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RogerKint
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July 11th, 2018 at 3:48:30 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Because they can?

Men are visual people. It's supposedly 85% of their interest in women, what she looks like, though there are huge differences in what they find attractive.

They (most men) also are able to impregnate women all their lives, while female fertility declines precipitously after about age 35. So hormones are another factor, and the instinctual imperative to reproduce.

My issue is with that quote is not that youth in women is an attractor. It absolutely is, pre-programmed, biological. The second sentence, though. It's devaluing her as anything beyond a sperm receptacle that's so rude and drew my response. I mean, really. Object would be a step up. Companion, friend, partner completely out of the question.

Some people are perfectly happy with brainless boobs of either sex, prefer it that way. Not my cup of tea, I'm with Mission above in liking the whole package. Hell, I know people who are married who don't even speak the same language, and have been together for many years.

But claiming that kind of relationship as (paraphrasing) FACTUALLY SUPERIOR TO A woman with a brain or education is just garbage. Like the Taliban shooting Malala in the head for daring to go to school.

Own it, both DRich and RogerKint, if that's what you think, because that's what the Taliban thinks.

I can tell you two, if you think you're agreeing with EvenBob on this, I know FOR A FACT and thousands of posts, he likes women who are smart and educated. His criticism of the Uber driver is that she was NOT bright enough to make her point in a few words. The part we disagree on is generalizing that to include ALL women.



So now I agree with drich just because I disagreed with your comparing him to the f***in taliban? Is you srs rn?

Don't prove evenbob right by letting emotion get the best of you. Your comments could be easily taken as personal insults.
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Mission146
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July 11th, 2018 at 3:52:42 PM permalink
I don't think Babs thinks anyone is a Muslim extremist.

Just for the record, I know I don't think anyone is a Muslim extremist.

My point was simply that I want a woman who is a life partner in all aspects. When it comes to just satisfaction of my genitals, while my hand may not be the most ideal, it has always performed adequately enough. And, it comes with no baggage of any kind.

(Both men and women come with baggage, I would say)
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
RogerKint
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July 11th, 2018 at 3:54:59 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I don't think Babs thinks anyone is a Muslim extremist.

Just for the record, I know I don't think anyone is a Muslim extremist.

My point was simply that I want a woman who is a life partner in all aspects. When it comes to just satisfaction of my genitals, while my hand may not be the most ideal, it has always performed adequately enough. And, it comes with no baggage of any kind.

(Both men and women come with baggage, I would say)



Are you really gonna Mansplain what Babs meant? Typical white male ;)
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dogqck
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July 11th, 2018 at 3:56:32 PM permalink
It's strange how much easier it is for a man to understand a woman, when he is not married to her.
EvenBob
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July 11th, 2018 at 4:09:43 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


My point was simply that I want a woman who is a life partner in all aspects.)



I really like Tina Fey. She's smart, and funny,
and beautiful. She's really really bright.
I saw her on Letterman on his Nflix show.
She was very good, I was enjoying listening
to her. Towards the end she told a story
about When Trump hosted SNL.

They were doing a Miss Universe skit and
Fey was dressed in an evening gown. Trump
said to her: "You look great. You should dress
like that more often."

The look on her face was like Trump was the
biggest pig she ever met. Letterman laughed,
he didn't think it was that big a deal. You can
tell Fey didn't like Letterman's reaction.

I mean c'mon, she acted like Trump had commented
on her ass or something. It tells me that as
smart as she is, we would get along for about
10 minutes. I felt majorly sorry for her husband.
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
EvenBob
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July 11th, 2018 at 4:17:57 PM permalink
Quote: dogqck

It's strange how much easier it is for a man to understand a woman, when he is not married to her.



Too close, it's hard to see clearly. There are
often so many games going on that you
can't keep up with them.

My sister is the biggest game playing woman
I ever saw. She was incapable of being direct,
she had to game everything. Drove me nuts as
a kid, as a result I haven't seen her in 40 years.
Even on the phone she drives me up the wall.
I want to scream "Just say what you want!".
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
Mission146
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July 11th, 2018 at 4:36:28 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I really like Tina Fey. She's smart, and funny,
and beautiful. She's really really bright.
I saw her on Letterman on his Nflix show.
She was very good, I was enjoying listening
to her. Towards the end she told a story
about When Trump hosted SNL.

They were doing a Miss Universe skit and
Fey was dressed in an evening gown. Trump
said to her: "You look great. You should dress
like that more often."

The look on her face was like Trump was the
biggest pig she ever met. Letterman laughed,
he didn't think it was that big a deal. You can
tell Fey didn't like Letterman's reaction.

I mean c'mon, she acted like Trump had commented
on her ass or something. It tells me that as
smart as she is, we would get along for about
10 minutes. I felt majorly sorry for her husband.



Maybe she's an over-exaggerator. Hating Trump is a really popular thing right now. My fiance' not only, "Looks great," in some things as opposed to other things, she also doesn't mind being told so. Prefers it, actually. And, she's a liberal politically.

I mean, when she tosses on that corset that throws her rather ample breasts up in the air, she expects me to prefer that to her in her pajamas. Maybe not all women are the same. Women can feel however they want to feel, in that regard, and I'll just be with the woman who feels the right way for me in that situation.

Maybe there are guys who think that modes of attire that accentuate curves and bust are not going to make women more physically attractive. Cool, those guys can get with Tina Fey, not my problem.

(For the record, Tiny Fey could wear a potato sack and still be drop dead ******* hot.)
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
RS
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July 11th, 2018 at 5:42:29 PM permalink
Generalizations are fine. I mean, if they're accurate, what's the problem? Why is it okay to make generalizations in some subjects but it's supposedly taboo to make them about others? A generalization is just that -- a generalization. It's not to say EVERY man is this way or EVERY woman is that way. But....ya know, in general, women are this way or men are that way.

To think generalizations aren't true or shouldn't exist is to think men and women are the same in every possible way, which is simply and obviously false but also absurd.

It's okay to say men are more "visual" when it comes to determining attractiveness of a partner....but it's not okay to say women tend to ramble on and on going off on tangents? Both are generalizations, but we all damn know both are true.
DRich
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July 11th, 2018 at 5:52:35 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Well, that certainly changes who I thought you were.

What a lousy quote.

Goes right up there with how the Taliban thinks. Sharia law. And "Keep em stupid, barefoot, and pregnant."

Always found it pretty ironic that the same clods who keep em barefoot and pregnant are the ones fussing about " ragheads" and "camel jockeys" trying to impose Sharia law in this country.

Guess they can't stand the competition.



Hey now, I didn't say that I agree with the quote. I just like it because it offends my wife every time I mention it. Besides, I married a true book nerd girl.
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EvenBob
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July 11th, 2018 at 5:52:56 PM permalink
Quote: RS

...but it's not okay to say women tend to ramble on and on going off on tangents? Both are generalizations, but we all damn know both are true.



What's funny is, to get a woman
that is driven nuts by other women,
like men are. I've had several women
tell me, so it must be true, that when
they go on and on about something they
do NOT want my opinion on it. Just
shut up and listen.

Men are the opposite. I'm not going
to tell a story unless I want your opinion.
Why would I waste my time. Men are
like, if you don't want my opinion, why
are you telling me all this.

I get along with my wife because we seldom
talk, we email. She gets right to the point
because she hates typing. lol
"It's not called gambling if the math is on your side."
RogerKint
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July 11th, 2018 at 5:56:34 PM permalink
Quote: DRich

Hey now, I didn't say that I agree with the quote. I just like it because it offends my wife every time I mention it.



Nice try, Bin Laden
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mcallister3200
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July 11th, 2018 at 6:04:55 PM permalink
Inb4 ams says you straight guys sound miserable.
AZDuffman
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July 11th, 2018 at 6:30:15 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146


Honestly, you're the one bemoaning the downfall and ripping of the fabric of society, so I tend to get the impression that you might be miserable.



No idea if I am or not. I just call it like I see it, the USA is a society in decline since about 1964 and collapse since about 2010. It happens to all societies. I am just cracking a beer and watching, glad I was born early enough to remember before the mid-1980s.

Quote:

Who says women who are raising kids are useless?



Feminists. They detest such women. Remember Hillary and her remark about baking cookies?

Quote:

No, I'm saying that when a child has something slammed into his/her head during the formative years, that child is going to tend to believe that well into adulthood.



Which the gay movement has used to their advantage since the 1990s. Why do you think they fought for the education requirements I pointed out?
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AZDuffman
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July 11th, 2018 at 6:36:46 PM permalink
Quote: EvenBob

I really like Tina Fey. She's smart, and funny,
and beautiful. She's really really bright.
I saw her on Letterman on his Nflix show.
She was very good, I was enjoying listening
to her. Towards the end she told a story
about When Trump hosted SNL.

They were doing a Miss Universe skit and
Fey was dressed in an evening gown. Trump
said to her: "You look great. You should dress
like that more often."

The look on her face was like Trump was the
biggest pig she ever met. Letterman laughed,
he didn't think it was that big a deal. You can
tell Fey didn't like Letterman's reaction.

I mean c'mon, she acted like Trump had commented
on her ass or something. It tells me that as
smart as she is, we would get along for about
10 minutes. I felt majorly sorry for her husband.



In a few years, when she does not look so good, she will be upset that she is not being paid attention to.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
petroglyph
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July 11th, 2018 at 6:46:14 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

... My fiance' not only, "Looks great,"

You are engaged,,,, again? They say the third time is the charm.

"Statistics show that in the U.S., 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce. Second marriages have difficulty for a number of reasons. First, once a person discovers that he or she can manage a divorce, they are less scared of going through the process again.Jan 9, 2017
Why Do Second Marriages Fail? - Wevorce"
rxwine
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July 11th, 2018 at 6:59:50 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


Feminists. They detest such women. Remember Hillary and her remark about baking cookies?



Hillary was mocking what anti-feminist critics of working women said women should be doing instead, not mocking women with children.
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beachbumbabs
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July 11th, 2018 at 7:01:44 PM permalink
Quote: RogerKint

So now I agree with drich just because I disagreed with your comparing him to the f***in taliban? Is you srs rn?

Don't prove evenbob right by letting emotion get the best of you. Your comments could be easily taken as personal insults.



Roger.

I said if. IF that's what you think, because that's what the Taliban thinks. And they do, to the point of murdering women under their purview who defy it. Many many more than Malala. Burned alive. Beheaded. Stoned. Shot. Just for learning, thinking, being humans.

The idea is to point out to you what becomes of that mindset. NOT to call either of you Taliban.

You won't believe me at this point, I'm sure, but I'm not the Thought Police, either. I'm telling you that's what the quote is saying, hoping you see the similarity, maybe even agree. Or not. Free country, including disagreeing about this.

I read what DRich said about it, after your post I'm answering. He knows it's provocative. I'm glad and a bit relieved he meant it as a harsh joke, rather than being serious . It was unlike him, in my short experience knowing him.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
rxwine
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July 11th, 2018 at 7:02:13 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

"Statistics show that in the U.S., 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce.



Makes sense as by the third marriage one of them dies before they can get divorced.

edit
Oh wait, guess not.
There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
beachbumbabs
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July 11th, 2018 at 7:03:57 PM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Hillary was mocking what anti-feminist critics of working women said women should be doing instead, not mocking women with children.



The infancy of spin, courtesy of Lee Atwater and Roger Ailes. Sadly that baby has grown up to be Godzilla.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
dogqck
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July 11th, 2018 at 8:41:18 PM permalink
Spin, oh I see Sorta when Hillary said Monica was a "narcissistic loony toon".
Mission146
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July 11th, 2018 at 10:20:09 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman


Feminists. They detest such women. Remember Hillary and her remark about baking cookies?



I might not know what qualities make someone good at being a feminist, so I could be off-base here, but I would think part of it would be respecting a woman’s ability and right to choose any life she wants for herself.

Quote:


Which the gay movement has used to their advantage since the 1990s. Why do you think they fought for the education requirements I pointed out?



Probably to offset the exact opposite thing that the religious movement has used to its advantage since...well...longer ago than 1990, that’s for sure.

But, again, I wouldn’t presume to tell the churchies what they can and can’t do in their own houses of worship provided they aren’t breaking any laws.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Mission146
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July 11th, 2018 at 10:23:00 PM permalink
Quote: petroglyph

You are engaged,,,, again? They say the third time is the charm.

"Statistics show that in the U.S., 50% percent of first marriages, 67% of second, and 74% of third marriages end in divorce. Second marriages have difficulty for a number of reasons. First, once a person discovers that he or she can manage a divorce, they are less scared of going through the process again.Jan 9, 2017
Why Do Second Marriages Fail? - Wevorce"



Um...thanks? If I get married a second time and end up divorced, who cares? As your study seems to point out, the thought of becoming divorced doesn’t particularly alarm me. Didn’t alarm me the first time I did it, if I’m being honest.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 3:30:51 AM permalink
Quote: rxwine

Hillary was mocking what anti-feminist critics of working women said women should be doing instead, not mocking women with children.



Not the way I heard it. Feminists hate the idea of a woman wanting to take a traditional role. A major reason the love abortion.
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AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 3:37:38 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I might not know what qualities make someone good at being a feminist, so I could be off-base here, but I would think part of it would be respecting a woman’s ability and right to choose any life she wants for herself.



You are off base, and a few waves behind in feminism. Modern feminists think a woman is "wasting" herself if she wants to be a mother. They think if a woman is not out in the workforce then something is wrong. It is causing many women to end up very unhappy and have regrets. Notice how many woman now are hitting 40 and dropping tens of thousands on fertility to have a kid she biologically should have had in her 20s. But having a kid at that age might affect her career, so can't do that!

You are viewing feminism more as it was in the 1950s, not what it is today. Today they are kind of getting near clinical insanity.

Quote:

Probably to offset the exact opposite thing that the religious movement has used to its advantage since...well...longer ago than 1990, that’s for sure.

But, again, I wouldn’t presume to tell the churchies what they can and can’t do in their own houses of worship provided they aren’t breaking any laws.



What on earth are you talking about a "religious movement?" Churches have been around for 3,000 years or more. Comparing religion to homosexuality is just weird.
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2018 at 6:19:16 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

You are off base, and a few waves behind in feminism. Modern feminists think a woman is "wasting" herself if she wants to be a mother. They think if a woman is not out in the workforce then something is wrong.



I’m not saying that’s correct in general, but I do accept a non-zero number of feminists seem to feel that way. I don’t think over half of them do.

Anyway, I’m starting to think Social Libertarian is kind of my default stance more than anything else. That said, I think men and women alike should respect the right of every woman to do whatever will make her happiest.

Quote:

It is causing many women to end up very unhappy and have regrets. Notice how many woman now are hitting 40 and dropping tens of thousands on fertility to have a kid she biologically should have had in her 20s. But having a kid at that age might affect her career, so can't do that!



If she can afford those fertility treatments, she’s arguably in better financial condition to raise a child than she would have been in her 20’s. Imagine if she’d done that: Dropped out of college, married, divorced, ended up in the social safety net...many Conservatives would not have liked her one little bit had that happened.

I’m not saying all Conservatives, but certainly many of the more extreme Religious ones. It seems that there is a very narrow range of things a woman can do with her life, and range of results (which aren’t totally in her control) that will result in certain Conservatives believing she lived a proper life.

Kind of makes it not hard at all to wonder why the majority of women align with Democrats and other leftists.

Quote:

You are viewing feminism more as it was in the 1950s, not what it is today. Today they are kind of getting near clinical insanity.



As with anything else, I believe there is a small subset who want to take it too far. I know someone mentioned it in jest earlier, but the occasional accusations of, “Mansplaining,” are one example. I wonder how certain feminists would like it if I accused them of, “Womansplaining,” stuff. I imagine they would not be amused.


Quote:

What on earth are you talking about a "religious movement?" Churches have been around for 3,000 years or more. Comparing religion to homosexuality is just weird.



The hellfire and brimstone brigade. Again, I don’t think we have any right to control what people are taught in church, as long as it’s fully within the law. I’ll also reiterate that there are probably a few things we should not force the child of a religious person to be taught in school if there are religious objections.

That said, I don’t think any homosexuals have threatened small children with eternal damnation and suffering for NOT being gay. Meantime, that’s exactly what some religions threaten you with if you are gay. Hell, they even try to police your thoughts to the best of their ability.

Meantime, I think homosexuals just want awareness and tolerance. I don’t think they’re undertaking some massive social reconditioning plan to turn people gay.

So, I wouldn’t compare the education programs you referenced to religion. That’d be an insult to the education programs.

But, like I said, it doesn’t matter. The minority of intolerant extremist religious people, while still sizable, is losing. Pretty soon they will have lost, couple decades, at most.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 7:17:40 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I’m not saying that’s correct in general, but I do accept a non-zero number of feminists seem to feel that way. I don’t think over half of them do.



It is impossible and silly to try to measure the exact percentage. I am going by the ones who join the feminist groups on campus and elsewhere. Modern feminism is really about hating men and being angry at the world.


Quote:

If she can afford those fertility treatments, she’s arguably in better financial condition to raise a child than she would have been in her 20’s. Imagine if she’d done that: Dropped out of college, married, divorced, ended up in the social safety net...many Conservatives would not have liked her one little bit had that happened.



She would be in better shape if she married and stayed together. We have had the argument of lionizing single moms before so no need to rehash. Point is that when you fight biology you usually lose. Women are meant to have kids in their 20s to very early 30s. That is the most healthy time.

Quote:

I’m not saying all Conservatives, but certainly many of the more extreme Religious ones. It seems that there is a very narrow range of things a woman can do with her life, and range of results (which aren’t totally in her control) that will result in certain Conservatives believing she lived a proper life.

Kind of makes it not hard at all to wonder why the majority of women align with Democrats and other leftists



There is a narrow range of what most of us can do. The problem is women get fed this "YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL!" line, and swallow it hook, line, sinker. They can't. You want a power-job, you cannot be a real mother as you will be parking your kid in daycare. When you have kids you do not get to go to all the fancy shows and places. Life is tradeoffs. They align with Democrats because they have swallowed the line, and Democrats say how "you don't need a husband, you have us!"

Also, being a conservative means you have to say "NO" to people and things more often. Many women cannot stomach that.


Quote:

I wonder how certain feminists would like it if I accused them of, “Womansplaining,” stuff. I imagine they would not be amused.



Women who "woansplain" don't keep quiet long enough to hear your complaint.


Quote:

That said, I don’t think any homosexuals have threatened small children with eternal damnation and suffering for NOT being gay. Meantime, that’s exactly what some religions threaten you with if you are gay. Hell, they even try to police your thoughts to the best of their ability.



Then if you want to be gay, don't go to that church. I am saying quit shoving gay education down the throats of kids way too young to get it. We are breeding a sexually confused generation who will end up needing years of therapy and have many other problems.

Quote:

Meantime, I think homosexuals just want awareness and tolerance. I don’t think they’re undertaking some massive social reconditioning plan to turn people gay.



No, they do not want tolerance. They demand acceptance and unconditional support. Don't think they do not try to turn out folks, they try to do it with teens all the time. It has been brought up here. And we used to even have PSAs showing boys to be careful. Probably still common for gay males to be cruising the Greyhound station looking for runaway boys. Same as pimps look for young girls.
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2018 at 8:48:02 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

It is impossible and silly to try to measure the exact percentage. I am going by the ones who join the feminist groups on campus and elsewhere. Modern feminism is really about hating men and being angry at the world.



If I were going to judge everyone based on the most vocal and extreme member(s) of their group, then I would probably harbor the opinion that every Conservative is a misogynistic, sexist and racist fundamentally intolerant Religious extremist gun nut with a limited education. Basically, a non college educated Fred Phelps.

Fortunately, I tend not to take a small subset of a group and use that to make judgments about every single person who falls within that group. I mean, religious people are guilty until proven innocent as far as I'm concerned, but I'm inclined to give a religious person a fair opportunity to prove himself/herself to be an unhypocritical decent person.

It doesn't take much prodding into political philosophies to see whether or not a religious person is a fan of 1 John 3:17, or not, which is what Christianity should really be about more than anything.

Hate social welfare? Okay, then that person is not a fan of 1 John 3:17. Want children separated from parents at the border? (Actually, White Evangelical Christians were the only subset to poll in favor of that treatment in the majority big freaking surprise there.) Okay, then that person is not a fan of 1 John 3:17. Don't want people to come into this country seeking a better life? Okay, then that person is not a fan of 1 John 3:17.

In my experience, many of the Atheists I've met in my life would make better Christians than many of the Christians, except for the whole not believing in God thing.

Quote:

She would be in better shape if she married and stayed together. We have had the argument of lionizing single moms before so no need to rehash. Point is that when you fight biology you usually lose. Women are meant to have kids in their 20s to very early 30s. That is the most healthy time.



Does she have sole control over whether or not the two of them stay together? You make it sound like every woman can control whether or not her husband divorces her. Is it your opinion that if the husband divorces her she must not have been a doting enough wife? Is it your opinion that it's because she wasn't a good enough mother? Is it your opinion that it's because she wasn't sexy enough? Needed to hit that exercise bike more?

I'm not accusing you of having those opinions, I'm just asking you if the woman is always at fault, in your view, for the divorce of a heterosexual couple.

Quote:

There is a narrow range of what most of us can do. The problem is women get fed this "YOU CAN HAVE IT ALL!" line, and swallow it hook, line, sinker. They can't. You want a power-job, you cannot be a real mother as you will be parking your kid in daycare. When you have kids you do not get to go to all the fancy shows and places. Life is tradeoffs. They align with Democrats because they have swallowed the line, and Democrats say how "you don't need a husband, you have us!"



1.) Let's try this:

You want a power-job, you cannot be a real father as you will be parking your kid in daycare. When you have kids you do not get to go to all the fancy shows and places. Life is tradeoffs.

2.) The guys align with Republicans because they are proponents of the line, "Women don't need freedom, they have their husbands to take care of them."

Also, what's wrong with daycare? Is daycare a fundamentally evil thing? You know that there are some daycares that are church-run, right? Those daycares will instill those good Christian values. Actually, some of those daycares stem from Christian sects that generally don't believe it is inappropriate for a woman to want a career. Isn't that neat?

Quote:


Also, being a conservative means you have to say "NO" to people and things more often. Many women cannot stomach that.



Um...what? Wait a minute, I thought you were saying Liberals tended to be more restrictive and intolerant, which is it? What side is more restrictive and intolerant? The side that says yes more often or the side that says no more often?

Hey, man, you said it...not me.

Quote:

Women who "woansplain" don't keep quiet long enough to hear your complaint.



I don't know what mansplaining or womansplaining actually is. I think it's a stupid word.

Quote:

Then if you want to be gay, don't go to that church. I am saying quit shoving gay education down the throats of kids way too young to get it. We are breeding a sexually confused generation who will end up needing years of therapy and have many other problems.



I'm not shoving gay education down anyone's throat, nor do I think the majority of Liberals are. I think most of us don't really care who is gay or who is straight.

Quote:

No, they do not want tolerance. They demand acceptance and unconditional support. Don't think they do not try to turn out folks, they try to do it with teens all the time. It has been brought up here. And we used to even have PSAs showing boys to be careful. Probably still common for gay males to be cruising the Greyhound station looking for runaway boys. Same as pimps look for young girls.



Okay, so you're essentially saying that you think, "Gay males," can generally assumed to be the equivalent of John Wayne Gacy, but at the same time, you don't think that gay males would be happy with tolerance?

Also, I take acceptance and tolerance to be essentially the same thing in this context, so if you want there to be a distinction for the purposes of this conversation, I'm going to need to know what that distinction is.

Anyway, some of your stated opinions rank right up there with the most intolerant statements I've ever read. If I were reading those opinions from someone I had never met, my conclusion would be that the person, as with religious extremists, has absolutely no degree of tolerance for people whose morals might not agree with their own. Further, I would believe that the person is wholly incapable of accepting that what he or she considers a, "Right and moral life," may not apply to everyone. I would assume that the person has nothing but a barely concealed disdain, if not an outright disdain, for well over 25% of all the people that the person meets, just based on appearance (and assumptions made as a result of appearance) alone.

Fortunately, I've met you in person and I think you're a nice guy. While these may be your true opinions, I don't think it's in your personal capacity to treat someone you disagree with in an outright contemptuous manner when dealing with them in person.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 9:57:04 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146


Does she have sole control over whether or not the two of them stay together? You make it sound like every woman can control whether or not her husband divorces her. Is it your opinion that if the husband divorces her she must not have been a doting enough wife? Is it your opinion that it's because she wasn't a good enough mother? Is it your opinion that it's because she wasn't sexy enough? Needed to hit that exercise bike more?



Something like 80% of divorces are initiated by the woman. Nuff said.


Quote:

You want a power-job, you cannot be a real father as you will be parking your kid in daycare. When you have kids you do not get to go to all the fancy shows and places. Life is tradeoffs.



Very correct. You have the power-job you will end up missing the baseball games and recitals. You don't get to have the fancy toys, either. Yes, life is trade-offs. And women have it better here as see what happens if a guy takes a few years off to raise the kids then goes back to looking for work. He will be shunned.


Quote:

Also, what's wrong with daycare? Is daycare a fundamentally evil thing? You know that there are some daycares that are church-run, right? Those daycares will instill those good Christian values. Actually, some of those daycares stem from Christian sects that generally don't believe it is inappropriate for a woman to want a career. Isn't that neat?



What is wrong is if you want to raise a kid you should raise a kid, not warehouse them.

Quote:

Also, I take acceptance and tolerance to be essentially the same thing in this context, so if you want there to be a distinction for the purposes of this conversation, I'm going to need to know what that distinction is.



Tolerance means you allow something. Acceptance means you think it is a good idea and support it.

Quote:

Anyway, some of your stated opinions rank right up there with the most intolerant statements I've ever read.



As far as "tolerance" goes, read the sig below. It says it all.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
Mission146
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July 12th, 2018 at 10:36:12 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Something like 80% of divorces are initiated by the woman. Nuff said.



Gee, I wonder if there's a reason for that given the average Philosophy of Conservative males? (That's assuming your 80% number is true, of course.)

Quote:

Very correct. You have the power-job you will end up missing the baseball games and recitals. You don't get to have the fancy toys, either. Yes, life is trade-offs. And women have it better here as see what happens if a guy takes a few years off to raise the kids then goes back to looking for work. He will be shunned.



Well, thanks for basically agreeing on that point. I can see that you are debating with some level of objectivity, so it will be easy for us to continue this.

I didn't take a few years or anytime at all off for work, but any guy who wanted to shun me if I had can **** himself. Any guy who doesn't think I should be PTO President can, **** himself. Any woman who doesn't think I should be PTO President can **** herself.

Point is, I don't care what anyone thinks because I make the choices I think are right for me. One of those choices is putting time with the kids above everything else and teaching them charity and compassion. If I'm wrong, so be it, the nice thing about being an Atheist is I don't think I'll have to deal with any consequences of anything after I'm dead.

(Atheist-leaning Agnostic, strictly speaking, I don't presume to know.)

Quote:


What is wrong is if you want to raise a kid you should raise a kid, not warehouse them.



I almost missed this! Is school, "Warehousing," them then? Ideally, these are trained professionals in the realm of handling kids.

And, no offense or personal insult intended because it's just a fact, but raising little kids isn't easy. I actually know a little something about it.

Quote:


Tolerance means you allow something. Acceptance means you think it is a good idea and support it.



Thanks, I accept those definitions. Are you tolerant of married gay couples, or not? If not, why not? It's clear you don't, "Accept," them, by your definition, and I have no problem with that by your definition.

Quote:

As far as "tolerance" goes, read the sig below. It says it all.



"Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing," it says.

That's brilliant. People who are tolerant, "Believe in nothing," according to that quote...despite the fact that such people very clearly believe in tolerance itself.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
beachbumbabs
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July 12th, 2018 at 10:42:06 AM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Not the way I heard it. Feminists hate the idea of a woman wanting to take a traditional role. A major reason the love abortion.



Then you heard it wrong. Feminism is primarily about having the choice of being traditional OR having a career, OR doing both, OR neither. There's plenty of room for all. All have pros and cons.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
RonC
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:00:11 AM permalink
I guess the major story of the day on Judge Kavanaugh is that he ran up some debt and paid it off.

He isn't rich compared to lawyers who work in higher paying private sector jobs after, or between, government jobs.

I don't think this will be more than a blip on the screen, and I am pretty sure the Post and their friends will continue digging for the next juicier thing that they can try to turn into something to report...
billryan
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:09:10 AM permalink
It is a strange story. By no means a disqualifying one, but eyebrow raising worthy.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:15:10 AM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Then you heard it wrong. Feminism is primarily about having the choice of being traditional OR having a career, OR doing both, OR neither. There's plenty of room for all. All have pros and cons.



This might have been true of one of the previous waves of feminism, but not today. Just look at how feminists treated Sarah Palin vs. Hillary Clinton. Or how they treated Paula Jones vs. Stormy Daniels.

Feminists pick and choose what kind of women they support. As long as it is a liberal woman who loves abortion, they will get feminist's support.
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AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:25:33 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

Gee, I wonder if there's a reason for that given the average Philosophy of Conservative males? (That's assuming your 80% number is true, of course.)



What do conservative males have to do with it?


Quote:

I didn't take a few years or anytime at all off for work, but any guy who wanted to shun me if I had can **** himself. Any guy who doesn't think I should be PTO President can, **** himself. Any woman who doesn't think I should be PTO President can **** herself.

Point is, I don't care what anyone thinks because I make the choices I think are right for me. One of those choices is putting time with the kids above everything else and teaching them charity and compassion. If I'm wrong, so be it, the nice thing about being an Atheist is I don't think I'll have to deal with any consequences of anything after I'm dead.



I am not talking about you caring what people think. I am saying take a few years off to "raise the kids." Then look for a job and tell us how well you are received. You will not be accepted near as well as a woman who does the same.


Quote:

I almost missed this! Is school, "Warehousing," them then? Ideally, these are trained professionals in the realm of handling kids.

And, no offense or personal insult intended because it's just a fact, but raising little kids isn't easy. I actually know a little something about it.



Pretty much that is what school ends up doing these days. Who said raising kids is easy? I didn't. I never wanted any part of it.

Quote:

"Tolerance is the virtue of believing in nothing," it says.

That's brilliant. People who are tolerant, "Believe in nothing," according to that quote...despite the fact that such people very clearly believe in tolerance itself.



Yes, they believe in nothing. They just have a "whatever" attitude. I believe a gay lifestyle is a bad and unhealthy choice. I believe if you choose to have kids you should be raising them and not farming it out. "Tolerant" people will not say anything is right or wrong. They have no beliefs.

What all this has to do with the thread topic I have no idea.
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billryan
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:31:45 AM permalink
Best thread ever.
Learning about feminism from AZ is akin to learning about subtle shades of blue from a person blind since birth.
Reminds me of the rare episode of Drunken History that actually works.
The difference between fiction and reality is that fiction is supposed to make sense.
RonC
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:34:15 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

It is a strange story. By no means a disqualifying one, but eyebrow raising worthy.



It is the story of the day, but I agree with you...

Now, as in any vetting process, too many raised eyebrows can become a problem.

I was actually hoping to get this thread back to discussing the nominee and all; I guess I should just appeal to BBB or another mod to change the title because it has been severely derailed....
AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:36:14 AM permalink
Quote: billryan

Best thread ever.
Learning about feminism from AZ is akin to learning about subtle shades of blue from a person blind since birth.
Reminds me of the rare episode of Drunken History that actually works.



From me you might just learn what feminism is really about.
All animals are equal, but some are more equal than others
beachbumbabs
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July 12th, 2018 at 11:55:37 AM permalink
Quote: RonC

It is the story of the day, but I agree with you...

Now, as in any vetting process, too many raised eyebrows can become a problem.

I was actually hoping to get this thread back to discussing the nominee and all; I guess I should just appeal to BBB or another mod to change the title because it has been severely derailed....



Naw, you're right to a large extent. The discussion is directly pertinent in exploring the basis on which the nominee will be questioned, but it's background compared to the intent of the thread.

Sorry for my part in the derail. If the other stuff gets back in, we can split it out.
If the House lost every hand, they wouldn't deal the game.
Mission146
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July 12th, 2018 at 12:00:44 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

What do conservative males have to do with it?



I'm just musing over what possible reasons a woman might have to want to get divorced. That's all. If I were a woman, and my husband did not believe I should pursue a career despite my wanting to do that, then I might want to divorce him.

Quote:

I am not talking about you caring what people think. I am saying take a few years off to "raise the kids." Then look for a job and tell us how well you are received. You will not be accepted near as well as a woman who does the same.



Well, I guess that's part of what I am saying the problem is. If a man, a woman, or both, want to take a little time off to raise a child...then who should judge either of them for it?

Quote:

Pretty much that is what school ends up doing these days. Who said raising kids is easy? I didn't. I never wanted any part of it.



Good move. Me either. I had to accept responsibility, in terms of what the word means to me, for my actions, though.

Quote:

Yes, they believe in nothing. They just have a "whatever" attitude. I believe a gay lifestyle is a bad and unhealthy choice. I believe if you choose to have kids you should be raising them and not farming it out. "Tolerant" people will not say anything is right or wrong. They have no beliefs.

What all this has to do with the thread topic I have no idea.



They believe in tolerance, is my point. To whatever extent that, 'Tolerance,' has a definition, it is not equivalent to, "Nothing." I have read the definitions for both, "Nothing," and, "Tolerance," in every dictionary I quickly could, and as far as I can tell, they don't have anything to do with one another. You're going to have to redefine one word or another if we're to have a conversation using those words.

I mean, I'm tolerant and I believe I have beliefs for how I should raise my kids and what they should be taught.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
RonC
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July 12th, 2018 at 12:08:43 PM permalink
Quote: beachbumbabs

Naw, you're right to a large extent. The discussion is directly pertinent in exploring the basis on which the nominee will be questioned, but it's background compared to the intent of the thread.

Sorry for my part in the derail. If the other stuff gets back in, we can split it out.



Certain discussions take on a life of their own...
rxwine
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July 12th, 2018 at 12:19:50 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

From me you might just learn what feminism is really about.



If feminism were actually about what you think it is about it would have barely existed as a movement.

Maybe you can join NOW.

Quote:

For over 50 years, we've fought for women's rights including access to abortion and reproductive healthcare, economic justice, ending violence against women, racial justice, equal rights for the LGBTQIA community, and more.
NOW is the largest organization of grassroots feminist activists in the country and our members fuel NOW's grassroots activism to help achieve equality and justice.




Quote:

https://now.org/about/faqs/

There's no secret. Just know what you're talking about before you open your mouth.
DRich
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July 12th, 2018 at 12:23:47 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Best thread ever.
Learning about feminism from AZ is akin to learning about subtle shades of blue from a person blind since birth.
Reminds me of the rare episode of Drunken History that actually works.



Or, learning about how casinos work according to Zenking.
At my age, a "Life In Prison" sentence is not much of a deterrent.
AZDuffman
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July 12th, 2018 at 12:50:05 PM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I'm just musing over what possible reasons a woman might have to want to get divorced. That's all. If I were a woman, and my husband did not believe I should pursue a career despite my wanting to do that, then I might want to divorce him.



Why would a conservative be more or less in favor of a woman pursuing a career? I doubt that such a reason is high on why wome file for divorce. I have not seen it once in fact.
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Mission146
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July 12th, 2018 at 1:13:31 PM permalink
Quote: AZDuffman

Why would a conservative be more or less in favor of a woman pursuing a career? I doubt that such a reason is high on why wome file for divorce. I have not seen it once in fact.



I'm just saying a non-zero amount of Conservatives would not be in favor of women pursuing careers, and I'm speaking from personal observations, on that one.

Look, I just want individual people to do whatever they want to do that they think will make their lives the most satisfactory and fulfilling, provided it is within the laws to promote the public safety. Have women gotten a divorce because they feel their husbands are trying to control them, if not with words, then with threats regarding the children or a physical slap in the face...yes, I have seen that. And, I'm glad you haven't seen that, because it breaks your ******* heart, man.

When you're sitting with a woman with a black eye, who was a friend of yours in high school, and she's crying to you about how she doesn't want to divorce her husband because she's afraid he'll try to find some way to take the kids away from her forever, because he'll kill her if he finds out she wants to get out of that...but she doesn't want you to beat the **** out of him with a tire iron...because you would love to do that more than anything else on Earth...because a part of her still loves him and does not want to see him hurt....

Anyway, you've never seen a Conservative, "Once in fact," try to control his wife or otherwise abuse her.

And, if that's true, you have experienced very positive variance. I'm glad you have. Because when a woman comes to you and your wife, or you and you fiance/significant other, wondering if they are going to DIE for trying to leave a physically abusive relationship, it can be a very painful thing, man. It's not something I want you, or anyone else, to have to experience.
https://wizardofvegas.com/forum/off-topic/gripes/11182-pet-peeves/120/#post815219
Paradigm
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July 12th, 2018 at 3:38:06 PM permalink
Quote: billryan

Best thread ever.
Learning about feminism from AZ is akin to learning about subtle shades of blue from a person blind since birth.
Reminds me of the rare episode of Drunken History that actually works.


This thread is more like a mirror of reality. The Trump Administration guts Obamacare penalties, cuts taxes, enforces border laws, confirms Gorsuch, keeps the economy humming along and now will get Kavanaugh confirmed by a 51/49 vote...simultaneously the Left continues cry and whine about collusion and how the sky is falling, yet comes up empty on results...too funny!
djatc
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July 12th, 2018 at 4:18:43 PM permalink
you guys need more then 1 political thread? nerds
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gamerfreak
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July 12th, 2018 at 4:26:51 PM permalink
Quote: Paradigm

This thread is more like a mirror of reality. The Trump Administration guts Obamacare penalties, cuts taxes, enforces border laws, confirms Gorsuch, keeps the economy humming along and now will get Kavanaugh confirmed by a 51/49 vote...simultaneously the Left continues cry and whine about collusion and how the sky is falling, yet comes up empty on results...too funny!


The Republicans b!tched and moaned about Obamacare for 8 years yet had absolutely no solutions once they were at bat.

And so the cycle continues.

Nothing will change until we can get away from the garbage identity politics that both sides play in this country (and in these political threads). It makes me sick.
RogerKint
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July 12th, 2018 at 4:27:57 PM permalink
Quote: djatc

you guys need more then 1 political thread? nerds



WOV: Come for the gaming math analysis, stay to watch people lose they sh!t in a political thread.
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AZDuffman
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July 13th, 2018 at 4:43:56 AM permalink
Quote: Mission146

I'm just saying a non-zero amount of Conservatives would not be in favor of women pursuing careers, and I'm speaking from personal observations, on that one.



And a nonzero amount of liberal men. What exactly is the point?

Quote:

When you're sitting with a woman with a black eye, who was a friend of yours in high school, and she's crying to you about how she doesn't want to divorce her husband because she's afraid he'll try to find some way to take the kids away from her forever, because he'll kill her if he finds out she wants to get out of that...but she doesn't want you to beat the **** out of him with a tire iron...because you would love to do that more than anything else on Earth...because a part of her still loves him and does not want to see him hurt....

Anyway, you've never seen a Conservative, "Once in fact," try to control his wife or otherwise abuse her.

And, if that's true, you have experienced very positive variance. I'm glad you have. Because when a woman comes to you and your wife, or you and you fiance/significant other, wondering if they are going to DIE for trying to leave a physically abusive relationship, it can be a very painful thing, man. It's not something I want you, or anyone else, to have to experience.



And the sad part is such women keep going back to the guy for years. Keep refusing to press charges. Start a thread if you want to have that discussion, but I will not follow. Too many women like to be treated like dirt and chase the jerks who treat them that way. Heck, it was not physical abuse, but we had Hillary Clinton held up as some kind of role model for young women and she kept going back to a guy who mistreated and made a fool of her. She even defended him over it on national TV!

Seriously, you have to explain what this has to do with a guy being conservative. Conservatives I have known treat women respectfully, often to the point of not using foul language when women are around. Now, they do not jump up and down saying how much they love abortion, so liberal women do not give them credit as much. Bus I do not see why you want to keep drawing this correlation of a guy being conservative and his woman being mistreated.
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RonC
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July 13th, 2018 at 5:30:09 AM permalink
The Democrats/Liberals are wasting a lot of time and energy worrying about the Kavanaugh confirmation, which will happen absent someone discovering disqualifying information, and ignoring the obvious opportunity to codify Roe v. Wade into state laws in as many states as possible. Governor Cuomo is talking about "suing the Supreme Court" if they overturn Roe v. Wade. On the face of it, I don't really think that is possible...and his own state still has laws on the books that pro-abortion folks may not like (the process required for abortions past 24 weeks). Roe v. Wade being overturned does not end abortion; it would end the so-called "right" to abortion.

State law would then apply...

"Instead, a repeal of Roe would shift the battle from the federal courts to state legislatures, where lawmakers in every state would make their own rules about when, where and under what circumstances women could obtain abortions."

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/news/politics/2018/07/09/roe-v-wade-what-happens-if-supreme-court-scotus-overturns-abortion-precedent/759500002/

That is more in keeping with what the founders intended--much more should be handled at the State level rather than the huge Federal government we have allowed it to become. Some states are more conservative; some liberal. The folks in Washington have way too much power over both of them.

I don't think Kavanaugh will be the deciding vote on Roe v> Wade; it will still be protected by Roberts with a 5-4 vote with Kavanaugh on the court. The next pick will be the one that would make overturning it possible...but it still would take an actual case that challenged Roe being brought to the Court before anything can happen.
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