Bellagion Robbery! $1.5 -$2 million in chips stolen
http://pheedo.msnbc.msn.com/click.phdo?i=5f2998d66cf05d5b2d94b58d34006386
http://content.usatoday.com/communities/ondeadline/post/2010/12/gunman-on-motorcycle-robs-bellagio-casino-of-15-million-in-chips/1
If the Bellagio is prepared the way they are supposed to be, they will have changed their entire inventory of chips, or at least of the denomination he stole, within 24 hours.
The cashing out is what I wonder about. Dont the casinos have a spare set of chips for occasions such as these which can be swapped out?
I wonder if the intent is to run the old "Im catching my flight in half an hour so Ill sell you these Bellagio chips for x less than face value" scam on gullible tourists.
He's going to get caught, because he's going to want to make money on this.
What would you do with 1.5 million of chips, we'll say 500K in $500 chips, 1 mil in $100 chips?
Quote: FinsRuleI'm trying to figure out how this guy will possibly make any money on this. With all the publicity this is going to get, who wants to be a part of helping this guy cash these chips.
He's going to get caught, because he's going to want to make money on this.
What would you do with 1.5 million of chips, we'll say 500K in $500 chips, 1 mil in $100 chips?
Take years to cash them in at various other casino's.
Quote: DJTeddyBearThey'll make nice souvenirs. If the Bellagio is prepared the way they are supposed to be, they will have changed their entire inventory of chips, or at least of the denomination he stole, within 24 hours.
This is getting out of my area but the casinos have to give some kind of advance notice when they want to change the chips. In that time the thief can fence them off for x cents on the dollar, and his accomplices will come in with chips they "forgot to cash from my last trip." Unless they catch the guy, the Bellagio will be out that money, in my opinion, lest they had insurance.
Step 2, Casino changes chips
Step 3, repeat step one and 2
Step 4, when casino swaps chips back to the "orginal" style, PROFIT!
I thought the notice requirements related when they want to retire a set of chips and no longer be required to honor them. No notice is required to switch to the second-set of chips ... and require positive identification for all persons turning in the old chips to get the new chips.Quote: Wizard...the casinos have to give some kind of advance notice when they want to change the chips.
Many casinos accept "foreign cheques" and there is some firm that goes around collecting all the accumulated foreign cheques and returning them to the proper casino, but the word can be spread real fast if a second set of chips is ordered.
Though these days, a casino might accept some chips in its high limit room and then decide that it received the warning fax too late.
Someone to watch the motorcycle?
Someone to do crowd blocking if there is a security guard chasing him?
That boxman sure capitulated real fast. Anyone wonder? Or is it better to lose chips than have gunplay in the casino?
There was a team doing daring jewel store robberies in Europe that used getaway motorcycles. Maybe someone is reading the papers and learning!
Quote: TIMSPEEDTake years to cash them in at various other casino's.
That's illegal in Nevada.
The higher denomination chips will have an approval process to cash requiring ID's, players club card, and a verification of the computer and your "action". Unfortunately, poker player will suffer some in the process. But since I believe there is a Bravo system for poker, their time played and stakes played will most likely be looked at before chips are cashed.
For those with large amounts in their safe deposit boxes, they can look at the signature card for when it was last accessed, and may advise players to cash out their chips, or exchange them.
The casino has the ability to protect itself, and will. Expect to be hassled if you have chips you "forgot to cash" on your last trip, especially is more than a few hundred.
If it was me, I'd only cash the smaller ones, $100 or less, and very slowly, in the poker room.
Does anyone know what the "float" usually is on the Bellagio craps tables?
I'm thinking if the guy took everything off it, he'd have maybe 1000 1's, 1500 5's, 2000 25's, 1000 100's, and way too many big denominations that won't be able to be cashed by anyone not known to be a high roller. They will get fenced, or discarded, IMHO.
Quote: Croupier
I wonder if the intent is to run the old "Im catching my flight in half an hour so Ill sell you these Bellagio chips for x less than face value" scam on gullible tourists.
He wouldn't even have to even set foot in the casino to try and pull this one. Smart! I'm sure there are plenty of suckers hanging around Las Vegas to take the bait, too.
Quote: ElectricDreamsHe wouldn't even have to even set foot in the casino to try and pull this one. Smart! I'm sure there are plenty of suckers hanging around Las Vegas to take the bait, too.
With denominations that large, they would have to be some stupid stupid tourists from idiot land.
And the airport cops would probably pick up on them after a few days. Oh, wait, Las Vegas cops? Make that a few months. Than, they would probably shoot him 6 times in the back. :(
"But I thought the chip in his hand was a gun."
Quote: FleaStiffI thought the notice requirements related when they want to retire a set of chips and no longer be required to honor them. No notice is required to switch to the second-set of chips ... and require positive identification for all persons turning in the old chips to get the new chips.
That is true, good point. Still, "players" will show with the old ones saying they were left over from a previous trip. It will also take some time to make up the new chips. Meanwhile, the stolen ones will be much easier to get cashed. The $25,000 ones will present a problem.
Reminds me of a story. A couple years ago I was owed some money by somebody. He paid me mostly with about 14 yellow $1,000 chips of a discontinued style from a certain Vegas casino I won't mention. He was apologetic about making me take them, but said they still accepted the old style. It was my plan to cash them in 2 or 3 at a time. I did this twice before I was rebuffed. They said I didn't have the kind of play to have so many old yellow chips. When I complained to my friend about it he said he would arrange to have a known big player cash them in and get me the cash, but I'd have to wait until said "big player" was in town. However, I was in a hurry to get the money, so attempted to bet with them in the sports book. They accepted them without argument. Fortunately, this happened just before the Super Bowl, and I had plenty of props I wanted to bet anyway.
Quote: FleaStiffMany casinos accept "foreign cheques" and there is some firm that goes around collecting all the accumulated foreign cheques and returning them to the proper casino, but the word can be spread real fast if a second set of chips is ordered. Though these days, a casino might accept some chips in its high limit room and then decide that it received the warning fax too late.
In my experience, casinos are slow to accept foreign cheques (chips from other Vegas casinos) these days. They usually do so only for known good players, and they don't like taking lots of them.
As for any small denomination chips, I don't know if its more cost effective to swap out the lower denominations or if they're tagged at all. I suspect the casino will just claim their insurance policy and proceed with the swap out of the large denominations.
Odd how security didn't respond faster though?? You are still in the middle of a freaking desert. Not as classy as Oceans 11, but impressive nonetheless.
"Pardon me, Sir, you'll have to take that gun outside. We don't allow firearms inside the casino."
The guy one a motorcycle can usually elude any pursuit, if there is no helicopter involved. Also, perhaps he had a car stashed in the parking lot next door, or down the street.
Don't know.
BTW:
I have a Bellagio chip for $1,000.00 I forgot to cash last trip. If anyone is going to Las Vegas, I will be happy to accept $900.00.
"No? OK, how about $800.00?
"No? How about $8.95 and I'll toss in a nice chip holder key ring.?" :)
Quote: AsswhoopermcdaddyI suspect the large denominations are worthless and will be swapped out asap. They are probably tagged with RFIDs. Once those hit the cages, they'll be traced and the person cashing them prodded. The problem occurs when teams try to the work the action and start breaking change. Then you're screwed. Hence you need to swap out the larger denominations or at least scan the chips at the table where you have action.
As for any small denomination chips, I don't know if its more cost effective to swap out the lower denominations or if they're tagged at all. I suspect the casino will just claim their insurance policy and proceed with the swap out of the large denominations.
Odd how security didn't respond faster though?? You are still in the middle of a freaking desert. Not as classy as Oceans 11, but impressive nonetheless.
I'm pretty sure they RFID at least $100 and up. I don't know where I get this from, but I think big casinos keep a whole second set of chips in the vault. If so, they probably rotated them into play as fast as possible, and got the old ones out of there. There will still be old ones floating around. They will be in a delicate position when questioning people who have them. If they refuse them they will risk losing legitimate players who had the chips legitimately.
Oddly they would have done better robbing a table at a smaller place (Binnys, Fremont etc) they would be less likely to have RF and less able to rotate new series of checks.
Quote: WizardI'm pretty sure they RFID at least $100 and up. I don't know where I get this from, but I think big casinos keep a whole second set of chips in the vault. If so, they probably rotated them into play as fast as possible, and got the old ones out of there. There will still be old ones floating around. They will be in a delicate position when questioning people who have them. If they refuse them they will risk losing legitimate players who had the chips legitimately.
In the book "Super Casino" they tell of how a mere 10 $1,000 chips were swiped from a table of I forget which game at Luxor. The casino had a new design, from a reserve, that very night. 1-2 people got caught trying to turn in some of them and some lawyer I think gave the rest back. Point being, they are ready for a distract-and-grab so they should have something in reserve for the $500 and up.
Stealing anything at $500 and above seems silly since they will be so hard to cash in. How many people keep $500s in any quantity? You could walk up and play with them, but again youy will attract loads of attention. Sort of as if you were to steal the Mona Lisa--what do you do with it after you have it?
Either way, Terry Benedict is not going to be a fun guy to be around for a few weeks.........
There were 75 "hits".
No big denominations though.
DRATS! I thought I might've been able to help recover some of them for the reward.
Quote: AZDuffmanIn the book "Super Casino" they tell of how a mere 10 $1,000 chips were swiped from a table of I forget which game at Luxor. The casino had a new design, from a reserve, that very night.
I remember on American Casino some counterfeit chips were being passed off at Green Valley Ranch. The emergency chips were out pretty soon after, and a new design with ultraviolet markings was on the floor in about a week.
Quote: Wizard
Reminds me of a story. A couple years ago I was owed some money by somebody. He paid me mostly with about 14 yellow $1,000 chips
Theres a similar story out there by a Vegas columnist who was given 5K chip from MGM for a debt and when he tried to cash it in, they wanted to know where he got it and when they found out he didn't win it, they kept it and didn't pay him. He wrote an article about it.
Quote: EvenBobTheres a similar story out there by a Vegas columnist who was given 5K chip from Ceasars for a debt and when he tried to cash it in, they wanted to know where he got it and when they found out he didn't win it, they kept it and didn't pay him. He wrote an article about it.
I'd like to read that story. Can you give me any leads to find it, such as the publication or writer?
Quote: WizardI'd like to read that story. Can you give me any leads to find it, such as the publication or writer?
Its fairly recent, it happened after they ruled that casino chips belong to the casino and not the people who buy them. I'll see if I can find it.
Ya can't buy publicity like this
Don't recall, it's been year. Maybe find something on 2+2 archives about it.
Than, there was also the Stupak / Binion's thing, I don't know whatever happened there, but Becky Binion refused to honor some $5K chips, claimed they were all accounted for.
http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/counterfeiters-net-36000-so-far-using-fake-gambling-chips/story-e6freuy9-1225702963902
1) Before the weekend
2) Before Christmas
3) Before the end of the year
4) By spring
5) After that, but still caught
6) Never
My guess is before Christmas.
Edit: Hey, it's my anniversary as a member.
Quote: Mosca
Edit: Hey, it's my anniversary as a member.
Nice to see you were celebrating in style. How was the Bellagio? :P
Quote: RoadTrip
Than, there was also the Stupak / Binion's thing, I don't know whatever happened there, but Becky Binion refused to honor some $5K chips, claimed they were all accounted for.
Yeah but chances are Becky didn't have 5k in the cage.
Quote: RoadTrip
Than, there was also the Stupak / Binion's thing, I don't know whatever happened there, but Becky Binion refused to honor some $5K chips, claimed they were all accounted for.
Yeah but chances are Becky didn't have 5k in the cage.
Quote: MoscaHow about bets on how long until the perp is caught?
I go with #5, "After (spring), but still caught."
Quote: MoscaHow about bets on how long until the perp is caught?
I will go with sometime in the month of January. I think with the holidays coming up, it will be hard for LVPD to devote resources to the investigation. Also, the perp will be laying low. However, I think he will try to pass some of the chips on New Year's eve, which will lead to his arrest in January.
Quote: rxwineAccording to the evening 10pm Fox news (local), these large denomination chips are microchipped and/or serial numbered in some manner.
I have visions of a guy somewhere smashing open a 25k chip to find the micro chip
Quote: CroupierNice to see you were celebrating in style. How was the Bellagio? :P
Hehe.....
Actually, when I was there in October I did manage to win one $1000 chip, and I had no problem cashing it, didn't need to show ID. Probably because I only had one.
Quote: renoI just saw the video footage of the robber running out of the Bellagio. My question: how come there were no security guards chasing him? Sure it was 4am, but there still must have been plenty of security guards on duty. And the robber probably had quite a long distance to go between the craps table and the exit.
I actually think they handled it very well, no shots were fired, no-one got hurt, and the guy probably has less than $100 worth of plastic composite chips that he probably can't cash, and even if he did, they will claim on the insurance. Last thing I want them to do is try and detain an armed robber within the confines of the property.
If we assume he doesnt actually cash the large denominations, they might even make a profit from the insurance. Plus a load of publicity.
Quote: WizardofEnglandI actually think they handled it very well, no shots were fired, no-one got hurt, and the guy probably has less than $100 worth of plastic composite chips that he probably can't cash, and even if he did, they will claim on the insurance. Last thing I want them to do is try and detain an armed robber within the confines of the property.
If we assume he doesnt actually cash the large denominations, they might even make a profit from the insurance. Plus a load of publicity.
Not for nothing, but the high-security UV/RFID chips are not cheap. They're in the $3 range/chip.
Quote: MathExtremistNot for nothing, but the high-security UV/RFID chips are not cheap. They're in the $3 range/chip.
Even still, not a massive loss
Quote: WizardofEnglandI actually think they handled it very well, no shots were fired, no-one got hurt, and the guy probably has less than $100 worth of plastic composite chips that he probably can't cash, and even if he did, they will claim on the insurance. Last thing I want them to do is try and detain an armed robber within the confines of the property.
I would agree that letting the robber go was preferable to getting into a gunfight in the casino. However, I disagree on the value of the chips. I would roughly estimate that about $25,000 get successfully presented.
$25K, plus a couple grand in the cost of manufaturing those chips - compared to the cost of the negative publicity that would have generated if a patron got hit with a stray bullet.Quote: WizardI would agree that letting the robber go was preferable to getting into a gunfight in the casino. However, I disagree on the value of the chips. I would roughly estimate that about $25,000 get successfully presented.
Yeah, if I was security, I would have been holding the door open for him...
Quote: WizardI would agree that letting the robber go was preferable to getting into a gunfight in the casino. However, I disagree on the value of the chips. I would roughly estimate that about $25,000 get successfully presented.
Even 25k is just a fraction of what they took, I assume the insurance would pay out at least half? Even 10% payout would be good for the casino.
Quote: WizardofEnglandEven 25k is just a fraction of what they took, I assume the insurance would pay out at least half? Even 10% payout would be good for the casino.
I doubt the insurance company would pay half unless the policy specifically addressed such a percentage they were required to pay in this kind of robbery. Independent experts might have to be consulted to arrive at a fair award.
Quote: WizardI'm pretty sure they RFID at least $100 and up. I don't know where I get this from, but I think big casinos keep a whole second set of chips in the vault. If so, they probably rotated them into play as fast as possible, and got the old ones out of there. There will still be old ones floating around. They will be in a delicate position when questioning people who have them. If they refuse them they will risk losing legitimate players who had the chips legitimately.
Wizard, with the RFID tag, wouldn't they be able to scan the chip, and know that it was part of the stolen batch? Then wouldn't they be able to say, sir you are in possession of stolen chips and refuse to cash them. Plus bring in the police and NGC to review the matter. It is illegal not to return stolen property, which would lead to the question, how did you obtain the merchandise. Just like the police can confiscate stolen merchandise from a pawn shop, wouldn't it be the same logic for stolen chips?
This assumes that you can actually identify the chips on an individual level.
Quote: MoscaHow about bets on how long until the perp is caught?
1) Before the weekend
2) Before Christmas
3) Before the end of the year
4) By spring
5) After that, but still caught
6) Never
My guess is before Christmas.
Edit: Hey, it's my anniversary as a member.
There's a 7th option here. Caught but never publicly disseminated. This person is going to be swimming with the fishes.
