odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 5th, 2016 at 12:16:01 PM permalink
Hooboy.

It would seem at first blush that Portis got into trouble gambling, but in a quote in the article he seems to try to drag some guy named Jeff Rubin and his invest-into-a-casino fraud into it.

I think first blush is winning out with me.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2613906-clinton-portis-allegedly-paid-atlantic-city-casino-debt-with-bad-checks
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
terapined
terapined
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February 5th, 2016 at 3:32:19 PM permalink
An EX-football player gets a 170k credit from a casino
This is an ex-player
I can understand a casino giving a football player 170k credit
but an ex?
The gravy train is over for ex-players
Might as well kiss that 170k goodbye
Dumb casino and dumber ex-player
"Everybody's bragging and drinking that wine, I can tell the Queen of Diamonds by the way she shines, Come to Daddy on an inside straight, I got no chance of losing this time" -Grateful Dead- "Loser"
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 5th, 2016 at 6:03:47 PM permalink
Quote: terapined

An EX-football player gets a 170k credit from a casino
This is an ex-player
I can understand a casino giving a football player 170k credit
but an ex?
The gravy train is over for ex-players
Might as well kiss that 170k goodbye
Dumb casino and dumber ex-player



Over the years I've given some thought to this sort of thing, giving a degenerate gambler credit. Why does this happen? Portis is hardly alone.

Here is one scenario that comes to mind:

You offer a game in which you have a large edge to someone you find can't stop himself from playing and playing, and is pretty much assured to give it all back.

The 'credit' is only good for making bets with you at this game.

At the beginning you know he has a lot of money.

At another point, you know you have all of his money.

So, what does it hurt to be sure? You let him continue to play with this special kind of credit. What is the risk? He always gives it all back. Maybe he lives off some small part of it when he gets lucky, but remember, you took *all* his money already. 99% of it, you are going to just get it back. For one thing, when he does win, you'll be demanding he pay off his debt.

Perhaps he has some sort of income. You will get that too. Perhaps he will beg, lie, cheat, and steal to get more money to gamble with. You will get that too. You wind up owning this guy, you have total power over him.

I first started thinking about this when someone I knew [just a little] was allegedly and apparently killed for owing the mob money. Or maybe he was talking to the police about their illegal game; he was stealing from the gas station he managed, allegedly. I don't know anything for a fact other than clearly he was murdered mob style.

In any case I decided there was a certain logic to what would seem to make no sense at all.
Last edited by: odiousgambit on Feb 6, 2016
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 6th, 2016 at 4:11:10 AM permalink
PS: I have to think that the explanation for the "bad checks" is the way that casinos handle Markers for players. The players, the way I understand it, agree to repay without interest these amounts by check. I believe it is also true that the casinos automatically try to 'cash' these checks after a certain amount of time, without the player doing anything [all previously arranged]. The casino of course is careful to say these are bounced checks, because if they were regular loans they could be discharged through bankruptcy.

I find it a little remarkable that the people who write these articles don't go into that. As in the below.

http://deadspin.com/filing-clinton-portis-tried-to-pay-back-170-000-casin-1757099015
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 13th, 2016 at 4:09:39 AM permalink
I'd really like to know how often Casinos use 'Markers' to get a vulnerable gambler into even more trouble. In particular the special cases where I think there is little doubt the house risk is near zero to make what are actually loans. I'll repeat it again: It becomes clear that this special kind of credit, only good to make bets at that Casino, is going to be be giving a product out that will be returned to the casino in full. The only cost to the casino could easily be whatever it takes to put the dealers and tables etc. in place above and beyond what is already in place needing to be utilized. I wouldn't be a bit surprised to learn that the gambler is told there will be no comps as long as they still haven't paid off their old debt. It's important to also realize it allows the casino to continue to take whatever income and money the player manages to get his hands on in the future, see up-thread.

I'm still waiting for someone to read this claim and refute it. What other cost could there be? I suppose there is an infinitesimal chance the player could get fabulously lucky for a stretch and defy assumptions by then gambling no more, or gambling elsewhere only.

Again, this is a special kind of debt too that involves a pre-agreement to submit checks to discharge the debt. The player agrees to let the casino automatically submit these checks over time, no longer in control of approving the if and when of it, and then the bouncing necessarily becomes public record. This also means it is safe from being wiped clean in bankruptcy court.

Check out the athletes in the links. I wonder if there is a single one who doesn't know all about 'Markers' and how they got screwed by them. We can say for sure massive debt became publicly known.

http://www.rehabs.com/8-pro-athletes-with-outrageous-gambling-addictions/

http://www.businessinsider.com/10-pro-athletes-who-couldnt-stop-gambling-2011-8
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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February 18th, 2016 at 5:33:10 AM permalink
I'm just going to keep piling it on with this thread. I've taken an interest. See link.

Casinos have predatory practices, don't they? I only recently was focused so much on the Markers.

Anyway, Reggie Rucker was not all that well know but ""was a wide receiver who played 12 years in the NFL from 1970 to 1981, including seven seasons with the Cleveland Browns". In any case, we can add him to the list.

The news reports never sympathize much with the gambler caught up in this stuff, and rightly so. Nor would I want to see the debts incurred with Markers generally be subject to being wiped by bankruptcy. However, I am leaning now towards thinking in certain cases they should be acknowledged as debt and dis-chargeable.

Mr. Rucker has to answer for outright theft, of course.

http://newpittsburghcourieronline.com/2016/02/17/ex-nfl-player-charged-with-stealing-money-from-ohio-groups/
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
ukaserex
ukaserex
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February 18th, 2016 at 7:55:48 AM permalink
Wow.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

I read these links with great interest. Living here in South Alabama, it brings it clear why they don't let us have casinos (except the indian reservation casinos) or the lottery.

One could argue that if they allow the Indians to have one, they may as well let everyone else, but that's a different thread for someone smarter than me.

I can never understand these people who get themselves into those situations - until I'm in front of that blasted VP machine that refused to even give me a full house, let alone a quad after an hour of play. And then that fire within me starts thinking erroneously about how I can beat the machine if I just play a bit more...

The only thing I don't get - if I have millions in the bank, why go to a casino? Have some fun spending that loot. Leave the casino alone.
"Those who have no idea what they are doing, genuinely have no idea that they don't know what they are doing." - John Cleese
TwoFeathersATL
TwoFeathersATL
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February 18th, 2016 at 10:10:32 AM permalink
Quote: ukaserex

Wow.

There but for the grace of God, go I.

I read these links with great interest. Living here in South Alabama, it brings it clear why they don't let us have casinos (except the indian reservation casinos) or the lottery.
<snip>
The only thing I don't get - if I have millions in the bank, why go to a casino? Have some fun spending that loot. Leave the casino alone.

. Wow! I hadn't previously noticed the LA zip code.
Casinos are fun, kind of like Disney World, what's not to like? .. ;-)
Youuuuuu MIGHT be a 'rascal' if.......(nevermind ;-)...2F
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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March 20th, 2016 at 7:23:04 AM permalink
Again, the question is asked, “Why is a casino extending credit without knowing whether the person has the funds to pay it?”

from:

http://lasvegassun.com/news/2011/jan/30/taking-casinos-ride/

No, no mystery here. I decided to do a blog post, check it out.
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain
odiousgambit
odiousgambit
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July 18th, 2016 at 3:38:04 AM permalink
A certain Harel Zahavi has run afoul of the casino marker system as well. This article is critical of that system and how "Las Vegas casinos use state law – and specifically the formidable power of the District Attorney’s office – as a means of debt collection". A take on the matter that is rare enough, it would seem.

https://www.prisonlegalnews.org/news/2014/dec/3/debtors-prisons-prevail-las-vegas-thanks-prosecutors-and-casino-markers-law/
"Baccarat is a game whereby the croupier gathers in money with a flexible sculling oar, then rakes it home. If I could have borrowed his oar I would have stayed." .......... Mark Twain

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