch with son in Gainesville. Then get to Siesta Key dinner time!

I’m expecting a really big sale when they start flying all their flights.
link to original post



Soopoo. I hope you get down soon before the cold sets in. I think next week is going to be down in the 70's. Bring a sweater.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
gamerfreak
gamerfreak
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Joined: Dec 28, 2014
December 31st, 2022 at 7:07:18 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post



Gary Kelly was the CEO for close to 16 years. he transitioned the company from a low cost carrier to a mainline carrier. I always liked Kelleher as he was just an odd duck that built a terrific company.
link to original post


I didn’t realize he was CEO that long, regardless I think he is the most to blame for this fiasco.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
December 31st, 2022 at 11:14:12 AM permalink
Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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Joined: Aug 8, 2010
December 31st, 2022 at 1:07:23 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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Thanked by
SanchoPanza2
December 31st, 2022 at 2:06:44 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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Joined: Aug 8, 2010
December 31st, 2022 at 7:40:06 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
unJon
unJon
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Joined: Jul 1, 2018
December 31st, 2022 at 9:47:04 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
link to original post



That doesn’t really hang together. The difference between a stock buyback and a dividend, from Uncle Sam’s point of view, is only the tax rate where a dividend is taxed as ordinary income and a share sold back to the company in a stock buyback is taxed as a capital gain (where if the sold share was held for at least a year, it gets the lower capital gains rate).

If a company is going to return $100m to shareholders via dividend or stock buyback, that whole $100m is going to get taxed by Uncle Sam, just a question of at what rate. Uncle Sam doesn’t care if Warren Buffet or Joe Schmo sold into the buyback and pays the tax, as long as they get to tax the aggregate.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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Joined: Nov 2, 2009
January 1st, 2023 at 2:32:54 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
link to original post



That doesn’t really hang together. The difference between a stock buyback and a dividend, from Uncle Sam’s point of view, is only the tax rate where a dividend is taxed as ordinary income and a share sold back to the company in a stock buyback is taxed as a capital gain (where if the sold share was held for at least a year, it gets the lower capital gains rate).

If a company is going to return $100m to shareholders via dividend or stock buyback, that whole $100m is going to get taxed by Uncle Sam, just a question of at what rate. Uncle Sam doesn’t care if Warren Buffet or Joe Schmo sold into the buyback and pays the tax, as long as they get to tax the aggregate.
link to original post



You forgot to mention the dividends are taxed twice. Which is pure theft on the part of our government. As is paying taxes on inflation when you sell.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 1st, 2023 at 5:49:45 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
link to original post



That doesn’t really hang together. The difference between a stock buyback and a dividend, from Uncle Sam’s point of view, is only the tax rate where a dividend is taxed as ordinary income and a share sold back to the company in a stock buyback is taxed as a capital gain (where if the sold share was held for at least a year, it gets the lower capital gains rate).

If a company is going to return $100m to shareholders via dividend or stock buyback, that whole $100m is going to get taxed by Uncle Sam, just a question of at what rate. Uncle Sam doesn’t care if Warren Buffet or Joe Schmo sold into the buyback and pays the tax, as long as they get to tax the aggregate.
link to original post



I guess you just are unaware of the law. If the stocks are not sold during your lifetime then they are NEVER taxed.

Last post on this as it’s a hijack.
DRich
DRich
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January 1st, 2023 at 5:52:00 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO


I guess you just are unaware of the law. If the stocks are not sold during your lifetime then they are NEVER taxed.



It is amazing that people do not understand that you don't have a gain until you sell the stock.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
unJon
unJon
  • Threads: 14
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Joined: Jul 1, 2018
January 1st, 2023 at 5:55:08 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
link to original post



That doesn’t really hang together. The difference between a stock buyback and a dividend, from Uncle Sam’s point of view, is only the tax rate where a dividend is taxed as ordinary income and a share sold back to the company in a stock buyback is taxed as a capital gain (where if the sold share was held for at least a year, it gets the lower capital gains rate).

If a company is going to return $100m to shareholders via dividend or stock buyback, that whole $100m is going to get taxed by Uncle Sam, just a question of at what rate. Uncle Sam doesn’t care if Warren Buffet or Joe Schmo sold into the buyback and pays the tax, as long as they get to tax the aggregate.
link to original post



I guess you just are unaware of the law. If the stocks are not sold during your lifetime then they are NEVER taxed.

Last post on this as it’s a hijack.
link to original post



Huh? Did you read what I wrote. If there’s a stock buyback, then someone sells and US gets to tax that. So Uncle Sam gets to tax the same amount of money (at a different rate) in a dividend or stock buyback.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
  • Threads: 122
  • Posts: 11139
Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 1st, 2023 at 7:49:40 AM permalink
Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
link to original post



That doesn’t really hang together. The difference between a stock buyback and a dividend, from Uncle Sam’s point of view, is only the tax rate where a dividend is taxed as ordinary income and a share sold back to the company in a stock buyback is taxed as a capital gain (where if the sold share was held for at least a year, it gets the lower capital gains rate).

If a company is going to return $100m to shareholders via dividend or stock buyback, that whole $100m is going to get taxed by Uncle Sam, just a question of at what rate. Uncle Sam doesn’t care if Warren Buffet or Joe Schmo sold into the buyback and pays the tax, as long as they get to tax the aggregate.
link to original post



I guess you just are unaware of the law. If the stocks are not sold during your lifetime then they are NEVER taxed.

Last post on this as it’s a hijack.
link to original post



Huh? Did you read what I wrote. If there’s a stock buyback, then someone sells and US gets to tax that. So Uncle Sam gets to tax the same amount of money (at a different rate) in a dividend or stock buyback.
link to original post



A stock buyback only results in taxes if the seller is selling at a price higher than they bought. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my Warren Buffett example that he pays no taxes on his BRK stock that appreciates during his lifetime. If BRK paid a dividend he would have. You are being obtuse. Why?
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 1st, 2023 at 7:55:06 AM permalink
Back on topic. SWA has ridiculously low fares now, at least some! I should pull the trigger and get Roundtrip to Puerto Rico in March for less than $300 roundtrip (less than 25k points). We’ve been to San Juan twice. Wifey really liked it.
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
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January 1st, 2023 at 8:13:32 AM permalink
https://abcnews.go.com/WNT/video/southwest-ceo-promises-reimbursements-95997323
There's emptiness behind their eyes There's dust in all their hearts They just want to steal us all and take us all apart
unJon
unJon
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Joined: Jul 1, 2018
January 1st, 2023 at 8:18:36 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: unJon

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: SOOPOO

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: gamerfreak

Quote: AZDuffman

Quote: ChumpChange

People are getting their flights cancelled on them and their baggage is being supposedly flown to their destinations without their owners on the same cancelled flights. There's some decades old software for crew scheduling that crashed. There's new management plundering for profits, and the airline is in a grid-down situation. Luggage could be lost for over 30 days. Alternative means of transportation aren't available, or if available at very high prices. This is a developing story, and airline disaster. There's no official communication coming from the airlines. Their customer service lines are unresponsive. There's a couple of missives on reddit from insiders of the airline. I don't fly, so don't ask me about this mess, but Vegas is a transportation hub and it's the holiday season.
link to original post



Plundering for profits?
link to original post



Southwest did not do well under the previous CEO Gary Kelly. Apparently he knew how bad the tech was, but choose to reduce wages and use the excess cash for stock buybacks rather than updating all of these legacy systems.

Plundering seems like an apt word when a CEO comes in, runs a company into the ground in just a few years, and ejects with a golden multi-million dollar parachute.
link to original post




I fail to see the problem people have with stock buybacks. More corporations should be doing them. And I do not see how taking a carrier from regional to a major is “running it into the ground.”
link to original post



Southwest has been a booming success until the recent events.
Stock buybacks should be illegal. Companies should be required to give that money to shareholders in the form of dividends. It is the giant scam that allows the stockholders from averting/delaying paying taxes on the income! Warren Buffett is the master at this. Not having BRK give a dividend EVER is the greatest tax avoidance in history.
link to original post



Not paying taxes? They did pay taxes---AT THE CORPORATE LEVEL! The reason for buybacks over dividends is because too many people do not understand this simple concept. Why should a stockholder have to pay taxes twice?

More companies should be doing buybacks as they are better than dubious investments like Ford buying Volvo then losing how many billions on it? RJ Reynolds buying Nabisco only to have that all broken up 10 years later? Buybacks return money to the owners.

And oh, yeah. They do not escape taxes because we tax capital gains.
link to original post



Warren Buffett has owned his stock for decades and has not paid ONE PENNY in taxes on the shares he has not sold. Assuming he dies before selling he will have paid NO TAXES on the massive accumulation of wealth his entire life, minus whatever lots he has sold. Buybacks fo return money to the owners is a manner that avoids paying what most would consider ‘their fair share’ of taxes. Dividends are treated like income resulting in the shareholder paying ‘his fair share’.
link to original post



That doesn’t really hang together. The difference between a stock buyback and a dividend, from Uncle Sam’s point of view, is only the tax rate where a dividend is taxed as ordinary income and a share sold back to the company in a stock buyback is taxed as a capital gain (where if the sold share was held for at least a year, it gets the lower capital gains rate).

If a company is going to return $100m to shareholders via dividend or stock buyback, that whole $100m is going to get taxed by Uncle Sam, just a question of at what rate. Uncle Sam doesn’t care if Warren Buffet or Joe Schmo sold into the buyback and pays the tax, as long as they get to tax the aggregate.
link to original post



I guess you just are unaware of the law. If the stocks are not sold during your lifetime then they are NEVER taxed.

Last post on this as it’s a hijack.
link to original post



Huh? Did you read what I wrote. If there’s a stock buyback, then someone sells and US gets to tax that. So Uncle Sam gets to tax the same amount of money (at a different rate) in a dividend or stock buyback.
link to original post



A stock buyback only results in taxes if the seller is selling at a price higher than they bought. This has ABSOLUTELY NOTHING to do with my Warren Buffett example that he pays no taxes on his BRK stock that appreciates during his lifetime. If BRK paid a dividend he would have. You are being obtuse. Why?
link to original post



Yes now I agree with what you wrote. I don’t believe Buffet would have let BRK pay a dividend if stock buybacks were disallowed. He would have ended up, IMO, keeping the money in BRK and buying more portfolio companies.

We have a disagreement about whether companies should be allowed to buy their own stock and, it seems, whether someone should have to pay taxes on unrealized gains in stock. Happy to carry those over to another thread.

Government will get the money it’s entitled to when he dies.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
SOOPOO
SOOPOO
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Joined: Aug 8, 2010
January 1st, 2023 at 9:08:47 AM permalink
Government may get ZERO If he donates to charity in his will they see zero of it in taxes. For whatever he leaves to heirs, that will be subject to inheritance taxes, but not capital gains taxes.

By the way, I’m no fool. I take advantage of the tax rules as much as I can. If I need to sell a stock I’ve had for a long time I try and sell the underperformers which might be around even. So no tax. While the overprtformers I just hold.
unJon
unJon
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Joined: Jul 1, 2018
January 1st, 2023 at 11:02:04 AM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Government may get ZERO If he donates to charity in his will they see zero of it in taxes. For whatever he leaves to heirs, that will be subject to inheritance taxes, but not capital gains taxes.

By the way, I’m no fool. I take advantage of the tax rules as much as I can. If I need to sell a stock I’ve had for a long time I try and sell the underperformers which might be around even. So no tax. While the overprtformers I just hold.
link to original post



I’m fine with government not getting a bite if it goes to a 501(c) charity.
The race is not always to the swift, nor the battle to the strong; but that is the way to bet.
DRich
DRich
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Joined: Jul 6, 2012
January 1st, 2023 at 12:58:14 PM permalink
Quote: SOOPOO

Government may get ZERO If he donates to charity in his will they see zero of it in taxes. For whatever he leaves to heirs, that will be subject to inheritance taxes, but not capital gains taxes.



Yes, but only amounts over $12,060,000. The first twelve is exempted.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
gordonm888
Administrator
gordonm888
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January 1st, 2023 at 1:11:33 PM permalink
Let's stay on topic please. SouthWest airlines, not Warren Buffett and tax policy
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
DRich
DRich
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Joined: Jul 6, 2012
January 1st, 2023 at 1:30:08 PM permalink
Quote: gordonm888

Let's stay on topic please. SouthWest airlines, not Warren Buffett and tax policy
link to original post



Sorry.

Do any of you remember when they would occasionally play games on southwest airlines flights? I don't remember where I was going but the flight attendants asked any person that wanted to play a game to take off one shoe and give it to the flight attendant. After collecting shoes from the participants they handed the shoes back out randomly to anyone that was playing. They started from the front of the plane and asked anyone that was missing a shoe to walk down the aisle and find the person that had your shoe and introduce yourself to them and ask them where they were from or where they are going. When it was over we found out that some of the shoes contained coupon books for free drinks.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
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