Impact of gas prices
This makes the round trip from Southern California to Vegas and back about a $100 to $125 expense.
It must be hurting the drive in business which is at least half of Vegas visitation.
Quote: vegasGas here in Canada has also gone up a lot. The cost of a gallon is around $6.00.
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Is that adjusted to US dollars per gallon?
Quote: AlanMendelsonAs of tonight, Sunday Feb 6th, AAA is reporting regular gas prices around Southern California are about $4.74 per gallon.
This makes the round trip from Southern California to Vegas and back about a $100 to $125 expense.
It must be hurting the drive in business which is at least half of Vegas visitation.
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I don't think an extra 30-$50 roundtrip is going to stop people willing to gamble thousands and spend the same on bottle service and lap dances. It might knock out some low rollers intent on playing $3 BJ for the weekend. Gas in Nevada is much cheaper so you only have to buy the expensive gas on the way there. The return trip will be much cheaper.
This weekend, gas in Tombstone was going the other way. A gas war had one place at $2.99 and the other three stations in the $3.10 range, fifty cents a gallon cheaper than in Bisbee. I could drive to Tombstone, buy lunch and still save a few pennies over the cost of filling up here.
The average national gas price for January 2022 was $3.41.
In July 2008 the average national gas price was $4.105, which is about $5.32 in today's dollars.
From 2011 to 2014, the average gas price bounced around between $3.32 and $3.95, which in today's dollars is $4.11 and $4.90.
Source
Quote: billryanI don't think an extra 30-$50 roundtrip is going to stop people willing to gamble thousands and spend the same on bottle service and lap dances. It might knock out some low rollers intent on playing $3 BJ for the weekend.
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There are a lot of people who take one hotel room for four and have a gambling budget of $300 for a weekend.
Maybe the crime rate will go down?
Quote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanI don't think an extra 30-$50 roundtrip is going to stop people willing to gamble thousands and spend the same on bottle service and lap dances. It might knock out some low rollers intent on playing $3 BJ for the weekend.
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There are a lot of people who take one hotel room for four and have a gambling budget of $300 for a weekend.
Maybe the crime rate will go down?
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Those are the folks that stay in Primm to save a few bucks on gas. They won't be missed.
I had a friend who wouldn't fly to Vegas if the fare was over $400 Roundtrip. He skipped a SB party and stayed in the frozen tundra of Long Island over $30 one year.
Quote: DieterQuote: vegasGas here in Canada has also gone up a lot. The cost of a gallon is around $6.00.
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Is that adjusted to US dollars per gallon?
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Yes in Canada it is 1.50-1.60 a liter. It takes about 4 liters to make a gallon so it would be around 6 dollars if it were in gallons
Quote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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High speed rail should be all over the US at this point. Apparently there's no such thing as a "Big Train" lobby in this country.
Quote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
Quote: billryanQuote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
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With cheap airfares I don't see the point. I recently bought an airline ticket from Southwest Florida to new Haven CT for $29 each way. As long as airfares are cheap I can't see the point of a train.
Quote: billryanQuote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
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Ok. Then where? I guess you’ve never experienced I-15 NB on a Friday night or even worse, SB on a Sunday. LOL
Quote: VegasriderQuote: billryanQuote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
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Ok. Then where? I guess you’ve never experienced I-15 NB on a Friday night or even worse, SB on a Sunday. LOL
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I get from Laa Vegas to Pasadena in 3.5 hours. The key is to drive when few others are.
Quote: VegasriderQuote: billryanQuote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
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Ok. Then where? I guess you’ve never experienced I-15 NB on a Friday night or even worse, SB on a Sunday. LOL
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I have,, on a few occasions but I've spent far more time stuck in traffic between NYC and just about anywhere. I'd love to see a true high-speed train between DC and Boston with a stop in NYC.
Quote: billryanQuote: VegasriderQuote: billryanQuote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
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Ok. Then where? I guess you’ve never experienced I-15 NB on a Friday night or even worse, SB on a Sunday. LOL
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I have,, on a few occasions but I've spent far more time stuck in traffic between NYC and just about anywhere. I'd love to see a true high-speed train between DC and Boston with a stop in NYC.
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How long do the current express trains take on that route?
Quote: billryanThe fact it is too congested is why you need trains.
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Too many infrastructures already in place. You would need to wipe out a lot of buildings and roads along the entire EC including Manhattan and that’s not going to happen unless it’s all underground, which is realistic.
Quote: DRichQuote: billryanQuote: VegasriderQuote: billryanQuote: VegasriderI can’t believe there isn’t a high speed train that goes from LA to Vegas. All talk but no action l. So much more convenient to take a train than to fly or even drive. It should have 2-3 stops. LA -OC and maybe somewhere in San Bernardino.
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If I was building a high-speed train, I can think of a few dozen places I'd build before LA-Vegas.
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How long do the current express trains take on that route?
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To the best of my knowledge, there is no passenger rail service between LV and LA. I know Amtrak goes thru Reno one a day in each direction. Oakland and Salt Lake City and beyond
Quote: DRich
With cheap airfares I don't see the point. I recently bought an airline ticket from Southwest Florida to new Haven CT for $29 each way. As long as airfares are cheap I can't see the point of a train.
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$29 is an EXTREME outlier when it comes to plane ticket prices. You're only getting that kind of price between very specific markets at very specific times. The vast majority of airfares are nowhere NEAR that cheap.
Quote: billryanQuote: AlanMendelsonQuote: billryanI don't think an extra 30-$50 roundtrip is going to stop people willing to gamble thousands and spend the same on bottle service and lap dances. It might knock out some low rollers intent on playing $3 BJ for the weekend.
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There are a lot of people who take one hotel room for four and have a gambling budget of $300 for a weekend.
Maybe the crime rate will go down?
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Those are the folks that stay in Primm to save a few bucks on gas. They won't be missed.
I had a friend who wouldn't fly to Vegas if the fare was over $400 Roundtrip. He skipped a SB party and stayed in the frozen tundra of Long Island over $30 one year.
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I guess you missed those months during the pandemic when the best Strip hotels were taken over by Compton?
Quote: TigerWuQuote: DRich
With cheap airfares I don't see the point. I recently bought an airline ticket from Southwest Florida to new Haven CT for $29 each way. As long as airfares are cheap I can't see the point of a train.
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$29 is an EXTREME outlier when it comes to plane ticket prices. You're only getting that kind of price between very specific markets at very specific times. The vast majority of airfares are nowhere NEAR that cheap.
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Of course you are right. The point being is to just plan your travel around the cheap prices. I had no particular interest in going to New Haven, but it turns out that it is close to NYC.
Quote: DRichQuote: TigerWuQuote: DRich
With cheap airfares I don't see the point. I recently bought an airline ticket from Southwest Florida to new Haven CT for $29 each way. As long as airfares are cheap I can't see the point of a train.
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$29 is an EXTREME outlier when it comes to plane ticket prices. You're only getting that kind of price between very specific markets at very specific times. The vast majority of airfares are nowhere NEAR that cheap.
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Of course you are right. The point being is to just plan your travel around the cheap prices. I had no particular interest in going to New Haven, but it turns out that it is close to NYC.
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You most likely will have to pay extra for seat assignment, checked baggage, carryon overhead baggage. I think Frontier and Spirit are really ala carte. And if you are UBERing it from New Haven to Times Square, as an example , that could be a 2 hour ride. Add multipliers if bad traffic!
Anyway, gasoline usage tends to be relatively inelastic. A 10% increase in prices might not even decrease usage by 1%.
Quote: SOOPOOQuote: DRichQuote: TigerWuQuote: DRich
With cheap airfares I don't see the point. I recently bought an airline ticket from Southwest Florida to new Haven CT for $29 each way. As long as airfares are cheap I can't see the point of a train.
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$29 is an EXTREME outlier when it comes to plane ticket prices. You're only getting that kind of price between very specific markets at very specific times. The vast majority of airfares are nowhere NEAR that cheap.
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Of course you are right. The point being is to just plan your travel around the cheap prices. I had no particular interest in going to New Haven, but it turns out that it is close to NYC.
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You most likely will have to pay extra for seat assignment, checked baggage, carryon overhead baggage. I think Frontier and Spirit are really ala carte. And if you are UBERing it from New Haven to Times Square, as an example , that could be a 2 hour ride. Add multipliers if bad traffic!
Anyway, gasoline usage tends to be relatively inelastic. A 10% increase in prices might not even decrease usage by 1%.
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I won't pay for seats, baggage, carryon, etc. My wife and i are cheap flyers, we only pay for a carryon if it is over a week long trip.
We will probably use the train and subway system for the majority of our transportation.
My God, I can't remember the last time I paid even close to $400 to fly to Vegas. Most I spent cash I believe was $250. Now I use miles, or fly Spirit which is almost never more than $100 each way -- often much, much less.Quote: billryanThose are the folks that stay in Primm to save a few bucks on gas. They won't be missed.
I had a friend who wouldn't fly to Vegas if the fare was over $400 Roundtrip. He skipped a SB party and stayed in the frozen tundra of Long Island over $30 one year.
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Quote: billryanFlights from NYC have been in the $300-$400 range since I started flying regularly back in 2001. You get an occasional sale, and you can get cheaper flights if you are willing to stop and or switch planes but I'd budget $500 per trip for airfare and transportation to and from the airport. I'd usually come in under budget which meant no matter how bad the trip was, it ended on a positive note.
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I just did a random search and there are lots of RT flights from NYC to LAS for $200-$250 if you are willing to fly the budget airlines and conform to their schedules. Obviously not good for everybody but I am a price first shopper. If I can save a $100 I will endure a couple hour layover. I also do not pay for seats and do not check any luggage, I may buy a coke on the flight but that is the only extra money they are getting from me.
Quote: TigerWu
High speed rail should be all over the US at this point. Apparently there's no such thing as a "Big Train" lobby in this country.
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There is, it is called Amtrak and we give it billions.
High speed rail simply will not work in the USA. In the places people will want to go things are too built up. Acquiring the ROW and having to demolish all the buildings, build all the bridges over surface streets, etc. How many people do you know that want high speed rail tracks in their backyard? Look at CA for an example. How many tens of billions already spend for that high speed rail SF to LA. But it will no longer go SF to LA. It keeps getting shorter to places nobody wants to go between.
Then there are the stops. For rail to make sense you need stops along the way. All of the sudden your 200 mph peak speed is an average 80 as you stop at places.
Airplanes do the job. The airports are built. To change a route you just change airports. No stops, just a hub-and-spoke system where they are needed and point to point for full routes.
America rules the world in freight rail. Because for freight rail makes sense. There is a reason airlines killed the RRs off. Because air travel is more efficient in the USA.
Quote: AZDuffman(snip) Because air travel is more efficient in the USA.
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That's probably true. I still think there is room for rail travel to expand in the US, especially over shorter distances, like between two major cities. There has been talk for years of a rail line between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. It's a two hour drive at most, so it would be stupid to fly. A high speed rail would be perfect because there are no real stops in-between to slow it down, and it would open up whole new pools of people for job opportunities to commute between the two cities. Not to mention in-state tourism, as well.
Quote: TigerWuQuote: AZDuffman(snip) Because air travel is more efficient in the USA.
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That's probably true. I still think there is room for rail travel to expand in the US, especially over shorter distances, like between two major cities. There has been talk for years of a rail line between Tulsa and Oklahoma City. It's a two hour drive at most, so it would be stupid to fly. A high speed rail would be perfect because there are no real stops in-between to slow it down, and it would open up whole new pools of people for job opportunities to commute between the two cities. Not to mention in-state tourism, as well.
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If it is a 2 hour drive why on earth would you take a train?
If you are to have a passenger rail system in the USA it has to be either a monopoly or a monopoly owning the tracks and tracks would be like airports with carriers paying for slots. Even then it does not work for all but the northeast.
Lets use your OK example. 2 hours is not a long drive. Most people will choose to drive. Say they want to take the train. I show this as about 100 miles, Assume a train can get ROW for the shortest distance (it can't.) Train takes 1 hour. But that is to the station. Once you get there you need a cab or Uber to get to your final destination. Even if that only adds 20 minutes your time savings are down to 30 minutes or so. Your cost savings are almost nothing now.
Another but. The train has just a few departures a day! Unless the train leaves at the time you want you have lost your time savings!
America is not Europe or Asia. Americans travel to a wider variety of destinations and at more varied times. A bullet train gets you to Tokyo and you have all kinds of options to get to your actual destination. A train takes you from NYC to Syracuse and you are stuck at the station.
Quote: AZDuffman
If it is a 2 hour drive why on earth would you take a train?
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Because I hate driving. That's the only reason I need.
We'll probably see more and more bicyclists, and who knows, Americans (at least those of us not living in a major city) may discover rapid transit, if available.
I feel especially "bad" for those folks living out in the middle of nowhere, having to drive sixty or more miles to go shopping, or to see a doctor.
Given their proclivity to drive gas hog pick up trucks I suspect they'll feel the pinch more than most.
Quote: MrVGot to wonder how folks earning minimum wage are going to be able to continue to drive with gas prices going up the way they are.
We'll probably see more and more bicyclists, and who knows, Americans (at least those of us not living in a major city) may discover rapid transit, if available.
I feel especially "bad" for those folks living out in the middle of nowhere, having to drive sixty or more miles to go shopping, or to see a doctor.
Given their proclivity to drive gas hog pick up trucks I suspect they'll feel the pinch more than most.
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De facto minimum wage is $10-12 per hour. $5 gas is thus about 30 minutes of work. The same 30 minutes of work it was back when I was in college. You deal with it by planning ahead, driving less when you can. Not fun but that is what you do.
I doubt we become a communist China type bicycle country. Rapid transit is not happening this or next lifetime. Eventually we drill and get more supply pushing prices back down.
The thing is we had behavior changes in the 70s because back then it was not that gas was expensive it was you could not get it, just not available. People today do not grasp how that was.
Quote: AZDuffmanQuote: MrVGot to wonder how folks earning minimum wage are going to be able to continue to drive with gas prices going up the way they are.
We'll probably see more and more bicyclists, and who knows, Americans (at least those of us not living in a major city) may discover rapid transit, if available.
I feel especially "bad" for those folks living out in the middle of nowhere, having to drive sixty or more miles to go shopping, or to see a doctor.
Given their proclivity to drive gas hog pick up trucks I suspect they'll feel the pinch more than most.
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De facto minimum wage is $10-12 per hour. $5 gas is thus about 30 minutes of work. The same 30 minutes of work it was back when I was in college. You deal with it by planning ahead, driving less when you can. Not fun but that is what you do.
I doubt we become a communist China type bicycle country. Rapid transit is not happening this or next lifetime. Eventually we drill and get more supply pushing prices back down.
The thing is we had behavior changes in the 70s because back then it was not that gas was expensive it was you could not get it, just not available. People today do not grasp how that was.
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When independent truckers and tradesmen decide they cant afford gas prices anymore, January 6 will look like a song fest.
For people who want to talk about the nightmares of not getting gas in the 1970s, I wonder how many of them were around for it?
I remember waiting on gas lines for about three weeks in 1973/74 and again in 1979 for a couple of weeks. It wasn't a big deal and as soon as the gas lines became a thing, NY switched to alternate days where you could only get gas on odd and even days depending on your license plate. The worse gas lines I ever saw in NY were after SuperStorm Sandy and that's because so few gas stations had generators to keep the gas flowing with no electricity.
We adjusted our driving habits and no longer bought land yachts, switching to more economical vehicles. Boo hoo.
Quote: billryanWhen truckers decide they can't afford gas anymore, they will be replaced by people who can afford it, and by firms that saw the future and switched to EVs ahead of the curve.
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I think the buildout of heavy truck recharging infrastructure is going to take "a while".
Until then, I think the truckers may just decide not to move freight without a suitable rate adjustment.
If you drive an EV BECAUSE of environmental reasons but simultaneously use all of multiple tablets, a laptop, a television; and a smartphone that all serve similar functions and all have the gross mining elements you’re doing it for the propaganda and “feel good” not the environment.
Quote: DieterQuote: billryanWhen truckers decide they can't afford gas anymore, they will be replaced by people who can afford it, and by firms that saw the future and switched to EVs ahead of the curve.
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I think the buildout of heavy truck recharging infrastructure is going to take "a while".
Until then, I think the truckers may just decide not to move freight without a suitable rate adjustment.
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Then their trucks will sit idle and they will go broke. What a shame. The good news is there are plenty of other jobs for them. A degree in trucking makes them so employable.
Quote: billryanWhen truckers decide they can't afford gas anymore, they will be replaced by people who can afford it, and by firms that saw the future and switched to EVs ahead of the curve.
For people who want to talk about the nightmares of not getting gas in the 1970s, I wonder how many of them were around for it?
I remember waiting on gas lines for about three weeks in 1973/74 and again in 1979 for a couple of weeks. It wasn't a big deal and as soon as the gas lines became a thing, NY switched to alternate days where you could only get gas on odd and even days depending on your license plate. The worse gas lines I ever saw in NY were after SuperStorm Sandy and that's because so few gas stations had generators to keep the gas flowing with no electricity.
We adjusted our driving habits and no longer bought land yachts, switching to more economical vehicles. Boo hoo.
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Many states had odd/even also $5 max purchase. Not what you want to deal with.
EV big rigs might one day be fine for local delivery but OTR is s years off. And I find it condescending to tell a struggling trucker he should have bought an EV when high oil prices are largely self inflicted by bad policies.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xiTaLqUCMk
Electricity supply charges went from around to 6.7 cents per kw-hr and tripled to 19.6 cents per kw-hr. I suppose natural gas prices more than doubled too. People are getting their utility bills now. Really, there's nothing to say except "ouch."
Quote: billryanQuote: DieterQuote: billryanWhen truckers decide they can't afford gas anymore, they will be replaced by people who can afford it, and by firms that saw the future and switched to EVs ahead of the curve.
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I think the buildout of heavy truck recharging infrastructure is going to take "a while".
Until then, I think the truckers may just decide not to move freight without a suitable rate adjustment.
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Then their trucks will sit idle and they will go broke. What a shame. The good news is there are plenty of other jobs for them. A degree in trucking makes them so employable.
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Well a lot of them just go from independent to company; instead of worrying about the squeeze between brokers and fuel, they just get around $25/hr to drink free coffee and look out the window.
Meanwhile, consumers are welcome to decide if they want to pay $3 for a roll of toilet paper or do without.
Now he is saying he can't make payments on his custom tractor because fuel is too high.
Beginning on January 1, 2022, the standard mileage rates for the use of a car (also vans, pickups or panel trucks) will be:
58.5 cents per mile driven for business use, up 2.5 cents from the rate for 2021,
18 cents per mile driven for medical, or moving purposes for qualified active-duty members of the Armed Forces, up 2 cents from the rate for 2021 and
14 cents per mile driven in service of charitable organizations; the rate is set by statute and remains unchanged from 2021.
https://www.irs.gov/newsroom/irs-issues-standard-mileage-rates-for-2022
Any professional gamblers claiming mileage as a deduction, or just using gas pump receipts? I suppose it breaks towards using the pump prices when gas is over $14.63 a gallon on a 25 mpg car. (250 miles x $0.585 = $146.25 divided by 10 gallons = $14.63/gallon)
Quote: billryanWhen truckers decide they can't afford gas anymore, they will be replaced by people who can afford it, and by firms that saw the future and switched to EVs ahead of the curve.
For people who want to talk about the nightmares of not getting gas in the 1970s, I wonder how many of them were around for it?
I remember waiting on gas lines for about three weeks in 1973/74 and again in 1979 for a couple of weeks. It wasn't a big deal and as soon as the gas lines became a thing, NY switched to alternate days where you could only get gas on odd and even days depending on your license plate. The worse gas lines I ever saw in NY were after SuperStorm Sandy and that's because so few gas stations had generators to keep the gas flowing with no electricity.
We adjusted our driving habits and no longer bought land yachts, switching to more economical vehicles. Boo hoo.
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I covered the truckers strikes on the east coast during the Arab oil embargo.
There was no rush of substitute drivers then.
And with a shortage of truckers now because of Covid the situation is set for an even bigger problem.
Dont you know we have a trucker shortage now?
