darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 5th, 2021 at 9:02:33 PM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I never signed an NDA regarding that. If it's okay with darkoz, I'll take any questions on it.



To be clear the NDA simply says I cannot POST A COPY of the actual surveillance tapes onto public media.

I can answer questions and discuss whatever I want. I was physically there!

But I am interested in the Wizards thoughts on what he saw.

Thanks
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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May 5th, 2021 at 11:54:35 PM permalink
It took me years to realize why the casino tries getting witnesses when they already have footage. They get a security manager or some other employee to witness what they already know, so they can leave the surveillance crew out of it and not expose who is working for them. If they just called police or whatnot, the police would need access to the surveillance room and its contents.
I am a robot.
Wizard
Administrator
Wizard 
Joined: Oct 14, 2009
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May 6th, 2021 at 4:34:26 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

To be clear the NDA simply says I cannot POST A COPY of the actual surveillance tapes onto public media.

I can answer questions and discuss whatever I want. I was physically there!

But I am interested in the Wizards thoughts on what he saw.



One thing I'll add, which you know I've said privately, is that given the choice of the backroom or the police getting involved, I would have chosen the police. The police need a crime to arrest you. What happened with the player cards was entirely a civil matter, which the police are not supposed to get involved in. If security then threatens to take you by force to the backroom, then you have a better case for false detainment against them.
It's not whether you win or lose; it's whether or not you had a good bet.
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 6th, 2021 at 6:45:20 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

One thing I'll add, which you know I've said privately, is that given the choice of the backroom or the police getting involved, I would have chosen the police. The police need a crime to arrest you. What happened with the player cards was entirely a civil matter, which the police are not supposed to get involved in. If security then threatens to take you by force to the backroom, then you have a better case for false detainment against them.



Yes I could have called that bluff.

It should be remembered that this was 2014 and the big discussion on this forum and most gambling forums was civil forfeiture, I was just building up a sizable bankroll after being homeless, said bankroll close to ten thousand on my possession at that moment and no way to prove how I earned it (freeplay from player's cards in other people's names would have been a nice explanation to give police.)

And again, the head of security threatening to call the police was a former NYPD detective who even ran my ID through the database looking for warrants.

It seemed more wise at the moment not to get the police involved

EDIT: I should add it seems no matter what I did with the police involvement I am criticized.

"Aha, they called the police. The casino honestly thought you committed a crime or they would not have involved the police. They needed to detain you until officers arrived" would have been the logical argument used against me.

You can't win!
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
100xOdds
100xOdds
Joined: Feb 5, 2012
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May 6th, 2021 at 7:00:57 AM permalink
Quote: Wizard

I was there to held explain to the jury gaming terminology in layman's terms. What player cards were for, how points worked, simple stuff like that.
To be honest, I had a difference in opinion with darkoz's attorney on strategy. I thought she should press aggressively that it was a false detainment case and keep the focus off darkoz. Instead, she had a more defensive strategy that showed darkoz was abiding not just by the law but didn't break any casino rules.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but there wasn't a rule at the time forbidding using other player cards, although one was added because of this.

i would have thought you prove false detainment by showing that he didnt break any rules?
Craps is paradise (Pair of dice). Lets hear it for the SpeedCount Mathletes :)
darkoz
darkoz
Joined: Dec 22, 2009
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May 6th, 2021 at 7:11:48 AM permalink
Quote: 100xOdds

i would have thought you prove false detainment by showing that he didnt break any rules?



No that is incorrect.

False detainment is when you are held and didn't commit any crime.

Breaking a businesses rules is not breaking a law.

For example most business insist you wear shirt and shoes but taking your shoes off in public isn't a crime. You can't be arrested for it.

A business can ask you to leave (and refusal turns into the crime of trespassing)

However if you try to leave and they detain you, search your belongings, etc, just because you didn't have your shoes on and broke their rules, that would be actionable.

My attorney felt that distinction was too much for the jury (as evidenced we are discussing it here) and wanted to show the use of other players cards were not in the printed rules at the time. (They were later added).

Wizard and I both agreed the problem is cards with other people's names has the generic feel of at least breaking some rule. The argument should have been as I described above.

But she was working for no pay so I went with her advice. We don't know if it would have gone different in either case.
For Whom the bus tolls; The bus tolls for thee
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 6th, 2021 at 8:44:03 AM permalink
Lawyers and escorts are two circumstances where you should never try and go cheap.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
onenickelmiracle
onenickelmiracle
Joined: Jan 26, 2012
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May 6th, 2021 at 9:51:16 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Lawyers and escorts are two circumstances where you should never try and go cheap.


Some people just say things to make them look wise. I'd take a cheap lawyer and a cheap escort and make it work.
I am a robot.
billryan
billryan
Joined: Nov 2, 2009
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May 6th, 2021 at 10:01:00 AM permalink
Quote: onenickelmiracle

Some people just say things to make them look wise. I'd take a cheap lawyer and a cheap escort and make it work.



Our jails are full of people with the same sentiment.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
JohnnyQ
JohnnyQ
Joined: Nov 3, 2009
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May 6th, 2021 at 10:17:44 AM permalink
Cheap jails ?
Like the castle in its corner In a medieval game; I foresee terrible trouble And I stay here just the same

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