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TomG
TomG
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May 16th, 2019 at 6:34:20 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Any self-defense class teacher will stress that you de-escalate the situation first, fight as a last resort. Normal people do not escalate things. Too many Blacks never learned this lesson.



The normal thing is to meet the level of tension. In a tense and volatile situation, it is normal to be tense and volatile. Being able to de-escalate situations with people feeling trapped and attacked and deadly weapons present requires significant training. And from what I can tell, a lot of police are completely untrained in that area.

When I'm faced with people who have the authority to take away my freedom, my script is "Did I do something wrong? I would like to go home. Do I have the right to remain silent?" The only scenarios I can think of happening is that I'm allowed to go on my way, or I'm arrested. I think that because of how I look and how I carry myself (and not committing crimes), I'm almost certainly not going to be arrested. With this guy, the cop was threatening arrest simply because of how the person looked. Police should be trained that they never take away someones freedom based solely on what a person looks like. Unfortunately it seems that they are trained in the exact opposite way. And no matter how escalated this guy got, this is a perfect example of how truly wrong the entire field of policing can be.
TomG
TomG
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May 16th, 2019 at 6:35:34 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

If you refuse to show ID when there is a legitimate belief the officer has that you are a wanted criminal then you have no legal recourse.



This guy was being threatened with arrest based on a completely illegitimate belief.
darkoz
darkoz
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May 16th, 2019 at 7:26:52 PM permalink
Quote: TomG

This guy was being threatened with arrest based on a completely illegitimate belief.



You would have to prove the officer knowingly believed the person was not the wanted fugitive.

Since the officer had to wait until the 2nd one showed up with the picture, the officer wil claiml and probably did believe he had identified the person based solely on his memory.

His memory may have turned out to be faulty but that is why he summoned the other officer with the picture proof.

How is that illegitimate?
Nathan
Nathan
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May 16th, 2019 at 8:01:21 PM permalink
This "Wrong guy being unlawfully questioned," reminds me of a Good Times Episode where JJ spent time in jail on his 18th birthday because some criminal had robbed a liquor store and poor JJ happened to be RUNNING to see his girlfriend after the Robbery. Near the liquor store. Ouch. Spending your birthday in jail for something you didn't even do.

He also got fired from a job that he had just got because his boss didn't want to have someone who was sitting up in jail working for them. The boss didn't even WAIT to see if JJ was unlawfully arrested and jailed, he just firex him on the spot. What a crummy birthday. Jail time and getting fired on your birthday! Turns out, the REAL robber was this short fat guy whereas JJ was tall and skinny and Florida sarcastically says",I can see why you arrested JJ! JJ and Robber are practically twins!" JJ was released and when told he would have the unlawful arrest and unlawful jail time on his record, he lightheartedly said,"My record is on the top of the charts!"

Even when I was young I remembered feeling anger at the possibility that someone could get unlawfully arrested and jailed and it wouldn't be automatically expunged from their records especially since they found the REAL Criminal!
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TomG
TomG
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beachbumbabs
May 16th, 2019 at 8:01:39 PM permalink
Quote: darkoz

You would have to prove the officer knowingly believed the person was not the wanted fugitive.

Since the officer had to wait until the 2nd one showed up with the picture, the officer wil claiml and probably did believe he had identified the person based solely on his memory.

His memory may have turned out to be faulty but that is why he summoned the other officer with the picture proof.

How is that illegitimate?



There was sufficient evidence readily available and the cop knowingly chose to ignore it before engaging. He instead relied on skin color and hair style as the only evidence when he threatened arrest and put his hands on him. It may be legitimate within the field of policing to do that. That just shows how illegitimate some of the things in that field are.
rxwine
rxwine
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May 17th, 2019 at 12:08:46 AM permalink
Another perspective -- rights activist tell you to staunchly defend your rights, because letting cops or any authority step all over them is the path to constant abuse.

Stand up for your rights, or lose them. Don't just go along to get along.
Quasimodo? Does that name ring a bell?
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 17th, 2019 at 3:21:23 AM permalink
Quote: TomG

The normal thing is to meet the level of tension. In a tense and volatile situation, it is normal to be tense and volatile. Being able to de-escalate situations with people feeling trapped and attacked and deadly weapons present requires significant training. And from what I can tell, a lot of police are completely untrained in that area.



Police might be, but I am talking more about the other guy. We do not see what happened before the camera rolled. How the cop approached and started the conversation. The guy is clearly angry and screaming and the cop more quiet. Think how often this is the case. The perp or someone around the perp escalates things. I've been around it. Authority figure ready to walk away, then someone wises off. Authority figure just wants to check something out, other figure wants to make a SCOTUS case out of it.

Quote:

When I'm faced with people who have the authority to take away my freedom, my script is "Did I do something wrong? I would like to go home. Do I have the right to remain silent?" The only scenarios I can think of happening is that I'm allowed to go on my way, or I'm arrested. I think that because of how I look and how I carry myself (and not committing crimes), I'm almost certainly not going to be arrested. With this guy, the cop was threatening arrest simply because of how the person looked. Police should be trained that they never take away someones freedom based solely on what a person looks like. Unfortunately it seems that they are trained in the exact opposite way. And no matter how escalated this guy got, this is a perfect example of how truly wrong the entire field of policing can be.



I will hold my judgment as I did not see how it all began. This cop was more than minimally trained as he had to be at least a corporal since he showed the guy his chevrons. It is unlikely the cop just walked up and threatened arrest. My thought is the cop came up to the guy and asked a question or two and the guy started to get out of hand. Same as that guy in MA that caused the "Beer Summit." That one was more cut and dried. The cops were investigating a break-in attempt and the actual guy was breaking into his own home with a lost key. Instead of thanking the cops he started wising off. This guy yeah, he was more minding his own business.

It is why the cops are getting those body-cams. We will never know how it started. Everything I have heard is complaints of "racism" by cops plummet when they start wearing body-cams.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
darkoz
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AZDuffman
May 17th, 2019 at 3:44:59 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Police might be, but I am talking more about the other guy. We do not see what happened before the camera rolled. How the cop approached and started the conversation. The guy is clearly angry and screaming and the cop more quiet. Think how often this is the case. The perp or someone around the perp escalates things. I've been around it. Authority figure ready to walk away, then someone wises off. Authority figure just wants to check something out, other figure wants to make a SCOTUS case out of it.



I will hold my judgment as I did not see how it all began. This cop was more than minimally trained as he had to be at least a corporal since he showed the guy his chevrons. It is unlikely the cop just walked up and threatened arrest. My thought is the cop came up to the guy and asked a question or two and the guy started to get out of hand. Same as that guy in MA that caused the "Beer Summit." That one was more cut and dried. The cops were investigating a break-in attempt and the actual guy was breaking into his own home with a lost key. Instead of thanking the cops he started wising off. This guy yeah, he was more minding his own business.

It is why the cops are getting those body-cams. We will never know how it started. Everything I have heard is complaints of "racism" by cops plummet when they start wearing body-cams.



Call me a liberal but I am in agreement with AZ in this case.

I call it like I see it.

Or as AZ points out cannot see it. We cant see what happened prior to the rolling of the video, the officer is very calm and is corporal so has training.

This whole thing just reeks of a simple thing being blown out by the black guy and his wife.

I noticed the wife even begs the cop to please leave him alone BUT never once says to her husband to calm down. Thats a situation where you want to be giving advice to your loved one, not egging him on by berating the officer
AZDuffman
AZDuffman
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May 17th, 2019 at 4:45:32 AM permalink
Quote: darkoz

Call me a liberal but I am in agreement with AZ in this case.



The world may end today! Oh well, we had a good run. *%&# the lawn.

EDIT: I have had this happen to me. Fired Black guys for total bad performance on two occasions. On one the guy was smart enough not to go crazy crazy, had a wife and kids at home and knew he was going to lose. On another the guy went from subtle to ballistic (I knew he would as he had a serious rage problem, clinical) and we went from explaining he was fired in a normal meeting to having to call the cops in a few seconds. Guy told the cops I was "slipping something into his coffee" among other crazy charges. We could have been on "COPS" if they were filming.

For this reason, I ALWAYS want to know what happened before.
Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing
darkoz
darkoz
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RS
May 17th, 2019 at 4:59:59 AM permalink
Lets take casinos.

Is it a violation of my civil rights to be surrounded by security for legal AP and forced into a backroom?

Hell yeah.

Is there anyone on here who believes it wise to start cursing and be belligerent in that scenario?

The smart thing is keep the situation from escalating and if your rights are violated sue in court.

I have no problem with the taping of the incident but no one who doesnt want to risk a beatdown would act that way in a casino with security.

Why the hell would you risk it with an armed police officer?

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