HOA F'd with the wrong guy

Quote: terapined

http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/24865253/dog-attacks-and-kills-two-year-old-in-killeen
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/new-jersey-cops-identify-boy-13-killed-bullmastiff-paterson-article-1.1708105
http://abcnews.go.com/US/boy-survived-oklahoma-tornado-mauled-bull-mastiff/story?id=19374022
http://ipost.christianpost.com/news/tibetan-mastiff-kills-a-6-year-old-girl-in-china-photosvideo-10853/

Potential buyer of neighbors home in Ace's neighborhood.
Ace has warned you.
Do not buy.
Buyer beware

Bear this in mind.
You are paying the other lawyers fee through your HOA fees.
I guarantee you that the HOA lawyer is not a lawyer that's specialty is divorce :-)

It's a good thing one of my best friends is a Constitutional lawyer!

You answered none of my questions about neighbors' religious beliefs and their decorating their front doors with religious symbols? Why is their right to display religious symbolism more valuable than my right to ward off potential intruders?


PS--civil liberties are more important than property values--once they aren't, we are lost as a society

PPS--WOW you can google scary stories about dogs -- I can google scary stories of people ceasing to fight for their rights (not invoking Godwin's Law here)

Quote: aceofspades

It's a good thing one of my best friends is a Constitutional lawyer!

You answered none of my questions about neighbors' religious beliefs and their decorating their front doors with religious symbols? Why is their right to display religious symbolism more valuable than my right to ward off potential intruders?


PS--civil liberties are more important than property values--once they aren't, we are lost as a society

PPS--WOW you can google scary stories about dogs -- I can google scary stories of people ceasing to fight for their rights (not invoking Godwin's Law here)

Why did you choose to live in a deed restricted community with a HOA?
You can have the total freedom you want on a property not governed by a HOA.
The original dispute, I agree with you.
The sign, I don't.
Do you talk to your neighbors?
We had some a-holes on our HOA board.
No neighborhood wants a-holes on the board.
Theses guys , yes a couple but who cares, were the sole neighborhood interpreters on the HOA agreement.
It was their way or the highway.
The tiniest imperfection and they were on you.
We voted them out. Neighbors got together and agreed, we had an a-hole on the board.
People can be reasonable. Talk to your neighbors.
I get the feeling you were angry about the original incident and am now escalating.
Talk to your neighbors. Maybe you have a-holes on the board and your neighbors are fed up also.
Have you thought of running for the board?

Remember, why do people tend to hate HOA's, because they tend to always prevail in the end.

Quote: terapined

http://www.myfoxaustin.com/story/24865253/dog-attacks-and-kills-two-year-old-in-killeen

Potential buyer of neighbors home in Ace's neighborhood.
Ace has warned you.
Do not buy.
Buyer beware

Bear this in mind.
You are paying the other lawyers fee through your HOA fees.
I guarantee you that the HOA lawyer is not a lawyer that's specialty is divorce :-)

I'm reading all these expert posts. Anyone been in real estate 9 years and live in an HOA Building??
So imo, being in an hoa means rules, neighbors, uniform. That being said. A beware of dog sign means nothing. I've seen numerous, I mean numerous signs that are just that, signs. No dog actually lives there. Grills, now that screams fire, hazard, my life. In my state, no rentals are allowed to have grills on a rental balcony, period.
I've actually had clients comment, "Oh I actually like if my neighbors dogs are watching at night while I sleep."

As far as signs...In my state, Realtors are most likely not allowed to put real estate signs out, and if It is permitted in the HOA's, it's in a window, inside.

Quote: terapined

Why did you choose to live in a deed restricted community with a HOA?
You can have the total freedom you want on a property not governed by a HOA.
The original dispute, I agree with you.
The sign, I don't.
Do you talk to your neighbors?
We had some a-holes on our HOA board.
No neighborhood wants a-holes on the board.
Theses guys , yes a couple but who cares, were the sole neighborhood interpreters on the HOA agreement.
It was their way or the highway.
The tiniest imperfection and they were on you.
We voted them out. Neighbors got together and agreed, we had an a-hole on the board.
People can be reasonable. Talk to your neighbors.
I get the feeling you were angry about the original incident and am now escalating.
Talk to your neighbors. Maybe you have a-holes on the board and your neighbors are fed up also.
Have you thought of running for the board?

Remember, why do people tend to hate HOA's, because they tend to always prevail in the end.

The entire makeup of the board is from the "Over-55" side of the community - they are all retired and in their 70's and do nothing all day but patrol the community looking for nonsense to complain about. Those of us with things to do during the day do not have time to sit around and deal with this BS (however much time they have to make a rule that only applies to 2 people re: beware of dog signs, they have had ZERO time for the following issues which have been brought to their attention numerous times: charcoal BBQs on wooden balconies; cigarette butts in the streets; cars without parking permits; commercial vehicles; one couple who keep about 100 parakeets in their garage (they are definitely breeding and selling them); a guy who is going through a divorce with his wife actually living in the community clubhouse (the HOA denied both knowledge of this and that it was actually occurring LOL) and finally, I recently found that there are $50k in unpaid maintenance fees and the board wants to raise the maintenance fees (basically forcing the paying owners to subsidize the non-paying owners)

Well, since I sent my letter, I have not heard from the HOA

Quote: Crapsallday

I'm reading all these expert posts. Anyone been in real estate 9 years and live in an HOA Building??
So imo, being in an hoa means rules, neighbors, uniform. That being said. A beware of dog sign means nothing. I've seen numerous, I mean numerous signs that are just that, signs. No dog actually lives there. Grills, now that screams fire, hazard, my life. In my state, no rentals are allowed to have grills on a rental balcony, period.
I've actually had clients comment, "Oh I actually like if my neighbors dogs are watching at night while I sleep."

As far as signs...In my state, Realtors are most likely not allowed to put real estate signs out, and if It is permitted in the HOA's, it's in a window, inside.

In the words of Arthur Fonzarelli, "Exactamundo!"

Quote: aceofspades

The entire makeup of the board is from the "Over-55" side of the community - they are all retired and in their 70's and do nothing all day but patrol the community looking for nonsense to complain about.

lol, everyone needs a hobby.

Quote:

Well, since I sent my letter, I have not heard from the HOA

Oh, I'm sure they are plotting. Since you said they have nothing to do.

Quote: aceofspades

The entire makeup of the board is from the "Over-55" side of the community - they are all retired and in their 70's and do nothing all day but patrol the community looking for nonsense to complain about. Those of us with things to do during the day do not have time to sit around and deal with this BS (however much time they have to make a rule that only applies to 2 people re: beware of dog signs, they have had ZERO time for the following issues which have been brought to their attention numerous times: charcoal BBQs on wooden balconies; cigarette butts in the streets; cars without parking permits; commercial vehicles; one couple who keep about 100 parakeets in their garage (they are definitely breeding and selling them); a guy who is going through a divorce with his wife actually living in the community clubhouse (the HOA denied both knowledge of this and that it was actually occurring LOL) and finally, I recently found that there are $50k in unpaid maintenance fees and the board wants to raise the maintenance fees (basically forcing the paying owners to subsidize the non-paying owners)

Well, since I sent my letter, I have not heard from the HOA

Hmm, that a-hole couple of guys on the board we voted out.
They filed a lawsuit against the board for not enforcing the rules.
They had no case because the rules were being enforced, just not to their fanatical satisfaction.
Maybe you have a valid case against the board.
Maybe instead of defense, you should maybe look at offense?

Quote: terapined

Hmm, that a-hole couple of guys on the board we voted out.
They filed a lawsuit against the board for not enforcing the rules.
They had no case because the rules were being enforced, just not to their fanatical satisfaction.
Maybe you have a valid case against the board.
Maybe instead of defense, you should maybe look at offense?

My time is more valuable than going on the offense against some idiotic retirees with too much time on their hands and not enough testosterone in their balls.

Quote: aceofspades

The entire makeup of the board is from the "Over-55" side of the community - they are all retired and in their 70's and do nothing all day but patrol the community looking for nonsense to complain about. Those of us with things to do during the day do not have time to sit around and deal with this BS (however much time they have to make a rule that only applies to 2 people re: beware of dog signs, they have had ZERO time for the following issues which have been brought to their attention numerous times: charcoal BBQs on wooden balconies; cigarette butts in the streets; cars without parking permits; commercial vehicles; one couple who keep about 100 parakeets in their garage (they are definitely breeding and selling them); a guy who is going through a divorce with his wife actually living in the community clubhouse (the HOA denied both knowledge of this and that it was actually occurring LOL) and finally, I recently found that there are $50k in unpaid maintenance fees and the board wants to raise the maintenance fees (basically forcing the paying owners to subsidize the non-paying owners)

How in the name of all that is holy can you... I can't even say "put up with this garbage", because that is nowhere near strong enough. Seriously, man. I am becoming furious just reading this.

"HOA". EL OH EL

Quote: Face

How in the name of all that is holy can you... I can't even say "put up with this garbage", because that is nowhere near strong enough. Seriously, man. I am becoming furious just reading this.

"HOA". EL OH EL

The Town Fire Marshall, in response to my email re: BBQs, stated it was a community issue, not a Fire Marshall issue (despite the law being clear that BBQs on wooden balconies are illegal).
The Town Attorney, in response to my email, said she would refer it to the Town Fire Marshall
Circle Jerk anyone?

Quote: aceofspades

Circle Jerk anyone?

Quote: seriouslyfunny

yes please

Everything you said about your HOA describes mine perfectly. Thanks for the inspirational story of fighting back. Ed's way seemed to work too except my direct neighbor is one of the elderly running the joint. I swear there's a tow truck right around every corner for any minor parking infraction.

Quote: RogerKint

Everything you said about your HOA describes mine perfectly. Thanks for the inspirational story of fighting back. Ed's way seemed to work too except my direct neighbor is one of the elderly running the joint. I swear there's a tow truck right around every corner for any minor parking infraction.

Thanks RK - keep up the good fight

Quote: terapined

If I was looking as a potential buyer and saw Aces sign, I probably would pass.
A sign like that can devalue a neighbors property.

Oh, come on. That is crazy. And this attitude is exactly why I will never live in a HOA neighborhood by choice.

Just to stir the pot, what if it was some other kind of sign? What if it was the "gay pride" flag?

HOAs are great if you want to live in a sea of sameness with no individuality.

Quote: Gabes22

I would suggest that if the HOA makes him take down the sign and his dog bites someone the HOA should be held liable

Depending on the situation I might agree. It would have to be a situation where the sign could've clearly helped prevent it. I can see a situation where another dog owner may avoid taking their dog near his place, because they seen that sign. If the HOA refuses to allow fair warning, then someone came by with a dog and the dogs got into a fight. I think they should both go after the HOA. Assuming both dog owners had reasonable control of their dogs.

If his dog attacked someone like close to his house I can see that person going after both him and thee HOA. The could argue the wouldn't have gone near his place had they known AOS had a vicious doggy.

Sorry for calling your dog vicious, but hopefully it will keep you know who at bay.

I's sure that some HOA board members have everyone's best interests at heart but I suspect far more have other agendas. There are incompetent, power hungry, unfair, narcissistic people out there, maladjusted people who think everything is about them. Those who dismiss others as troublemakers for daring to disagree, make an observation, ask a simple question or offer an opinion. Those who use selective enforcement of rules and attempt to threaten and intimidate others.

It's pervasive in all areas of life whether it be in a community, the workplace, the military or social media. These sad little "hall monitor" wannabes are everywhere and they aren't going away. If they do, there's always someone willing to take their place.

Quote: 1BB

I's sure that some HOA board members have everyone's best interests at heart but I suspect far more have other agendas. There are incompetent, power hungry, unfair, narcissistic people out there, maladjusted people who think everything is about them. Those who dismiss others as troublemakers for daring to disagree, make an observation, ask a simple question or offer an opinion. Those who use selective enforcement of rules and attempt to threaten and intimidate others.

Facts are facts, putting aside having to be a murderous thug a lot of people look at the idea of being dictator of a country and think it would have to be a pretty cool job. Many people look at things and think "things would be better if only I were in charge!" Since it is hard to be a dictator they get on boards of HOAs where they can trample on people based on some flimsy excuse that they are protecting property values.

Quote: 1BB

There are incompetent, power hungry, unfair, narcissistic people out there, maladjusted people who think everything is about them. Those who dismiss others as troublemakers for daring to disagree, make an observation, ask a simple question or offer an opinion. Those who use selective enforcement of rules and attempt to threaten and intimidate others

And these tend to be the people that want to be on the HOA board...

I'm living in an HOA for the first time, something I thought I'd never do but circumstances require it. Mine is actually pretty decent, with an attitude of "reactive" not "proactive". There are scores of minor violations all over the place, (including my own), but unless someone reports it there is unlikely to be any repercussions. A bordering area is a little stricter though, with one homeowner recently being fined $50 for having a weed in his yard that was over 6" tall.

My approach for dealing with my HOA ( 13 years under their jurisdiction).

1st: convince them you are stone cold crazy, and probably dangerous. Firearms incidents, crazy and dangerous looking friends, etc help here. They may perhaps avoid any conflict with you out of fear for their personal safety. You could consider shooting the offending grill "in self defense".

2nd: surprise them with a floor nomination for you as one of the replacement members for those whose terms are expiring, at the next annual mtg. Catches em off guard when the nominating committee's candidate loses to you.

3rd: get elected Vice President of the Board, that post has the least actual duties, mostly monitoring whether the other members are doing their jobs to your satisfaction. Be a pain in the ass at meetings occasionally. Taking your shoe off and banging it on the table during heated debates scares the hell out of em.

You do need to have the best interests of the neighborhood as your driving motivation however.

Oh, and always howl at the moon in your yard when it's full. There are many other tactics, get creative! 2F

Quote: TwoFeathersATL

My approach for dealing with my HOA ( 13 years under their jurisdiction).

1st: convince them you are stone cold crazy, and probably dangerous. Firearms incidents, crazy and dangerous looking friends, etc help here. They may perhaps avoid any conflict with you out of fear for their personal safety. You could consider shooting the offending grill "in self defense".

2nd: surprise them with a floor nomination for you as one of the replacement members for those whose terms are expiring, at the next annual mtg. Catches em off guard when the nominating committee's candidate loses to you.

3rd: get elected Vice President of the Board, that post has the least actual duties, mostly monitoring whether the other members are doing their jobs to your satisfaction. Be a pain in the ass at meetings occasionally. Taking your shoe off and banging it on the table during heated debates scares the hell out of em.

You do need to have the best interests of the neighborhood as your driving motivation however.

Oh, and always howl at the moon in your yard when it's full. There are many other tactics, get creative! 2F

Just don't get caught being barefoot in the clubhouse. That was Kramer's downfall after all

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Ace, what does the NJ constitution say about you putting up a sign that reads, "Beware of HOA."

Quote: aceofspades

Well, since I sent my letter, I have not heard from the HOA

Perhaps they've been following your last few Vegas trip reports here and are taking pity on you?

OK, I'm confused by the poll (happens a lot and the frequency seems to accelerating ;-). If I pick option #4, am I stating that I am a bigot or that AoS is a bigot? Should there be an option that says " AoS and I are both bigots", and perhaps one that says "neither of us are bigots". Might as well add a Clinton response "define bigot".

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

When you bring a swastika into it, you enter the realm of hate speech and that is another can of worms.

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

We were trying to avoid Godwin's Law herein

Quote: Gabes22

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

When you bring a swastika into it, you enter the realm of hate speech and that is another can of worms.

I think the proverbial can is already open, some people actually hate dogs, or at least dogs as 'pets'.

Quote: Gabes22

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

When you bring a swastika into it, you enter the realm of hate speech and that is another can of worms.

Swastika is also an ancient religious symbol over 12,000 years old

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gabes22

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

When you bring a swastika into it, you enter the realm of hate speech and that is another can of worms.

Swastika is also an ancient religious symbol over 12,000 years old

Yeah, who doesn't already know that - BUT - you cannot reference being a nazi skinhead as the reason for placing the swastika then argue it is an ancient religious symbol

Quote: aceofspades

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gabes22

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

When you bring a swastika into it, you enter the realm of hate speech and that is another can of worms.

Swastika is also an ancient religious symbol over 12,000 years old

Yeah, who doesn't already know that - BUT - you cannot reference being a nazi skinhead as the reason for placing the swastika then argue it is an ancient religious symbol

Budhists generally shave their heads.
In a way, they are real skin heads.

"In Buddhism, the swastika signifies auspiciousness and good fortune as well as the Buddha's footprints and the Buddha's heart. The swastika is said to contain the whole mind of the Buddha and can often be found imprinted on the chest, feet or palms of Buddha images. It is also the first of the 65 auspicious symbols on the footprint of the Buddha."

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika

Quote: terapined

Quote: aceofspades

Quote: terapined

Quote: Gabes22

Quote: terapined

Quote: RS

Sure, having the "beware of dog" sign might make it less attractive for potential buyers of neighboring units. And for that reason, it would "hurt" the guy trying to sell his home. But then again, if the sign was taken down, it would "hurt" the guy who is buying the house [assuming he doesn't want to live next door to a "big dog"]. I think it'd be more unfair for the guy buying the house, since once he buys the house he's stuck with it. But the guy who's selling the house, I'd imagine it would just take a little bit more time to sell the house with your sign up than it would without the sign.


Good work Ace, anything new on the situation? Keep that sign up!

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

When you bring a swastika into it, you enter the realm of hate speech and that is another can of worms.

Swastika is also an ancient religious symbol over 12,000 years old

Yeah, who doesn't already know that - BUT - you cannot reference being a nazi skinhead as the reason for placing the swastika then argue it is an ancient religious symbol

Budhists generally shave their heads.
In a way, they are real skin heads.

"In Buddhism, the swastika signifies auspiciousness and good fortune as well as the Buddha's footprints and the Buddha's heart. The swastika is said to contain the whole mind of the Buddha and can often be found imprinted on the chest, feet or palms of Buddha images. It is also the first of the 65 auspicious symbols on the footprint of the Buddha."

http://www.religionfacts.com/buddhism/symbols/swastika

You said NAZI - you are arguing against yourself
Please read and review what you typed before posting

Trying to avoid Godwin's law was a good idea.. Really good idea. But bringing the Nazis into a discussion about the HOA, that is funny.... Really funny!

Two HOAs walked into the bar looking for customers......pls somebody finish the joke..

Quote: Gabes22

I would suggest that if the HOA makes him take down the sign and his dog bites someone the HOA should be held liable

Such a strict community would probably have extremely explicit leash regulations, making a bite highly unlikely.

AOS, being who he is has handled this in an appropriate manner and hopefully has heard the last of the neighbors. He has set a good standard should any of us get hung up with the same situation, although he will have to be able to live not being on the xmas card mailing list of the HOA.

That being said the HOA appears to be a group of eunuchs willing to hide behind arbitrary rules in order to secure their petty positions of authority in order to fulfill their insecure needs at the expense of the rest of the community.

Now on the flip side, look at this from the viewpoint of some destitute divorcee with an ax to grind against some attorney who didn't get her lusts satisfied because her ex only has to pay her 6 figures for doing nothing and gaining 40 pounds until the sun no longer comes up in the morning.

What the divorcee could do is start agitating the dog, drive the poor dog nuts with inaudible whistles, and recorded sounds to anger, and frustrate and cause "fang" to be afraid. Start putting scents of dogs or cats in estrus in places where "fang" is sure to travel, combine a sniff with and inaudible whistle and pretty soon what you have is a neurotic dog who by the way probably isn't getting enough exercise.

What the divorcee needs to do is maybe smear her hoodie with bullion juices and lunge occasionally at the dog until she can get the dog to bite her, just once, one little bite, maybe with pre-arranged scratches on her arm and a witness [maybe in on it] and voila...easy street. As a matter of fact, she doesn't even have to get the dog to bite her, just the rich and powerful attorney, her best BFF, and herself in a hallway and all she has to do is scream, scream in bloody terror and say the sign was only in one language and she can own this SC attorney, from now on. It's like double dipping on alimony. Easy peazy, just sayin.

Quote: petroglyph

AOS, being who he is has handled this in an appropriate manner and hopefully has heard the last of the neighbors. He has set a good standard should any of us get hung up with the same situation, although he will have to be able to live not being on the xmas card mailing list of the HOA.

That being said the HOA appears to be a group of eunuchs willing to hide behind arbitrary rules in order to secure their petty positions of authority in order to fulfill their insecure needs at the expense of the rest of the community.

Now on the flip side, look at this from the viewpoint of some destitute divorcee with an ax to grind against some attorney who didn't get her lusts satisfied because her ex only has to pay her 6 figures for doing nothing and gaining 40 pounds until the sun no longer comes up in the morning.

What the divorcee could do is start agitating the dog, drive the poor dog nuts with inaudible whistles, and recorded sounds to anger, and frustrate and cause "fang" to be afraid. Start putting scents of dogs or cats in estrus in places where "fang" is sure to travel, combine a sniff with and inaudible whistle and pretty soon what you have is a neurotic dog who by the way probably isn't getting enough exercise.

What the divorcee needs to do is maybe smear her hoodie with bullion juices and lunge occasionally at the dog until she can get the dog to bite her, just once, one little bite, maybe with pre-arranged scratches on her arm and a witness [maybe in on it] and voila...easy street. As a matter of fact, she doesn't even have to get the dog to bite her, just the rich and powerful attorney, her best BFF, and herself in a hallway and all she has to do is scream, scream in bloody terror and say the sign was only in one language and she can own this SC attorney, from now on. It's like double dipping on alimony. Easy peazy, just sayin.

1. There are no hallways, entrances are outside.
2. The pre-arranged scratches would have DNA in them and it would not be my dog's.
3. Being afraid of a dog in close proximity is not an actionable offense unless she can prove intent on my part to create apprehension of immediate physical bodily harm.
4. It is a hell of a lot harder than people think to "frame" someone - things you would never think of pop up along the way, including trace evidence you have no way of controlling.

Quote: aceofspades

1. There are no hallways, entrances are outside.
2. The pre-arranged scratches would have DNA in them and it would not be my dog's.
3. Being afraid of a dog in close proximity is not an actionable offense unless she can prove intent on my part to create apprehension of immediate physical bodily harm.
4. It is a hell of a lot harder than people think to "frame" someone - things you would never think of pop up along the way, including trace evidence you have no way of controlling.

AOS, don't get me wrong, I love dogs and they love me. I am on your side in about the hoa.

It was in good humor the scenario I invented. Probably couldn't get the dog to bite? Hell, the bitch in the story deserves to get bit. But I have lived next to some real psycho females with motives I couldn't even understand, but I am sure they involved receiving money and or power just for "being" here on earth, for the rest of our visual enjoyment, feeling fully justified in collecting from someone, anyone, for all the wrongs bestowed on her, for life, with bennies, tax free, with cola adjustments in perpetuity.

If a dog bit her it would lick it's ass for 3 days trying to get the taste out of its mouth.

Quote: terapined

Lets take the sign arguement a step further.
Say a neighbor puts up a sign with a giant nazi swastika
Is this ok? The reasoning of the neighbor, its security, nobody wants to mess with a nazi skin head.
The neighbor feels his place is safer with a swastika.

Ace is the laywer here but I am pretty sure a swastika is protected free speech even more clearly than a "beware of dog" sign.

Quote: jml24

Ace is the laywer here but I am pretty sure a swastika is protected free speech even more clearly than a "beware of dog" sign.

Not in a typical HOA. For instance, political campaign mementos and even holiday decorations and signs may be limited to specific dates before and after the given event.

Sorry for my ignorance, but this HOA thing is completely foreign to me. This thread caused me to do some research, and I can't... I just can't. What is this, I don't even.

So... it's kind of like a step between renting and owning? Because you "own" it, but you still have a boss telling you what to do? I mean, I "get" an apartment. It ain't mine, so I have to abide by the rules of he who owns. But if you own it, if you #$%^ing OWN IT, you still made the decision to allow other people to tell you what you can and cannot do with it? You did this, of your own volition? Like, they didn't have a gun on you, or know about that thing with that girl back in 1986?

I understand wanting a sort of board you can go to as it pertains to "shared space". Maybe you have a park or a playground or some other shared type space in your neighborhood, and sure, why not have a community group tend to its needs? But your own GD house?

I just cannot conceive the mentality behind this. And the argument about "property values"? A laugh riot. Here's how things work in reality, where free people reside...

(knock, knock)
Face: Ace, hey bud, sorry to bother you, but I have a request. See, I'm selling my house and it's imperative that it goes. I really need it gone. It's making me a little neurotic, and I hate to be such a bother, but... your sign. I'm worried some pansy is gonna see it and be all worried about your slobber monster. Could I trouble you so much as to take it down, just when I show the house?
Ace: What? C'mon, no problem at all. When they coming?
F: Fri at 2p, should only be about an hour or two. Thanks a ton, I know it's sort of ridiculous, but I don't wanna take a chance. You know how these city types can be.
A: LOL, yup, totally get it. It's no problem, happy to do it.
F: While I got you here, how about this - you know how selling a house can be, I'm gonna have to show it a hundred times probably. Why don't you give me your number, and when I have a showing, I'll just shoot you a text. If you don't mind taking it down for the showings, I'll throw you a cool hundo for the trouble.
A: A hundred bucks? You don't have to...
F: No, I insist. It means a lot to me, and I know it's a pain in the ass with the up and down. So if you'll do it, please allow me to compensate.
A: Cool, man, thanks! And good luck selling that house!

$400 a year in HOA fees x's how many years you live there, or a friendly convo and some gratitude.

Lol. "Property values". I don't care if it's a dog sign or a 1978 El Camino on blocks with half its fluids in the driveway and the tranny hanging from the tree. I've never heard of a more repressive and assbackwards way to deal with something than this HOA nonsense. Different strokes, I guess. Sorry, Ace. At least they'll die before you do =p

$400 a year? LOL. You may want to sit down for this, Face. It's actually closer to 400 per month at a lot of places. This does often cover water, trash, exterior maintenance and a number of other ammenities. About ten tears ago I came home to a sagging ceiling due to a leaking pipe between my ceiling and the upstairs neighbor. I called the HOA and they said it was my responsibility.

2k per acre in Arkansas makes me day dream of an early retirement.

Lol at 4 hundo a year. Most HOA's (highly dependent on whether you're condo, apartment, or houses) are from 3 to 20x that.

People don't join HOA's/buy in them to keep themselves in line on yard trash, Xmas decorations, or the like. They live in HOA's so OTHER people have to comply with their rules. The rules default to the pickiest, nosiest, NIMBY-est members, because they're the ones going to the HOA meetings and voting that crap in.

HOA rules govern where and when people can park, whether they can have their garage doors open, kiddie pools in their back yard, flowers or trees, what color they can paint the house, whether they can have satellite TV, how long their trash cans can be at the curb for pickup, how many cans, what they look like, whether you can have pets, what they can weigh, their breeds, what your age is, whether you can have kids, whether you can have guests, on and on and on, ad nauseum. They can jack your rates, fine you, make extra assessments for things you may not even want, sue you, bleah...can't even finish this list.

Brings out the nastiest in people. Don't ever let yourself get trapped into one.

Quote: Face

Sorry for my ignorance, but this HOA thing is completely foreign to me. This thread caused me to do some research, and I can't... I just can't. What is this, I don't even.

So... it's kind of like a step between renting and owning? Because you "own" it, but you still have a boss telling you what to do? I mean, I "get" an apartment. It ain't mine, so I have to abide by the rules of he who owns. But if you own it, if you #$%^ing OWN IT, you still made the decision to allow other people to tell you what you can and cannot do with it? You did this, of your own volition? Like, they didn't have a gun on you, or know about that thing with that girl back in 1986?

I understand wanting a sort of board you can go to as it pertains to "shared space". Maybe you have a park or a playground or some other shared type space in your neighborhood, and sure, why not have a community group tend to its needs? But your own GD house?

I just cannot conceive the mentality behind this. And the argument about "property values"? A laugh riot. Here's how things work in reality, where free people reside...

(knock, knock)
Face: Ace, hey bud, sorry to bother you, but I have a request. See, I'm selling my house and it's imperative that it goes. I really need it gone. It's making me a little neurotic, and I hate to be such a bother, but... your sign. I'm worried some pansy is gonna see it and be all worried about your slobber monster. Could I trouble you so much as to take it down, just when I show the house?
Ace: What? C'mon, no problem at all. When they coming?
F: Fri at 2p, should only be about an hour or two. Thanks a ton, I know it's sort of ridiculous, but I don't wanna take a chance. You know how these city types can be.
A: LOL, yup, totally get it. It's no problem, happy to do it.
F: While I got you here, how about this - you know how selling a house can be, I'm gonna have to show it a hundred times probably. Why don't you give me your number, and when I have a showing, I'll just shoot you a text. If you don't mind taking it down for the showings, I'll throw you a cool hundo for the trouble.
A: A hundred bucks? You don't have to...
F: No, I insist. It means a lot to me, and I know it's a pain in the ass with the up and down. So if you'll do it, please allow me to compensate.
A: Cool, man, thanks! And good luck selling that house!

$400 a year in HOA fees x's how many years you live there, or a friendly convo and some gratitude.

Lol. "Property values". I don't care if it's a dog sign or a 1978 El Camino on blocks with half its fluids in the driveway and the tranny hanging from the tree. I've never heard of a more repressive and assbackwards way to deal with something than this HOA nonsense. Different strokes, I guess. Sorry, Ace. At least they'll die before you do =p

The purpose of HOA's at their core is for people who wish to make sure the residents of their neighborhood don't let their house fall into disrepair. That they mow their lawns, that they fix any external problems with their property in a timely manner so to facilitate not allow a property to become an eyesore and diminish property values. if they would leave it at that, it would be fine IMO. However, most of these places limit the amount of decorations you may put up at Christmas or any other holiday or limit signage or yard decorations (I understand not wanting a 1986 Buick Regal up on blocks in the front yard but not a statue or garden gnome) or stuff like how far in front of the sidewalk one must park or what size pet you are allowed. These rules take it too far. Most of the people that head up these HOAs are elected from within the community and tend to be retired people who tend to have nothing better to do but stick their noses into the lives of every single one of the residents.

Quote: Face

Sorry for my ignorance, but this HOA thing is completely foreign to me. This thread caused me to do some research, and I can't... I just can't. What is this, I don't even.

So... it's kind of like a step between renting and owning? Because you "own" it, but you still have a boss telling you what to do? I mean, I "get" an apartment. It ain't mine, so I have to abide by the rules of he who owns. But if you own it, if you #$%^ing OWN IT, you still made the decision to allow other people to tell you what you can and cannot do with it? You did this, of your own volition? Like, they didn't have a gun on you, or know about that thing with that girl back in 1986?

I understand wanting a sort of board you can go to as it pertains to "shared space". Maybe you have a park or a playground or some other shared type space in your neighborhood, and sure, why not have a community group tend to its needs? But your own GD house?

I just cannot conceive the mentality behind this. And the argument about "property values"? A laugh riot. Here's how things work in reality, where free people reside...

(knock, knock)
Face: Ace, hey bud, sorry to bother you, but I have a request. See, I'm selling my house and it's imperative that it goes. I really need it gone. It's making me a little neurotic, and I hate to be such a bother, but... your sign. I'm worried some pansy is gonna see it and be all worried about your slobber monster. Could I trouble you so much as to take it down, just when I show the house?
Ace: What? C'mon, no problem at all. When they coming?
F: Fri at 2p, should only be about an hour or two. Thanks a ton, I know it's sort of ridiculous, but I don't wanna take a chance. You know how these city types can be.
A: LOL, yup, totally get it. It's no problem, happy to do it.
F: While I got you here, how about this - you know how selling a house can be, I'm gonna have to show it a hundred times probably. Why don't you give me your number, and when I have a showing, I'll just shoot you a text. If you don't mind taking it down for the showings, I'll throw you a cool hundo for the trouble.
A: A hundred bucks? You don't have to...
F: No, I insist. It means a lot to me, and I know it's a pain in the ass with the up and down. So if you'll do it, please allow me to compensate.
A: Cool, man, thanks! And good luck selling that house!

$400 a year in HOA fees x's how many years you live there, or a friendly convo and some gratitude.

Lol. "Property values". I don't care if it's a dog sign or a 1978 El Camino on blocks with half its fluids in the driveway and the tranny hanging from the tree. I've never heard of a more repressive and assbackwards way to deal with something than this HOA nonsense. Different strokes, I guess. Sorry, Ace. At least they'll die before you do =p

Yeah the HOA should control the common areas, which is fine...unfortunately, anything beyond your windows and front door are common areas -- for example, I can take a lounge chair, throw on a speed-o and suntan myself on any grassy area - regardless of whose condo/townhome it is in front of - come to think of it---maybe that might be a good idea

The HOA Board does nothing productive...the security company that drives around at night is owned by the Board president's cousin...the official towing company (based on my research) is connected to another board member -- this is what happens when reality tv ruins your life, you get stuck downsizing into a condo community

Quote: RogerKint

$400 a year? LOL. You may want to sit down for this, Face. It's actually closer to 400 per month at a lot of places. This does often cover water, trash, exterior maintenance and a number of other ammenities. About ten tears ago I came home to a sagging ceiling due to a leaking pipe between my ceiling and the upstairs neighbor. I called the HOA and they said it was my responsibility.

2k per acre in Arkansas makes me day dream of an early retirement.

I literally have tears in my eyes. No joke. That $400 is just what I saw in my brief research.

Of course, it's not as bad if it includes the "amenities" you speak of. I mean, I have to pay for water and trash, too, so the money's coming out one way or the other. But I pay the town clerk, and she don't say #$%^ all to me.

OMG, I'm still laughing. I go out to tune my car, and when it goes BRAPRAPAPAPAP! through no exhaust suppression and I go "VTEC just kicked in, yo!", maybe a neighbor will come over to see how the build is going, or their kid will come over to watch and I'll put them in the seat for a picture. And I got a bunch of cut logs curing on the side yard to make a table out of, and my boat is on the porch and the trailer is in the back yard cuz it's too big to go anywhere else. And if they asked to move it for whatever reason, I'd go do it right now. If they demanded it, I'd have to change my pants, because I would totally #$%^ them on the spot.

Quote: aceofspades

Yeah the HOA should control the common areas, which is fine...unfortunately, anything beyond your windows and front door are common areas -- for example, I can take a lounge chair, throw on a speed-o and suntan myself on any grassy area - regardless of whose condo/townhome it is in front of - come to think of it---maybe that might be a good idea

I swear, on my life and on my honor, that I almost suggested you do this very thing, but then decided to keep quiet and not be silly XD Now I almost wish I was in an HOA. There is no limit on how far I would #$%^ with someone who #$%^ed with me in this manner.

DO IT, ACE! XD

Quote: Face

Sorry for my ignorance, but this HOA thing is completely foreign to me. This thread caused me to do some research, and I can't... I just can't. What is this, I don't even.

So... it's kind of like a step between renting and owning? Because you "own" it, but you still have a boss telling you what to do? I mean, I "get" an apartment. It ain't mine, so I have to abide by the rules of he who owns. But if you own it, if you #$%^ing OWN IT, you still made the decision to allow other people to tell you what you can and cannot do with it? You did this, of your own volition? Like, they didn't have a gun on you, or know about that thing with that girl back in 1986?

There are two kinds of HOA's. One is condo/townhome where your property is physically attached to other units. In this situation you own your own unit and some fractional part of all of the common areas. Said fractional part is not dividable, meaning I cannot get people to keep selling them to me and eventually own them all. The other kind is where you buy your property under a "restrictive deed" that states the HOA governs certain rules. I have seen restrictive deeds that limit how small or cheap of a house you may build, that you cannot put up a business (often a gas station or slaughterhouse, don't ask me why) and once even that you could not sell the property to any non-caucasian person.

When you get a deed restricted under an HOA it allows for restricting things even further.

One thing about HOA fees in Condos/Townhomes is the one thing you get for your money is fire insurance. If you live in one your fees cover that, but you need personal coverage which is called "homeowners" but is glorified renter's insurance. This used to drive me crazy when I was in mortgage work because no matter how many times we told the salesforce the difference we always got the "contents" policy, which was useless to us. Often the owners didn't even know how to call the HOA to get the policy.

Then three are the HOA management companies, who make a business out of this kind of thing. They charge a fee for providing said policies, managing the contractors, and anything else. Oh, and they love putting liens on homeowners who miss fees and seizing their units. One old woman was booted because she didn't know to pay after her husband died. Sheriff said there was nothing he could do. One must wonder whatever happened to a friendly knock on the door?

Something people do not realize is that they can personally be on the hook for HOA debts. HOA stiffs a contractor? You could end up with a lien on your place. HOA votes to do some capital improvements? Cough up the extra fees. Of course there may be limits to what they can do or spend. Or not.

Quote:

Lol. "Property values". I don't care if it's a dog sign or a 1978 El Camino on blocks with half its fluids in the driveway and the tranny hanging from the tree. I've never heard of a more repressive and assbackwards way to deal with something than this HOA nonsense. Different strokes, I guess. Sorry, Ace. At least they'll die before you do =p

A podcast I listen to sums it up exactly right. HOAs are for people who do not have enough laws at the federal, state, and local level to obey. So they ask for even more.

When my wife's health problems started a few years ago I thought that we might be better off renting our house out and buying a townhome. It would be easier to keep up for me while working my fulltime job and taking care of her.

We looked at some really nice ones and some of them seemed like good bargains. Unfortunately, you can't find a condo or townhome that doesn't come with a HOA attached. I rented a place years ago that had a HOA and I swore, never again.

30 years earlier I rented this place. They had trees that leaked some kind of sap on my new truck that wouldn't wash off. And we had assigned parking so I couldn't park anywhere else. I told my neighbor that I was going to trim them back and he suggested that I contact the HOA first since they would probably fine me for doing that. So I did as he suggested. What a mess. It took weeks and a threat of a lawsuit to have them repaint my truck to get permission to trim them. Then the President (or whoever the head honcho is) Had to be there to oversee my trimming to make sure I didn't cut more than needed. That was my one and only experience with a HOA.

Quote: beachbumbabs

HOA rules govern where and when people can park, whether they can have their garage doors open, kiddie pools in their back yard, flowers or trees, what color they can paint the house, whether they can have satellite TV, how long their trash cans can be at the curb for pickup, how many cans, what they look like, whether you can have pets, what they can weigh, their breeds, what your age is, whether you can have kids, whether you can have guests, on and on and on, ad nauseum. They can jack your rates, fine you, make extra assessments for things you may not even want, sue you, bleah...can't even finish this list.

This is actually against the law - as long as the dish's diameter is 1 meter or less, an HOA has no say over whether or not you can put one up without its permission.

That is, if you're in a house. If it's a townhouse/condo, then it's possible that the HOA can set a restriction as technically you don't own either your roof or your outside balcony.

Quote: ThatDonGuy

Quote: beachbumbabs

HOA rules govern where and when people can park, whether they can have their garage doors open, kiddie pools in their back yard, flowers or trees, what color they can paint the house, whether they can have satellite TV, how long their trash cans can be at the curb for pickup, how many cans, what they look like, whether you can have pets, what they can weigh, their breeds, what your age is, whether you can have kids, whether you can have guests, on and on and on, ad nauseum. They can jack your rates, fine you, make extra assessments for things you may not even want, sue you, bleah...can't even finish this list.

This is actually against the law - as long as the dish's diameter is 1 meter or less, an HOA has no say over whether or not you can put one up without its permission.

That is, if you're in a house. If it's a townhouse/condo, then it's possible that the HOA can set a restriction as technically you don't own either your roof or your outside balcony.

Yeah, I wasn't restricting my examples to which kind of HOA. I've lived in 1 condo HOA and 2 homeowner's (houses) in the past; these were examples from my or neighbors' experiences.

Realtors will provide non-HOA homes if you ask. Or you can do it yourself.

Quote: aceofspades

The HOA Board does nothing productive...the security company that drives around at night is owned by the Board president's cousin...the official towing company (based on my research) is connected to another board member -- this is what happens when reality tv ruins your life, you get stuck downsizing into a condo community

Keee-hrist, man. You know, people get divorced all over the country. Unmarried, no kids... I could find you a nice house here for like $70k. Or a legit mansion for under $200k. Fresh air, corn fed women, small town livin'. And ain't no one gonna tell you what to do. Ever. Might just be the cure for what ails ya ;)

I know I saw my own family court lawyer like three times and already burned through over $2k. I dunno how that compares to your own rates, but I know a dollar would go a hell of a lot farther here. Just ask SOOPOO. You could live like a king.

Go west, young man =)