Asswhoopermcdaddy
Asswhoopermcdaddy
Joined: Nov 30, 2009
  • Threads: 86
  • Posts: 555
December 15th, 2010 at 10:33:33 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I would agree that letting the robber go was preferable to getting into a gunfight in the casino. However, I disagree on the value of the chips. I would roughly estimate that about $25,000 get successfully presented.



Letting the guy go makes some sense. You don't want any patrons getting caught in a crossfire. That would be a lawsuit for negligence and wreckless endangerment waiting to happen. However, I'm still surprised that he managed to escape. I can only imagine a mob like security guard taking him down inside or outside the casino without hesitation. Old vegas style or any of the scenes from Ocean 11. Anyone remember the scene where the security uses his nightstick and knocks the assailant down or the shootout outside the casino?
WizardofEngland
WizardofEngland
Joined: Nov 2, 2010
  • Threads: 61
  • Posts: 638
December 15th, 2010 at 10:35:07 AM permalink
I'm guessing on what I know about RFID tech, but I believe each chip would be identified individually, and each unique number is then assigned a value, such as $25 or $25k

The question is, how good are the staff at logging in and out each and every chip, each and every time they come in and out the cage?
Would they know for sure which numbers were taken? Whatever the truth, the official story will be that they know exactly which chips were taken.
http://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/general/10042-woes-black-sheep-game-ii/#post151727
austintx
austintx
Joined: Oct 6, 2010
  • Threads: 3
  • Posts: 23
December 15th, 2010 at 12:27:34 PM permalink
It is my understanding that Nevada rules (and most state rules) are such that casino chips/cheques are not allowed to be traded, sold, or used in any way outside of the casino itself. So it would be perfectly legal for Bellagio to review ID and play of everyone cashing in larger demoninations of chips to see if those chips were actually won at the casino itself by that said player trying to cash it in. The problem is that doing this could annoy players and turn business away. And the robber will lay low and not try to cash anything in (except a stray $100 chip just to test the situation) for a long time. Will Bellagio still be so tight 6 months from now? The guy will probably try to pawn these chips off for a few thousand and let someone else worry about trying to cash them in slowly. To me, I would buy 1.5 million in chips for $15,000 and then think of all these grand schemes to get more than $15,000 value out of them.

To me, most of casino security is the aura of security, rather than actual security. So the fact that someone could break in and steal something and walk right out goes counter to that aura, but really quite easy to pull off. For the casino to have real security and guards standing around ready to pounce would intimidate players and is not good for business. And now we are inventing tracking systems and private armed forces of the casino going after the guy. That is also a farce. In reality, the casino will do what most other business do after a robbery, which is to collect insurance and move on and not worry about it.
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
December 15th, 2010 at 12:56:53 PM permalink
Quote: austintx

To me, most of casino security is the aura of security, rather than actual security. So the fact that someone could break in and steal something and walk right out goes counter to that aura, but really quite easy to pull off. For the casino to have real security and guards standing around ready to pounce would intimidate players and is not good for business. And now we are inventing tracking systems and private armed forces of the casino going after the guy. That is also a farce. In reality, the casino will do what most other business do after a robbery, which is to collect insurance and move on and not worry about it.



I don't agree that security is just an aura. I think significant resouces are used to protect the most critical areas of the casino (e.g., the counting room, the drop box collection, cash in and out of the building and gambling instruments like dice and cards). Where the casino would really be hurt would be to lose cash, so it has been my observation that they do a lot to protect it, including the use of armed security on a crowded floor.

I recall walking into Bellagio shortly after it opened, and being amazed that the cashier did not have a cage. It was just an extra wide, open counter. At the time I was strolling past, a cashier was counting a large stack of cash as if nothing special needed to be done to protect them. I was pretty amazed. A short time later, I read that the cage had been robbed by someone who just jumped over the counter and grabbed whatever they could before running off. The next time I walked through there, all the cashier areas had cages.

This type of intrusion should lead to a change. The report I heard, was that it was a table in the Poker Room that got held up. What if several patron's chips were taken? Would the casino make them whole? How would they know how big each person's loss was, especially in a poker room?
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 173
  • Posts: 10367
December 15th, 2010 at 2:14:41 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

The report I heard, was that it was a table in the Poker Room that got held up. What if several patron's chips were taken? Would the casino make them whole? How would they know how big each person's loss was, especially in a poker room?



I'm doubting that a casino would replace a customer's stolen chips, or cash -- except when they felt like it was good business to do so in a particular case.

Although, such could lead to a different twist in trying to rob a casino. That is, if you could conspire with some patrons to come in and rob them knowing that the casino is going to reimburse them --- then you all split the take, but since you still have their money, you have your profit there.

Don't think you could count on anything for sure there, so I doubt it would be worth even trying. (for whatever it's worth going to prison or being killed even)
Everything is in high definition today except Bigfoot and UFOs
Ayecarumba
Ayecarumba
Joined: Nov 17, 2009
  • Threads: 236
  • Posts: 6763
December 15th, 2010 at 2:26:07 PM permalink
The Hilton sportsbook was robbed in September of 2008 under similar circumstances. Motorcycle helmeted, gun toting bandits were in and out of book in a matter of minutes with a reported $57K in cash and chips.

Here is a link to a summary. There was also an article in the LVRJ. I don't know if these guys were ever caught.
Simplicity is the ultimate sophistication - Leonardo da Vinci
PaulEWog
PaulEWog
Joined: Jan 2, 2010
  • Threads: 9
  • Posts: 110
December 15th, 2010 at 2:47:38 PM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

I'm guessing on what I know about RFID tech, but I believe each chip would be identified individually, and each unique number is then assigned a value, such as $25 or $25k

The question is, how good are the staff at logging in and out each and every chip, each and every time they come in and out the cage?
Would they know for sure which numbers were taken? Whatever the truth, the official story will be that they know exactly which chips were taken.



I know a bit about RFID and at least one RFID chip maker says inventories can be done "nearly instantly", so they probably know exactly what is missing.

RFID scanners can also be mounted in various locations, including doorways and at least some of the chips can be read from up to 3 meters. So it may be possible that as the robber ran out the door they got the full inventory of what he had. Following it one step further, if he or someone else walks back in with one they'll know that too.
rxwine
rxwine
Joined: Feb 28, 2010
  • Threads: 173
  • Posts: 10367
December 15th, 2010 at 2:55:55 PM permalink
The solution for the Bellagio robber -- to cash them in at gunpoint!

(a bonehead solution to a boneheaded robbery)
Everything is in high definition today except Bigfoot and UFOs
FleaStiff
FleaStiff
Joined: Oct 19, 2009
  • Threads: 265
  • Posts: 14484
December 15th, 2010 at 3:01:18 PM permalink
I won't name the casino but one major casino had a shooting incident several years ago wherein multiple suspects and multiple guards exchanged gunfire and not one single solitary guard was able to land a shot anywhere near what he was aiming at. The review of the incident and the film of the incident is said to have lead the casino to disarm its guards for a few years.

Security is often an aura of non-visibility, sports jacketed personnel with little but radios or the like. However, a lot of background activity takes place. Patrols of parking lots, casino patrols, armed escorts for critical functions, etc. do take place.

It is said that Willie Sutton when asked why he robbed banks, replied to the reporter with the simple comment: Because thats where the money is. As to robbing casinos a modern-day Willie Sutton might say: Because thats where there are chips and cash and everyone is in a festive mood, half-sloshed and focused intently on other activities than protecting their money.

I don't know why neither security nor surveillance spotted a helmeted person on the casino floor. That should have been an instant flag. And an instant response at the perimeter exits.

Most casinos now have cashier windows with rather formidable barriers to physical entry or to the ability to extend a weapon into the cage and aim it laterally. Subterranean security procedures are formidable because of the concentration of material from the count rooms much of which must be stored on-site for a designated period of time. Access is through a series of unmarked or deceptively marked doorways and most entry is from the corridor into a man-trap rather than the room itself.

A casino is a festive location and the casino hopes to at all times be crowded. Its not a place for gun play, particularly by guards who probably haven't kept up their marksmanship if they ever had any to begin with. However, off the casino floor guards are not always that hesitant to return gunfire in elevators and staircases or secluded hallways.

I recall one shooting incident at a Strip Casino wherein initial news reports named the casino and later news reports said that the incident took place "at a Las Vegas casino". Public relations plays a role in everything, I guess.
ItsCalledSoccer
ItsCalledSoccer
Joined: Aug 30, 2010
  • Threads: 42
  • Posts: 735
December 15th, 2010 at 3:02:52 PM permalink
Quote: WizardofEngland

I'm guessing on what I know about RFID tech, but I believe each chip would be identified individually, and each unique number is then assigned a value, such as $25 or $25k

The question is, how good are the staff at logging in and out each and every chip, each and every time they come in and out the cage?
Would they know for sure which numbers were taken? Whatever the truth, the official story will be that they know exactly which chips were taken.



Would they have to be good at logging stuff in and out? If the RFID chips are not recognized when the cashout is made, they could still get the bandits using the videotape, couldn't they?

  • Jump to: