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Marcusclark66
Marcusclark66
Joined: Mar 26, 2020
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October 20th, 2021 at 3:51:00 AM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Quote: AlanMendelson

Several years ago I made a whopper of a cash deposit at a Bank of America here in Vegas after a big win. I was asked for certain information for the CTR.

What troubled me is that the bank DID NOT ask where the cash came from. I wanted them to know that it came from CASINO WINNINGS because i knew i had losses to offset this win on my taxes.

The bank didnt want to hear anything about the casino. What they wanted was my BUSINESS INFO. And ONLY my business info was entered on the CTR.

This worried me, because I was afraid that this large cash deposit would raise red flags about my business and I was not going to include this large cash transaction as business income.

For that year I did report a loss on gambling and there were no repercussions. This happened more than five years ago.

So a question: have any of you actually had a CTR filed after depositing a large cash casino win and did your bank ask you about the casino and record the casino as the source of the cash??
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Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

The assumption that the casino gives one single, solitary, lonesome, isolated **** about where the money comes from is a curious one.

Sure, you probably couldnít walk in and directly tell them itís drug money, stolen money, whateverÖbut itís not like they ask a whole hell of a lot of questions.



If it is over $10k they must report where the money came from. They are resposnible for asking you where it came from. If you say it came from your job, they will ask what you do. If you say lawyer for example they will ask what law firm and the address. They will also run your name through various databases to try and confirm it and make sure that you are not a Politically Exposed Person.
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Quote: unJon

I occasionally withdraw more than $10k from my bank. Without fail they ask me every time what my occupation is.
link to original post


I pulled $50,000. in cash on a recent win, and took the other $50K in check form, on a $100K+ winning session. I decided to deposit the cash at a different casino, not that I needed it, but just I figured - withdraw from one casino, a CTR must have been issued, deposit at another, the incoming CTR will cancel out any potential questions (if any questions are being asked). At least until I withdraw the cash again, but anyway, I figured, why not.

When I deposited the $50K cash the incoming recipient casino gave me a form to fill out that had some choices as to the source of the cash. I asked them why they wanted this.

"You've never asked for anything like this from me before."

The answer was that I had not deposited large sums of cash with them before - and this is true, generally I just withdraw cash or checks as winnings I don't deposit anything. I am a credit line player.

I didn't read through the form closely because the one option "Winnings from another casino" stood out, so I just checked it and filled in the blank for the name of the casino where I won the $100K+. I even showed the cashier a photo on my phone of the winning check for the other half and said, "See, here is the other half I won, I won even more than $50K there," but cage didn't seem to care.

"That's fine, just fill out the form, that's all we need."

Also the form included some lines for my occupation. I told the cage that they already had all that, they agreed, so I didn't have to fill out that portion. Nor did I have to fill out all the info about my identity, just filled in my name, as they have all that too.

But bottom line being that yes, if you try to deposit a bunch of cash apparently even a known player may be asked to identify its source.
link to original post



FYI, CTRs are automatically generated once you are established at any given casino property. Each time you engage in a $10k cash transaction it will be issued and sent in. No need for a patron to ever sign it, see it or even be told it is being generated. Depending on the casinos protocols, possibly every year or more, the patrons ID might be verified.

All sections are not necessary, especially for an established player.

As well, once established SARS/STRa are almost never generated. They are for those that refuse ID and are acting suspicious according to guidelines issued by the government, etc.
Marcus Clark. Real Person; AKA MarcusClark66. *Professional Casino Security Expert. *Certified EMT *Certified Company Firearms Instructor. *Certified Gaming Regulations Interpreter for Corporate Applications. *Domestic UrbanTactical Combat Casualty Expert. *Tic-Tac-Toe Expert (Real Competitive Versions) & Mastering Chess. *Honorary & Official #1 Fan of the MDawg Adventures Club. *Mastering Cracking it. Bit-by-Bit, Piece-by-Piece Crediting Forum Members. *Certified Casino Property Entry & Exit Point Analyzer *Baccarat Winning Session Record: 12 out of 12 & 1 out of 1 Mini Session. Baccarat Losing Session Record: 2 Losing Sessions.
ben771williams
ben771williams
Joined: Oct 11, 2021
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October 20th, 2021 at 5:34:46 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Why would anyone try to launder money thru a casino when there are literally thousands of small businesses that have far fewer eyes on them and don't have state regulators all over them.?
link to original post



I don't know what this is about... There is such an assumption. And to satisfy their needs (there are addicted people), or it is profitable...
I was at a table where a guy was betting mad stacks, including on bad bets on other players spots; he was losing a lot and didnít mind. One of the other guys, I think he owned gas stations (also betting a lot) hit royal flush and the guy had a piece of it. I got the strong feeling that the guy betting on other peopleís spots was a dealer. I canít prove it, maybe he was hired by dealers to launder for them; but I figure there are lower house edge games than the way he was playing. He probably still lost a bundle after a massive win gave him some back.

I would think a logical launderer would either play simple, low house edge games like Baccarat. Itís possible they might choose craps, as you can get more money on the table with odds and that brings the house edge even lower. You might be able to play $500 pass line and $1500Ė5000 odds since 3Ė4Ė5x odds is common and some places do 10x odds. But, you have to fill out forms if you cash out or buy in for $10k+ in a day. Of course, you can save chips for the next day or have friends cash in chips.
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
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October 20th, 2021 at 6:38:19 AM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

I was in a cash-out line at closing time and several people had loads of big money chips in their hands. The cashier was asking for a Player's Card or an ID if the cash-out amount was over a certain amount. What that amount is, I don't know. But $3700 sure made one foreign person with no Player's Card have to show a DL. $100, they don't ask. So that limit could be anywhere between $100-$3700. For sure they enter your cash-out in the computer for a daily CTR. I'd expect the limit to be $2500 or $3K, but people were so flush with cash, maybe the limit is lower.
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I trained our personnel to start asking for ID at $3000 and fill in the Multiple Transaction Log.
Order from chaos
DogHand
DogHand
Joined: Sep 24, 2011
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October 20th, 2021 at 6:53:11 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I trained our personnel to start asking for ID at $3000 and fill in the Multiple Transaction Log.
link to original post



DRich,

What do you tell your personnel to do if the customer wants to cash in $4K in chips but declines to show ID?

Dog Hand
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 80
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October 20th, 2021 at 7:16:31 AM permalink
Quote: DogHand

Quote: DRich

I trained our personnel to start asking for ID at $3000 and fill in the Multiple Transaction Log.
link to original post



DRich,

What do you tell your personnel to do if the customer wants to cash in $4K in chips but declines to show ID?

Dog Hand
link to original post



Allow them to cash out but write down a description of then in case they try to cash in more. If they get to $10k refuse to cash out anymore until they produce ID.
Order from chaos
ChumpChange
ChumpChange
Joined: Jun 15, 2018
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October 20th, 2021 at 4:28:23 PM permalink
If I'm trying to win $15,000 on a Bubble Craps machine in one day and the machine doesn't register above $3,000 credits but instead spits out vouchers starting at a sub-$3,000 balance, and the vouchers have a one year expiration date, can I just bring back a couple dozen <$400 vouchers (won by playing the Don'ts, might be a higher amount if it includes the original bet) to cash-in on another day, or I could just use them like "take home chips" and use them for play on another day? My buy-in would likely be $1500.

I've heard talk at the Bubble Craps machine about antics going on at the real craps tables nearby. A couple stories: one guy put $400 on each of the hardways and won 2 in a row; another guy was winning big and was up $30K so they closed the table, he went to another table and they closed that one too.
Last edited by: ChumpChange on Oct 20, 2021
AxelWolf
AxelWolf
Joined: Oct 10, 2012
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October 20th, 2021 at 6:09:16 PM permalink
Quote: ChumpChange

If I'm trying to win $15,000 on a Bubble Craps machine in one day and the machine doesn't register above $3,000 credits but instead spits out vouchers starting at a sub-$3,000 balance, and the vouchers have a one year expiration date, can I just bring back a couple dozen <$400 vouchers (won by playing the Don'ts, might be a higher amount if it includes the original bet) to cash-in on another day, or I could just use them like "take home chips" and use them for play on another day? My buy-in would likely be $1500.

I've heard talk at the Bubble Craps machine about antics going on at the real craps tables nearby. A couple stories: one guy put $400 on each of the hardways and won 2 in a row; another guy was winning big and was up $30K so they closed the table, he went to another table and they closed that one too.
link to original post

You can and I highly doubt there would be any issues, but that could be considered structuring.
♪♪Now you swear and kick and beg us That you're not a gamblin' man Then you find you're back in Vegas With a handle in your hand♪♪ Your black cards can make you money So you hide them when you're able In the land of casinos and money You must put them on the table♪♪ You go back Jack do it again roulette wheels turinin' 'round and 'round♪♪ You go back Jack do it again♪♪
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
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October 25th, 2021 at 3:53:03 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Quote: AlanMendelson

Several years ago I made a whopper of a cash deposit at a Bank of America here in Vegas after a big win. I was asked for certain information for the CTR.

What troubled me is that the bank DID NOT ask where the cash came from. I wanted them to know that it came from CASINO WINNINGS because i knew i had losses to offset this win on my taxes.

The bank didnt want to hear anything about the casino. What they wanted was my BUSINESS INFO. And ONLY my business info was entered on the CTR.

This worried me, because I was afraid that this large cash deposit would raise red flags about my business and I was not going to include this large cash transaction as business income.

For that year I did report a loss on gambling and there were no repercussions. This happened more than five years ago.

So a question: have any of you actually had a CTR filed after depositing a large cash casino win and did your bank ask you about the casino and record the casino as the source of the cash??
link to original post


Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

The assumption that the casino gives one single, solitary, lonesome, isolated **** about where the money comes from is a curious one.

Sure, you probably couldnít walk in and directly tell them itís drug money, stolen money, whateverÖbut itís not like they ask a whole hell of a lot of questions.



If it is over $10k they must report where the money came from. They are resposnible for asking you where it came from. If you say it came from your job, they will ask what you do. If you say lawyer for example they will ask what law firm and the address. They will also run your name through various databases to try and confirm it and make sure that you are not a Politically Exposed Person.
link to original post


Quote: unJon

I occasionally withdraw more than $10k from my bank. Without fail they ask me every time what my occupation is.
link to original post


I pulled $50,000. in cash on a recent win, and took the other $50K in check form, on a $100K+ winning session. I decided to deposit the cash at a different casino, not that I needed it, but just I figured - withdraw from one casino, a CTR must have been issued, deposit at another, the incoming CTR will cancel out any potential questions (if any questions are being asked). At least until I withdraw the cash again, but anyway, I figured, why not.

When I deposited the $50K cash the incoming recipient casino gave me a form to fill out that had some choices as to the source of the cash. I asked them why they wanted this.

"You've never asked for anything like this from me before."

The answer was that I had not deposited large sums of cash with them before - and this is true, generally I just withdraw cash or checks as winnings I don't deposit anything. I am a credit line player.

I didn't read through the form closely because the one option "Winnings from another casino" stood out, so I just checked it and filled in the blank for the name of the casino where I won the $100K+. I even showed the cashier a photo on my phone of the winning check for the other half and said, "See, here is the other half I won, I won even more than $50K there," but cage didn't seem to care.

"That's fine, just fill out the form, that's all we need."

Also the form included some lines for my occupation. I told the cage that they already had all that, they agreed, so I didn't have to fill out that portion. Nor did I have to fill out all the info about my identity, just filled in my name, as they have all that too.

But bottom line being that yes, if you try to deposit a bunch of cash apparently even a known player may be asked to identify its source.
link to original post


I deposited $20K cash from recent winnings at the same casino as mentioned above, mostly just to see what would happen - this time, no questions and no form. Perhaps the trigger for questioning - at least for me - is more like around $50K?
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/
DRich
DRich
Joined: Jul 6, 2012
  • Threads: 80
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October 25th, 2021 at 5:09:20 PM permalink
Quote: MDawg

Quote: MDawg

Quote: AlanMendelson

Several years ago I made a whopper of a cash deposit at a Bank of America here in Vegas after a big win. I was asked for certain information for the CTR.

What troubled me is that the bank DID NOT ask where the cash came from. I wanted them to know that it came from CASINO WINNINGS because i knew i had losses to offset this win on my taxes.

The bank didnt want to hear anything about the casino. What they wanted was my BUSINESS INFO. And ONLY my business info was entered on the CTR.

This worried me, because I was afraid that this large cash deposit would raise red flags about my business and I was not going to include this large cash transaction as business income.

For that year I did report a loss on gambling and there were no repercussions. This happened more than five years ago.

So a question: have any of you actually had a CTR filed after depositing a large cash casino win and did your bank ask you about the casino and record the casino as the source of the cash??
link to original post


Quote: DRich

Quote: Mission146

The assumption that the casino gives one single, solitary, lonesome, isolated **** about where the money comes from is a curious one.

Sure, you probably couldnít walk in and directly tell them itís drug money, stolen money, whateverÖbut itís not like they ask a whole hell of a lot of questions.



If it is over $10k they must report where the money came from. They are resposnible for asking you where it came from. If you say it came from your job, they will ask what you do. If you say lawyer for example they will ask what law firm and the address. They will also run your name through various databases to try and confirm it and make sure that you are not a Politically Exposed Person.
link to original post


Quote: unJon

I occasionally withdraw more than $10k from my bank. Without fail they ask me every time what my occupation is.
link to original post


I pulled $50,000. in cash on a recent win, and took the other $50K in check form, on a $100K+ winning session. I decided to deposit the cash at a different casino, not that I needed it, but just I figured - withdraw from one casino, a CTR must have been issued, deposit at another, the incoming CTR will cancel out any potential questions (if any questions are being asked). At least until I withdraw the cash again, but anyway, I figured, why not.

When I deposited the $50K cash the incoming recipient casino gave me a form to fill out that had some choices as to the source of the cash. I asked them why they wanted this.

"You've never asked for anything like this from me before."

The answer was that I had not deposited large sums of cash with them before - and this is true, generally I just withdraw cash or checks as winnings I don't deposit anything. I am a credit line player.

I didn't read through the form closely because the one option "Winnings from another casino" stood out, so I just checked it and filled in the blank for the name of the casino where I won the $100K+. I even showed the cashier a photo on my phone of the winning check for the other half and said, "See, here is the other half I won, I won even more than $50K there," but cage didn't seem to care.

"That's fine, just fill out the form, that's all we need."

Also the form included some lines for my occupation. I told the cage that they already had all that, they agreed, so I didn't have to fill out that portion. Nor did I have to fill out all the info about my identity, just filled in my name, as they have all that too.

But bottom line being that yes, if you try to deposit a bunch of cash apparently even a known player may be asked to identify its source.
link to original post


I deposited $20K cash from recent winnings at the same casino as mentioned above, mostly just to see what would happen - this time, no questions and no form. Perhaps the trigger for questioning - at least for me - is more like around $50K?
link to original post



If you are already a known customer they wouldn't ask you anything or give you anything. They are supposed to still file a CTR
Order from chaos
MDawg
MDawg
Joined: Sep 27, 2018
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October 25th, 2021 at 8:43:46 PM permalink
I am a very well known customer, but as stated, when I deposited 50K cash recently - form to fill out anyway. When I deposited 20K, same casino, no form. I don't usually withdraw or deposit large sums of cash, generally I withdraw most winnings in checks - I have deviated a bit from "checks only" lately.

I assume that any casino where I have withdrawn or deposited more than $10K / 24 hours has filed a CTR, but as you and I know, that is something done behind the scenes not like they will tell me about it or hand me anything to memorialize it.
I tell you itís wonderful to be here, man. I donít give a damn who wins or loses. Itís just wonderful to be here with you people. https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/gambling/betting-systems/33908-the-adventures-of-mdawg/

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