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lilredrooster
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January 26th, 2020 at 12:20:04 PM permalink
in a helicopter crash - definitely one of the greatest to ever pull up for a jumper
"the black mamba" - affectionate nickname from Laker fans


https://abcnews.go.com/US/dead-helicopter-crash-southern-california/story?id=68545466
the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
billryan
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January 26th, 2020 at 12:24:35 PM permalink
Tragic. Was never a big fan but he crushed my teams far too often.
Rest in peace.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
TDVegas
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January 26th, 2020 at 12:59:38 PM permalink
Thatís a tough loss. 41. Looking forward to NBA Hall of Fame induction. 4 little girls.
Suited89
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:04:00 PM permalink
Just read the TMZ article Kobe's daughter "Gigi" also died. Very tragic.
LeBron just passed him yesterday as #2 all-time scorer.

Suited89
some people need to reimagine their thinking
GWAE
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:05:13 PM permalink
such a shame. Sometimes being rich is a curse. He was taking a helicopter to a travel basketball game instead of ground transportation.
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ApellesPromptov
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:09:18 PM permalink
I'm not a big fan of basketball but heard about the man. Too bad things are like that...
Suited89
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:09:41 PM permalink
Kobe always flew by helicopter dating back to early Laker's days.
some people need to reimagine their thinking
lilredrooster
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:44:49 PM permalink
this was one of the happiest days of his life - he was just signed by the Lakers - he was just 18



the foolish sayings of a rich man often pass for words of wisdom by the fools around him
tringlomane
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:53:28 PM permalink
RIP. :(
TDVegas
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January 26th, 2020 at 1:59:56 PM permalink
Now I saw his daughter died too. Aye. Tragic.

Apparently flying with another parent and his daughter to basketball game. Plus pilot? Or did Kobe fly on his own?

Only saw smoldering crash...but it looks like the copter hit the ground hard.
ThatDonGuy
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January 26th, 2020 at 3:12:33 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Now I saw his daughter died too. Aye. Tragic.

Apparently flying with another parent and his daughter to basketball game. Plus pilot? Or did Kobe fly on his own?


I think "they" reported that it was his helicopter, but it had its own pilot.

New reports say there were nine people on board, including the pilot as well as the baseball coach at Orange Coast College plus his wife and daughter (who was one of Kobe's daughter's basketball teammates).
SOOPOO
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January 26th, 2020 at 3:19:51 PM permalink
Friend flies helicopters for a living. Was with private company in Afghanistan. Then for Niagara Falls tours. Now for medical transports. I've thought about going with him when he did the Niagara Falls tours but never felt they were safe, despite his assurances. In residency, we would go pick up sick babies from other hospitals. I then refused to go if it was by helicopter. Just a few weeks ago two prominent Buffalo businessmen were killed in a helicopter crash.
I am anti helicopter, even if I don't have the exact data.

I play basketball with a kid, around 19, named Kobe. I assume he was named after Bryant, even though Kobe Bryant was pretty young when he was born.

Saddest part is his young daughter was with him. May they RIP.
gamerfreak
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January 26th, 2020 at 3:45:03 PM permalink
I really have no interest in riding a helicopter, they seem really dangerous.

A few years ago the Medivac that takes off from the hospital attached to Cesars AC crashed, killing the pilot.
TDVegas
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January 26th, 2020 at 5:04:58 PM permalink
I used to say that I would never fly in a helicopter because it was 1 engine....no back up. The reality is that even if the engine fails completely, auto gyration should allow any helicopter to land safely. You just need a place to put it down. This crash looked violent....must have been a lot more than just engine failure.

There have been several helicopter tour crashes here in Vegas. Pass for me.
Lovecomps
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January 26th, 2020 at 6:58:45 PM permalink
Quote: GWAE

Sometimes being rich is a curse.



"Money's the world's curse!"

"May the Lord smight me with it...AND MAY I NEVER RECOVER!"

-Tevye, from Fiddler On the Roof.



Seriously, the whole thing brings back memories of Thurman Munson.
The best things in life are not free.
SiegfriedRoy
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January 26th, 2020 at 7:12:28 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

The reality is that even if the engine fails completely, auto gyration should allow any helicopter to land safely. You just need a place to put it down. This crash looked violent...



Auto gyration is not a reliable maneuver due to being highly difficult.
TDVegas
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January 26th, 2020 at 8:03:22 PM permalink
Quote: SiegfriedRoy

Auto gyration is not a reliable maneuver due to being highly difficult.


Well...if that's the case, I'll pass on the helicopter or single engine props. I don't need a lot when I'm up in the air....but one back up system is a must. The pictures showed the wreckage splashed all over the place. Looks like they had no chance. Can't imagine the terror they felt.
onenickelmiracle
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January 26th, 2020 at 8:54:48 PM permalink
I didn't like him after his sex scandal, would like to be super crass about it, but I'll wait until tomorrow when it's time. Hate seeing him licking his lips.
I am a robot.
SiegfriedRoy
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January 26th, 2020 at 9:59:57 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Well...if that's the case, I'll pass on the helicopter or single engine props. I don't need a lot when I'm up in the air....but one back up system is a must. The pictures showed the wreckage splashed all over the place. Looks like they had no chance. Can't imagine the terror they felt.



Iím 100% with you. I pass on choppers and single engines like a plague.
gordonm888
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January 26th, 2020 at 11:53:14 PM permalink
Very sad. Not a Kobe fan, but he was a great athlete. Shocking when someone who has it all dies young. I thought of John Kennedy, Jr.

Never been in a helicopter. It seems as if few people survive a crash landing.
So many better men, a few of them friends, are dead. And a thousand thousand slimy things live on, and so do I.
TDVegas
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January 27th, 2020 at 12:10:28 AM permalink
Quote: SiegfriedRoy

Iím 100% with you. I pass on choppers and single engines like a plague.


Now that I'm reading more...this helicopter apparently was a dual engine model. I'm not sure if both engines needed to be running to fly it or if one failed the copter could still fly safely on one engine.

LAPD is now reporting that their own air units were grounded that morning due to low and no visibility. I'm not sure how the weather factor will play into this but I would assume this copter had top of the line radar and navigation systems to fly safely in just about any weather.

The fact that this copter slammed into the ground tells me more went wrong beyond visibility/weather issues...I have to assume mechanical issues were the main culprit. As far as sports figures dying in air crashes....this one is way up there in terms of outpouring of grief.

Roberto Clemente
Thurman Munson
Marshall University
beachbumbabs
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January 27th, 2020 at 2:18:03 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Now that I'm reading more...this helicopter apparently was a dual engine model. I'm not sure if both engines needed to be running to fly it or if one failed the copter could still fly safely on one engine.

LAPD is now reporting that their own air units were grounded that morning due to low and no visibility. I'm not sure how the weather factor will play into this but I would assume this copter had top of the line radar and navigation systems to fly safely in just about any weather.

The fact that this copter slammed into the ground tells me more went wrong beyond visibility/weather issues...I have to assume mechanical issues were the main culprit. As far as sports figures dying in air crashes....this one is way up there in terms of outpouring of grief.

Roberto Clemente
Thurman Munson
Marshall University



I doubt they had time to be terrified. If that eases anyone's mind.

It looks like they were trying to canyon-run in low visibility with ground fog and the pilot got into instrument meteorological conditions, got disoriented, and thought he was flying straight, but was making a right turn instead, and slammed into the quite steep hillside at full speed.

They probably had less than 5 seconds, likely much less, to realize they were dead. Probably the girls were facing backwards in the cabin and never knew.

But that's all speculation until they do an investigation.

If it was mechanical, they should have been able to manage it with emergency procedures, at least to the point of a survivable crash. They weren't all that high, and they would have been moving slowly enough that they would not have spread a debris field over a quarter acre.

However, it's quite common. Fog is sneaky and deceptive. This is a problem up and down the Pacific shoreline, but happens in Florida a fair amount, too. Pilots think they can edge run under it or around it, and they're suddenly enveloped.

And yeah, that's how JFK jr died, Patsy Cline, several of my friends, many others. They had someplace they needed to be, and it looked ok from the ground.

RIP, Kobe.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
SiegfriedRoy
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January 27th, 2020 at 3:22:22 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Now that I'm reading more...this helicopter apparently was a dual engine model. I'm not sure if both engines needed to be running to fly it or if one failed the copter could still fly safely on one engine.



You can't think of helicopters like a plane. Planes rely on forward thrust movement, so having an engine die on a dual engine have a better chance of emergency landing because the plane itself have it's own lift properties in the wings and the fuselage. However, a helicopter is not aerodynamic and does not have lift properties like a plane except for the blades. Without the blades propelling, it can't stay afloat or glide like a plane. The helicopter relies on both engines to create enough turbine power for the main rotor blades to create lift. With one engine out, the helicopter would most likely not have enough power to climb. The most they could probably do is try to land. I also suspect that it probably was due to weather or misread by the pilot if there was heavy fog. We will have to wait and see the reason for the crash.
Last edited by: SiegfriedRoy on Jan 27, 2020
DRich
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January 27th, 2020 at 7:34:52 AM permalink
I am speculating that it was a suicide mission because Kobe was pissed that Lebron passed his scoring mark the day before. Karl Malone may be next.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
TDVegas
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January 27th, 2020 at 9:53:51 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

I doubt they had time to be terrified. If that eases anyone's mind.

It looks like they were trying to canyon-run in low visibility with ground fog and the pilot got into instrument meteorological conditions, got disoriented, and thought he was flying straight, but was making a right turn instead, and slammed into the quite steep hillside at full speed.

They probably had less than 5 seconds, likely much less, to realize they were dead. Probably the girls were facing backwards in the cabin and never knew.

But that's all speculation until they do an investigation.

If it was mechanical, they should have been able to manage it with emergency procedures, at least to the point of a survivable crash. They weren't all that high, and they would have been moving slowly enough that they would not have spread a debris field over a quarter acre.

However, it's quite common. Fog is sneaky and deceptive. This is a problem up and down the Pacific shoreline, but happens in Florida a fair amount, too. Pilots think they can edge run under it or around it, and they're suddenly enveloped.

And yeah, that's how JFK jr died, Patsy Cline, several of my friends, many others. They had someplace they needed to be, and it looked ok from the ground.

RIP, Kobe.


It's all hindsight...but I have to question the wisdom of going up in the first place. This wasn't a far distance, it was extremely foggy and if a 30 year, experienced LA helicopter pilot, instrumented rated and rated by his peers as one of the best...is crashing full bore into a mountainside...then I don't care who is flying me. It's not safe. The heavy fog was noted by LAPD and they grounded their own craft.
TigerWu
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January 27th, 2020 at 9:58:46 AM permalink
I was gonna do a helicopter ride next time I went to Vegas but now I'm paranoid again.
gamerfreak
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January 27th, 2020 at 10:04:47 AM permalink
Interesting interview with a witness

https://youtu.be/28QYy8lrww8
DRich
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January 27th, 2020 at 11:12:19 AM permalink
Helicopters scare me and I used to have a private plane pilot license.

My boss offered me free use of his helicopter and free fuel if I wanted to get my helicopter license. I passed. Planes I trust, helicopters not so much. Our company hangar is right out back of our corporate office so it would not have been any inconvenience.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
Ayecarumba
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January 27th, 2020 at 12:47:25 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

I am speculating that it was a suicide mission because Kobe was pissed that Lebron passed his scoring mark the day before. Karl Malone may be next.

hehe.... it's still too soon. Wait until after the funeral.
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DRich
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January 27th, 2020 at 12:51:52 PM permalink
Quote: Ayecarumba

hehe.... it's still too soon. Wait until after the funeral.



It is never too soon. I probably wouldn't joke at this point with anyone who's relative passed away yesterday, but assuming no one on this forum was relatedI will always joke about death or anything else.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
IndyJeffrey
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January 27th, 2020 at 5:16:47 PM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

As far as sports figures dying in air crashes....this one is way up there in terms of outpouring of grief.

Roberto Clemente
Thurman Munson
Marshall University



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_involving_sports_teams

I'm surprised Kobe Bryant not yet added to this list.
GWAE
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January 27th, 2020 at 6:12:57 PM permalink
Quote: IndyJeffrey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_involving_sports_teams

I'm surprised Kobe Bryant not yet added to this list.



well since the list is about teams, why would he be on it?
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DRich
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January 27th, 2020 at 6:17:47 PM permalink
Quote: IndyJeffrey

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_accidents_involving_sports_teams

I'm surprised Kobe Bryant not yet added to this list.



He hasn't been a player for four years.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
onenickelmiracle
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January 27th, 2020 at 10:50:27 PM permalink
Quote: TigerWu

I was gonna do a helicopter ride next time I went to Vegas but now I'm paranoid again.


Me too because I made heartless jokes. I won't ride in one until I am cast in a Twilight Zone movie with a helicopter scene and a risk-taking director.
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January 29th, 2020 at 3:39:30 PM permalink
Forum Trivia: 100% of members misappropriating the title of "Great One" have been permanently nuked.

The opinions of this moderator are for entertainment purposes only.
FleaStiff
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January 29th, 2020 at 6:36:31 PM permalink
Often its the strobe lights that cause a helicopter pilot trouble. Its often best if the pilot can have someone else turn them off so he doesn't have to move his head and encounter vertigo.

the lights flash in the fog and suddenly the pilot is uncertain about which way is up. Safer to fly without the lights on at all (illegal of course). vfr is fine, imc is fine (even if not licensed for it) but oh that sudden transition from visual to instruments!
TDVegas
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January 29th, 2020 at 7:31:25 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

Often its the strobe lights that cause a helicopter pilot trouble. Its often best if the pilot can have someone else turn them off so he doesn't have to move his head and encounter vertigo.

the lights flash in the fog and suddenly the pilot is uncertain about which way is up. Safer to fly without the lights on at all (illegal of course). vfr is fine, imc is fine (even if not licensed for it) but oh that sudden transition from visual to instruments!


If they hit the ground at 185 mph (beyond the max speed)....it's probably a safe assumption that this experienced pilot (VFR and instrument rated) lost control in a kind of death spiral.

This becomes a bit scary if a pilot with his qualifications can lose control in this manner. I wonder if there's pressure on these guys to get in the air...considering their passenger, where they might otherwise stay grounded.

These deaths are tough as multiple members of the same family perished.
FleaStiff
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January 30th, 2020 at 4:41:45 AM permalink
>>>>I wonder if there's pressure on these guys to get in the air...
>>>>considering their passenger, where they might otherwise stay grounded.
Usually, no! Its the sudden transition from being able to see which way is down to those strobe induced flashes that create vertigo or at least uncertainty about up and down once you are in fog and convinced that your instruments are lying to you.

Even that Bahamian flight of an alcohol poisoned teenage girl was loss of spatial awareness once they had a loss of ground references.

>>>>These deaths are tough as multiple members of the same family perished.
That is quite common, consider the peachtree bowl crash.
DRich
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January 30th, 2020 at 7:38:31 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

If they hit the ground at 185 mph (beyond the max speed)....it's probably a safe assumption that this experienced pilot (VFR and instrument rated) lost control in a kind of death spiral.

This becomes a bit scary if a pilot with his qualifications can lose control in this manner. I wonder if there's pressure on these guys to get in the air...considering their passenger, where they might otherwise stay grounded.

These deaths are tough as multiple members of the same family perished.



I was talking to our company helicopter pilot and he said that there is definitely additional pressure when you have the rich and celebrities on board. He said he has flown at times when he wouldn't have if it was just him on the helicopter.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
billryan
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January 30th, 2020 at 7:50:23 AM permalink
I was surprised Kobe was such a man of faith. A lifelong Catholic who said his Priest helped him get thru his rape trial. Whatever he may have done as a younger man, he certainly matured into an incredible family man.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
TDVegas
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January 30th, 2020 at 9:37:29 AM permalink
Quote: DRich

I was talking to our company helicopter pilot and he said that there is definitely additional pressure when you have the rich and celebrities on board. He said he has flown at times when he wouldn't have if it was just him on the helicopter.


Deep fog, flying low, mountainous terrain....yeah, Iím passing that day and taking a car.

These poor people are gone....I can only hope in the future ALL pilots and passengers will have a think twice moment.

Even an experienced pilot met his demise under these conditions.
DRich
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January 30th, 2020 at 11:32:39 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas

Deep fog, flying low, mountainous terrain....yeah, Iím passing that day and taking a car.

These poor people are gone....I can only hope in the future ALL pilots and passengers will have a think twice moment.

Even an experienced pilot met his demise under these conditions.



What we don't know is how many times has he flown insimiliar conditions. If he has done it 1000 times and this was the first problem, I would find that risk acceptable for me to fly.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
FleaStiff
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January 30th, 2020 at 11:52:15 AM permalink
look folks, he nearly made it.
Spatial disorientation sucks particularly when there is no terrain avoidance equipment available.
Its not the death of the rich and famous or holy, its the death of the unlucky. Its not an inexperienced pilot, its not a star-pressured pilot, its just what happens when clouds close in and fog shrouded strobes fool the senses.
Great VMC skills and great IMC skills are fine and dandy, but sudden transitioning can ruin your whole day.
SOOPOO
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January 30th, 2020 at 1:12:53 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

I was surprised Kobe was such a man of faith. A lifelong Catholic who said his Priest helped him get thru his rape trial. Whatever he may have done as a younger man, he certainly matured into an incredible family man.



You don't KNOW this, you hope this. You don't think its possible he has a different woman in every city he travels to? You think the woman in Colorado was his first and only extramarital event? Really? For all we know he had an agreement with his wife that as long as he keeps such events private/secret, it's ok. It's also possible he has been 100% faithful since the rape trial. We will never know.
We do know he has been involved in his daughters basketball life in a positive way.
FleaStiff
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January 30th, 2020 at 6:11:19 PM permalink
reporter who mentioned the negative incident still heavily criticized for it.
TDVegas
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January 30th, 2020 at 8:17:50 PM permalink
Quote: FleaStiff

reporter who mentioned the negative incident still heavily criticized for it.


I'm not a fan of piling on with negative stories after the man has died. He was called out on the behavior, charged, dropped and everyone moved on. He's gone. His daughter has died and his family will have to try and pick up the pieces.

I'm also not a fan of going crazy and elevating him like he's the second coming. He was...a hall of fame basketball player and father who was committed to his basketball academy, business and charitable causes in retirement.

7 other equally important lives vanished on that day.
DRich
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January 31st, 2020 at 7:47:55 AM permalink
Quote: TDVegas


7 other equally important lives vanished on that day.



That is incorrect. About 125,000 important lives vanished on that day.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
TDVegas
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